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Albert V
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 17 2014 : 11:59:28 AM
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Greetings. I have a simple question regarding the position of the tongue with Kechari during Yoni mudra kumbhaka (and jalandhara). The question, is the tongue positioned on the roof of the mouth only during breath retention/kumbhaka, or do should I also maintain the tongue in the Kechari position during inhale and exhale during while performing either of these two mudras. Sorry of this is in the lessons and I missed it. I have been doing these mudras but only keeping the tongue raised during the breath retention phase
Thanks,
Albert |
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Anibaru
Chile
72 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2014 : 11:31:45 AM
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At least from a Kriya Yoga standpoint you should try keep the kechari position at all times while doing other mudras.
Probable applies the same to AYP, with the obvious "don't force things up and self pacing"
At least for me i've been playing with kechari for just one month and can't hold it for longer than two spinal breaths. |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2014 : 12:26:01 PM
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What you are doing is great! Gradually, start to extend the practice of kechari to the other phases of the breathing. If it feels uncomfortable, back off and try it again another day. It feels like the tongue needs time to "learn" this position. After a while, it becomes a second nature. You can hold it during jalandhara, and yoni mudra. Just make sure you do not force things. The more you force, the more resistance you encounter. After a while, the tongue "wants" to go back during the meditation. I found out that it even rolls back in my sleep - and it does not bother me. Also, the spot between the hard and the soft palate is very sensitive - you get a taste of kechari 2 when you press there.
There are people who keep the kechari mudra for good parts of the day, while they go on with their regular life. You just have to get used with so much bliss! Yogani's lesson 108 is a great guide to kechari. Since I started working at kechari, I have read this lesson again and again, and every time I have learnt a new thing!...
Thank you everyone for keeping up the practice! Your practice makes my practice better!  |
Edited by - Blanche on Aug 31 2014 07:37:17 AM |
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Albert V
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2014 : 11:17:23 AM
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Thank you both for your responses. So it seems that ideally, when one is very advanced, that the tongue would be pointed up and in one of the Kechari positions during all forms of Prananyama and even mediation! I guess as Blanche wrote, "After a while it becomes second nature". That could be a long while for myself, perhaps in my next life.  But as Yongani mentions in his books, there is that clumsy, clunky stage that needs to refine for most new stages of progress.
It would seem to me that it would be tricky doing even stage 2 (which I have not mastered) doing Brastika - which I do for 2 minutes after Jalandhara or Yoni.
Although at my current stage (8 months of twice daily practice) that managing the tongue when not doing breath retention is to difficult to manage at least I have a goal to work towards. That seemed impractical but that is why I asked the question since it was not clear as I read the lessons (I have both the Easy Lessons book and most of the smaller 100 page books). Hopefully down the road it will happen - at least faster that trying to put my heal under the perineum which I fear this 56 year old body I am using might never get that flexible  |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2014 : 11:33:38 AM
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| I've noticed that slight kechari just happens spontaneously for me when I am "in the zone", particularly during spinal breathing (with sambhavi mudra and mula bandha engaged). Referring to the simple tongue to mouth roof position, nothing advanced like stage 2-3. The tongue just naturally falls and folds back. I never once had to try or practice. |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 08:38:37 AM
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Wow, Albert, you got to this stage in only 8 months! This is light-speed progress. You will get to Kechari in this life. Some people take 2 months, some take 20 years. Just keep doing what you are doing. It will happen. I went thought various experiences with kechari - the gagging stage, the accumulation of saliva in the mouth, and too intense experience, etc. We all deal with issues. They all pass. You are doing one of the most important things: You practice daily! It makes all the difference. I hear from some people that they do not have time to practice. But if God cannot get a 2 minute appointment from us in a day, who can?
As about the Siddhasana (the sitting on the heal), practicing Mahamudra at least a couple of times on each side before each sitting should help loosen the hip and knee joints. Mahamudra also stretches the back, keeps the spinal cord flexible - and stretches the susumna, ida and pingala, the subtle nadis of energy.  See 4a in the asana program:
http://www.aypsite.org/asana.html
Yogaman, what a wonderful experience you have with kechari!
Thank you everyone for practicing! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 12:22:38 PM
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| To be honest, if I wasn't aware of kechari, I wouldn't have known I was even doing it. |
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Albert V
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2014 : 12:37:04 PM
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Yogaman,
I do get just a slight natural inclination, some of the time, for Kechari when doing breath retention. I would expect, or at least hope, that to become more natural over time. |
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Albert V
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2014 : 1:06:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
Wow, Albert, you got to this stage in only 8 months! This is light-speed progress. You will get to Kechari in this life. Some people take 2 months, some take 20 years. Just keep doing what you are doing.
As about the Siddhasana (the sitting on the heal), practicing Mahamudra at least a couple of times on each side before each sitting should help loosen the hip and knee joints. Mahamudra also stretches the back, keeps the spinal cord flexible - and stretches the susumna, ida and pingala, the subtle nadis of energy. See 4a in the asana program:
http://www.aypsite.org/asana.html
Thank you everyone for practicing!
Blanche,
You the old saying, Practice makes perfect I really began to dabble in this about a year ago after purchasing Yogani's Meditation book last August and then this Pranayama book in September. But it wasn't until the first of this year that I made a commitment to do it by making it a regular habit. I then re-read both books and began my journey. I have read about 5 or 6 of the little books, and also working through Volume 1 of his Easy Lessons book with plans to read all his books.
I add a little ever month or so and as I approach my 9th month of practice the times increase to over an hour twice daily.
Asana: 10+ minutes
SB: 10 min
Chin Pump: 5 min
Brastika: 2 min
DM: 20 min
Samyama: 10 min
Yoni: 4-5 min
Rest: 10 min
I do the above 2x daily on empty stomach and also before bed I do 3-5 min SBP, 5-10min DM, then get into bed and do Cosmic Samyama. Plus about Amaroli ~ 3 ounces with water upon awakening.
As for sitting with legs crossed I can only do 10 - 15minutes so by the time I get to DM I must move to a chair. I hope to increase those times over time.
I would not say I am advanced as I cannot visualize the spinal tube or my breath going straight up or down but it is getting slowly better.
I do have some tangible results in feeling my body filled with some type of energy which mostly end in my fingers. Actually, there were stages when then my fingers would fill with energy during practice, sometimes a lot. My fingers would feel like they were being pumped up, at first I called them 'finger hard-ons' for lack of a better word but that description seemed perfect. Fingers will fill up with energy and push out and up so my hands are often supported by my wrists, the finger end points up. On occasion during pranayama the energy gets so strongly that my hands vibrate but this is easily adjusted with a hand mudra - where I feel the energy flowing out my fingertips. I is a little less recently, possibly due to clearing more out of the nervous system.
During the day, if I relax and do Sambhavi, energy runs down my arms and inflates them so my arms begin to float up to an almost horizontal position. I am not trying to be rude when I say this is like 'arm hard ons' as energy, instead of blood, fills my limbs. This and the slight vibratory energy that is often present at my fingertips is probably my best personal benchmark for progress. Kundalini has not risen up but energy seems to be permeating out. |
Edited by - Albert V on Aug 31 2014 11:52:42 AM |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2014 : 08:29:01 AM
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Hi Albert,
Practice makes perfect! You do have a full program of powerful techniques, and things are progressing, even if you do not perceive much difference. As a result of the practices, the senses change, they "bake" and become atuned to these inner worlds. Gradually, you will be able to sense better what is happening.
The energy you feel in your fingers and arms is impressive. Usually the energy, even when strong, feels smooth, clear, luminous. It is a good idea to self-pace our practices and lifestyle, otherwise we will have to slow down to deal with energy overload. You might want to slow down your practice for a couple of days to see if your feel a difference in your fingers and hands during practice. You do not want to have a build-up of energy to the point where you have to seriously slow down or stop the practice. Yoga is like learning to play the violin. The successful musician is not the one who engages in long intensive practice for some weeks or months, but the one who has a mindful daily practice for years.
Enjoy your path! |
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Kechari and tongue position during breathing.
