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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 01 2013 : 8:35:17 PM
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According to George Feuerstein, Tantra influenced many traditions, including Vedanta. He goes on to explain differences in philosophy, including a dialogue between the two traditions. Vedanta (end of the Vedas) follows and in some respects modifies Vedantic teachings (ex. removing excessive emphasis on ritualism). Therefore, as time moves on, points of emphasis change, which some attribute to the Yugas (ages), that in some translations (J Woodroffe) equals vast spans of time.
I was particular about the context in which you made clear statements, and re-framing your position does not suddenly cast my understanding of them invalid.
A specific example: "His teachings, as you know, have nothing about ecstasy. Neither do teachings of Papaji, Nisargadatta, Balsekar, Spira, Lucille, etc. Modern popular teachers like Tolle and Katie don't talk about Kundalini at all. Can we take up an issue with all their methods?" Your perspective is that all of those do not. I can only comment on the ones that I did read and ponder on, such as Nisargadatta, and it was apparent to me that he did in fact stress an 'energetic' component, which to me is a unique position for an otherwise quasi-traditional advaita-vedantic teacher to do. He was also part of the Nath lineage. Therefore, my perspective differs from yours, obviously, and my intent is to encourage readers to engage the remaining teachings and dialogues with him from an unbiased perspective as to arrive at their own conclusion (regarding the emphasis or lack thereof of kundalini).
In the same sentence, you say "The point of this discussion is not whether there is an energetic component or not...Nobody here is disagreeing that there is an energetic component" and at the same time you also say "there is no pre-set prerequisite for awakening." For the sake of clarity, could you qualify which is true for you? My understanding of your perspective is vague at best, since it does not seem to have a stationary foothold.
"It is about claiming superiority of one "path" over another."
I am unsure who, if anyone, is claiming superiority in the above discussions. "How ridiculous to claim this or that way is the only way!" however does force one to adopt an inferior/superior judgment call, especially with regard to someone's living experience they are voluntarily deciding to share for the benefit of all? Furthermore, it is a valid argument to claim from personal experience (not my own, here) one disagrees with some given teacher's methods (in this case, details about their active regard/disregard for ecstatic conductivity) in favor of alternatives that are contrary to what they are prescribing.
"There is no ONE way" is also a perspective that contrasts with those holding a conviction with a sufficient level of certainty about their chosen path as being most appropriate and effective to them and to others they regard as having a shared interest.
The propositions go both ways, where you are forced to claim 'no teacher can ever promote their perspective for others to consider, since that would lead to the all-embracing 'one-way' fallacy.' The evidence, with respect to the role of ecstatic conductivity, is that it does play a role, and one can trace this back to Da Mo (Bodhidharma), founder of Ch'an Buddhism, who prescribed practices (xi sui jing) likely resembling those used to purify and awaken kundalini. That is my learned understanding, and to me it causes no cognitive dissonance embracing multiple paths (die-hard advaita, contemporary non-dualism, trika) even if in theory they are forced to take seemingly conflicting philosophical stances for the sake of integrity. It also isn't the first time a theory had a hard time grasping the breath of the natural world; Taoism for one struggled to make the five elements conform to such a great span of observed phenomena without coming to some definitive resolution.
"they all acknowledge the energetic component of awakening, but cultivating ecstasy is not their teaching."
In this case, ecstatic conductivity is not at odds with their teachings in the least, to the point where one could even expect them to begin teachin it, which is the complete opposite of stating such things have no role whatsoever.
"Nowhere did I say the tantric texts are not valid. Of course they are!" Again, they stress kundalini Shakti in all of its/Her manifestations/refinements, which is at opposite ends of claiming it having no role.
"Can we be ok with that?"
Certainly, and by all means.
"It is about letting teachers teach what they are called upon to teach." If someone's living experience contrasts that of a given teacher, a constructive dialogue can only be helpful to everyone. In the same way, just because someone adopts a given method does not render it infallible or beyond its own ability to change, a point already made earlier.
To put my stance (maybe bias) on the table, I also see the nervous system as the pivot-point of everything else, and so to me there is meaning in the words "effective" and "safe," which inevitably demands some means as less-than-effective and potentially dangerous/inert in the wrong hands. I am ok to disagree on this as well.
Many thanks to the insightful personal experiences shared. The same goes for the learned and verified insights, because when spoken from one's perspective says more than the bare facts and propositions alone. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2013 : 9:15:17 PM
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Hi Aum,
Which of the Upanishads have you actually read? I have not read George Feurgstein, so I cannot comment.
"Vedanta" has two meanings - "Veda" (the Vedas) + "anta" (the end). The obvious meaning is what you are referring to - based on the fact that the Upanishads are placed at the "end" of the three part Vedas, (of which rituals are one). Shankaracharya's "bhashya" or commentary of the Upanishads takes Vedanta to be literally, the "end of all rituals" (including spiritual practices) to merge into the Divine. The Upanishads are pure description of Brahman. There is not much emphasis on energy (or for that matter, any) practices.
Regarding Nisargadatta - where does he talk about energy practices or cultivation of ecstasy? None of the material I've read of his has cultivation of ecstasy as a practice or prerequisite. I'd be interested to read what you're referring to.
When I say there is an energetic component to awakening I mean that awakening is associated with energy opening/ecstasy, not necessarily that ecstasy is a prerequisite to awakening. Plenty of examples, even among the teachers named here.
My own path is similar to others who have posted here - cultivation of ecstatic conductivity being important. But, many among my circle of seeker friends differ in that this is not their path. Yet, the awakening is happening, beautiful openings everywhere. I don't feel the slightest need to impose my views/path on them.
Regarding what the disagreement here was, please refer to this 3-page thread. Not necessary to recap at this point.
No two persons' awakening or experiences will be identical. It is great to share one's unique experience, and what works for them. That approach may work for some others. It can be presumptuous to say that approach works for all. In this thread, the issue was that Adya was not doing something right. If someone feels that way (which is their birthright), there is no need to give Adya (or his lot) the time of day. To have a fixed point of view that he needs to change his game because it not congruous with our approach does not seem to be constructive.
Anyways, I think I've made my point clear. And there is no more to say on this topic, even for posterity's sake. Will bow out now.
Peaceful coexistence is the critical first step towards unity.
Namaste. |
Edited by - kami on Apr 01 2013 10:10:49 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2013 : 11:03:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chas,
quote:
The question was neither of those. An important part of the original question was "if you were in Adyashanti's position... and likely had little or no training in kundalini theory and practices, would you write or instruct extensively on the subject?"
Did you mean to answer the amended questions that way? Or should your yes and no answers be swapped?
The yes and no answers would remain the same. I left out the "If you were in Adyashanti's shoes..." bit for brevity and to make for easier reading rather than to change the question. 
You see, Adyashanti had been through a kundalini awakening and was (and still is) aware of the energetic aspect to awakening. The zazen practices lead to the awakening of kundalini just as any valid spiritual practices do. So although they do not use the word kundalini in zen teachings and practice, it is still an aspect of the path. So if I were Adyashanti, and I knew what he knew from my own experience, and I was teaching others about spiritual practices then yes I would speak about the energetic aspect of awakening and I would speak about it from my own experience as a part of the whole journey. And it seems like Adya does that and I am happy that he does.
My only issue there was that it was left out of the books that he published before "The end of your world" (pre 2008), because many people could read the books, do the practices in them and then that could lead to an energetic awakening that they would have no way of knowing how to handle. One problem is that people often don't associate energetic symptoms with their spiritual awakening, so in cases that are problematic they often think they just have some mystery illness that seems to go on for months or years and which the doctors cannot explain. In those cases they will not call up the author of the book and say "hey what's happening to me?" because they don't make the association.
quote:
"Duty?" Doesn't that sound a bit heavy? Should he have felt a sense of duty or responsibility to teach about "the energetic component of awakening?"
I wrote in my post above to Jeff about the relationship between responsibility and love. So whether it is seen as a sense of duty, or a sense of responsibility or a sense of compassion or love, whatever it is, the bottom line is that if a spiritual teacher does not teach their students about the energetic aspect of awakening and how to deal with it when it arises then they are not doing their job properly. It would be like an athletics coach training people how to run, but not warning them that they could sprain an ankle or tear a ligament if they don't train properly.
quote:
quote:
I wasn't aware that I had provided any quotes? If you are searching for the words: "Oh, yes that..." I wasn't quoting verbatim so I don't think you will find it.
It was stated as a quote, but I figured you meant it as a paraphrase. Still, I'm unable to locate any material regarding the type of interaction described.
Yes, I was paraphrasing, but not paraphrasing one single interaction (so please don't go looking for it), but rather paraphrasing a certain approach to teaching which is fairly common in the more advaitic approaches to spirituality.
This seems to be bothering you somewhat, so I will try and explain in detail what I meant by that.
I'll talk you through one case study, which is a true story and is happening to a friend of mine. Maybe you will be able to see from that what I meant by my comment about Adyashanti and the way the energetic aspect of awakening can sometimes be dealt with as an afterthought.
My friend went to see an Advaita teacher (not Adyashanti) and the teacher taught her to rest in her own awareness and to continually bring herself back to the sense of her True self. She went to see him every day, and every day he said the same thing: "We are the pure self, just rest in that etc. etc. ". So she practised continuously and one day had a very beautiful awakening. That lasted for a few weeks, and then things started to go wrong. Her nervous system was trying to catch up, but was not yet ready to handle the voltage of energy rushing through her body. She basically became unable to walk for much of the time, unable to think and unable to care for her son.
She went back to the teacher and told him what had happened and he said: "yes, there is an energetic aspect to awakening, don't resist it and continue with your inquiry". It was many years before she was mostly recovered and able to function normally again.
So my question to you would be: "how is Adyashanti working to avoid that scenario from happening? How does he avoid it from happening to people coming on retreat? Or to people attending his satsangs? Or to people who watch his youtube videos? Or to people who read his books, or who listen to his tapes? Where is the support structure for people who are not ready on an energetic level? ".
As a teacher, that is something that Adyashanti should certainly be thinking about. Adyashanti does address the energetic aspect of awakening, but then so did my friend's teacher. The problem was that my friend's teacher addressed it after the fact, rather than before and that caused a great deal of suffering in her case. So does Adya address it after the fact, or before, or at all in the cases of the people who bought is early books?
quote:
As I'm sure you are aware, it is not as common in Zen (or for those with substantial Zen influence) to talk about kundalini... His book "True Meditation" talks about the type of practices he was experienced with, and although it is not kundalini or energy focused, it is helpful for many.
Just because something is not common, does not mean that it should not become common, and Adyashanti seems to be one of those teachers who is leading the way in making it more common for zen teachers to address the energetics of awakening. So that is a good thing and something that I would encourage him to do more of and I hope other teachers who maybe try to avoid dealing with that aspect of awakening will follow suit.
All the best,
Christi
Thanks for sharing. It seems to me, that for everyone involved, we have much more in common than where we differ in opinion. I respect you and your experience that helped to shape your outlook. I understand that you have had issues with the lack of attention that Adyashanti has given to kundalini/energy prior to 2008. I'm glad that you have explained your position.
I agree to an extent with the points you're making. It is good to recognize the the energy dynamics of the process. It is great to have access to information, practices, support and guidance on the path. I'm grateful for the inspiration and guidance from the guru, the source of my being. I am grateful for Yogani, AYP, and this community. I'm grateful for my family and the guru in them. I'm grateful for (in no particular order) Adyashanti, Mooji, Ram Dass, Krishna Das, Nisargadatta, Jed McKenna, Kami, Krishna, Shanti, Jeff, Buddha, Kirtanman, Christi, Carson, Jesus, Lao Tzu, Ananda, Namath, and many many more divine beings.
In my opinion, there isn't any one out of place. Is there room for improvement? Of course, we all have space to grow. I don't see any value in cutting others down. I don't see the value in 'Monday-morning-quarterbacking' teachers. If I were truly in another ones position, I would be subject of the same conditions as them. Adyashanti approaches things from a unique point of view, as do each of us. We are fortunate that we have access to such a wide variety of information, systems, and people. If a particular person is not useful in a particular area, we still have vast resources available.
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Edited by - chas on Apr 01 2013 11:14:21 PM |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2013 : 2:41:31 PM
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The elephant in the room would seem to be a planet in spiritual distress. Specifically the issue of kundalini awakenings - both spontaneous and cultivated. Regardless of the causes that precipitated this phenomena - it is what it is. We must deal with it as best we can.
In my opinion, kundalini awakening is akin to shamanic initiation. Energy is liberated and what we do with it is the test. We are supposed to help ourselves and each other. The teacher's role may be one of compassionate observation. It seems that, for many of them, the ones who know exactly what we are going through, their chosen position is to remain silent (or to speak little on the matter). They support us primarily through the cultivation of inner silence. They are addressing the energy component but are doing it in a very subtle way.
It is in this peace and inner silence that the teacher exerts his or her most powerful support and guidance. The k experience, the energetic component of awakening, serves to restructure the ego identity framework. To make it more fluid, flexible and resilient. The ego, our self concept, is torn down and rebuilt multiple times as we learn to master the steps of this dance.
But the dance is very private, personal and unique to each individual. Like a teacher watching over a class of students, who are taking an examination to test the development of their skills and expertise...In a similar way, the spiritual teacher may watch over us as we undergo the energetic activation. They are chaperones and many of them choose non-interference. The students must find their own way, forge their own spiritual identities.
My personal preference would be for spiritual teachers to give a ton of explicit guidance regarding the energy component of enlightenment. However, I have found enormous comfort and inspiration from people who have shared their experiences. These people have not made themselves known as spiritual teachers yet it is through the sharing of their direct experience that maybe the most valuable guidance and insight is obtained.
May we all be enfolded in love
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2013 : 7:47:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Which of the Upanishads have you actually read?
I am familiar with the Ashtavakra Gita.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Regarding Nisargadatta - where does he talk about energy practices or cultivation of ecstasy? None of the material I've read of his has cultivation of ecstasy as a practice or prerequisite.
Here is a shorter selection of direct quotes that directly and indirectly hint at energy practices and the cultivation of ecstatic conductivity:
- All that lives, works for protecting, perpetuating and expanding consciousness. This is the world’s sole meaning and purpose. It is the very essence of Yoga — ever raising the level of consciousness, discovery of new dimensions, with their properties, qualities and powers. In that sense the entire universe becomes a school of Yoga (yogakshetra).
- To go beyond the body you must be healthy: to go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond
- Consciousness and unconsciousness, while in the body, depend on the condition of the brain.
- Man’s fivefold body (physical etc.) has potential powers beyond our wildest dreams.
- The ultimate value of the body is that it serves to discover the cosmic body, which is the universe in its entirety.
- A young child…sense of ‘I-am’ is not yet formed, the personality is rudimentary. The obstacles to self-knowledge are few, but the power and the clarity of awareness…are lacking.
- The right state and use of the body and the mind are intensely pleasant.
- Attention, alertness, awareness, clarity, liveliness, vitality, are all manifestations of integrity, oneness with your true nature; rebuild the personality in accordance with the true nature of the self.
- Here and now, through all your bodies and souls shines awareness, the pure light of chit. Hold on to it unswervingly. Without awareness, the body would not last a second. There is in the body a current of energy, affection and intelligence, which guides, maintains and energizes the body. Discover that current and stay with it.
- In the light of calm and steady self-awareness inner energies wake up and work miracles without any effort on your part.
- There can be progress only in the preparation (sadhana)… The fruit ripens slowly, but falls suddenly and without return.
- You must be energetic when you take to meditation.
- With deep and quiet breathing vitality will improve, which will influence the brain and help the mind to grow pure and stable and fit for meditation.
And my personal favorite:
- Find the spark of life that weaves the tissues of your body and be with it. It is the only reality the body has.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Regarding what the disagreement here was, please refer to this 3-page thread. Not necessary to recap at this point.
I am familiar with the content of this thread. No recap was requested.
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Anyways, I think I've made my point clear.
I do understand your points better, and the angles from which you approach them. |
Edited by - AumNaturel on Apr 03 2013 7:49:22 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2013 : 9:46:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AumNaturel
- To go beyond the body you must be healthy: to go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond
Superb. I should get this tattooed on my chest. In AA, we would say: first things first. One step at a time. Thank you. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4374 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2013 : 06:27:13 AM
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Hi guys,
I don't think many teachers would deny that there is an energetic aspect to awakening, it is just that some teachers emphasize it more, and others less. You would have to look pretty hard at Nisargadatta's teachings to find mention of the energetic aspect of awakening, but it can be found even if it is not abundant. The same would be true with a few other teachers.
I think the real issue here is the question of which comes first, the realization of the unity of all things (everythingness in Adyashanti's termnology), or the energetic awakening. So it is a chicken and egg problem.
It is a sensitive issue (as we have seen in this thread) because if the energetic aspect of awakening necessarily comes first then it can be seen to be invalidating a pure advaitic (non-dual) approach to realization. If the realization of unity comes first followed by the energetic awakening then it can be seen to invalidate the path of hatha yoga.
In my experience either can be the case so it isn't actually a question of one or the other. In the video that I linked to at the start of this thread, Adyashanti describes how he experienced a kundalini awakening and then later on experienced oneness (unity). In my own case, even though I was doing very similar Buddhist practices to Adya I first experienced a state of oneness at the age of about 21 and later went through a kundalini awakening.
So in fact two people following the same path can come to oneness in different ways, as can people following different paths. So it is not (at least for me) a question of one path being superior to another path.
Christi |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2013 : 11:05:13 AM
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Sorry, I didn't delve into the argument above. Too much reading!
I've read quite a few of the people mentioned above, and my feeling is that they are teaching from their own genuine experience. I wouldn't want a teacher who does otherwise! And I wouldn't expect experiences to be the same for all these people, even though the teachings all point in the same direction.
I find Adyashanti's work to be useful, and I'm so glad you had the opportunity to go to the retreat, Kami!
Love!
--Liz |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2013 : 2:04:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by whippoorwill
Sorry, I didn't delve into the argument above. Too much reading!
I've read quite a few of the people mentioned above, and my feeling is that they are teaching from their own genuine experience. I wouldn't want a teacher who does otherwise! And I wouldn't expect experiences to be the same for all these people, even though the teachings all point in the same direction.
I find Adyashanti's work to be useful, and I'm so glad you had the opportunity to go to the retreat, Kami!
Love!
--Liz
Thank you Liz! Couldn't agree more with you.
Much love. |
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Chakburthi
Germany
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 6:04:02 PM
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I really, really, really love listening to Adyashanti. Initially though, I also had the impression that he is almost trying to convince his students with his beautiful eloquence towards enlightenment. But he is indeed not ignorant of the energetic aspects of the path. Also see: http://youtu.be/WysDN5oVqZA
where Adyashanti appears to be everything but embarrassed about his Kundalini experience...
I think his teachings address those ripe ones that have already gone through the Kundalini stage. I have also listened to him, advising a student that has asked about the energy. He basically ignored her question and suggested trying to figure out who is aware (of the energy).
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Edited by - Chakburthi on Jun 14 2013 6:12:46 PM |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2013 : 10:45:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chakburthi
I really, really, really love listening to Adyashanti. Initially though, I also had the impression that he is almost trying to convince his students with his beautiful eloquence towards enlightenment. But he is indeed not ignorant of the energetic aspects of the path. Also see: http://youtu.be/WysDN5oVqZA
where Adyashanti appears to be everything but embarrassed about his Kundalini experience...
I think his teachings address those ripe ones that have already gone through the Kundalini stage. I have also listened to him, advising a student that has asked about the energy. He basically ignored her question and suggested trying to figure out who is aware (of the energy).
Thank you for sharing the video Chakburthi.
I would agree that his (as well as some other similar teachers) teachings appeal to those who might be ripe enough to make that subtle shift to "who" is aware of the energy or the silence.
After 3 months, I'm still in awe of his humble yet magnificent presence. If anything, he seemed embarrassed to be up on stage as the teacher..
Love to you. |
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chsmithe
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 09:55:26 AM
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I think Adya's main bag is that there isn't any one single path to awakening. Everyone has their own unique journey. So I think that he does a very good job of being aware of, and acknowledging Kundalini but he doesn't put too much emphasis on it because he doesn't want it to become a distraction for people as being the one thing that you should be fully focused on. He even recommended Shamanic ritual for those inclined? That is awesome.
I have followed Adya more closely throughout the years than any other spiritual teacher because he has a way of remaining very down-to-earth about the whole Awakening process rather than getting too cosmic and kundalini and whatnot. But he doesn't deny mystical states and kundalini either. He realizes the universe is infinite in its potential.
And I think that he feels that becoming too one-pointed on Kundalini will ultimately make your life more haphazard than anything. Kundalini Awakening doesn't necessarily mean Enlightenment. Awakening makes Enlightenment possible, but doesn't guarantee it. So you could awaken your K, but that could potentially lead to more confusion than ever before. Now what to do? He once said to me directly that many spiritual teachers can teach students how to awaken their Kundalini, but once they do that, the student has more questions than ever about where to go next in life. Usually, the teacher has no idea what to teach once the Awakening has occured. Where to go from there? How to live your life now? What he's trying to say is, Kundalini Awakening or just Awakening (the same thing, really), isn't the end of the journey. It doesn't stop there, and it's not enlightenment.
Enlightenment meaning, an abiding state of Unity.
And then Embodiment and the autonomous and unique expression of that Unity. |
Edited by - chsmithe on Jul 22 2013 12:28:56 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2014 : 06:40:10 AM
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Adyashanti Retreat UK 2014
I attended a retreat with Adyashanti a few weeks ago in London. It was a 7 day silent retreat with 350 people.
I haven't read all this thread because I just discovered it, but thought I would jot down a few things about my experience.
About a week prior to the retreat I started feeling strongly about it and felt a draw to experiment with energies out of the crown. As I investigated this I was feeling strong (by my standards) energies going up out of the crown and then when it reached a certain point above the head I could feel a corresponding opening of the heart. This went on for a few day and then a few days into the retreat and it tailed off into silence. So it was nice to experience this descending energy into the heart that I hear people going on about - a confirmation as such.
On the above, the image I get when these things happen (and similar things have happened with Amma) is that there are a host of spiritual helpers in some other realm, in association with the likes of Adyashanti and Amma, that are operating in conjunction with their teaching. Sounds bizarre to most but maybe not here.
A few questions came up on kundalini and I felt like shouting out - go to the AYP website for advice, it's all there and much more.
He did say he had K symptoms for about 8 years. The advice he gave a few times on this, as well as the usual grounding etc. was to see if one could get in touch with a neutral energy underneath the K energy and reside with this.
Towards the end of the week he gave a talk about descending energies but integrating the Jesus story, Buddhism and other systems and no systems. It was a truly beautiful talk. The whole place was in tears and at the end some people were balling their eye out. He knows how to weave a good story and push the right buttons.
It was a very different type of retreat than I would be used to. There was no floor space available for people to sit cross-legged, which I was disappointed with as were many others too, so we were all in auditorium seats, which were quite comfortable nonetheless.
In all I was very happy with the experience, not sure about going back next year, which is telling in itself, we'll see.
Thanks for reading
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mil
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2014 : 8:34:57 PM
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Sparkle
If you have any nuggets of the Jesus, Buddha thread that you found especially inspiring I would love to hear about it.
Thanks |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 02:19:21 AM
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| thx for sharing Sparkle |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 05:58:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mil
Sparkle
If you have any nuggets of the Jesus, Buddha thread that you found especially inspiring I would love to hear about it.
Thanks
Hi Mil
The Jesus/Buddha thing has interested me too. One of the main reasons I went to the retreat was because I was raised on ascending and descending energies in the form of dieties such as Jesus, the Holy Gost(Spirit), Mary etc. and was quite familiar with that. Then being drawn to Zen Buddhism and finding that there was none of that.
I had a hunch that I needed to focus more on the body energies and leave the higher ones alone for a while and it was AYP that got me into that properly with the use of Spinal Breathing by breathing through the forehead and staying away from the crown. This allowed more integration in the body for me as I tended to always go for the higher energies.
Adyashanti has been stressing the importance of the ascending/descending energies and so I thought it might be time to return to this. This has proven to be a good move and it feels very right at the moment and more balanced.
I understand that the Tibetan Buddhists incorporate the higher energies whereas Zen, Theravada, Mahayana don't, to my knowledge. But I have not been drawn to Tibetan Buddhism, too icon heavy for me.
Adyashanti talks a lot about his Christian roots and how it was his spiritual formation. This is the same for me as for many out there so it is great to have someone from a similar background with such clear insights to listen to.
He talked about metaphor in the bible a lot. One of the things he remarked on was that throughout the New Testament there are many references to people who are in a dark place i.e. possessed by the devil or evil spirits, and that they immediately recognized Jesus for what he was and asked for help. Adyashanti was struck by this and noted that these people were much more likely to recognise Jesus than say the Pharasees and Priests etc.. The moral of the story being that we often have to go into the darkness in order to see the light and it is out of the mud of inquiry that we grow and blossom.
Hope that helps.
thanks maheswari |
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mil
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 07:52:03 AM
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Sparkle
That was very helpful. I have the same curiosity between the ascending/descending versus the more body based traditions. I meet those contradictions (if I can call it that) in my own body and awareness...I have been struggling to understand the relationship between the two.
Thanks so much...I hop that Adya puts this one up for listening on his site. If you could tell me the date and the city if it is in the UK so I could look for it I would appreciate it. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 08:54:55 AM
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Hi Mil
Yes, I don't think they are contradictions but in my view they may require emphasis put on one or the other at different times, depending on what is going on for the person.
The retreat was in London 17th to 24th August 2014 and they said the audio's would be available in approx 4 weeks from the retreat date and would be on the Cafe Dharma link on his website.
All the best |
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mil
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 10:01:13 AM
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| perfect...thanks Sparkle |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2014 : 8:54:47 PM
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...and here it is: Silent Retreat Vol. 40 ~ U.K. Aug 2014
Talks $40.00 (6.5 hrs)
Q&A Sessions $55.00 (13 hrs)
...and Meditations $18 (2.5 hrs) |
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