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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 29 2014 : 10:43:48 PM
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I'm not much of a tantra guy. Some time back, I found I was able to naturally do vajroli mudra, but I eventually lost the ability.
Now I find I am no longer ejaculating upon orgasm. It doesn't feel like vajroli this time, because there's no "uplifting" sensation whatsoever. Perhaps it's just that the upward stream is just fully baked in, but the evidence against that theory is that the semen does expel upon subsequent urination. So it seems to be pooling downward rather than streaming upward!
I'm trying to decide whether I've reached a "new normal" level of vajroli mudra, or if I simply have plumbing issues. Any opinions out there? |
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2014 : 11:32:13 PM
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quote:
I'm trying to decide whether I've reached a "new normal" level of vajroli mudra, or if I simply have plumbing issues. Any opinions out there?
Could go either way. You seem to be naturally blocking (diverting) the semen into the bladder. Are you on any prescriptions from your recent heart issue? If so, the lack of sensation might be related. Any 'damage' to the perineum recently? (Bike riding? Enthusiastic siddahasana?  ). Assuming everything else seems normal and you are not in discomfort, most likely you can observe the issue a while. The safest course would be to discuss this with a urologist. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Sep 29 2014 11:55:11 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2014 : 12:45:10 AM
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Dogboy, thanks for the reply. Let me just clarify on "upward sensation". When I was able, in the past, to voluntarily do vajroli, it was accompanied by a sensation of "sucking up", into the body and up the spine, rather than the usual "shooting forth". I'm not having that sensation now. However, that might just be because I've so accustomed to a natural ecstatic upward flow that it's no longer noticeable.
I have no injuries, and the issue predates by several months my recent heart craziness.
I've considered visiting a urologist, but I certainly couldn't discuss vajroli, ecstatic conductivity, etc etc., so I'd need to go in with a blunt complaint.....and I know (from quick googling) that this isn't a common symptom, so the doc would probably need to go on a fishing trip. And I'm not a fan of doctors on fishing trips.
I guess my central question is this: is it (automatic) vajroli if semen diverts to bladder? I'm hoping some of the old tantra practitioners might have insight. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2014 : 02:14:36 AM
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i nominate Yogani to answer this question!
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Christi
United Kingdom
4373 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2014 : 03:24:40 AM
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Hi Jim,
Yes, when automatic (natural) vajroli is happening the semen can automatically divert into the bladder upon ejaculation. This can also happen before natural vajroli is happening. Semen is then expelled with urination. With natural vajroli there will be a continuous drawing up of semen into the bladder. Gradually as the process expands upwards, the sexual fluids in the bladder will be transformed into an etheric substance (soma) which will rise upwards through the body and eventually end up in the head as amrita. When this is happening semen is no longer expelled with urination.
The stage during the production of soma can feel a bit weird at first. There are a lot of strange sensations in the belly, a lot of air moving around, the sensation as if the stomach is "churning". A strange minty sensation is sometimes felt. Then that starts to settle down as the production of amrita begins in the higher centres.
Christi
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2014 : 11:37:28 AM
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Hi Jim:
I concur with Christi's assessment, but would add that external ejaculation should also be an option for advanced yogi's, and perhaps the pendulum will swing back to the center for you over time. This is obviously important if you are in a relationship and wish to have children. This is touched on in Lesson T77:
quote:
For both women and men, there should be no undue concern about yoga causing us to lose our ability to have children. We have always talked about yoga and tantra cultivating an expansion of sexual function to also encompass human spiritual transformation. This does not limit our ability to have children, if it is our desire to do so. Indeed, many advanced practitioners are having children these days, which is a blessing for all of us. When the spiritual machinery is activated, the reproductive machinery does not become obsolete. Life continues in all of its aspects, with the main difference being an unending presence of joy and outpouring divine love.
This has been my experience, and of others I have been in touch with over the years. If having children is not a concern there, then maybe see how it develops. Of course, if there is a medical concern, it will be best to see a physician, though I can sympathize with your doubts about being able to discuss vajroli with one, and the hazards of medical "fishing trips." On the other hand, modern medicine can do wonders when life-threatening situations can be diagnosed, as your recent experience with your heart demonstrates. Was very happy to hear you came through that alright.
The real question is whether your current experience is vajroli or a plumbing problem. Are you noticing any other symptoms that might be related? Urination problems, enlarged prostate, etc?
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Regarding the upward ecstatic flow, there can be plateaus in that like any other aspect of yoga. You could be plateaued between natural physical vajroli without much contrasting upward ecstatic flow (most semen remaining in the urine) and physical vajroli with ongoing upward ecstatic flow (most semen being absorbed up through the neurobiology with little expelled in urine after half an hour or so). With a continuation of your practices, and keeping active in-between, you will inevitably move beyond any plateau. However, this would not mean a permanent loss of ability to ejaculate externally. Unless it does, of course. Yogis and yoginis come in all flavors, and there are those who would just as soon move beyond external sexual function entirely. They may be found in ashrams and other cloistered environments, often with vows of celibacy. That doesn't sound like you, at least not so far.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2014 : 6:43:21 PM
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Thanks, Yogani and Christy
Yogani, no other symptoms. And procreation isn't a serious aim (in fact, non-procreation remains the stronger concern!).
I've had plenty of amrita, conductivity, flow, etc., for the better part of a decade. So that horse has already run.
In my previous experience of vajroli mudra (maybe 7 years ago?), it felt intentional (and optional!). It felt a lot more integrated with full body and the flow of amrit. There was no doubt that it was yogic rather than medical, because it was controllable and felt "linked in" to the rest of my practice.
I didn't really work on it or practice it, and eventually lost the ability. No biggie, since it wasn't something I was really "working" on, anyway. Then this started happening a few months ago. It's neither intentional nor optional, does not feel linked into the amrit process or full body conductivity (both of which continue nicely).
If lodging in bladder is a PRECURSOR to establishing conductivity/flow/amrita, then this is medical, because in terms of yoga practice, I passed that point years ago. Though OTOH I'm also quite aware that yoga can sometimes be three steps forward and two back.
If someone's voice drops and he's 13, you recognize puberty. If a shaggy 50 year old's voice drops, I suppose it's likely time to visit the doctor.... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Sep 30 2014 7:21:10 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2014 : 1:21:23 PM
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| You made a good point about Fishing Doctors, Jim. This doesn't seem to have the same urgency as the heart issue, or say, pissing blood rather than sperm. You can most likely afford to observe this to see where it leads, just saying. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4373 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2014 : 2:38:09 PM
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Hi Jim,
I can concur with Yogani. 
It is not a phase which lasts forever, unless you want it to be. I chose for it not to be which is why I have two very lovely daughters.
And yes, yoga is very much about 3 steps forwards and 2 backwards, so there is never really a point where we can say "been there, done that" about any aspect of the path. Things keep changing, and that is about the only constant!
Christi |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2014 : 7:15:57 PM
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It turns out that this is a known thing, called "retrograde ejaculation". It's caused by a malfunctioning bladder sphincter, resulting from drug side effect, illness, spinal cord injury, or else a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system (which would appear to be my situation).
See further info on Wikipedia.
How this may be related to my lifetime of yoga practices is, of course, completely unknown. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2014 : 07:35:32 AM
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Hi Jim & K
"Dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system" is vary vague (this where wikipedia falls a little short). A systemic neurological problem would bring about a complex of symptoms, nor just retrograde ejaculation. Even if the dysfunction in question was about a local nerve being compressed or overstretched (the pudendal nerve is the one candidate here), then again it's unlikely you would have just this one symptom. Nerves are made of multiple fibres, responsible for carrying impulses to/from several organs. Either way, it's likely you would see a complex of symptoms if the neurological explanation was correct. |
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Vimala
France
80 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2014 : 12:38:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
It turns out that this is a known thing, called "retrograde ejaculation". It's caused by a malfunctioning bladder sphincter, resulting from drug side effect, illness, spinal cord injury, or else a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system (which would appear to be my situation).
See further info on Wikipedia.
How this may be related to my lifetime of yoga practices is, of course, completely unknown.
No exactly unknown, in my opinion.
The effect is simple:
when you meditate, your sexual energy travels your nervous system upward...
...but when you end your meditation session and return to ordinary life, there's no longer the mental force that guides your energy upward... and it falls to its base: the seminal vesicles.
Your vesicles release the extra energy that doesn't flow upward into your bladder.
This is the in-famous "kundalini falling".
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2014 : 1:37:27 PM
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Thanks, BlueRaincoat. There may be a constellation of neuro symptoms that have oh-so-gradually appeared, and which have become my new normal, so to speak. Under the cover of yoga sadhana, I could imagine strange stuff evading notice. Alternatively, it may be that sadhana itself (or perhaps sadhana wrongly done) has played a part, or the entire part. As you likely know, one's autonomic nervous system is never quite the same after extended practices. I haven't explored this very far (and I will go to a urologist) but I'm starting to get the feeling that this is one of those situations where medical science shrugs helplessly....and that's always been my signal for concluding that it's a "yoga thing", and not to be overly concerned.
Vimala, thanks, and I agree. However, I've been as upward-flowing as ever (i.e. lots) during the period this has been occurring....and I've also taken an unprecedented 3 weeks off (which simmered things down considerably). Over that range, the symptoms haven't ever changed a bit. Rock solid (sort of like the sensation in my chest that turned out to be a bona fide heart attack).
Yes, I realize I'm contradicting myself. But sometimes that's how it works when you're trying to figure stuff out. Toleration of paradox is a helpful skill! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Nov 02 2014 1:42:15 PM |
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Automatic Vajroli.....or Physical Problem?
