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andrew75
26 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 26 2014 : 4:07:15 PM
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In case anyone knowledgeable enough reads this thread, I would like to know the answer to the following scenario:
Before incarnation takes place, a soul X decides to take a certain amount of karma, say M, from soul Y. Therefore, in the incarnation that is about to begin, soul X agrees to endure the amount of karma M that belongs to soul Y. The said incarnation begins and soul X starts to endure the amount of karma M. However, during this incarnation soul X, after enduring say M/4 of Y’s karma, suddenly dies. Therefore, in that particular incarnation soul X endured only one quarter of the amount of karma that he/she agreed to take from Y.
On that account, does anyone know what would happen to the remaining amount of karma, which is 3M/4, which remained unexhausted in the physical plane? Would the unexhausted amount of karma be returned to soul Y, or would it be given to soul X in a future incarnation, since soul X agreed to endure the whole amount, M, in the first place?
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Edited by - andrew75 on Jul 26 2014 4:14:18 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2014 : 01:09:44 AM
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I have learned that no one can ever work out somebody else karma. A master can displace that karma and give you a "breather" if you are unable to cope right now but eventually you will have to work it out for yourself. I have no experience of such and cannot say for real.
Sey |
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Vivekv
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2014 : 1:55:29 PM
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The rest of it stays with soul X . A quick primer from my hindu upbringing - Hopefully you would be able to relate to this. it is believed that Vishnu (a god in hindu way of life) took the karma from a devotee of his that he would never have peace and keeps roaming around all the time and can never stay at one place. The common belief is that he is still enduring it by coming as Rama , narasimha , krishna , dattatreya etc.
Once karma is exchanges it is a done deal - Only if X finds another Z who is willing to take some of it off his shoulders.
To SeySorciere --
I am sorry but it can be taken by others and has to be worked out by whoever takes it over. There are innumerable cases of the karma transfer by spiritual gurus etc.
Why talk about spiritual guru - I would challenge you to try a small experiment - take a friend or relative of yours who is going through a trouble of some sort and try to affirm strongly during samyama about the transference from them to you and i would bet a 100 bucks you would get the transference within a few weeks to a few months.
So the thing here is, you have be extremely careful about affirmations and this transference business because it like a doctor treating and handling biohazard material.
I can personally vouch that such transferences have occurred when i tried to do mantra chanting / affirmations for someone's relationships or money issues and have since refrained from it.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2014 : 01:15:31 AM
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Dear Vivekv,
I really don't know much about karmic laws work, but I remember asking more or less the same question as Andrew last year, and a Raja Yoga teacher told me it can only be displaced. But yes, I too have read of Masters taking on the karma of their disciples. Is it true? No idea. Jesus is reputed to have tried to take the whole world's Karma - did he succeed? Clearly not.
I have tried experimenting (but very sincerely) with taking on others karma. But no, it did not work out for me. But hey.. .. I'm no master
Sey
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Vivekv
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2014 : 09:33:17 AM
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Hey Sey,
". Jesus is reputed to have tried to take the whole world's Karma - did he succeed? Clearly not."
just on the above - I don't want to get a flame from anyone and in the process attract negative energy. But on the note yes Jesus did take on some karma - what quantity and how much is not exactly quantified. Now on the point did he succeed ? yeah to the extent he took. But the problem here you are wondering if that is the case why is it that the whole world is full of chaos ?
There is a very simple answer to that - when karma is eradicated - you are wiping the slate clean to the point of time - not a future fool proof cleansing. For example say you are cleaning your house - Now your house is clean. Does that mean no dust is going to settle down on your floor and you dont have to vacuum and clean the house forever as it has been cleaned now and looks good. Not really your actions - cooking in kitchen - creates organic waste and the trash gets full. You use your living room and walk around dust settles on your carpet and slowly it gets dirty and needs cleansing again periodically. Accumulation and cleansing of karma is direct product just like that. You can never ever insulate yourself from performing karma in your daily life. Whether it is good - leads to good material benefits or Bad - leads to misery , or akarma - this one is done without expectation of the fruits of actions - leading to divine souls coming to you to help you. It is inevitable.
Now the second most important thing about the karmic evolution is the fact that life evolves - from inert matter to intelligent beings. Life starts from solid - rocks and on application of strong forces like physical or chemical or heat the life leaves it and migrates another rock or if the soul yearns to stand erect or its desire it moves to more intelligent beings like plants and trees. The plant or trees when dying based on its desire and karma earned moves to more intelligent beings like insects and animals, fish . they upon dying and attaining further karma and intelligence evolve to higher being like humans and humans upon further evolution move to the higher realms of light and then on higher evolution reach an even higher state. So as these are happening there is no end to life and evolution.
(A rock earns good karma providing shelter and housing to animals and beings etc , A plant by providing shade and housing to other beings and many more etc etc)
So what is the connection I am trying to draw out from this example and explanation - yes when takes on the karma yes they can and suffer it out but it is not to stop the donor of karma from doing any nonsense down the lane. So all the sludge cleaned can be accumulated as easily. Easy come - easy go.
Also cleaning happens at point of time to a subset of followers and so forth. Life itself is a constant karma exchange no way out of it. It is the sum balance at the end that matters.
I wish i could draw out more examples - but just wanted to keep it to a minimum to minimize the negative attention I may draw out with all these.
Infact every accomplished master is bearing the karma of his followers, Yogananda went through it to enable his initiates to feel teh vibrations ( ref.I became my heart ) (And i would strongly say that not everyone who teaches does that. - very few and accomplished ones do that - just not to send anyone reading this to go on a karma easter egg hunt.) Shirdi Sai baba went through it , Sathya sai baba did it , Krishna went through it , Jesus did , but one thing though Sey they never take everything from a devotee - Like say they only void certain things which will prove most dangerous to devotee - like a life threat , near death - intense monetary issues but not everything. Say a guy has a near death scenario and also has in his karmic bank a bad personal relationship to go through , his near death scenario may be nullified or reduced by his master but he is allowed to go through the painful personal experience - which in his master's opinion is not a big deal and that it might teach his follower to look more inward.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2014 : 03:57:23 AM
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Dear Vivekv,
Sorry for the long delay in responding. Somehow, I missed your interesting explanation on Karma. I must say it is all very complicated and not really verifiable - we have to take it on faith that the karma was worked out by the Master.
I was baptized in the Catholic church in the name of Jesus. That would seem to indicate that at that point in time, my slate was wiped clean - of the original sin, which to me, would represent past life karma. So, I should now be working with just the karma I am presently creating in this life, right? Yet, I get the impression that all lot of the stuff coming up (some bad stuff and some totally awesome stuff) must be because of my past life - like AYP /Kriya - whenever I think of my extraordinary good luck, I want to sing "Somewhere in my youth or childhood, I must have done something good" or more appropriately somewhere in a past life(s)
Thank you for sharing your perspective on it
Sey |
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alecpeace
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2015 : 10:04:19 AM
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Hi andrew75,
You can't "take" somebody's karma, since it can't be given. It's not like an arm where you can donate it, lol. Karma is a part of your soul structure/energetic makeup and it's just a part of who you are.
You can only accumulate karma based on your own actions to yourself and to others. In that regard, a pre-birth agreement is made with the other entity to help each other clear out karmic debts. But a karmic debt, doesn't HAVE TO be cleared out with the other entity with whom the karmic debt originated, it can be cleared out with another entity so long as there is agreement and is in the best interest of both beings. The debt isn't to the other entity, it's to yourself. You are the originator and holder of your own karma, but it may require assistance to clear it out. |
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Taking Another's Karma
