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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 24 2014 : 12:34:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
One is not an artist because they have mastered some skill, but because they regularly put that skill into action.
Exactly. Hence the importance of recognizing that an identity (artist, yogi, athlete) is merely tacked on to describe an event that is already occurring.
One thing I like to contemplate is how superfluous an awards ceremony can be--after a big tennis match, for instance. The joy and the thrill is watching the players compete at a high level of intensity, but once it's over, who keeps watching TV to see the awards ceremony? It's anti-climactic. Same with the Oscars. Getting lost and immersed in the movie itself far surpasses any accolades that get tacked onto the piece of art.
I've read so many spiritual books. I've devoured AYP material like a ravenous scholar. I can access a mental, holographic compendium of much information. But at the end of the day, what do I want? The direct experience.
We want to taste it, touch it, smell it, feel it, and hear it. And of course, we want to transcend it. Desire...that's what makes the world go round.
Indeed, well said! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2014 : 2:54:07 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-09-28
A good week of sits. Continued to sit without an external timer. I prefer it this way, although my sits tend to go long. At the suggestion of AYP forum friends, I added the Solar Centering practice this week. It definitely changes the character of the sit. It's a bit disruptive to the routine with an added level of complexity. But this is true for adding any new practice. Some deeply still and strongly energetic sits this week, but also some distracted, mind-wandering sits as well.
Life between sits remains good. My health started improving, although the illness reared its head again today after 2-3 days of thinking it was behind me. Had to cancel some plans which bums me out. Nothing I can do though. Beyond catching up on work, I got some progress in on some personal art projects. Mood remained positive this week for the most part, even had a few of those random "laughing out loud for no reason, then laughing at my random laughing" moments. But also some deep realizations about hang-ups/attachments that have been dragging me down throughout my life.
I've been listening to a new podcast, First Things", which digs into the psychology behind productivity. I found it from a search for perfectionism podcasts and episodes. The podcast is a good intro to these topics if this stuff interests you.
Learning about perfectionism (and its evil henchman, procrastination) has been quite revelatory for me. While I am still working to truly uncover all the embedded sources, peeling away what I have so far and working to be observant of when I act at the mercy of it has been very helpful. So much makes sense. Like learning about being an introvert, I laugh deeply when I read the signs and descriptions of those who struggle with perfectionism — its me to a T.
I've not had much time to ponder the Big Questions on yoga/meditation that I've brought up here as of late. But I did give the audiobook of Deep Meditation another listen while out hiking this week. I found this at the end, in the chapter "The Rise of Inner Silence — The Witness":
"This is not a philosophy we are espousing here. In scriptures and philosophical treatises we can read long dissertations on the nature of consciousness and the nature of life. The mind can try to grasp all this, and what will it mean? Not much. We can’t know what an apple tastes like until we bite into one. It is that simple.
The proof of the pudding is not in looking at it, but in eating it!
Discussions about consciousness are only that – discussions. So let us resolve to stick with discussions of real experiences here, not theories. If it is described in this book, and you can’t go out and experience it as a result of your own deep meditation practice, then you are not obligated to believe any of this. Experience is the final arbiter of what is true and what is not. You don’t have to take anyone else’s word for it. The practice of deep meditation is both self-directed and self-validating."
This indeed is what piqued and maintains my interest in yoga/meditation. Perhaps it is the case, as in hedonic adaptation, that the gradual changes become assimilated as they arise and the change is less noticeable (for some at least). That considered, a slightly earlier passage in Deep Meditation sets up the imagination for a much more obvious experience:
"If we are sitting in meditation and the divine inspiration of our religion comes riding up to us in a golden chariot, what shall we do? If it is Jesus, or Buddha, or Krishna, or Moses, or Mohammed, and they ask us to go for a ride in their golden chariot with them, what shall we do?"
That isn't very subtle, or open to interpretation. It doesn't sound very subjective ("I think maybe I might have experienced a glimpse of inner silence"). It definitely heightens expectations in the reader/aspirant.
Although it goes on to say this about inner silence:
"There are several ways we can notice our rising inner silence. That is, if others haven’t noticed something going on in us first, and said something to us about it.
There can be a general sense of peace, a slight euphoric feeling that seems to be following us around all day. We might find ourselves shrinking a bit less from the challenges that we face each day, and participating more in discussions where we felt we did not have much to offer before. Or maybe we just feel like taking on more in life – with a new found energy we have. The signs of rising inner silence are endless. But there is one symptom that is unmistakable, and this is the emergence of the witness."
I can attest to the peace, enthusiasm and slight euphoria at times.
And Yogani does point out at the end of the prior chapter that slow and subtle are the ideal signs of progress — even if he does drag that damn golden chariot back in!
"For the rest, if we are following the correct procedure in our meditations, we will find gradual improvements on many fronts in our daily life – less stress, better health, more inner peace, more creativity, more enthusiasm, and more love and compassion for others. And, who knows? Maybe a divine savior will offer us a ride in their golden chariot sometime. For the glamorous things we let go of in favor of the mantra in deep meditation, there will always be an opportunity later on."
In the end, I do find myself noticing positive, beneficial changes in my experience of the world and in understanding of myself. I can only point to meditation as the source, and for that I am quite pleased and satisfied. But so much more is mentioned.
I think perhaps that because in fact I have been experiencing these things, and I am experiencing a strong inner energy (prana?) sensation, that I am able to say that at least some of what was described is indeed resulting from putting these techniques into practice. But then there is this part of me that asks "now what?". Perhaps my vague expectations are taking the initial stirrings of inner energy and comparing that to the descriptions of golden chariots.
I keep thinking back to when I first taught myself to play guitar. I practiced for hours every day, for months. Not only did I feel like I was getting nowhere, I actually felt like I was getting worse. I stopped. But a couple of months later, I decided I wasn't going to just give up. To my amazement, I picked up the guitar and the Blues scale was just pouring out of my fingers like I was a pro. It turns out that even if my conscious mind wasn't aware of it, I was learning the entire time.
That experience taught me that just because it doesn't seem like you are making progress on the surface, it doesn't mean there isn't something deep going on behind the scenes. And that progress doesn't always happen in a gradual slope, but often in quantum jumps to the next level.
Until next time, off to "practice my scales". |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2014 : 4:55:17 PM
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Excellent. Reminds me of a simple saying in AA, which is: Progress, not perfection. Hope the solar centering works out for you.  |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2014 : 1:04:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Excellent. Reminds me of a simple saying in AA, which is: Progress, not perfection. Hope the solar centering works out for you.
Another perfectionist trait I recently read, that of focusing on perfection of the goal as opposed to working on perfection of the process.
Solar a entering has been interesting. I need some more time for getting used to the shift in focus and the change in energy character. But it seems to be different for sure. Thanks again. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2014 : 2:20:32 PM
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Hi Yogaman, Bodhi Tree,
I've been reflecting on perfection too, thanks to this missive from non-dual Christian teacher Richard Rohr which arrived in my box on the 28th. Perhaps you will fine something in it useful, so here is the link:
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/...=QNKVg1q8Nh0
Namaste,
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 12:24:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Hi Yogaman, Bodhi Tree,
I've been reflecting on perfection too, thanks to this missive from non-dual Christian teacher Richard Rohr which arrived in my box on the 28th. Perhaps you will fine something in it useful, so here is the link:
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/...=QNKVg1q8Nh0
Namaste,
Thanks for the link. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 12:25:15 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-10-05:
Good week of sits. The solar centering practice seems to amplify, or at least alter the characteristics of the energy experience during mantra meditation. I'm not always sure I am truly placing my awareness of the mantra in the solar plexus, but regardless it has a noticeable effect.
Overall sits remain good. No timer, and I am going longer (and sometimes much longer) than 20 minutes for sits. I've noticed mula bandha has further refined in muscle control as well as using muscles higher in the pelvis. Engaging becomes very natural, requires much less effort and awareness. Sambhavi mudra too, but not as dramatic.
At times inner energy flow becomes quite strong and distinct. I feel at times if I am on the edge of a deeper state, but never reach it. I've had a few times where I've realized I was still holding some physical tension and let that go, to then find I sink into a deeper stillness.
A bit less yoga asanas this week, my sleep schedule has been off and less time upon waking. To be honest some of the time I just don't feel like it. Interestingly, often those times without asanas the sits sink quickly into focus, strong energy and deep stillness.
Life outside sits remains good. I'm still battling this cold/flu/allergy thing, but it's much more tame than it was. Mental state has remained positive throughout. In the past I've noticed extended illness can bring about some mild (and potentially worse) depression, but this time I've been able to steer clear of the rumination. I've also recently learned from my study of perfectionism that perfectionists can feel shame and guilt over being sick, especially if they live a healthy lifestyle. The erroneous thinking is that one "should" be immune from illness if they are living the "perfect" healthy life. Perfectionists like to use that word "should". But knowing about the health/illness thing was very helpful. I most definitely could relate to that once I read it.
My questioning mind has been still this week for the most part, a bit due to being ill, a bit to a calmer mind, a bit to focusing on other topics for reading and research. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 1:28:09 PM
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quote:
At times inner energy flow becomes quite strong and distinct. I feel at times if I am on the edge of a deeper state, but never reach it. I've had a few times where I've realized I was still holding some physical tension and let that go, to then find I sink into a deeper stillness.
Keep up Surrender, and soon you'll be falling over that edge!  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 5:37:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
At times inner energy flow becomes quite strong and distinct. I feel at times if I am on the edge of a deeper state, but never reach it. I've had a few times where I've realized I was still holding some physical tension and let that go, to then find I sink into a deeper stillness.
Nice description of that shift. Love when that happens. One of my favorite sayings is "pushing the edge of the envelope", which is how the test pilots in the 1950's would describe their effort to break the sound barrier or fly at higher altitudes. So it is with refining the mantra...pushing the edge of that envelope. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2014 : 12:40:14 PM
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An interesting description of the visualization experiences over on another thread:
quote:
When I first started SBP, I was quickly able to visualize the spinal nerve as a silver thread and was soon actually seeing the nerve. Then I gained the ability to trace from inside the little tube. Something different happen from being "inside". The flow of energy was seen as Fire or Water or Air or Earth or in Spirit. I was going up and down in fire (for e.g). This went on for the first couple of years. Then I also started seeing the different chakras (beautiful spinning flowers), the lotus and the silver serpent at the crown; the rainbow coloured energy lines surrounding the body which at very high vibration crystalizes into a diamond. Fascinating stuff!
It's this kind of stuff that while I realize is "scenery", I can't help but point to as some sort of desired experience for confirmation of the practices. I realized the other day that one of my struggles with reaching some level of inner energy experiences is the thought of "OK, now what?"
The energy experiences are mildly pleasurable, but nothing profound nor revelatory. At this point mostly a curiosity. With SeySorciere's above description of experiences, it's easy for me to think I am just reading into my experiences for them to be more than they really are, or that I am practicing incorrectly.
This isn't about complaining, rather just another attempt to explain my perspective on the yoga/meditation process. I know I am not alone in this after many conversations with local friends who have or are currently giving meditation a go. Perhaps if these questions don't resonate with others here, they may help a fellow traveler arriving here via Google search. |
Edited by - Yogaman on Oct 08 2014 12:51:03 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2014 : 7:34:15 PM
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quote:
Then I also started seeing the different chakras (beautiful spinning flowers), the lotus and the silver serpent at the crown; the rainbow coloured energy lines surrounding the body which at very high vibration crystalizes into a diamond.
Lucy in the sky with diamonds? One yogis interpretation of spinning flowers could be rationalized by another as visual brain tricks or ambient lighting in the room. Some yogis are more artistically inclined than others. Whatever the explanation, it's hard for me to get too caught up in someone else's experience.
I never could see the shushumna as a silver thread...
quote:
it's easy for me to think I am just reading into my experiences for them to be more than they really are, or that I am practicing incorrectly.
From your journal reports I'm confident you are practicing correctly.
IMHO I see you as lusting after other yogi's outcomes that may or may not be in the cards for you. I say damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead. You always have room with your stable practices to add more and test yourself (did I mention tantra?). From what you've shared, I don't think you've had much overloading. If you quit now you might miss it when it rains frogs!
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Edited by - Dogboy on Oct 08 2014 8:06:41 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2014 : 9:50:43 PM
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| Another thought: if it's visual scenery you seek, practice some yoni mudra kumbaca. The pressure on the eyes and releasing the kumbaca breath always seems to generate some kind of light show! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2014 : 02:43:10 AM
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Dogboy: no worries on giving up, I apologize if I gave that impression. Just dumping out the brain.
The inner energy right now is so strong and independent, it's kind of humorous that I have doubts or need for scenery! And I mean literally right now, as I type.
Thanks for the reminder on poetic interpretation. Often I can be very scientific and literal in my approach, and expect that from others.
I should be also posting here when I have dramatically deep, still and profoundly quiet moments of mind, spontaneously, and when I laugh out loud for no reason, like a hiccup of joy. Or when I see the squirrels in the yard bouncing around, and finding joy and fascination in their acrobatic and fluid movements, and how they seem to me an extension of the giant oak tree in my yard, one organism, how the space between things is this barrier to perceiving unity.
It's not fair to just harp on my questions and doubts, I need to also share the joys and surprises that keep me squarely on the ongoing path.
Thanks again friend. |
Edited by - Yogaman on Oct 09 2014 02:53:51 AM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2014 : 06:41:58 AM
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2014 : 3:44:40 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-10-12
Good week of sits. Much less asana this week. Mostly out of being a bit rushed when waking up. Been going to bed later than I'd like. Oddly, I find some days I sink into a deep stillness more quickly when I skip the asanas.
Sits have had an odd character where I can feel as if I am one moment deeply focused and still, and then next realize I'd been off in a stream of rapid-fire mundane thoughts. Other times, off in that "no memory of thoughts, but not on the mantra" mode.
Life between sits remains good overall. I've noticed a bit of impatience and anger, particularly with one current client of mine. My health remains in flux, feeling OK one day then sick again then next. It can hammer on the equanimity of mood for sure.
I read "Waking Up", a book on spirituality and meditation by atheist Sam Harris this week. Short but interesting book. I was surprised by how much time he had spent off searching for gurus, wasn't expecting that. His basic premise is that spiritual experiences or enlightenment are a function of the nervous system, but the experience is filtered through any religious belief system you may already be immersed in. But the experience is its own thing. Harris brings up the phrase I like so much on this path, "direct experience".
Harris also points out the shortcomings of the claims about spiritual experiences, such as the fallibility of so-called enlightened gurus and the inability of these experiences to enable the experienced to have brought back any specific scientific data that can be tested and replicated in a lab. He does however concede that most scientists are not having these experiences, and his book was intended in part as a call to science-minded folks to have these experiences so they can bring their expertise and perspective to it.
And a big thanks to the fellow AYP members who have reached out, it means a lot and is much appreciated. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 11:29:17 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-10-19
Good week of sits overall. Some days the strength and focus of the inner energy has been quite strong and distinct, as the stillness profoundly deep. Thought s that I am on the verge of breaking through to a deeper level. Which I am starting to think is going to be a persistent feeling on this path! "Just around the corner…"
I've been skipping asanas more often this week, and curiously found the sits to be more deep, still and energetic than anticipated. Typically my asana routine really gets the body relaxed, and mind starting to calm, and the inner energy flowing.
Life between sits remains positive. My health has been improving and I've been getting out for hikes when the time and weather permit. The rain and shorter days make this a concerted effort at times. Mood remains positive, often puzzlingly so — at least to the mind not acclimatized to random moments of unprovoked joy and happiness :)
I've been creating more art, and finding more pleasure in doing so these past few weeks. Less questioning and thinking on yoga topics this week. I finished up Sam Harris's "Waking Up" which was a good read, shorter than I anticipated. I also listened to the audio version of J. Krishnamurti's "Freedom From The Known", which is going to require another listen or an actual read. Lots to digest there. He seems pretty down on yoga/meditation though.
I did have the one core yoga question that has bugged me ever since I first started the practice: if this is such a natural state for humans (I think Yogani refers to it as a "divine right"), why are the techniques so obscure, odd and unintuitive? My intuition says that the physical side of these spiritual techniques are mechanisms which still the body through the nervous system, and from there still the mind. The body may be the biggest distraction one has to keep the mind from going still.
My other theory is that the techniques are misdirection to take one's mind off of thought. I took some glassblowing classes back in college, and the direct manipulation of these extremely dangerously high-temperature globs of molten glass had the curious effect of instantly implanting your awareness into the present moment, into The Now. And even once the danger was somewhat mitigated by one's experience with the materials and tools, in order to create successfully one had to be in constant awareness of and interaction with the molten glass. Constant rotation, constant reintroduction to the heat. The net effect really brought one to this mental state of supreme stillness and focus of mind. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2014 : 08:10:18 AM
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Hello Yogaman
I have been reading parts of your journal over the last few months. I thought I'd stop and say 'hello'.
Sounds like you're making nice smooth progress.
quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
I did have the one core yoga question that has bugged me ever since I first started the practice: if this is such a natural state for humans (I think Yogani refers to it as a "divine right"), why are the techniques so obscure, odd and unintuitive?
I thought about that too. I heard a theory once (more speculative than scientific) that humans evolved in very difficult times (glaciations, scarcity of food etc), so there may be a part of our brain - the 'miserable side' of us - that has a tendency to spin and hypothesise/look out for bad occurrences in the world around us. I don't know if this has any validity, but I think there is a more straightforward explanation: every human skill has a born/genetic side and a trained/culturally acquired side. The education/cultural component builds on the genetic one. Both have to be present for the skill to materialise. Articulate language is a good example. It was anything but 'natural' before humans developed it. The ability to acquire it is written in our genes, but it doesn't happen if we, as children, are not exposed to it and encouraged to practice it (the evidence is provided by lost children who grew up outside human culture, by wolves in one case – these individuals had no element of articulated speech whatsoever).
Spiritual unfoldment may be our birth right, but unless it is culturally encouraged and fulfilled, the potential remains unused. All of us who practice yoga and meditation actually contribute to the creation of a cultural trend. And if we humans are blessed with another few hundreds/thousands of years of relative stability, spiritual development might become as natural as articulated speech. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Enjoy your practice |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Oct 23 2014 11:41:33 AM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2014 : 08:56:39 AM
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Blue Raincoat you continue to amaze...
Along with my pranic arousal came the sense of my role as a thread in the Great Fabric. I am operating on ancient drives and cultivated passions, fostering an awareness of Self completely new to me. My body is morphing from the inside out; every single sit stirs energy for the change. Meditation for me now falls in the eating/breathing category.
Imaging the implications for society if this thing goes viral!
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2014 : 11:40:56 AM
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Thank you Dogboy, you are very kind. I like your metaphor - we are all threads in the Great Fabric.
Yes, meditation does feel completely natural when you've got used to it, doesn't it?
And it can go viral. More and more people are doing it. Have you happened to hear of the 'hundredth monkey effect'? Once a critical number in a group adopt a new idea/behaviour, then the whole group adopts it, virtually immediately. It takes time for the critical number to build up. And if that happens with meditation, it will suddenly become a matter of course for everybody. And then, we can only imagine what that society will be like...
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Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Oct 23 2014 11:57:16 AM |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2014 : 12:56:48 PM
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Yes! Many people/researcher believe that we (but also other animals) have huge potentialities which can be activated (like switching the light on) if somebody finds the trick like the ability to speak: it probably was latent for long time, and someday some humans discoverede that and used that ability for speaking. Think of people who develop the ability to write with their feet because they have no hands - it's no doubt that human feet can write, although we never use that skill.
@ Yogaman: I like your journal, read it every week. Sorry for going OT. :-) |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2014 : 03:33:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
An interesting description of the visualization experiences over on another thread:
quote:
When I first started SBP, I was quickly able to visualize the spinal nerve as a silver thread and was soon actually seeing the nerve. Then I gained the ability to trace from inside the little tube. Something different happen from being "inside". The flow of energy was seen as Fire or Water or Air or Earth or in Spirit. I was going up and down in fire (for e.g). This went on for the first couple of years. Then I also started seeing the different chakras (beautiful spinning flowers), the lotus and the silver serpent at the crown; the rainbow coloured energy lines surrounding the body which at very high vibration crystalizes into a diamond. Fascinating stuff!
It's this kind of stuff that while I realize is "scenery", I can't help but point to as some sort of desired experience for confirmation of the practices. I realized the other day that one of my struggles with reaching some level of inner energy experiences is the thought of "OK, now what?"
The energy experiences are mildly pleasurable, but nothing profound nor revelatory. At this point mostly a curiosity. With SeySorciere's above description of experiences, it's easy for me to think I am just reading into my experiences for them to be more than they really are, or that I am practicing incorrectly.
Dear Yogaman,
I do not consider chakras as scenery. They are real.
What is NOT true is that seeing chakras and energy and having mystical experiences are signs of an advanced practitioner. They're not. This lead to some confusion for me as well (I have since gained some understanding of Yogani's preached wisdom)because like you what I thought were indications of spiritual progress turned out not to be so when I was experiencing them myself. Spiritual progress is measured in daily life, in the flow of interactions in relationships, in degree of compassion, humility and service. Believe me, I struggle everyday with these ideals of Yamas and Niyamas I have set for myself. I often witness myself put my foot in my mouth and still cannot stop in time.
The feeling here is The more I experience, the less I know.
Enjoy your practices
Sey
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2014 : 02:11:16 AM
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Thanks for the replies, I plan on replying later this week. Lots going on this past week and the one upcoming. In the meantime, my weekly yoga recap:
Yoga Recap 2014-10-26
Some very profoundly deep and energetic sits this week. At times I felt yet again as if I were on the brink of reaching a new level. The focus of attention at solar plexus definitely affects the sits. The inner energy was becoming extremely focused at the brow, and also seemed to "move further back" in the throat. Or I am learning to relax the throat more fully. Mula bandha continues to refine and engage the higher sets of pelvic muscles and does so in a more relaxed manner. Attention has wandered quite a bit during these sits.
I keep forgetting to note one of the most odd experiences during sits: imagining scenes/locations/environments from video games. Not actual visualization, just memories of locations in 3D video games like Legend Of Zelda, World Of Warcraft. even more odd is that I'm not really a gamer, although in the past I got into it somewhat. But haven't played for years. I wonder if there is some experience around the time I was playing these games that is being brought to consciousness in some guarded fashion.
Often I have these "catastrophic" imagination tendencies (worst case scenarios). I've come to see some of the more shocking content of my wandering mind as a ploy by the ego to keep me from finding a deeper experience without it, when it senses I may be close to doing so. Sexual fantasy also seems to be a tool used in this regards. I wonder if the video game landscapes are related in any way. If my hypothesis holds any weight, that is!
After meeting a friend last week to discuss a discovered mutual interest in these spiritual subjects, and learning of his experiences with out-of-body-experiences, I read up a bit on the subject. I wasn't aware that "astral travel" or "astral projection" was the same experience. After reading a bunch of articles and Robert Monroe's fascinating "Journeys Out Of The Body" (very objectively approached and scientific, to my liking!), I was struck by how much his descriptions overlapped some of the yogic practices. Monroe even mentions this in the book, that (some) yogic techniques are specifically to reach this state. The classic drawings for the Taoist Alchemy meditative practices with the smaller being emanating from the head of the practitioner came to mind, and indeed the Wikipedia article on astral travel used that exact image.
Monroe speaks of how this so-called astral body or "Second Body" reacts to full-being thoughts, meaning also those in the subconscious — desires and emotions. One "thinks" their way to experiences. Thus, he said it helps to be able to keep the mind focused on one thought, to have discipline. He also talks of how sexual desire can overwhelm one in this state, and the ability to keep that desire in check has huge benefits. These resonated quite a bit for me in the meditation, mantra and pranayama practices.
While I've not read up in depth, the Yoga Nidra state that Swami J focuses on seems to be related to this experience — the body sleeps while the mind remains awake.
It also seems deeply related to the lucid dreaming state. With limited experience with lucid dreams (but direct experience nonetheless, and absolute certainty it exists) and no experiences with out-of-body-experiences, this is pure speculation. But the descriptions seem very similar, although the persistence of character of these different "astral levels" seems to imply something different. That said, I've often "revisited" old dream scenarios and locations throughout my life. Sometimes often in short periods, other times infrequently but spanning decades.
Monroe also speaks of this "silver cord" that connects the Second Body to the Physical Body (the spinal nerve?) as well as learning to find and enter a small point of white light (entering the spinal nerve, as Yogani describes, or the bindu described by Swami J?).
Some of the lead-up physical experiences described prior to leaving the body sound very similar to the descriptions of potential kundalini symptoms — "vibrations" in the body, buzzing/ringing in the ears, jolts of "energy" and others I can't recall now.
Monroe sees his experience as confirming the existence of "the soul" separate from the body, but for me there is still a connection to the body during these experiences. I'm not sure how temporarily leaving the experience of the body proves one doesn't need it. It fact, one seems tethered to the body and easily yanked back into it when sleeping uncomfortably. Monroe's second book was lost on me quickly once he began to explain his experiences in depth. While potentially interesting, they suffered from the lack of any useful information back in the real world.
I'm always wondering, as Sam Harris did in his book "Waking Up", why these experiences don't bring back some information about perhaps the cell, or about the planet, solar system or atoms and such that can be used to point a scientist in a direction that might help corroborate the information. Monroe seemed to be this kind of scientific mind having an esoteric experience and could this bring back some of this kind of information, but instead it seems very "big picture" and theoretical. More practical would be more ideal.
Of course, this is me placing expectations on the experience. It just seems that it would help clear up a lot of nonsense and skepticism around the topic. Big picture stuff is fascinating, but only real to those with direct experience. There needs to be some practical, mundane knowledge that relates to the daily experience of those not experiencing these states.
More roe goes into so much depth and detail about these big picture experiences, so I am focusing on them because he places so much importance on them. I think some mundane insights might go a long way to help get others on this spiritual path.
I do have to say that the bizarre experiences described by Monroe also remind me somewhat of the often-paradoxical descriptions of not only dreams and lucid dreams, but also those reports of people experiencing UFO phenomenon and reports of DMT trips in Strassman's book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule".
Anyways, life between sits (and reading and thinking!) has been good overall. Mood has been up and positive. I've been noticing heightened senses after meditation (sound, smell, sight in particular). The autumn leaves have been a spectacular tapestry to coincide with these senses heightened. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2014 : 09:37:55 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-11-02
A good week of sits again. Some quite profound sits actually. Again, feeling as if I am on the verge of reaching a new level of both energy experience, refinement of mudras and bandhas, and stillness/focus. At this point I am starting to think these experiences are what regular meditation "is"!
Life between sits remains positive and at times joyful — often for no specific reason. Quite wonderful. A stark contrast to where my life was even two years ago. Even a year ago most likely.
My schedule has been busy yet again. Less reading this week. Less thinking and analyzing as well. I did have the thought occur to me, while in one of those Random Joy moments mentioned earlier, that perhaps the experiences I am seeking are of an emotional, intuitive nature. Not left-brained, linear, logical, literal, intellectual, informational, and verbal. Perhaps my expectations are misguided (well, I am quite sure of that!).
I read somewhere recently that striving for happiness is pointless because we already are happy — what we really need to do is learn to eliminate the obstacles to happiness we have accrued. I have this recurring thought of "what if you're already enlightened?" That I like to play with at times. Just as meditation isn't really what I had expectations of before I began, I also assume I harbor erroneous expectations about spiritual experiences. Of course, some of those come from the descriptions of others from their direct experiences.
I stumbled upon a new practice I've been trying to make into regular habit — kind of a hybrid between mindfulness and the "write down three things you are grateful for" practice (which is a fascinating practice I've been maintaining each night before bed and highly suggest). When I catch myself not being mindful of the present moment, I aim to find one thing I am grateful for regardless of its simplicity. I've had the thought in the past that thought can often be this subtle disdain for the present moment, as if the present moment isn't good enough, or is being taken for granted. We are often planning, regretting, fantasizing, anticipating, worrying, rehearsing, judging — all of which take place in either the past or the future. This Mental Multitasking is probably about as effective as other types of multitasking (which is to say not at all).
It's so damn addicting to do it though! Part of this weekly journal is a way for me to get these thoughts down in writing, out of the Mental Verbal Loops that play in my head. I learned a long time ago from the book "The Artist's Way" how ineffective one's thinking really is — often we feel we are "really thinking" about something, but once you write it out you find you were only repeating the same superficial thought on the topic over and over. And once written down, it tends to lose its appeal as a ruminating thought.
I've had a similar observation about the Mind. Or more specifically, as author Graham Hancock calls it, Problem-Solving Consciousness. "Ordinary" consciousness. This mind seems to be an inertia-loving system/process. In other words, it likes to maintain whatever it is currently doing — no matter what it is, helpful or harmful. The productivity mantra of "just get started" plays a big factor here. We never want to stop what we are currently doing to do something new, but once we are doing that new thing for a small amount of time, it then becomes that thing that we do not want to stop doing, and so on.
Writing is like this: even this entry, which I assumed would be 3-4 sentences, is now reaching (as usual) extensive proportions. Because I shifted into "just get started", once I got writing the PSC mind then got on board and this became the thing it wanted to do. Meditation as well — how often I sit with little interest in doing so at the moment, only to quickly find myself drawn to the stillness.
I see writing as Productive Thought and typical mind-wandering rumination throughout the day as "Junk Food" Thought — I get a small jolt of energy, dopamine or whatever, but no real mentally nutritional value. Writing is the opposite, the slow burn of dense proteins and healthy fats, slowly unwound into the building blocks of a healthy mind. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2014 : 12:45:05 PM
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quote:
I see writing as Productive Thought and typical mind-wandering rumination throughout the day as "Junk Food" Thought — I get a small jolt of energy, dopamine or whatever, but no real mentally nutritional value. Writing is the opposite, the slow burn of dense proteins and healthy fats, slowly unwound into the building blocks of a healthy mind.
As a writer I definately agree, praise Allah for cut, copy, and paste!  |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2014 : 4:19:15 PM
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Yogaman reading your thoughts feels like "productive thoughts" to me too compared to the "junk food" thoughts I indulge in so much of each day.
Its so awesome in meditation when the thoughts chill out for a bit.
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Yogaman's journal
