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ak33

Canada
229 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2014 :  2:11:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman

Yoga Recap 2014-11-09
One insight I've had regarding sits (and other habits in general) is how often I'm not so motivated to sit, but once I do I find myself quickly getting into the mood, and then I do not want to stop! It made me realize that the mind is an inertia machine — it prefers to keep doing whatever it is it is currently doing. Helpful or detrimental, it doesn't seem to care or recognize the difference. The mind just prefers to keep doing what it is doing right now. The insight here is to just commit to getting started, and putting 5 minutes/reps/sentences/notes/brushstrokes/etc into action.

You don't need much time to shift the mind over to the next thing it will get attached to, but the shift is where the struggle happens. It's as if we have this impetuous child within, as if we do not evolve our personas but rather accumulate upon an ancient core that cannot be matured, evolved, ignored or reasoned with. We just need to understand how it functions, and find ways to work with it. The real key here is that it will never "go away". We will never "get past" these struggles. Once we learn to accept and work constructively with these ground rules in mind, the easier it is to get past them.

It's easy to think to yourself "I am lazy"and explain these behaviors away. But I don't think there is any "I am" in these behaviors. I think these are artifacts of the structure of mind/brain/body. Once we realize these are impersonal, external to the self, and permanent functional "hard wired" aspects of Mind, then we can stop identifying with them and start looking for solutions to work around them.

These struggles to sit, to exercise, to create — they are not signs of personal flaws, weaknesses or limitations. They are signs that the system is working normally. A bicycle only maintains balance when in motion; this is not a flaw, but an unavoidable and intrinsic aspect of the design. There is only one solution: start pedaling.

Life between sits remains positive. I find myself in this interesting mental state these last weeks and months, where the over-active analyzer seems to be quieter and quieter. That aspect of mind used to be the main character in the inner drama. A paranoid, catastrophic-thinking radar system that believed all input needed to be analyzed for the proper next steps (which ironically often froze itself into inaction). That aspect seems quieter. Often I'm not necessarily aware of peace, but more aware of the lack of the Inner Critic. Or at least a reduction, as it still pops up.

Often when it does, it likes to regain dominance and tell me that we cannot just "go with e flow" — circumstances must be vigilantly manicured! Instead, I am slowly learning that this control is a bit illusory. Of course, we do have some control of circumstance and efforts are required. But I think it's more of a control of our actions, and not the consequences. The inner critic erroneously believes it can control consequences.

Learning about perfectionism and procrastination has been a huge help in this area. Bit of course the daily sits play a big factor as well.

On a personal note, I've been getting a good amount of artwork created lately, finding real momentum and satisfaction with the work itself and not the attention and rewards I used to be focused on (another example of controlling consequences, instead of actions). I've also discovered that oyster mushrooms are quite delicious! Not much in the way of books this week, been bingeing on past episodes of the Mysterious Universe podcast while digitally drawing.



I can resonate so much with this man, it is absolutely spot on. And it has given me the important insight that the mind is indeed an inertia machine. I have a problem with procrastination that I often saw as a flaw but am now starting to view it differently.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Dec 21 2014 :  12:11:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
@ak33 Definitely check out the iProcrastinate podcast. I had erroneous notions of what procrastination and perfectionism really were. Procrastination is a tool to avoid stuff — change, facing fears or anxieties, facing outcomes that we may be judged negatively on. It stems from perfectionism for many, myself included. Because we identify these outcomes with out self-worth, we fear expressing them at any level other than perfect. Since that is impossible, we either put it off (indefinitely) or avoid it altogether.

I can't express how much this knowledge has helped me this past year.

Glad the writings have been helpful to you.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Dec 21 2014 :  12:18:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2014-12-21

A quite noticeable and profound shift in the meditation sits this week. A culmination of the growing experience over the past couple months and particularly the past few weeks. Initially most noticeable in the inner energy sensations, but as of the past few days, this has expanded into deep stillness (the dynamic stillness mentioned by Yogani in the AYP lessons for sure) both in the mental and physical aspects.

The spinal breathing sensations have become very distinct, strong and also more refined and subtle. Mula bandha and sambhavi mudra continue to deepen in control and connection between the two. Mula bandha continues to refine and engage musculature higher up in the pelvic/abdominal region. Sambhavi mudra seems to have shifted to a slightly different place, a bit more up and back than where it used to be felt. Deeper in the skull basically. Just slightly. Overall the inner energy feels more "full" and "thick", but not thick in the sense of dense. Just occupying more area. Like a foam that has expanded, the rise of bread due to fermentation of the yeast.

It seems to me that these changes in sensations are directly related to that experience of a few weeks ago when I experience the shift of the sexual energy move from the erection to the "spinal nerve"(the inner energy along the spine). When that happened I first noticed that shift in the sambhavi mudra sensation. One of those aha moments where you feel it all engage and think "now THAT is what they were talking about". Of course, those experiences seem to repeat in cascading cycles along this path!

All of these experiences are primarily physical, but they do bring about deep focus and stillness of body and mind. I mentioned elsewhere this week that when I started meditation, I tried to still the body with the mind, and now I still the mind with the body! This all starts with asanas. Speaking of, kneeling seat asana really amplifies these spinal energy sensations (always has), as well as sambhavi mudra and mula bandha.

Anyways, the meditation sits have been reaching some quite profoundly deep and still — and perhaps even blissful — experiential states. These are quite repeatable, although I've noticed that this seems to come and go in waves in yoga practices. But for now, it's al, quite expected for me when I sit to feel these sensations and be able to repeat the states. I even find the mula bandha and sambhavi mudra spinal energy to express itself randomly throughout the day, often lulling me into a small and short reverie of sorts.

I had one great experience this week of note. I was at the grocery store, and a bit mindlessly leaving as I noticed my mind rattling off judgmental criticisms about the people I passed. Instead of defaulting to identity fixation with these thoughts, I literally shook my had, laughed to myself at this "negative friend" I always seem to hang out with, and why he's the way he is! It had the nature of "he's a good guy, he's just a bit insecure and that makes him defensive and ego-protecting, and it comes out as criticizing others… but if you got to know him you'd like him"! Lie this little kid who you wish would grow up a bit. It was very liberating. I find myself still laughing about this cranky guy in me, and wonder why he's like that. Just as I do not need to act like a cranky physical friend, I do not need to act like a cranky "inner friend". Just because he is like that doesn't mean I have to as well.

Life between sits remains positive and healthy. The cold I got while visiting family is finally subsiding. I'm finally settling back into my routines here, getting art created and more time devoted to my new mycology hobby. The oyster mushrooms are just do starting to fruit. I also started up two small jars of homemade sauerkraut to launch my fermentation experiments. I just finished Michael Pollan's "Cooked" and he got me wanting to make my own fermented foods — sauerkraut, bread and beer. I've a,ways wanted to make my own beer to really understand how it works, and I like the idea of being able to bake my own bread. It seems such an intrinsic aspect of being a civilized human, might as well have first-hand knowledge. I guess in a way this is my "food yoga". Direct experience!

On a side note, Pollan's books on food are all superb. I recommend them all. I used to be clueless about food, now I am voraciously interested in learning, doing and knowing all I can. I came to eating healthy and yoga initially due to some periods of deep and growing depression. I had the thought the other day that the deeper I am involved in as much of the process of my food as I can, the further away the depression gets. Of course, I've also been meditating the entire time as well, so it's tough to say.

Food Yoga. I like it!
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Dogboy

USA
2195 Posts

Posted - Dec 21 2014 :  4:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
It seems to me that these changes in sensations are directly related to that experience of a few weeks ago when I experience the shift of the sexual energy move from the erection to the "spinal nerve"(the inner energy along the spine). When that happened I first noticed that shift in the sambhavi mudra sensation. One of those aha moments where you feel it all engage and think "now THAT is what they were talking about". Of course, those experiences seem to repeat in cascading cycles along this path!


The erection of the shushumna!

quote:
But for now, it's al, quite expected for me when I sit to feel these sensations and be able to repeat the states. I even find the mula bandha and sambhavi mudra spinal energy to express itself randomly throughout the day, often lulling me into a small and short reverie of sorts.


This is what I love about yoga, how it spills off of meditation into the every day. Each and every moment holds the potential of blissful energy.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Dec 28 2014 :  12:08:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy

quote:
It seems to me that these changes in sensations are directly related to that experience of a few weeks ago when I experience the shift of the sexual energy move from the erection to the "spinal nerve"(the inner energy along the spine). When that happened I first noticed that shift in the sambhavi mudra sensation. One of those aha moments where you feel it all engage and think "now THAT is what they were talking about". Of course, those experiences seem to repeat in cascading cycles along this path!


The erection of the shushumna!

quote:
But for now, it's al, quite expected for me when I sit to feel these sensations and be able to repeat the states. I even find the mula bandha and sambhavi mudra spinal energy to express itself randomly throughout the day, often lulling me into a small and short reverie of sorts.


This is what I love about yoga, how it spills off of meditation into the every day. Each and every moment holds the potential of blissful energy.



So I am not alone in seeing the symbolism of the meditator sitting with crossed legs as a metaphoric erection. I suspected I wasn't, but nice to have some external validation.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Dec 28 2014 :  12:09:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2014-12-28

An uneven week of sits, which unsurprisingly correlates to an uneven state of mind this week. Some days saw incredibly deep, profound, focused and energetic sits, while others were average at best, filled with mind-wandering and restlessness, both mental and physical. A bit of a letdown from the previous two weeks of profoundly still and energetic sits. The end of the week saw them slowly return.

The uneven state of mind is no doubt a factor. The holidays are on average usually positive for me, but this year I felt a bit slighted by my mom. I also acted a bit passive-aggressively towards her, which doesn't help matters much. I can see in hindsight that it all comes down to my desire to control external circumstances. That doesn't mean I wasn't being taken for granted, but it does mean that I didn't work to master the one aspect I can control: my thoughts and reactions to those circumstances. Sometimes I forget the Stoic mindset when the emotions get riled up.

When sits have been good, I am still finding deep stillness in body and mind. I can literally feel the stillness arise in the body, and that usually carries the mind along with it. As usual, the Kneeling Seat asana posture does this quite obviously. I've also noticed quite distinct and strong inner energy and automatic yoga during samyama — did I mention I added those back into the routine a few weeks ago? They seem to be going better this time around.

After recording a podcast episode with a friend on the topic of habits — in which I suggest the "bookend" habits of making the bed in the morning and keeping a clean sink before going to bed each night — it got me thinking of how the more involved I become in the process of growing, preparing, eating, and cleaning up after my food and meals, the happier I've become. Of course, this also coincides with meditation, regular walking/hiking and exercise. But for some reason the food really stands out to me.

I had the thought of "food yoga", where one has the perspective of food and eating not as chores or necessities but as a desired activity. I expressed this to some relatives with the phrase "food is my hobby". The idea being that if your hobbies and interests overlap with activities you have to do anyways, you can make your life simpler. It got me thinking about how the society we live in conditions us to desire the outsourcing of living our lives to corporations. We barely have to do anything to survive these days, and it has all been abstracted away from our experience. My re-reading of Michael Pollan's latest book in his "food series", "On Cooking", no doubt played a large role in these thoughts.

I'm now taking this even further past the washing dishes stage, on to the waste I produce. Looking into worm composting, which seems an ideal solution for someone not looking to start an actual compost pile int he yard (I am a renter). This all seems to be reflected in a quote by naturalist/philosopher John Muir I stumbled upon last night:

"When we try to pick out any thing by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."

That quote was found in an interesting book I am reading, "The Antidote". The basic premise is based on that saying that "happiness is the absence of striving for happiness". The author so far has touched upon many topics of interest to me such as meditation, Stoicism and at the same time is a bit critical of others I find interest in, like positive thinking and goal-setting. His approach is more that there needs to be a healthy balance of these things, and that includes some approaches one might consider "negative". I'm not even halfway through but I think anyone on the path of meditation might find the book of interest.

Speaking of self-development, my last Big Thought of the week is actually an old thought, one that popped up in an Evernote search. The basic idea was that the chakra symbolism seems to correlate with the major components of self-mastery:

1. anger/aggressiveness/self-control
2. sexual
3. food/gluttony (navel)
4. pride/ego/selfishness (heart/solar plexus)
5. lying/evil speech/gossip (throat)
6. reckless mind (brow/third eye)
7. ?

I'm not sure where that 7th chakra comes into things. Perhaps spiritual development. I also wanted to compare the "8 limbs of yoga" and see if somehow they correlate to the 7 chakras. Perhaps the eighth limb is an "octave"of the first. An octave in music is actually the 7 intervals between notes (I think). I'm probably reading into this way too much!

At any rate, life between sits remains overall positive despite some rough patches and a tinge of depression here and there. Yoga and meditation have taught me that the body can lead the mind, so when I get into these mental states, I do something physical. Usually a hike. Break the routine (both circumstantial and mental). I no longer try and "think my way out of it" (also known as the highly unproductive practice of rumination), and instead I move my way out of it.

I've come to see my mind at this point in time as a 3-year-old. I can't reason with it nor use logic or nuance. But I can take it to the park and take away distractions and other triggers for the tantrums it likes to throw. It again strikes me as it did when I first started down this path of how much physicality is involved in spirituality. A passage in another book about food ("On Food and Cooking") mentions how the word "animal"is based on the Latin word for breath (anima). An animal is "one who breaths" or a "creature who has breath", and I don't think I am alone in perceiving the word "animal" with the physical, somatic aspect. But there it is, once again the "spirit", the prana. The breath and the body again deeply intertwined.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Dec 28 2014 :  1:56:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman

Yoga and meditation have taught me that the body can lead the mind, so when I get into these mental states, I do something physical. Usually a hike. Break the routine (both circumstantial and mental).

I like that. I just went on a nice walk barefoot and found myself being more and more tuned in as I softly focused on the sensations of my feet and whole body, as well as the beauties of nature. Just walking down a street I had never been on brought entirely new data to process and admire.
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Dec 28 2014 :  3:01:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
A passage in another book about food ("On Food and Cooking") mentions how the word "animal" is based on the Latin word for breath (anima). An animal is "one who breaths" or a "creature who has breath", and I don't think I am alone in perceiving the word "animal" with the physical, somatic aspect. But there it is, once again the "spirit", the prana. The breath and the body again deeply intertwined.

Yes The breath, wind, and spirit.

Your journal is very consistent. Thank you for sharing it.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2015 :  10:08:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2015-01-04
A decent week of sits. Focus, stillness and inner energy have returned for the most part, if not as intense as around the Winter Solstice. However sambhavi mudra and mula bandha continue to refine and become more distinct and pronounced. I am also noticing great intensity of the sensations at the brow, which have shifted slightly lower and further back to be more in the sinuses than the forehead. The "spinal nerve"/sushumna is becoming more pronounced. Could be related to being more aware and conscious of it. I've begun allow it and the sambhavi mudra to express itself more during meditation, allowing the mind to be aware of it rather than aim for some sort of "total relaxation" or "do nothing but focus on the mantra" mindset.

Life between sits has been good. I was in a bit of a funk for a few days, which seems to be lifting. Can't tell if it was holiday-induced or not. Typically I have a good time with family,and this year was no exception. I was feeling a bit ill and my exercise and walks/hikes have been intermittent at best as of late. Being thrown off my routine also seems to be something that affects my mood. I noticed this distinctly when away visiting my brother in November. I like my patterns!

I read this interesting yoga/meditation overview over at the Swami J website. It definitely influenced my approach to the spinal nerve/sushumna attention mentioned above: http://www.swamij.com/sevenskills.htm. His description about how learning to recognize relaxation in the body is a key aim in yoga practices really resonated with me.

I've noticed how initially my preconceived notions about meditation were about some sort of conscious manipulations of the mind to get it to settle down. But the more I meditate, the more I've come to realize that yoga is a sort of "back door" to the mind through the body. The more I learn to relax the body, the mind follows. And the more I practice the techniques, the more I am aware of what sensations indicate relaxation and I can favor those to enable a quicker entry into the relaxed state.

I am currently reading Scott Adams' (of "Dilbert" comic strip fame) book "How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big" in which he attempts to analyze the successes he has had in his life. Much of what he describes are concepts I've come to believe myself, based on tons of other reading from various sources. Anyways, Adams as well as countless other constantly talk about the "fake it until you make it" concept, which in a sense is again this "body leading the mind" technique.

I find this fascinating, as the concept of "spirituality" (which I find a painfully vague and useless term) seems to imply something that transcends the physical. At least in colloquial use of the term. My research of not only the etymology of the word, but also of implementing these spiritual practices has led me to a very body-focused perspective. Spirituality stems from the concept of spirit, or breath — the animating life force. We get words like "animal" (a creature that breathes) and "animated" (both from anima; life force) but also "inspired" (breathed into, by "the gods"/muses) from this mysterious word spirit/spirituality. The central role pranayama (restraint of breath/animating life energy) points to this again, a physical basis for spirituality. A spiritual person is one who has mastered the breath.

I may be pushing the correlations here, but I'm seeing in "prana" a link to "anima"in the "ana"— pranimal?

At any rate, the central role of the physical, of the body, of the act of breathing has been one of the more counterintuitive aspects of yoga practices for me. I like counterintuitive and idiosyncratic experiences and discoveries, particularly when I have some underlying skepticism. Which reminds me of recent experiences with the inner energy sensations (spinal nerve, sushumna, sambhavi mudra). As I noticed pronounced sensations in the sinus and brow area, often it would end at weird places — typically off-center, like just behind one eyeball. I liked that because it felt "real".

The non-perfect expression of that sensation lent it more credibility because my analytical mind thought tap hat if it were psychosomatic, one would imagine the sensation perfectly — dead center, right were all the ancient drawings show it. Instead, it was off a bit as if it were still finding its way to the right location.

Life outside yoga (a distinction less and less easy to pinpoint!) has been relatively mundane. The oyster mushrooms fruited but kind of stalled out. Another flush has already started. I also started up some fermentation experiments: sauerkraut and a sourdough starter. After finishing up Michael Pollan's "Cooked", it really cemented my existing interest in giving these methods a go.

I think my first sauerkraut jars are not safe, and started two new ones last week. The new ones look healthier. The sourdough starter has been frustratingly slow, with no seeming progress. Although I've read that starting one from scratch isn't the easiest thing.

It fascinates me that these organisms are everywhere, all the time. Nature is ready to convert that stored energy in matter and life back into simpler, reusable chunks as soon as the conditions arise. The role of the fermenter is more about the creation and cultivation of the right environment and conditions so that the healthy microorganisms can thrive, and the unhealthy ones (for humans at least) don't get a foothold.

Reminds me a lot of yoga, and my thoughts above on the centrality of the body in the practices: cultivate the right environment, and the ideal results which are already all around you will thrive.
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Dogboy

USA
2195 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2015 :  11:49:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
As I noticed pronounced sensations in the sinus and brow area, often it would end at weird places — typically off-center, like just behind one eyeball. I liked that because it felt "real".


As I cultivate energy, the sinus cavity is a major player. Have you ever seen a hawk motionless in the air, riding an invisible updraft? In bliss states my attention is drawn to that "hawk" in my sinus surfing the whisper of breath to and fro.

quote:
It fascinates me that these organisms are everywhere, all the time. Nature is ready to convert that stored energy in matter and life back into simpler, reusable chunks as soon as the conditions arise. The role of the fermenter is more about the creation and cultivation of the right environment and conditions so that the healthy microorganisms can thrive, and the unhealthy ones (for humans at least) don't get a foothold.

Reminds me a lot of yoga, and my thoughts above on the centrality of the body in the practices: cultivate the right environment, and the ideal results which are already all around you will thrive.


your comparison here!
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2015 :  6:03:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman

A spiritual person is one who has mastered the breath.

Hence the opportunity to use the breath more purposefully as we progress. In AYP, there is "heart breathing", and there is another Buddhist practice called tonglen, which uses the in-breath as a means of dissolving suffering, whereas the out-breath becomes an outpouring of divine love. I practice both heart breathing and tonglen, depending on my mood, but I've grown particularly fond of tonglen because it actually stares at the suffering directly with a kind of bravery, and also draws upon our innate ability to transform the obstructions.

As usual, your writing is very lucid and insightful. Bravo!
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2015 :  1:39:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dogboy: thank you. My "inner energy" animal metaphor is no doubt a curious snake. I can feel it "searching". It reminds me as I write this, along with your hawk metaphor, of the symbol of Quezalcoatl, the eagle with a snake in its talons.

Bodhi: thank you as well. Interesting in the breath techniques. I'm moving slow and steady on this end, the last modification to my practices was adding Solar Centering to the mantra, as someone here suggested (it has been a very energetic addition). I haven't even moved past the base AYP mantra, although I've considered it off and in the past few months.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 11 2015 :  1:40:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2015-01-11
Another good week of sits. The deep stillness and intense energy are back and pretty consistent. A few distracted sits here and there. The obviousness of my distracted mind and the quality of the subsequent sit is quite apparent at this point.

Also apparent is how intrinsic the body is to yoga. It's easy to feel as if we are transcending the body and mind with these techniques, but I think we are transcending the tyranny of distractions cause by the body and mind. The less I try and "escape" or "let go", and instead really sink in to the cultivated energy from pranayama once I transition to deep meditation, the more energetic, blissful, still and focused my sits become.

Again, I feel as if my path is still at that stage of losing all preconceived notions about what meditation "really is". Or has reached yet another milestone on that path. The lessons compound and continue.

Life between sits remains overall positive. My motivation levels have been quite low this week, and I find myself slipping into slothful winter habits of watching too much TV and not writing,reading and drawing as much as I'd like to. Still, I am in a better place than I was a year ago with all these areas of my life. I just know I'm not living up to my potential.

I've been devouring posts on the blog "Raptitude" by David Cain as of late. The posts on mindfulness have had a very distinct resonance with me, and have helped me find deeper levels of stillness and focus during a few recent meditation sits. The author's way of writing and the way his psyche is structured seem eerily similar and familiar when I read his articles.

He writes a lot on the chattering mind, and his perspective is quite helpful in loosening oneself from the incessant patter. One of his posts discusses methods to find mindfulness in the mundane, and he discusses how one can take on the perspective that you are watching a movie in a dark theater, where you really get absorbed in the reality of the experience for 90 minutes. That led me to thinking how the mind is like this DVD audio commentary track constantly playing while you are trying to "watch the movie".

I'd suggest starting here with Raptitude, at least as far as the mindfulness posts. He's got some other fantastic writing on other related topics as well. Be sure to dig in.

http://www.raptitude.com/2014/03/ho...ing-so-much/

The author specifically suggests using the physical sensations as your anchor to break free of the tyranny of thoughts. He mentions how physical sensations are "now". His discussion on how thoughts and their evaluative/analytical nature are a form of control, a form of dissatisfaction with the present.

I had moments after reading a ton of his articles, both during meditation and in-between, where I reached this state of "turning off the commentary track"and just "watching the movie". It's interesting how much anxiety is present even during those glimpses of that stillness. We identify with that commentary track so deeply, we have fooled ourselves into thinking its the only way to experience experiences.

It also seems as if it's a form of desire to control the world, your circumstances, through this as-close-to-real-time-as-we-can-possibly-get analysis of experience.

The author describes, as experienced meditators know, that the key to all of this is practice. We are learning to notice this quieted mind experience, what it feels like, how to reach it consistently, and how to expand the duration. We get better by doing it every day.

As Cain keeps mentioning in his blog, the physical sensations are a door to this experiential state. The physical aspects of yoga are no doubt techniques to do this. When Cain mentions bringing your attention to a body part when you notice you are off in thoughts, it just sounds like a "physical mantra" to me.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 18 2015 :  12:48:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2015-01-18

This week of sits was very unfocused and didn't reach much stillness or deep concentration. Physical stillness was decent, and inner energy sensations were strong but diluted compared to previous weeks. I've been forgetting to mention the frequent spontaneous stage 1 kechari mudra occurring fairly regularly during spinal breathing.

I've been in a slightly depressed mood for the past week or so, and it's no surprise that this correlates to the quality of the meditation sits. Lots of rumination, mind-wandering, monkey mind in both daily life and meditation sits. These periods of slight depression always concern me, as they have potential to go deeper. The meditation and other practices I've been maintaining are part of my anti-depressive regimen which has been working fairly well this past year or more.

Still, these episodes of lowered moods also increase pessimism towards many things, including meditation. It's easy to find this all a waste of time without any incontrovertible experiences. That said, I can contrast past (and fairly recent past) experiences of deep joy in everyday moments, or a light and non-self-conscious experience of life. That is a marked change for me, so I know something I am putting into practice is working.

The depressive periods I've come to correlate with a probable lowered level of dopamine in the body. Dopamine having an aspect of anticipation of reward or pleasure, it's easy to find thoughts of "this is worthless", "whats the point", "a waste of time" and similar thought patterns cycling endlessly. The knowledge of this is mostly what keeps me clear of circling deeper into an unhealthy ruminative mindset.

I found this post over on the Raptitude blog quite helpful as a way to navigate the ebb and flow of moods and mindsets: http://www.raptitude.com/2013/03/ho...ind-the-way/

I do have to say it's disappointing to find that meditation and yoga isn't some cure-all for these episodes. Although I do have to say the episodes are fewer and further apart than they used to be. But when I am "up", going back "down" contrasts much more strongly than it used to when I was mostly "flat" instead of "up".

But I remind myself of Alan Watts and his lectures on the concept that often systems which contrast each other arise at the same time so as to enable one to perceive each distinctly. In other words, there is no "front", only a front/back system where both aspects arise at the same time. The front implies the back, the back implies the front. So too, joy must be contrasted with suffering. Although there is much talk in the yoga/meditation literature of "unending divine bliss". I've obviously not reached that stage, as mine definitely ends at times.

These lowered moods and the corresponding lack of anticipatory reward-seeking also take a toll on my productivity. Procrastination has been running high, my art output has taken a hit. I've become more passive-consumer as opposed to my preferred active-producer mindset and motivation levels.

Most of this past week has been focused on maintaining routines of meditation, yoga, exercise and eating healthily as well as my daily art practice. I've found these disciplines help keep me on point. As I've mentioned in earlier journal entries, I've come to find the body as the vanguard for the mind. By putting the body into motion and action, the mind usually follows. My only motivation is to put these routines into practice, regardless of whether or not I feel like it.

The trap I've come to understand is this lack of future reward-seeking (low dopamine perhaps, related to depression for sure), which plays into the procrastination, which is little more than a psychological defense mechanism for my perfectionism, which is low self-esteem coupled to a Fixed-Mindset perspective and an externalized ego. In other words:

Low motivation (low dopamine) = thoughts of "Why bother? No reward."

These thoughts then trigger (or reinforce) procrastination.

Procrastination is tied to my struggle with perfectionism (attempts to control the external environment because I've come to externalize my ego by identifying with my actions and output).

The perfectionism in turn hinges on Fixed Mindset theory, which tells me that I perceive myself as a fixed entity, rather than a mutable one; therefore, my actions and creations define me, and I erroneously perceive these talents as innate rather than learnable and changeable. I avoid doing them if I fear they are less than perfect (which they always are, perfection is impossible and a continuously receding target), because I fear that will reflect on me and in turn my self-worth and self-esteem.

At any rate, meditation has been a huge help in cultivating this self-observation mindset, or perhaps more accurately, this mind-observing perspective. Being able to semi-objectively observe the processes of the mind, it becomes easier to dis-identify with the mind process and contents.

A few times this week, I caught myself saying to my mind "enough already!" in regards to some recurring and obsessive patterns of thought. This in itself is very helpful and a powerful tool.
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Dogboy

USA
2195 Posts

Posted - Jan 18 2015 :  2:55:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
A few times this week, I caught myself saying to my mind "enough already!" in regards to some recurring and obsessive patterns of thought. This in itself is very helpful and a powerful tool.


In arriving at the truth, it's always preferable to have a Witness who will testify!
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LittleTurtle

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Jan 18 2015 :  3:51:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yogaman, I really enjoy your journal posts. Thanks for making them!
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Jan 19 2015 :  09:26:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent journal--thank you, Yogaman!

The body is the vanguard of the mind. Of what is the mind a vanguard?
Eternity, God, infinity? We don't know, really. Like the body can never have full knowledge of the mind, neither can the mind ever know beyond all it's possibilities. Maybe it's like Coleridge says, that we can never grasp creation with the tools of destruction.

----------------------------------------

Limes et Circus [The Line and Circle]

A dagger, a shield,
charging, cutting:
Its trailblazing vision
of brilliant progress.

Clumsy vanguard!
Front of effrontery.

A transient purport
in a sea of surety.
The waves will
sweep away
every mark
of time.

----------------------------------------

All the bodies that clash are figments of its dreams, little heroes, marshaled of that splendorous dream, clashing with bodily reality. The mind consists of ideas, but what is their higher reality? Best laid plans, like best laid ideas, are inevitably swallowed. Some say everything is swallowed in undifferentiated knowledge. Others say it is swallowed in infinite love. A few have even suggested something more hellish. Somewhere amidst the legions of gods and mortals, there is a small truth, all the truth that is ever needed, and it is not far away or mysterious.

My policy is to err on the side of optimism.



Edited by - Anima on Jan 19 2015 1:06:29 PM
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compassion

87 Posts

Posted - Jan 22 2015 :  03:03:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogaman,

I'm not a regular reader of your journal, so I apologise for not having the whole story on anything. But I noticed you talked quite a bit on procrastination in your last entry, which is something that has affected me significantly in the past. So I wanted to share something that has helped me.

If there is something I am procrastinating so much that I won't even start, then I sit comfortably and imagine myself starting or doing the task. Then I just watch those feelings, thoughts that arise, bodily sensations, etc. None of the experiences arising need labels, only someone to notice them. I do this for a while, with my eyes closed. This often becomes blissful and, if so, I just watch the bliss.

Then one of two things happens. Either I open my eyes and find the freedom to simply do the task. Or some idea comes to me, which solves some problem (that I might not even have known that I had) that immediately makes the task easier to start or complete.

A final note: I think the exercise should be done with the intention of simply seeing what's there; not as an attempt to coerce yourself into doing the task.
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Jan 23 2015 :  12:41:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman

Yoga Recap 2015-01-18

This week of sits was very unfocused and didn't reach much stillness or deep concentration...

A few times this week, I caught myself saying to my mind "enough already!" in regards to some recurring and obsessive patterns of thought. This in itself is very helpful and a powerful tool.



Yes, moods and feelings come and go, the waves on the surface. That is ok. There is abiding Bliss still in the depths when we aren't as distracted...

My friend Kris Ward, a yogini/life coach has an expression that she uses on her mind, where she says, "Thank you for sharing, monkey-mind, but I'M BACK!" You would have to hear it in her amusing tone of voice.

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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 25 2015 :  12:22:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the kind words and insights everyone. I apologize that I am not more active with replies, but it's amazing how fast my days fill up. But I do appreciate the insights and I am glad to know that people find these of value.

Regarding the procrastination, the one thing I've found helpful is the 5-minute rule: I start IMMEDIATELY on a task, but allow myself to quit after 5 minutes. I've discovered that the mind is inertial, and it prefers to continue to do that which it is doing. Healthy or unhealthy. Passive or active. It only takes about 5 or so minutes to make that activity the thing the mind wants to maintain. Again, the body leading the mind. At least for me.

Also, see today's post where I bring up a definition of self-discipline I found this week that really works for me.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Jan 25 2015 :  12:25:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2015-01-25

A decent week of sits. Better than last week. My mood has also lifted as well. The two seem quite related. Some decent inner energy cultivation and experiences, and good stillness overall. Meditations have been hit and miss, mostly average to poor as far as mind-wandering. I've been maintaining regular samyama and yoni mudra kumbhaka along with a basic asana set. These are typically limited to my evening sits when I have a bit more time for them. Strong and distinct inner energy and sambhavi mudra and mula bandha during Kneeling Seat as usual.

As mentioned, life between sits improved somewhat as far as mood and the lifting of the depressed mindset. There's no doubt that the routines and habits which I've trained myself to execute regardless of motivation have been a big help. I was reading some posts over at a self-development blog where the author defined Self-Discipline as the ability to get yourself to take action regardless of your emotional state. I really like that perspective, because so much of what can drag us down into inaction is an emotional state.

And I doubt I am the only meditator to observe the cause-effect relationship between the mind and the emotions. Since the process of observing/witnessing the mind as part of our yoga practices reveals to us that we are not our minds, then it follows that we are also not our emotional states. Therefore, allowing our emotions to dictate our actions is about as healthy as allowing the mind and thoughts to do so.

Again, I return to this deep connection to the body which contrasts my persistent preconceptions of yoga as some ethereal, otherworldly non-physical experience.

I've been working on practicing mindfulness in my daily life, no doubt due to some binge-reading of er at Raptitude.com. His writing also encouraged me to listen again the the audiobook of The Power of Now, as well as finally listen to Wherever You Go, There You Are. It surprises me that I've not read WYGTYA earlier, as the author gave a superb talk on meditation at Google (video on You Tube, author John Kabat-Zinn).

So far, it's a deeply profound and insightful book. I particularly enjoyed a recent passage where he describes Buddhist demons as virtues in disguise, it really inspired some imagery in my mind's eye. I'm glad I got around to the book finally.

The Power of Now on the other hand left me a bit cold. The early chapters have some great and inspiring stuff in them, but eventually it falls into that zone that turns off my left-brained mind — vague explanations presented with absolute authority. Also stuff that just seems flat-out contradictory, such as persistent statements of how one doesn't need to "do" anything and how everything is perfect as it is, followed by urgent claims that we need to "heal the planet". If everything is perfect as-is, then what needs fixed? If this is all part of the process, and only our limited brains mired in the illusion of time believe they need to "do" something , then why does something need to "be done"?

I had the amusing thought this week that the one piece of information that enlightened people don't seem to receive is a practical and direct method to reach these states of enlightenment! How the universe functions? Check! How pain and suffering function? Check! A reliable method to transcend the illusions that allow direct experience of these states? Um, I forgot to ask!

I recorded a podcast episode with a like-minded friend this week on the topic of meditation. This is our third episode of the podcast (his podcast, I'm just the co-host). We cover topics in the self-development area. Habits was the first one we did. I forget the other topic. My buddy Jeff is a bit more on the other end of the spectrum from me as far as beliefs and acceptance of ideas. It's an interesting balance. He believes in a lot of stuff I am highly suspect of. But we share an interest in some of the topics and I like the opposing dynamic of skeptic/believer. It should be interesting once we hit topics I think are hogwash.

But discussing meditation out loud was very enjoyable. Often I only write or think about the practice. I realized how far I've journeyed on this path and some of the overlooked milestones I've reached, including but not limited to:

- being aware that one can witness/observe the mind, and thus dis-identify with it
- being aware that emotional states arise from thoughts, and the process can be consciously controlled
- seeing how repetitive and shallow much of my inner dialogue can be
- being able to sit relatively sill for entire sits of 20 minutes
- learning how it feels to have the body in a relaxed state, and being able to enter that state very quickly

The Inner Judge

I also read two books by Don Miguel Ruiz this week, The Four Agreements and The Voice of Knowledge. I was expecting to be turned off by them, but was pleasantly surprised. Ruiz describes this Toltec approach to the mind with an approach very easily digestible by the Western mind. He could have done without the term "black magic" and other weird choices. His books offered a concise psychological roadmap to mental processes and didn't need those vague terms.

He spoke often of the inner judge. That critical stream of thoughts that I have come to discover is little more than the ego looking to prop itself up by putting others down. Ruiz really brought home how this Inner Judge is constantly affecting our world view.

It resonated with my own self-observations of mind during sits. I notice my mind takes on a few regular "cast of characters", the Critic or Judge being one of those. My observations have revealed the following patterns of thought:

Critic/Judge: The Past. This aspect has a running commentary on everything I've done or do, which by it's nature is in the past. The ringleader to which the other personas defer and behave in relation to. The Critic also compares, such as: that car is nicer than my car, that person is more attractive than me, that person has more money than me. The Critic looks for contrasts, and heightens them.

The Critic is quick to employ The Rehearser to role-play past events in future scenarios (often fantastically-heightened versions of situations which rarely come to pass at all).

The Rehearser: The Future. The Rehearser analyzes all behavior that is coming up in the near future, real or imagined. It envisions scenarios, and then tries to improve what it thinks the Critic will criticize. The Rehearser will have hypothetical arguments, often with a real-world person playing the embodiment of the Critic. These often center on topics or interests of which I am self-conscious, or behaviors I am shamed by (anger, gossip, pettiness, passive-aggressiveness, etc). The Rehearser is often defending these actions in imagined future conflicts, and usually making excuses for the undesirable behaviors. But always arguing to defend itself. The Rehearser also works on mundane things like wording an email ahead of time, or mentally practicing things I want to say on a phone call, drafting social media posts, and the like.

The Self: The Present. Of course, there is that abiding presence that through yoga and meditation, we are all working to cultivate more awareness of — the Witness to all of these shenanigans. This aspect plays the smallest role, although it has increased dramatically since meditating began. In fact, I could even say that I was unconscious of this aspect of mind until a year or so ago.

The Inner Judge and the Rehearser and in many ways a parent/child dynamic. The Parent/Judge is the master Critic who sets the rules and must be appeased. The Child/Rehearser works furiously to analyze every action and potential action to avoid the wrath of the Critic. The problem here is that the Critic is never pleased. Ever. By its nature, it can't be. It would cease to exist. So it will always find something else to criticize. It needs to "keep its job", maintain relevancy. So the Rehearser is on this Sisyphean quest to appease that which can never be appeased.

In many ways this is revealing to me the source of the struggles with perfectionism, another insurmountable obstacle — one cleverly designed to avoid confronting perceived pain/rejection by never actually reaching goals. "It wasn't my best work, so I can't be judged accurately and this suffer blows to the ego which erroneously over-identifies with the work/actions and from which it derives self-worth."

At any rate, being more aware of the Inner Judge has been quite revealing, and I do my best to note its appearance both during meditations and between. Focusing awareness on it tends to defuse its power.
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jusmail

India
491 Posts

Posted - Jan 29 2015 :  11:57:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Your note about the critic and rehearse are so valid in my case. They seem to be present in meditation most often. Enjoy your journal.

Blessings to you
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Feb 01 2015 :  12:13:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jusmail

Your note about the critic and rehearse are so valid in my case. They seem to be present in meditation most often. Enjoy your journal.

Blessings to you



Glad to hear the analogy has helped. From my reading those aspects of mind seem to be pretty common. They seem to be a side-effect of the experience of time. As if the human animal needs these inner guardians for these new powers of memory and imagination.
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Yogaman

USA
295 Posts

Posted - Feb 01 2015 :  12:35:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yoga Recap 2015-02-01
A welcome return to the strongly energetic and deeply still sits. Unsurprisingly coinciding with an improved overall mood and outlook. Some sits particularly towards the end of the week quite profoundly so.

My weekly yoga recap has become a sort of life journal, or perhaps my life is just becoming more yoga-infused! In fact, with the conscious practice as of late of mindfulness in my daily activities, the latter seems to be the case.

All this writing has inspired me to set a daily writing time where I work on some form of writing every day. I've come to see how immensely helpful it is to actually formulate these fragments of thoughts and ideas that accumulate in the mind over the course of a week. As with these posts, which I always think are going to be a paragraph or two, my daily writing is only 15 minutes minimum but often goes much longer once the creative flow begins. Often the ideas themselves arise during the process of writing, not before. So it's also a process of discovery and creation. I've had some valuable insights from this, and already in my new writing habit I've discovered some new things, making the process instantly a must-have habit.

In fact, these writing sessions precede meditation sits, which in a way help clear the mind of thoughts since I've captured them in writing and that anxious mind can rest assured all that genius content is preserved for all humanity! :)

Mindfulness Eurekas/Mind Matrix/Conscious Positive Emphasis

Speaking of mindfulness, I've inly been consciously working at this for a week or so, but I am already getting ever so slightly better at it and already noticing the shifts in awareness. Or rather, the insight I had last night was that I am aware of when I am in Standard Consciousness Mode (mindless, monkey mind). Like drifting off the mantra in meditation, I often do not notice the gradual egress to this state, but because I've been cultivating the contrast and an awareness of that contrast, I now am more fully aware of being in Standard Consciousness Mode (SCM).

I was off on an anxiety-fueled session of mindless self-berating in the shower yesterday (The Rehearser trying to "fix" regretted behavior to appease The Judge). Suddenly, I realized how non-mindful I was at that moment and also how profoundly that way of experience the world totally SUCKED! It was so obvious that I had to laugh.

I realized that this was indeed a form of "The Matrix" — living in this illusory world that blinds you to reality. I was off in this mental existence, with self-manufactured rules (and deeply negative and pessimistic viewpoints) that I was taking for granted, and then launching off into endless what-if scenarios as if those imaginary rules I was accepting were facts or truth. And it all happens so fast, and slips right by one's conscious awareness.

Earlier that day, troubled by an earlier action of mine I had regret for, I was out shopping at a new food market I wanted to try. Because of the anxious rumination over my regretted action, and the ensuing mental self-abuse, I was sharply aware at one point of how this mental abuse I was heaping upon myself was shaping my experience of the world around me. Not only my perception of it, but literally changing the way others behaved. The cashier, who most likely was at best ambivalent to my precedence, was perceived as judgmental (obviously an externalization of the Inner Judge who was dominating the mind at the time). My demeanor, facial tensions and the like were no doubt tensed up into a conveyance of a decidedly non-happy nature. I then slipped into mindfulness/Witness mode, and realized that any reaction of hers if there was one was being conditioned by me to some degree.

I'm not saying one can go out and just shape the reactions of others by being cheerful, but it did seem to me at the time that if the conditions are open or receptive to influence, your mental state, which ripples out to the emotions, the body, the body language, the facial expression — and who knows how many other subtly body language cues we are unaware of — is going to have a real effect on those you interact with.

Later that day, inspired by the excellent book The Happiness Hypothesis which I am reading this week, I did some thing new to deal with these anxious regret ruminations. Instead of focusing on and becoming angered by what I didn't have (support of many whom I considered friends), I decided to be active, and choose to focus on what I did have, and thank directly and deeply those who I did have support from. I can't tell you how profoundly beneficial this flip in the experience was. I will be doing much more of this in the future. Not just making yourself aware of who you are grateful for, but expressing that gratitude directly to the person. Powerful stuff.

I'm not sure any of these things would be likely with me without the practice and experience of meditation. By learning to not identify with the contents of my mind, I've learned I can change them and I'm getting better at noticing and remembering to do so. And better at doing it too. Prior to meditation, those thoughts "were" "me" — so there was no way in hell you are going to change the way you think it your thoughts are "you" (our buddy the Ego isn't going to allow that kind of behavior!).

Happiness Is B.S.

I had the realization washing dishes this week (which is becoming one of my favorite daily activities and also a superb mindfulness session opportunity) that happiness is bullsh*t. It's an unhealthy thing to try and achieve, only because it is guaranteed to fade. It's guaranteed to return, too. And I'm not saying one shouldn't bask in it when it's around.

But it's that attachment to the experience that makes us suffer. Instead of accepting the natural and inevitable rhythm of happiness and depression, we cling to one half of this yin-yang system — thus guaranteeing suffering. Because what we are trying to do is impossible, we are going to fail every time. If we then perceive this as a reflection on ourselves, we care just setting up conditions for life-long pain. One shouldn't strive for happiness any more than they should strive for pain. When happy, think "enjoy this, as it will fade" and when in pain think"enjoy this as a way to remind you how good it feels to be happy, and it too will fade". And that might be going too far. Maybe we should just strive for the experience of each. I'm not the first to suggest that happiness is the absence of striving for happiness, I know. Happiness addiction seems like it is a dangerous game.

Hindsight Mystical Experience

A conversation with a close friend this week unlocked a realization of an old experience in a new light. The original experience was about 20 years ago, right as I was graduating college without a clue what to do next, and my girlfriend of 3+ years had just dumped me for the guy she'd been seeing behind my back. The combo of these was unbearable. I was in a deep anxiety-ridden depression for weeks and months. I was as lost as I'd ever been.

Looking back, I see how that was all due to the identification with my environment and circumstances. External idatio not of the ego. Literally, the constructed Self I was operating under was in the process of annihilation. It was being dismantled and I had no control over any of it.

At any rate, I found myself one Spring day on the porch, skerchbook in hand and doing my best to avoid ruminating. I was watching the still-leafless branches of a tree sway with the warm winds, when suddenly my perception shifted. Nothing looked different, visually. But my experience had taken on a new character. I recall still that my initial thoughts were "the wind isn't moving the branches, the wind and the branches are moving with each other, in harmony, in collaboration" and then the analytical mind kicked in with "this is how poets perceive the world". This was a moment, many moments, of deep bliss.

Eventually, this ended. But something had changed. Unfortunately, I experienced what I called then for lack of a better term "panic attacks" or "anxiety attacks". Which no doubt they were. However, it wasn't until dinner this week with my for end,more counting this memory, that I realized "wait — this is what happens to Eckhart Tolle, and tons of other mystics". The deep depression unleashes the mystical experience. For me however, I didn't go on to deeply abide in The Now and become pals with Oprah. Instead, I got months and years of slowly fading anxiety attacks which regrettably I tried to drown with alcohol. I wandered around stores like Target for hours (I was also unemployed at that time). I had to keep the body moving to keep the mind still. Distracting places where I could be anonymous in a quiet crowd were beneficial.

As I mentioned, these tapered off gradually in intensity over the next few years. It was down to a vague trickle for the last year, but the presence of the feelings were unmistakable.

I've been thinking about this experience quite a bit since I had the realization about what had actually happened back then. I looked back over what journals I did keep (most I had trashed years ago) and the sketchbooks I had. It seems I was reading a lot about kundalini, particularly Gopi Krishna's books on his initially harrowing kundalini awakening experiences. That could be total coincidence, as I'd been interested in that and related esoteric topics prior to my hindsight mystic experience.

I was energized by the realization that my nervous system was not only capable of the mystical experience state, but that it was primed already to do so again. And as anyone practicing meditation-yoga for any length of time knows, much of what we do prepares us to experience certain states (relaxation, the Witness, etc) so we can recognize and cu,to ate them when they do arise. Knowing what it feels like helps a lot. Of course, I am going to use my bicycle analogy here and compare it to the feeling of finding your balance — once you get a taste, it makes subsequent successes more easily attained.

Quite the full week in hindsight, having written it all out. Again, another reminder of why I want to maintain a daily writing habit to compliment this valuable weekly one.
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
791 Posts

Posted - Feb 01 2015 :  3:30:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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