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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 11:32:33 AM
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Dear All,
Thank you for your wonderful website. I am reading your website for almost two years now. I also bought Secrets of Wilder. However, I have a problem. I have acquired floaters (kind of dust in my eye: http://www.mouches-volantes.com/gal...der-picture/(volador)-eye-floaters.jpg) by non-proper meditation. I often have experienced increased pressure in my eyeballs during meditation even though I try to avoid this. Eventually, when it really because obvious that (non-proper) meditation was the cause of my acquired floaters, I decided to stop meditation, because it is almost impossible to avoid this increased pressure in the eyeball totally. Maybe all people should be aware of this disadvantage, even though it might be really shocking news. This was very difficult for me because I really thought that meditation was the end of all suffering.
Now I have stopped meditation for a couple of months. I decided not to spill my semen because I really know the spiritual value of it. Unfortunately, the noctural emissions trouble me. However, I still experience some kind of divine bliss when I have retained my semen for a while. However, when I was meditating I always assumed that when I will get enlightened I will understand reality. For instance, you say that you can see with your third eye and you can meet right now with the other side of the universe. These kind of questions I would like to have seen answered by experiencing it myself. However, this is not possible anymore. I know that Universal Love is the goal of yoga and this is really more than enough when you can practice along the way. However, I cannot practice anymore because I have duties to do for which I really need good eyes. My eyes are still good enough for it and I really am not going to waste them.
However, I am still interested in some knowledge/wisdom bypaths of yoga. I would like to ask you if you could maybe help me in some other way to help me answer a couple of questions about them:
-what do you see with your third eye? The same thing as with your normal eyes or just a white spot (which I have seen)
-can you really see the other side of the universe right now? Or do you just “feel in meditation” that you connect with it.
-how can you be so sure that we survive after death? People with the same inheritance are all pretty the same. I see brothers looks and they are often almost the same. There exist even large differences between different human sub “races”. How can you be so sure that some kind of subtle body survives? I have seen a friend of mine loosing part of his brain, he really changed because of this. Are we not just “neural networks” in our brain? How can this survive after death? This thing frightens me, it really push me hard into the Darwinism survival-mode direction. I don’t like that. Can you not satisfy my mind intellectually by offering me a yoga-alternative for this?
I do have more than a year meditation experience, however, this has not definitely solved these problems, although it made me sometimes feel like I solved it. Please, do not come up with “you should not strain your eyes and relax during meditation or “this is your bad karma” etcetera. I just have rationally decide to stop meditation; it is far too dangerous for me and I warn others too.
Anyway,
Thank you.
Thijs
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Edited by - Thijs van der Wel on Apr 14 2010 12:45:28 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 11:55:00 AM
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Hi Thijs and welcome to the AYP forums 
I would like to respond to your whole post, but I only have a second right now....just wanted to quickly mention that you can get rid of the "floaters" through the ayurvedic practice of "Netra Bhasti" (eye wash). I would recommend going to an ayurvedic doctor in your area and receiving a Netra Bhasti treatment or two as I am quite confident that it will help get rid of the floaters. I will try to respond to the rest of your post when I have more time.
Love!
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 2:53:04 PM
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Thank you for your answer. I know you a bit from the taobums,
you are a very disciplined practitioner. However, I don't think that
"Netra Bhasti" is going to help me cure my floaters. Netra Bhasti is a kind of massaging and refreshment of the outward eye with ghee. If
science cannot get the floaters out of the inner eye, I really don't think this will do it. It is common knowledge that floaters are not curable:
Most commonly, there is no treatment recommended:
Vitrectomy may be successful in treating more severe cases;[16][17] however, the procedure is typically not warranted in those with lesser symptoms due to the potential for complications to include cataracts, retinal detachment, and severe infection. The technique usually involves making three openings through the sclera known as the pars plana. Of these small gauge instruments, one is an infusion port to resupply a saline solution and maintain the pressure of the eye, the second is a fiber optic light source, and the third is a vitrector. The vitrector has a reciprocating cutting tip attached to a suction device. This design reduces traction on the retina via the vitreous material. A variant sutureless, self-sealing technique is sometimes used. (wikipedia)
However, I do look forward to your other replies. I sincerely hope
that I can maybe visit someone who can show me the answers now I am still able to see.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 2:58:38 PM
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Hi Thijs
quote:
I don't think that "Netra Bhasti" is going to help me cure my floaters.
Sure....think what you want, do what you want. I only suggested this approach because I know that it worked for a friend of mine who had been dealing with floaters for years. Couldn't really hurt to try it could it? Then you wouldn't have to "think" that it won't help, and then you could actually KNOW through experience whether it does or not. Just a thought 
Love!
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 4:08:38 PM
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Hi Thijs,
quote:
Thank you for your wonderful website. I am reading your website for almost two years now. I also bought Secrets of Wilder. However, I have a problem. I have acquired floaters (kind of dust in my eye: http://www.mouches-volantes.com/gal...der-picture/(volador)-eye-floaters.jpg) by non-proper meditation. I often have experienced increased pressure in my eyeballs during meditation even though I try to avoid this. Eventually, when it really because obvious that (non-proper) meditation was the cause of my acquired floaters, I decided to stop meditation, because it is almost impossible to avoid this increased pressure in the eyeball totally.
I have experienced various problems with my eyesight over the years. Floaters was one of those, and blurred vision around the edges of my eyesight was another. I also found it difficult to see in bright sunlight for quite a time and had to wear sunglasses. Nothing lasted forever, and now my eyesight is fine again.
Most negative symptoms of meditation behave like this in my experience, they come and they go. You may find that adding Spinal Breathing Pranayama to your practice helps to balance out the energies, or you may find that cutting back on your meditation time will be enough to reduce the pressure in your head.
quote:
-what do you see with your third eye? The same thing as with your normal eyes or just a white spot (which I have seen)
You can see all sorts of things with your third eye, from dots or colours to other worlds inhabited by self-luminous beings, or the light at the dawn of creation.
quote:
how can you be so sure that we survive after death? People with the same inheritance are all pretty the same. I see brothers looks and they are often almost the same. There exist even large differences between different human sub “races”. How can you be so sure that some kind of subtle body survives? I have seen a friend of mine loosing part of his brain, he really changed because of this. Are we not just “neural networks” in our brain? How can this survive after death? This thing frightens me, it really push me hard into the Darwinism survival-mode direction. I don’t like that. Can you not satisfy my mind intellectually by offering me a yoga-alternative for this?
Coming into touch with what you were before you were born, can give you a sense of what you will be after you die. Or to put it another way, coming into touch with what you have always been before the dawn of time, makes birth and death seem less relevant in the scale of things. You may find that it doesn't touch your being in the same way that it did before.
Christi
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2010 : 8:12:57 PM
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I have my floaters for more than a year. I don't have
any confidence in this weird ghee massaging thing. If this weird
yoga practise can really cure floaters I will give you a nice sum of money, this is not a joke. Not just a little sum, a real big sum
if you understand what I mean. If you don't care about money,
give it to charity. You will help thousands.
How can you see luminous beings with your third eye? What do you mean with that? Do you mean really existing luminous beings or some brain delusions? My question is, can you see external things with your third eye?
Yes, I was God before my birth. However, now I am a son of my parents
and a product of society. What will be left of my personality after I am death, nothing. I will become God again without any memory or brain to process the consciousness. Therefore I won't know about existance at all. Therefore, there will be nothing left of me.
Yoga is playing dirthy tricks. They say you have been "reincarnating".
Well no, not you. Some consciousness that is unaware of itself has been reincarnating. You are going to die and there will nothing be left of it.
Cheers
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 03:34:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thijs van der Wel
I have my floaters for more than a year. I don't have
any confidence in this weird ghee massaging thing. If this weird
yoga practise can really cure floaters I will give you a nice sum of money, this is not a joke. Not just a little sum, a real big sum
if you understand what I mean. If you don't care about money,
give it to charity. You will help thousands.
Well..I will help you for free,my good man.
Just put your right hand on your forehead for 10 minutes and say,,It's ok if I have these floaters..I am the pure spirit..,,
Then put your hands together(for 2 minutes,like in prayer)..and look around with relaxed view..remember anything you see,including the floaters,are like waves on the ocean...
Poof..now there are no floaters...relax your eyes..look at the sun,at the birds..relax your eyes,and make the vision wide..all is here.
Whom is looking?
No-one..yet you...where are the floaters now?
Well..did it help?
kisses..
Danny
ps..please explain the way you meditated,the routine I mean.I might be able to pinpoint the problems.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 05:54:15 AM
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Hi Thijs
quote:
How can you see luminous beings with your third eye? What do you mean with that? Do you mean really existing luminous beings or some brain delusions? My question is, can you see external things with your third eye?
I mean really existing luminous beings. These can be seen both within the physical body and external to the physical body. I believe Yogani talks about these beings in the Spinal Breathing Pranayama book (the one with the green cover on the right).
But the real purpose of developing and awakening the third eye is not to see beings existing in more refined dimensions. It is simply part of our unfolding spiritual awakening to a more evolved level of existence. One where joy is our natural state. It's there for all of us if we want it.
quote:
Yes, I was God before my birth. However, now I am a son of my parents
and a product of society. What will be left of my personality after I am death, nothing. I will become God again without any memory or brain to process the consciousness. Therefore I won't know about existance at all. Therefore, there will be nothing left of me.
One thing which happens with meditation is that we gradually begin to no longer identify our "self" with external objects. At first it is quite normal to identify ourselves with our body, or our parents (I am the son of...) or with our memories, or with our personality. Gradually all these things are seen to be external to who or what we really are. Gradually, as we continually let go of identification with the thought stream in meditation and come to rest in silence over and over again, we begin to see that what we have become accustomed to calling or "self" is in fact a collection of objects in our awareness. Our true Self, or our true nature is beyond all these things.
All of this cannot be "grasped" by the rational mind. It is an insufficient instrument for the task. It can only be known by going beyond the rational surface mind and diving into the depths of our being. Then the truth of these matters can be known. This knowing is called Jnana in Sanskrit, and the knowing of it is called Mukti, or liberation.
Yogani discusses the true nature of Self in the Self- Inquiry book (the one with the orange cover on the right)
All the best,
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 2:40:43 PM
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Hi Thijs,
p.s.
quote:
I have my floaters for more than a year.
I experienced floaters for around 5 years altogether, but not constantly. The other eye problems came and went over a period of about 10 years. I have not had any eye problems now for about 7 years. I didn't use any form of treatment as I thought that if it was the divine will that I should have eye problems then I should surrender to that.
It worked.
Christi
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 6:39:02 PM
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| If you mean by "floaters" little things like dust particles inside th eyeball that are visible occasionally, especially in peripheral vision, especially in sunlight, I think everybody has those. Or maybe you have them often, and a lot? |
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 04:28:25 AM
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Dudes, what I am trying to bring over is the following.
I was meditating a lot and my brain changed. I began to perceive
the universe like yogis do by constant repetition (meditation)
I began to lose my identification with my body. I began to loose interest in social contacts, work and so forth. I began to loose interest in my health. I just wanted to hypnotise myself that
I am not the body and that I am pure bliss consiousness.
However, meditation caused floaters in my eyes. This made life more miserable than it already was. Now I had to meditate even more to get rid of my bodily feelings. This increased my floaters even more. Therefore I had to stop meditation completely to stop getting more floaters.
You didn't get your body for nothing. You are here to enjoy the outward world with your body, don't deny it. Your body is objective and a product of your parents and society for which you have to do duties in return.
I am oke, don't worry about me. Care about your own body. If you want to care about me, tell me about someone who can show me paranormal things. I am a scientist now and I would look to measure if people can really show me paranormal things.
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 05:22:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
One thing which happens with meditation is that we gradually begin to no longer identify our "self" with external objects. At first it is quite normal to identify ourselves with our body, or our parents (I am the son of...) or with our memories, or with our personality. Gradually all these things are seen to be external to who or what we really are. Gradually, as we continually let go of identification with the thought stream in meditation and come to rest in silence over and over again, we begin to see that what we have become accustomed to calling or "self" is in fact a collection of objects in our awareness. Our true Self, or our true nature is beyond all these things.
All of this cannot be "grasped" by the rational mind. It is an insufficient instrument for the task. It can only be known by going beyond the rational surface mind and diving into the depths of our being. Then the truth of these matters can be known. This knowing is called Jnana in Sanskrit, and the knowing of it is called Mukti, or liberation.
Christi
Hi Christi..your words are the most exact and beautiful explaining about the relations between meditation and liberation I've ever read(and trust me..I read most of them)..
Can I post them on my blog?.. http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/
Much love to you..
Danny;)
ps..are those words from your own experience,or from other teachers?..you never cease to amaze me,Christi...maybe you are an angel indeed..because those words are true.If those words are yours.. then the true Guru in you(as Yogani loves to say,but he forgets that the Guru is also outside)was speaking. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 07:46:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thijs van der Wel
Dudes, what I am trying to bring over is the following.
I was meditating a lot and my brain changed. I began to perceive
the universe like yogis do by constant repetition (meditation)
I began to lose my identification with my body. I began to loose interest in social contacts, work and so forth. I began to loose interest in my health. I just wanted to hypnotise myself that
I am not the body and that I am pure bliss consiousness.
However, meditation caused floaters in my eyes. This made life more miserable than it already was. Now I had to meditate even more to get rid of my bodily feelings. This increased my floaters even more. Therefore I had to stop meditation completely to stop getting more floaters.
You didn't get your body for nothing. You are here to enjoy the outward world with your body, don't deny it. Your body is objective and a product of your parents and society for which you have to do duties in return.
I am oke, don't worry about me. Care about your own body. If you want to care about me, tell me about someone who can show me paranormal things. I am a scientist now and I would look to measure if people can really show me paranormal things.
It seems to me that you have a rather negative idea about what meditation means. If you were meditating in order to deny the world and your body, then you had the wrong approach. Anyone who tells you that you need to deny the world to meditate or be a spiritual person is a charlatan. Meditation should increase your ability to engage life; not decrease it. If meditation has harmed your life it is because of your own unhealthy approach to it. You yourself admitted that it was your "improper" meditation which lead to your problems. Repeatedly doing the same thing with improper technique is bound to end up in injury.
Think about what would happen if you threw a baseball 100,000 times with an improper grip. You would probably end up getting tendinitis or some other injury. That is just the way things work. Is it the ball's fault that you threw it wrong? You say that you began to perceive the world as yogis do, but every yogi and swami I can think of considers physical and mental health to up of the utmost importance. Certainly not to be neglected in preference of only "spiritual" development. The mind and body are spiritual as well.
Meditation, like many other things, can certainly lead to negative consequences if not undertaken in a healthy manner. If I were you, I would be looking at the underlying structures in my mind which made this unhealthy situation develop. Desperately hammering away at "the truth" with no regard for physical or mental health is a good way to end up in a psychiatric hospital. Where does this avoidance come from? Have you had problems with anxiety in the past? |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Apr 16 2010 08:51:20 AM |
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 12:12:49 PM
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A lot of yogis stress the miserableness of life and they say that yoga makes you health, but that is not the goal. My eyes have been hurt by meditation not just the approach to it. I think risk is involved for every meditator. However, we are going off topic. Who can show me that
yoga is not just brainwave alteration?
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Edited by - Thijs van der Wel on Apr 16 2010 12:17:29 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 12:32:26 PM
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Hi Danny
quote:
Hi Christi..your words are the most exact and beautiful explaining about the relations between meditation and liberation I've ever read(and trust me..I read most of them)..
Can I post them on my blog?.. http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/
Much love to you..
Danny;)
ps..are those words from your own experience,or from other teachers?..you never cease to amaze me,Christi...maybe you are an angel indeed..because those words are true.If those words are yours.. then the true Guru in you(as Yogani loves to say,but he forgets that the Guru is also outside)was speaking.
Thanks for the kind words. Please feel free to quote my post on your blog.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 12:46:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thijs van der Wel
Who can show me that yoga is not just brainwave alteration?
Only you can
Love!
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 12:54:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Thijs van der Wel
My eyes have been hurt by meditation not just the approach to it. I think risk is involved for every meditator. However, we are going off topic. Who can show me that
yoga is not just brainwave alteration?
You're not taking responsibility for your actions. Where is your own liability in the situation? Why is it unthinkable to you that it could not be the result of your own behavior? You need to carefully examine this point. |
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2010 : 3:54:21 PM
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I cannot do it anymore CarlsonZi because I am not
going to hurt my eyes.
Bad practise is what hurts many students, I am just
one of those bad practitioners. There are tons of stories
of wasted yogis who go mad because they "don't do it right"
or don't secure their bodily needs etcetera.
This is just one more thing, meditation probably increases
eye pressure which may lead to an increase in floaters.
To bad, I like meditation so much, especially with a sexual continent life!
Please, cannot one help me with my research that we are more than our bodies? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2010 : 04:26:32 AM
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Hi Thijs,
quote:
This is just one more thing, meditation probably increases
eye pressure which may lead to an increase in floaters.
To bad, I like meditation so much, especially with a sexual continent life!
Please, cannot one help me with my research that we are more than our bodies?
To be honest, without an effective spiritual practice in place, any talk of being more than the body, doesn't go very far.
If you let us know what spiritual practices and meditation techniques you have been using we may be able to advise you on how to proceed from here. How long have you practiced sexual continence (brahmacharya)?
Christi
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 12:42:37 PM
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Well, I have been living a continent life for more than two years now.
Although I usually have had a wet dream after two to four weeks retaining, even while meditating. I agree, it feels like we are more than the body, but who says that without the body end? Besides, even if we might be more than our body, we lose 99% of life without this body. |
Edited by - Thijs van der Wel on Apr 18 2010 2:40:39 PM |
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 4:19:37 PM
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As this transformation continues, we also begin to see beyond the body. We find that the spinal nerve doesn’t stop at the point between the eyebrows, but extends out far beyond it. As we observe this, our spinal breathing takes on a new dimension. The third eye opens!
This is rather vague. What does he mean? Please help me.. X Thijs |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2010 : 4:37:11 PM
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Hi Thijs,
quote:
Well, I have been living a continent life for more than two years now.
Although I usually have had a wet dream after two to four weeks retaining, even while meditating. I agree, it feels like we are more than the body, but who says that without the body end? Besides, even if we might be more than our body, we lose 99% of life without this body.
What other spiritual practices have you been doing which lead up to the problems you have been having with your eyes? How long each day did you practice for?
quote:
Yogani wrote:
As this transformation continues, we also begin to see beyond the body. We find that the spinal nerve doesn’t stop at the point between the eyebrows, but extends out far beyond it. As we observe this, our spinal breathing takes on a new dimension. The third eye opens!
Thijs Van Der Wel wrote:
This is rather vague. What does he mean? Please help me.. X Thijs
I don't think that is especially vague. It is a reference to something which is experienced as we continue to evolve with our practices. The Sushumna nadi (or spinal nerve) is seen to continue forward beyond the physical boundary of the body. This ties in with the opening of the third eye because, without the third eye open we can't see things which exist in subtle spiritual dimensions.
Superimposed within the physical body there are a number of more subtle bodies. These bodies exist in increasingly refined dimensions of existence. What we call the physical body is the most dense outer manifestation of these bodies. The physical body (and the entire physical universe) is actually a projection of the light of these more subtle dimensions and has no real existence independent of them. Science is moving in this direction fairly rapidly now (with the developments in quantum physics), but we don't need to wait for the scientists to catch up. The actuality of this is available to anyone who cares to embark on the spiritual path and dive deep into the true nature of reality.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Apr 21 2010 05:35:01 AM |
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 03:41:29 AM
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Thanks Christi, your answer makes sense to me.
I have been doing just meditation involving oceanic bliss
and stillness.
Christ, I see you are living in the United Kingdom. I live in the
Netherlands. What if I visit you, can you show me something?
Thijs |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 05:32:49 AM
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Hi Thijs,
quote:
Thanks Christi, your answer makes sense to me.
I have been doing just meditation involving oceanic bliss
and stillness.
I would recommend that if you restart your practice you cut down on the time you spend meditating each day to a level that is comfortable. This means cutting down the time until you are not experiencing excessive pressure in your head or eyes. You may find this lesson on self pacing useful.
quote:
Christ, I see you are living in the United Kingdom. I live in the
Netherlands. What if I visit you, can you show me something?
To be honest, I can't show you anything which is not in the main lessons on this website. If you are really interested in practicing yoga, I would recommend reading from the beginning here.
lesson 69 discusses excessive energy imbalances such as those that you have been experiencing and also talks about what to do about them.
All the best
Christi
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Thijs van der Wel
Netherlands
11 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 2:12:51 PM
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| Thanks for you help Christi and all the others too |
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hemanthks
Canada
59 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2010 : 12:23:05 AM
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Namaste,
I started doing meditation about 4 months back. Initially I was doing it once a day, and gradually increased it to twice a day (morning and evening) lasting about 15-20 min each session. From past two months or so I am experiencing light pressure in my forehead and also in my eyes. Pressure in eyes is constantly present (and also red most of the time) and is uncomfortable. I am bit worried now, how can I get rid of this? I just sit and start reciting a mantra mentally and try to focus on the mantra all the time. That's all I do.
Please help me.
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