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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 10:04:42 PM
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Hi,
During this morning's meditation's spinal breathing, something shifted. Usually, during spinal breathing, my witness/awareness has the point of view that it is located up and ahead of the spine. That is, it is like the center of me is somewhere in the head around the medulla and when you send your attention up and down the spine during spinal breathing, it is as if you are just ahead and above of the spine/sushumna and you are looking down at it from the exterior.
From this exterior perspective, the sushumna looks like a pink/blue/whitish colored straw about 1/4 inch thick and it has bends in it or knots around a location in the lower abdomen and the heart (that I can see).
What happened this morning is that instead of having the usual perspective of viewing the sushumna from that angle, something inside me shifted and my perception started telecoping up and down the interior of the sushumna. It is like I can push my awareness up and down directly from the inside of the sushumna instead of being on the outside. Further, I could not find an angled junction that led to the third eye by the brows. It went straight up.
When it first happened I thought it was really neat. The sushumna opened up about 2 inches thick and it was like being in an elevator with my awareness, travelling directly up and down. It was no longer me sending my attention up and down, it was like the pictures or visual field was changing but "I" was remaining constant. I could see slices of body parts as my focus of awareness went up and down or what seemed to be more in and out. I had to struggle a bit to maintain that new perspective but towards the end of the SB session I had it down pretty good.
During this afternoon's meditation's spinal breathing a new and exciting phenomenon appeared. Where do I begin?
When I looked down to start spinal breathing, there was no more sushumna, or rather, the sushumna was about 10 inches wide. It was transparent but I could see fine lines of light defining the enlargened hollow tube or shaft. I had turned into a jelly fish of light! There was no more body. It was as though I was floating in space and I had become just a point of view with a translucent wrap surrounding me.
Determined to perform spinal breathing, I took my attention from the bottom of that open-ended transparent tunnel and brought it to the top. At the top of the sushumna, there was no more top, no more physical head, only an opening into space. The opening kind of fanned out and wrapped around the top of my head like I had become a huge magnetic field. I searched for the spinal nerve which should have been towards my third eye but it was not there. I think it was there but in a different plane because I made an effort to see it and I remembered an image of it but I decided not to force anything so I let it go.
I kept on with the spinal breathing, going up and down but it seemed really stupid to do this. I mean, I moved my attention to the bottom and there is nothing but a widening hole and nothing but space beyond it. The whole sushumna was transparent and I could see space and fine colors or very dim lights in the far background. Like being in the void. As I brought my attention up, there was really nothing to see other than that space and dim lights. At the top the fine filament lighted strands of the sushumna started bending outwards like they were wrapping around what was left of me.
I did the spinal breathing for about 10 minutes like that but I kept asking myself, why am I doing this? What is going on here? I had become some kind of light/energy field suspended in space? Is there any point to spinal breathing after you've become a transluscent field of energy/light that resembles a magnetic field with the poles on each end? What are you supposed to do next?
Has anyone else had this experience? Is that what Yogani means by the sushumna eventually expands?
Hopefully someone here has had the same experience. It would sure be nice to hear from you. :)
Thanks.
:)
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Dec 23 2009 10:08:38 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 12:07:54 PM
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Hi TI...
You might not want to hear this, but, "It's all scenery"....don't get attached to it, and don't try to figure it out.
I would say, although I can't know this, that this is how you experience the expanded sushumna nadi. And eventually it will get even bigger...it will encompass the entire universe and more. In Lesson 52 Yogani says "It is a very big little nerve. An amazing paradox. The inner dimension of it contains galaxies."
This is a natural part of the purification of the sushumna nadi and it is a good thing. It is also a good thing to just continue with Spinal Breathing as Yogani instructs, and not get too caught up in the scenery. As Lesson 94 says "If you are doing spinal breathing and, as you come up to the third eye on inhalation, your ishta (your chosen ideal – Jesus, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, Mother Divine, etc.) comes galloping up to you in a golden chariot, beckoning you to climb in and go for a ride, what do you do? You easily exhale and go back down the spinal nerve." Enjoy the fact that your sushumna is expanding, but don't get attached to any particular perspective of it as that will slow down progress. Allow things to be as they are and continue doing your practices without trying to understand everything with the mind....be easy with yourself and let the chips fall where they may.
Sorry if this was not the answer you were looking for....it's all I got
Hope you and All have a wonderful holiday season.
Love,
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 6:35:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi TI...
You might not want to hear this, but, "It's all scenery"....don't get attached to it, and don't try to figure it out.
I would say, although I can't know this, that this is how you experience the expanded sushumna nadi. And eventually it will get even bigger...it will encompass the entire universe and more. In Lesson 52 Yogani says "It is a very big little nerve. An amazing paradox. The inner dimension of it contains galaxies."
This is a natural part of the purification of the sushumna nadi and it is a good thing. It is also a good thing to just continue with Spinal Breathing as Yogani instructs, and not get too caught up in the scenery. As Lesson 94 says "If you are doing spinal breathing and, as you come up to the third eye on inhalation, your ishta (your chosen ideal – Jesus, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, Mother Divine, etc.) comes galloping up to you in a golden chariot, beckoning you to climb in and go for a ride, what do you do? You easily exhale and go back down the spinal nerve." Enjoy the fact that your sushumna is expanding, but don't get attached to any particular perspective of it as that will slow down progress. Allow things to be as they are and continue doing your practices without trying to understand everything with the mind....be easy with yourself and let the chips fall where they may.
Sorry if this was not the answer you were looking for....it's all I got
Hope you and All have a wonderful holiday season.
Love,
Hi Carson, :)
Well thanks for trying.. I think I've voiced my opinions about 'scenery' before and I see no need to go into that discussion again. And, if I see Jesus, I stop everything out of love and respect. To me, Jesus comes before practices and if he ever interrupted my practices there would be a very good reason for it.. :)
This event (that I wrote about) caused me to re-read Yogani's "Spinal Breathing Pranayama" book and I did find a part in there about the Heart Space (as well as the expansion of the sushumna).
It is very interesting to be able to recognize this space and actually see the top and bottom of the sushumna from it (if that is actually what is happening), how it opens at the ends and encircles the 'jelly fish' me, how the sushumna is transparent and how we are really just a spec of consciousness floating in a huge space.
The other interesting thing is that a slight shift in perspective, which is changing from the external point of view to the internal (perception from inside the sushmuna, as though one were looking right down into it) seems to be the key to producing this experience. I wonder if I am shifting into Heart perception/consciousness mode..
I was better at doing that yesterday than today, but somewhat succeeded today also for short time periods. I think this is due to having done 17 minutes of slow breathing (1919) a few hours before the meditation session while seated at my desk yesterday, but I did not do that today because I am having some overload symptoms (nothing too serious)..
If anyone else has experienced this phenomenon of viewing from inside the sushumna, I'd love to hear about it.
:)
TI |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 7:11:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Well thanks for trying..
You're welcome. Merry Christmas.
Love,
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2009 : 4:17:09 PM
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Hi TI,
It sounds like you entered the Brahma nadi. The Brahma nadi is a nadi which runs up the spine inside the sushumna nadi. At around the pineal gland in the centre of the head the Brahma nadi leaves the sushumna nadi and goes out of the top of the head (crown). The sushumna nadi carries on forward through the third eye.
So when practicing spinal breathing pranayama, if this is happening, then you would notice that you are off the procedure and go back to tracing the sushumna nadi between the muladhara chakra and the ajna chakra (or out beyond the ajna towards the realms of infinite white light, if you are being drawn there naturally).
Both the root chakra and the ajna chakra are energy dynamics so the fact that there is nothing solid which is perceivable at either end is not a problem to the procedure.
Hope this helps,
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Dec 25 2009 5:30:44 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2009 : 7:20:13 PM
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Hi Christi and Merry Christmas Everyone :)
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TI,
It sounds like you entered the Brahma nadi. The Brahma nadi is a nadi which runs up the spine inside the sushumna nadi. At around the pineal gland in the centre of the head the Brahma nadi leaves the sushumna nadi and goes out of the top of the head (crown). The sushumna nadi carries on forward through the third eye.
So when practicing spinal breathing pranayama, if this is happening, then you would notice that you are off the procedure and go back to tracing the sushumna nadi between the muladhara chakra and the ajna chakra (or out beyond the ajna towards the realms of infinite white light, if you are being drawn there naturally).
Both the root chakra and the ajna chakra are energy dynamics so the fact that there is nothing solid which is perceivable at either end is not a problem to the procedure.
Hope this helps,
Christi
That's funny. I see you've edited your response. :)
I just spent an hour researching the amitra nadi and the one description I could find that resembles it is Ramana's pillar of light:
link:
quote:
From the biography of Sri Matha:
Sri Matha was a Bhakta-Jnani, an incarnation who, according to the biography, Ramana considered a born Jnani and to whom he was just the Causal (Karana) Guru. Her enlightenment experience confirms Ramana's description and includes realization of the One, Universal, Transcendental Self as Heart-Light and Amrita Nadi as a "pillar of light", rising up to the sahasrara and above, as described by Ramana.
Perhaps there is a difference in terminology because what I see does resemble a pillar of translucent light which is open on each end..
So now I am researching the Brahma nadi, it seems to be the central channel that kundalini rises up into..
link: http://www.triyoga.com/Kali_Devi_La...IYA_YOGA.pdf
quote:
The cakras are strung on this nadi. Located inside the trinity
nadis, is brahma-nadi, the one supreme nadi that is beyond the gunas’ triple
energy. It is without attributes and colorless, yet it represents all divine qualities
and light. From ajna cakra to sahasrara cakra, it is through this nadi that
kundalini flows into brahma-randhra, the meeting place of shakti (energy) and
shiva (pure consciousness).
You know, Christi, I've often wondered if the sushumna goes out through the third eye, or continues up through the sahasrara.. If you ever listen to Mark Griffin's "The Guru Radar" talk, he claims that the sushumna extends for another three feet above the head. (If you are interested here is the link: http://www.hardlight.org/store/guru...r-p-792.html )
Yet, Edgar cayce says that the top of the sushumna is actually the third eye at the brow which he calls the "Seventh Center":
link: http://www.edgarcayce.org/ps2/seven...n_Auken.html
quote:
Seventh Center Pituitary Gland Third-Eye Chakra
...
Cayce’s readings identify this center as the third eye, on the forehead. Almost all yoga books identify the third eye as the sixth chakra and the crown as the seventh. When Cayce was asked about this during a reading, his reply was that he did not care what others were saying, but he was giving the correct arrangement.
And then, from Gurudeva:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-41.html
quote:
Friday
LESSON 285
Divine Sight And Illumination
The sixth force center is ajna, or the third eye. Ajna chakra means "command center" and grants direct experience of the Divine, not through any knowledge passed on by others, which would be like the knowledge found in books. Magnetized to the cavernous plexus and to the pineal gland and located between the brows, the ajna chakra governs the superconscious faculties of divine sight within man. Its color is lavender. Of its two "petals" or facets one is the ability to look down, all the way down, to the seven talas, or states of mind, below the muladhara and the other is the ability to perceive the higher, spiritual states of consciousness, all the way up to the seven chakras above the sahasrara. Thus, ajna looks into both worlds: the odic astral world, or Antarloka, and the actinic spiritual world, or Sivaloka. It, therefore, is the connecting link, allowing the jnani to relate the highest consciousness to the lowest, in a unified vision. This center opens fully to the conscious use of man after many experiences of nirvikalpa samadhi, Self Realization, resulting in total transformation, have been attained, although visionary insights and, particularly, inner light experiences are possible earlier.
And in this last quote, he says something that implies that there are seven chakras above the sahasrara! (I've bolded it..) So there must be a 'sushumna' type construction that extends far above the head. I suppose in the final analysis some people might say that it really doesn't matter, but what if it does matter? Probably, from my perspective at this point in time, it doesn't matter. It is fun knowing that I'm unlocking some of the mysteries of yoga.. :)
And yes, I will continue on with Spinal Breathing, only now I have two methods of moving awareness up and down the spine/sushumna. One is from the outside looking in and the other is from the inside looking out..
Thanks again for your reply.
:)
TI
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 07:37:06 AM
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Quote:
Adi Da, in his autobiography, revealed an extraordinary and transformative yogic experience... after this experience he felt as if he had been liberated from identification with the chakra system and its polarization of ascending and descending energies. He claims to have seen that the chakra system from the point of view of the Heart was an arbitrary and unnecessary structure for the play of energy.
"The Shakti, which previously had appeared as a polarized energy that moved up and down through the various chakras or centers producing various effects, now was released from the chakra form. There was no more polarized force. Indeed, there was no form whatsoever, no up or down, no chakras. The chakra system had been revealed as unnecessary, an arbitrary rule or setting for the play of energy. The form beneath all of the bodies, gross or subtle, had revealed itself to be as unnecessary and conditional as the bodies themselves...Consciousness had shown its radical freedom and priority in terms of the chakra form. It had shown itself to be senior to that whole structure, dissociated from every kind of separate energy or shakti. There was simply consciousness itself, prior to all forms, all dilemmas, every kind of seeking and necessity."
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/kundalini.html (Had this link from your earlier post  )
Keeping yer pipes clean eh |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 11:13:39 AM
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Hi TI,
quote:
That's funny. I see you've edited your response. :)
I just spent an hour researching the amitra nadi and the one description I could find that resembles it is Ramana's pillar of light:
link:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the biography of Sri Matha:
Sri Matha was a Bhakta-Jnani, an incarnation who, according to the biography, Ramana considered a born Jnani and to whom he was just the Causal (Karana) Guru. Her enlightenment experience confirms Ramana's description and includes realization of the One, Universal, Transcendental Self as Heart-Light and Amrita Nadi as a "pillar of light", rising up to the sahasrara and above, as described by Ramana.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure you didn't waste an hour.
At first I thought it sounded like the amrita nadi, but after some reflection I thought it sounded more like the Brahma nadi, so I edited my reply accordingly. Both the Brahma nadi and the amrita nadi rise up through the sahasrara. One difference between them is that the root of the Brahma nadi is in the muladhara, like the sushumna, whereas the root of the amrita nadi is at the sacred heart, which is to the right of the heart chakra.
quote:
You know, Christi, I've often wondered if the sushumna goes out through the third eye, or continues up through the sahasrara..
That depends on what you call the sushumna nadi. Some people would say that it is both. In the main lessons Yogani describes the sushumna as rising up to the centre of the head, and then going forward through the ajna chakra. Then he goes on to say that the sushumna nadi has a fork in it, with one branch of the fork going up through the crown chakra and up into the air above the head.
So if we are using simplified terminology (as Yogani does in the main lessons), then we can talk about the sushumna as going out in both directions (ajna and crown).
If we are using slightly more complex terminology (as some people do) then we would say that the sushumna goes through the ajna, and it is the Brahman nadi rising up within the sushumna which goes out through the crown.
With root to brow spinal breathing pranayama, it doesn't make a lot of difference what we call the sushumna, as the practice is to trace the silver thread between the root chakra and the brow chakra following the breath.
The sushumna and the ajna chakra are the gateway to Christ consciousness. The crown chakra and the Brahma nadi are the gateway to Cosmic consciousness and nirvikalpa samadhi. The amrita nadi is the gateway to the sacred heart, and the culmination of our Yoga.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 11:28:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Quote:
Adi Da, in his autobiography, revealed an extraordinary and transformative yogic experience... after this experience he felt as if he had been liberated from identification with the chakra system and its polarization of ascending and descending energies. He claims to have seen that the chakra system from the point of view of the Heart was an arbitrary and unnecessary structure for the play of energy.
"The Shakti, which previously had appeared as a polarized energy that moved up and down through the various chakras or centers producing various effects, now was released from the chakra form. There was no more polarized force. Indeed, there was no form whatsoever, no up or down, no chakras. The chakra system had been revealed as unnecessary, an arbitrary rule or setting for the play of energy. The form beneath all of the bodies, gross or subtle, had revealed itself to be as unnecessary and conditional as the bodies themselves...Consciousness had shown its radical freedom and priority in terms of the chakra form. It had shown itself to be senior to that whole structure, dissociated from every kind of separate energy or shakti. There was simply consciousness itself, prior to all forms, all dilemmas, every kind of seeking and necessity."
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/kundalini.html (Had this link from your earlier post )
Keeping yer pipes clean eh
Hi Manigma,
Yogani gives a description of this process of entering the sacred heart in the main lessons:
"So the heart is opening all the time, along with the rest of the nervous system. Then ecstatic conductivity begins to rise and we are melting in love inside in the face of so much ecstasy and rising inner sensuality – more heart opening. Finally, when shiva (silence) and shakti (ecstasy) are merging and we finally go directly to the crown, then it all pours down and the heart goes all the way into overflowing pure divine love. Maybe that last step is what is meant by "the heart is last to open." But the truth is, yoga begins with the heart, the heart is opening every step of the way, and it ends with the heart, as we finally become an expression of divine love on earth."
http://www.aypsite.org/201.html
In AYP of course, the chakra system is not considered to be an arbitrary and unnecessary system underlying the various bodies. It is seen as our gateway to the divine. It may be true that ultimately it is transcended, but without it, even Adi Da would not have entered the experience of the sacred heart.
Christi |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 2:08:52 PM
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TI,
You may enjoy reading 'The Building of the Antakarana and Rainbow Bridge' by Joshua David Stone which provides information and similar perspective as theosophy and the Alice Baily writings on the sushumna, antakarana and sutratma, their building and relationships.
www.lilyandbeyond.org-a.goog...m/JDStone.pdf
Steve |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 3:18:21 PM
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Hi Christi :)
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I'm sure you didn't waste an hour.
OH NO! I certainly appreciate it! I wasn't even aware that there was an amrita nadi but the thing that made me wonder was that the amrita nadi is supposed to curve in an 'S' type of shape and what I can see now is absolutely straight up and down.
quote:
At first I thought it sounded like the amrita nadi, but after some reflection I thought it sounded more like the Brahman nadi, so I edited my reply accordingly. Both the Brahman nadi and the amrita nadi rise up through the sahasrara. One difference between them is that the root of the Brahman nadi is in the muladhara, like the sushumna, whereas the root of the amrita nadi is at the sacred heart, which is to the right of the heart chakra.
Thank you for reaffirming that. Isn't the amrita channel the one that is viewed as the nectar of the Gods, that which grants immortality and is like the river of life? Isn't it amazing how the heart seems to be the center of everything? In this new book that I have from Richard Bartlett, called "The Physics of Miracles" he says that the most important thing, the thing that is key to producing all the miracles is the dropping down into the heart space to gain access to the Matrix.
quote:
With root to brow spinal breathing pranayama, it doesn't make a lot of difference what we call the sushumna, as the practice is to trace the silver thread between the root chakra and the brow chakra following the breath.
There is no more silver thread to trace. Just this hollow tube of light that is about 1 foot wide now so I send my attention up and down that. It is very funny, but reality or planes of consciousness seem to be in the slices of visions in between the two holes at the top and the bottom, where the chakras should be.
quote:
The sushumna and the ajna chakra are the gateway to Christ consciousness.
Christi
Sometimes I wonder if Christ Consciousness is to be taken literally.
I just have to say! Jesus visited me on Christmas eve! He was dressed all in his red robes and he was looking quite majestic and powerful, in exquisite detail. He stayed for quite a while (over 10 minutes). He appeared to me before my afternoon meditation and it took me by surprise. I didn't know what to say... so I didn't say anything except "I love you". Then I had the distinct impression that he was granting me another step up the golden ladder as a Christmas gift but that I wouldn't understand or realize it for a while, for maybe three weeks.. Just having him visit me unannounced in full dress and splendour was gift enough! What a wonderful Christmas!
My meditations have taken a real twist. They are so deep now that it is like entering a different plane. It feels like I'm in a whole different universe, one that is silent and very far away from this reality. At one point, during yesterday's afternoon meditation, my awareness came back to the body for a few seconds and I noticed that I was no longer breathing and when I noticed that, I really didn't care. It was as though the cartoon world where those kind of things matter had finally left me. It is kind of hard to explain. It's kind of like knowing that this reality is a noisy dream and that I now have a way out of it.
What I am doing for my meditation is saying "AYAM", treating it with the meaning and intent like it is the name of God and then holding it in my awareness as a visual word next to the clump of multi-colored light that seems to contain all realities inside it, inside the cave in the center of my head, or more towards the top. I hold this vision in my awareness like you are holding a thought in mind, like you can taste it and examine it. When it finally dissolves, or a strong thought overpowers me, I repeat the mantra and do that over again. Then, I'm gone.. :)
quote:
The crown chakra and the Brahman nadi are the gateway to Cosmic consciousness and nirvikalpa samadhi. The amrita nadi is the gateway to the sacred heart, and the culmination of our Yoga.
This is interesting. You know, up until a few days ago, I had always read that the heart was the final resting place of kundalini. (Ramana, Yogani..) However, Gurudeva does write that you have a choice of where kundalini, once taken above the crown, will come back to reside.
He says:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-49.html
quote:
Saturday
LESSON 342
To Stay Enlightened
A sannyasin of attainment has had many, many lifetimes of accumulating this power of kundalini to break that seal at the door of Brahman. Here is a key factor. Once it is broken, the seal never mends. Once it is gone, it's gone. Then the kundalini will come back -- and this gives you a choice between upadeshi and nirvani -- and coil in the svadhishthana, manipura, anahata, wherever it finds a receptive chakra, where consciousness has been developed, wherever it is warm. A great intellect or a siddha who finds the Self might return to the center of cognition; another might return to the manipura chakra. The ultimate is to have the kundalini coiled in the sahasrara.
I personally didn't manage that until 1968 or '69 when I had a series of powerful experiences of kundalini in the sahasrara. It took twenty years of constant daily practice of tough sadhanas and tapas. I was told early on that much of the beginning training was had in a previous life and that is why, with the realization in this life, I would be able to sustain all that has manifested around me and within me as the years passed by. Results of sadhanas came to me with a lot of concentrated effort, to be sure, but it was not difficult, and that is what makes me think that previous results were being rekindled.
This is the only other time I have found an elaboration on the 'final resting place of kundalini'. "Where ever it is warm"... I guess if I had a choice between forty-below (like it was here a few weeks ago) and the bahamas I'd choose the bahamas too!
I guess that is why Gurudeva lived in Kauai. :) Is that why he looks so happy? (He is on the left, with the long white beard.. a couple of happy monks, eh? )
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/
:)
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 3:39:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
TI,
You may enjoy reading 'The Building of the Antakarana and Rainbow Bridge' by Joshua David Stone which provides information and similar perspective as theosophy and the Alice Baily writings on the sushumna, antakarana and sutratma, their building and relationships.
www.lilyandbeyond.org-a.goog...m/JDStone.pdf
Steve
Hey Steve :)
Thanks for that link.
It was interesting to read this:
quote:
The Central Canal
The central canal is a term that refers to the column of energy that extends from the base of the
spine to the top of the head. It has sometimes been referred to as the chakra column, or sushumna.
It is a part of the sutratma, silver cord, and life thread which are all different names for the same
cord.
One of the very important practices of the spiritual path is to widen your central canal and clear it
of all psychic debris. Ideally the central canal can be widened into a column of light that is the size
of the circumference of your head. Most people's central canal is a very small tube, and is very
clogged like a bathroom pipe that is not working effectively.
You know, Richard Bartlett talks about how to build psychic abilities by first imagining them, working with them and building them until finally the real thing manifests too. This is in the "The Physics of Miracles" book. I had no idea that you could build these things, I always thought that they existed in reality and one just had to tap into them. It certainly is a new perspective and it could be valid and very helpful for someone who wished to develop abilities.
The other point of view is that we are a conglomerate of unity consciousness and we have created these thought forms and as such, anybody can tie into them and then use them. Perhaps by reading about other people's experiencing and 'believing' them, that is precisely what we are doing..
Personally, I like the aspect of discovering new and exciting things as if they exist in reality and have existed without unity consciousness creating them as group thought forms. However, the understanding of quantum physics, thought forms and reality is beyond my understanding at this time.
Thanks for the insight.
:)
TI |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 4:48:12 PM
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Hi TI,
quote:
OH NO! I certainly appreciate it! I wasn't even aware that there was an amrita nadi but the thing that made me wonder was that the amrita nadi is supposed to curve in an 'S' type of shape and what I can see now is absolutely straight up and down.
I have never noticed the amrita nadi having an "s" shaped curve, but then, I have never seen it too clearly. But other aspects of your description would point to the Brahman nadi, including the rays of light curving outwards in different directions from the crown.
quote:
There is no more silver thread to trace. Just this hollow tube of light that is about 1 foot wide now so I send my attention up and down that.
The silver thread is a hollow tube of light! How big it looks depends on whether you are on the inside, or the outside (as you have noticed), and on how expanded it has become, as Carson mentioned above.
quote:
Sometimes I wonder if Christ Consciousness is to be taken literally.
That's beautiful that you were visited by Jesus. As I understand it though, Christ consciousness is when we attain the Christed state, as Jesus did. It is about bringing the light of heaven to earth and transforming the light of this world into the light of the higher worlds.
Yogani mentions it here:
"Enlightenment is not about running off to heaven and leaving an unpurified nervous system behind that we will have to come back to and finish later in another life. It is about doing the work of completely purifying the nervous system. Then we have it all, become it all, heaven, earth, the cosmos, LA, everything. Then we become an expression of heaven on earth, and can do much for others who are expressions of heaven also, just needing a good housecleaning to realize it. So, it is not about going off into the star. It is about bringing the star in here, into the earth plane. That we do by purifying and opening the nervous system."
http://www.aypsite.org/92.html
quote:
This is interesting. You know, up until a few days ago, I had always read that the heart was the final resting place of kundalini. (Ramana, Yogani..) However, Gurudeva does write that you have a choice of where kundalini, once taken above the crown, will come back to reside.
I think Gurudeva is talking about an earlier stage of the process of kundalini here. It can happen that kundalini rises to pierce the crown chakra, and then returns to a lower chakra. From there, with continued spiritual practice it will rise again through the chakras until it resides at the crown chakra. This is often held to be the final resting place of kundalini and the highest goal in Yoga. The melting into the heart is, I believe, a stage beyond that.
Christi |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 4:51:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Is that why he looks so happy? (He is on the left, with the long white beard.. a couple of happy monks, eh? )
Hi TI,
I can't help but smile every time I see that picture
BTW, I want to thank you for all the Gurudeva quotes you've been posting lately. His writings resonate with me, so I've been following the daily lessons for a few weeks. That website has a great collection of writings.
Thanks!
With Love
cosmic |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 6:52:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Quote:
Adi Da, in his autobiography, revealed an extraordinary and transformative yogic experience... after this experience he felt as if he had been liberated from identification with the chakra system and its polarization of ascending and descending energies. He claims to have seen that the chakra system from the point of view of the Heart was an arbitrary and unnecessary structure for the play of energy.
"The Shakti, which previously had appeared as a polarized energy that moved up and down through the various chakras or centers producing various effects, now was released from the chakra form. There was no more polarized force. Indeed, there was no form whatsoever, no up or down, no chakras. The chakra system had been revealed as unnecessary, an arbitrary rule or setting for the play of energy. The form beneath all of the bodies, gross or subtle, had revealed itself to be as unnecessary and conditional as the bodies themselves...Consciousness had shown its radical freedom and priority in terms of the chakra form. It had shown itself to be senior to that whole structure, dissociated from every kind of separate energy or shakti. There was simply consciousness itself, prior to all forms, all dilemmas, every kind of seeking and necessity."
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/kundalini.html (Had this link from your earlier post )
Keeping yer pipes clean eh
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for posting this. That link is a good one, lots of information there.
I think I can identify with what he says because when I am in the 'tunnel or tube' I notice a number of things now: For one, there is no more ecstatic conductivity or physical sensations of any kind. I can't even find the perineum unless I pull myself out and adopt the conventional point of view..
There doesn't seem to be any prana following my attention up and down anymore. There is no resistance in there, it kind of feels like you are in a vacuum of sorts surrounded by an even larger vacuum. It also feels like the body and all the coarser substances are gone. It is like floating in space in a jelly fish body of light or long magnetic tube with light shows on the inside between the ends. I also seem to stop or don't go any further than the ends where it opens up into space. Every time I get close to the ends, I feel this kind of rollercoaster sensation that might even be fear but I don't feel afraid. It is more like my jelly fish has it's own gravity and it keeps "me" in. Actually, I haven't tried catapulting myself out in space from there. Hmmm. Might be something to try..
Thanks again for your input. :)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2009 : 7:44:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Is that why he looks so happy? (He is on the left, with the long white beard.. a couple of happy monks, eh? )
Hi TI,
I can't help but smile every time I see that picture
BTW, I want to thank you for all the Gurudeva quotes you've been posting lately. His writings resonate with me, so I've been following the daily lessons for a few weeks. That website has a great collection of writings.
Thanks!
With Love
cosmic
Hi Cosmic :)
Yes, in that picture they seem truly happy! It is so nice to see that!
Thanks for mentioning that about the posts. You're welcome.
The "Merging with Siva" book is a fascinating book, so full of answers about anything you wanted to know about kundalini, chakras, the light etc.. I'm glad that you are finding value there.
Here is an interesting statement from the "Merging With Siva" book:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...anto-08.html
quote:
THE SIXTIETH APHORISM
The kundalini does not begin its activity through the sushumna until the ida (negative) and pingala (positive) have preceded it by forming a positive and negative current along the spinal cord powerful enough to awaken the sixth chakra -- ajna. The first chakra then awakens in its entirety as the kundalini force is drawn through the sushumna, stimulating each chakra in turn, concluding with the unfoldment of the sahasrara center in the brain.
For many reasons, that one statement resonates with me on so many levels. For one, Spinal Breathing (slowing the breath and tracing the routes with attention) would not only serve to clear the channels, it would also serve to make the ida and pingala currents stronger. This makes sense to me. Purification, as Yogani calls it, would make those channels stronger and more powerful.
And again, the idea that "when the ida and pingala are balanced and powerful enough, the ajna (third eye) opens" is a type of confirmation of the procedural steps in opening. It also shows the importance of having the ajna active in order to arouse the kundalini.
:)
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Dec 26 2009 7:50:06 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2009 : 7:14:15 PM
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Hi TI,
You may find this lesson of interest:
http://www.aypsite.org/90.html
Yogani discusses some of the aspects of the sushumna that you have brought up here, including the expansion aspect, and also the relationship between the purification of the sushumna and the ida and pingala nadis.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Dec 27 2009 7:31:07 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2009 : 11:41:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TI,
You may find this lesson of interest:
http://www.aypsite.org/90.html
Yogani discusses some of the aspects of the sushumna that you have brought up here, including the expansion aspect, and also the relationship between the purification of the sushumna and the ida and pingala nadis.
Christi
Hi Christi, :)
That lesson is quite interesting to me, and it certainly does describe the expansion of the sushumna. So I guess I've reached a milestone.. Do I sound disconcerted? Well, it's taking a while to get used to having so much "space" during practices..
But now I have all sorts of questions.. It seems that Yogani's method/teachings is to awaken the sushumna first and as the sushumna expands it then awakens the psychic/etheric counterpart of the ida and pingala. Hmm.. I wonder what the difference is between an active ida and pingala in the physical body and the kundalini-activated ida and pingala.
So now, the questions. The first one that comes to mind is that I have read in many places that the activation of the sushumna comes about by balancing or collapsing the ida and pingala channels first. This is seen on many youtube videos, at the swamij website http://www.swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-4.htm and in many other books and teachings.
So, is Yogani's order of awakening opposite to these systems?
Now, meaning no disrepect to Yogani, he does say that
quote:
Not all approaches to yoga are like this. Some aim to awaken the sushumna straight away, before any significant amount of meditation is done. Others work to balance the ida and pingala first, and then enter the sushumna after that. Others work directly on the chakras first. Whatever the particular approach may be, the final outcome will be the same, a fully awakened nervous system, expanding in radiant ecstasy far beyond the confines of the physical body. All roads lead home, though the routes taken can vary considerably.
This is somewhat disconcerting to me. I would have expected a congruence and cohesiveness in 'methodologies to awaken kundalini' as well as the effects of an active sushumna. Further, I thought it was ida and pingala that were creating the knots around the sushumna, so how could the sushumna become clear without first untying the knots by working with ida and pingala?
Even most buddhist meditation manuals talk about bringing the winds into the central channel to dissolve them and stop the corresponding mind components, but ida and pingala (left and right channels) are restricting the vertical flow.
link: http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N79_4.html
quote:
The right channel and left channel wrap around the central channel at certain places, constricting it such that the winds cannot pass through it. In the Guhyasamãja system, the central channel is said to have seven loci of constriction; they are called channel-wheels because many smaller channels branch out of them like the spokes of a wheel, and they are also called channel-knots because of being places of constriction.
If the winds are dissolved in the central channel, how can they be circulating in ida and pingala as Yogani describes?
link: Lesson 90 : http://www.aypsite.org/90.html
quote:
So what does this mean in terms of experiencing the ida and pingala? As these two nerves are awakened by the expansion of the sushumna. They also expand beyond the physical nerves, and are seen to be like whips of ecstatic energy moving out in loops around the spine. They are not doing this statically in one place. They are moving, swirling, so one can barely tell left from right. One is hot, the other cold, and this gives rise to the sensations of heat and cold coexisting in the body. There is a helix-like effect. Imagine a swirling column of ecstatic energy emanating from the center of your spine expanding outward. This is the sushumna. Now imagine it being surrounded by swirling whips of ecstatic energy. These are ida and pingala.
Further, it seems to be a common idea that balancing the in-breath and the out breath are key to balancing ida and pingala, thereby loosening the knots that they form around the central channel:
link: http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N79_4.html
quote:
The sign that winds have entered the central channel is that the pressure of exhalation and inhalation is equal and that the volume and pressure of air moving in each nostril is equal, whereas normally there are various imbalances in the breath. As more winds enter the central channel, breathing becomes progressively weaker and finally ceases altogether.
Point noted: This expansion of the central channel did not start to occur for me until I started practicing a breathing routine of 1-9-1-9 during spinal breathing so I'm tending to believe that strictly regulated breath control is definately intrinsic to central channel/sushumna expansion.
But that said, you know, I really don't know if the expansion of the sushumna is a cumulative effect, or whether or not it has something to do with my sending prana from the lower tan tien to the perineum and then up the spine (because that really enhances the ecstatic conductivity) or just what has taken place. I do know that I've been practicing spinal breathing for 2 1/2 years now...
I do believe that Yogani has simplified some practices to enable the general population of the bell curve to be able to gain a solid foundation in the practices of yoga and I hope that these simplifications have a positive effect.
But I must admit, whenever I learn about or read about controlling the breath during meditation, I'm kind of at a loss. Is it true that, as Yogani states, it is easier to go deeper if you don't try to control the breathing? I can see that, from Yogani's point of view, if you do not perform breath control, there is little chance of mingling kundalini with deep meditation. Perhaps that is an aid to establishing deep silence without the interference of kundalini rising?
It makes me wonder. For example, Mark Griffin's meditations all start with "Starting the deep bellows breath breathing style" and continuing throughout the meditation. And, some of Gurudeva's meditations consist of sitting in full lotus, starting up the 1-9-1-9 breathing cycle and then listening to the nada in both ears.. The book called "The Complete Yoga Book" by James Hewitt (which I've owned since 1972) states that
quote:
In Sun and Moon breathing the positive and negative pranic currents are harmonized and equalized, and the technique of alternate nostril breathing has a role in esoteric Yoga connected with the movements of psychic nerve-force within the body.
It also says
quote:
When the system of the Nadis becomes clear of the impurities by properly controlling the prana, then the air, piercing the entrance of the Sushumna [spinal channel], enters it easily.
Again, you have the idea that the in breath and out breath are 'equalized'. Is this not the equalization of ida and pingala which in turns loosens the knots?
So I'm at a loss..
Mind you, I have also read that sometimes when kundalini is activated, it rises up and pierces it's way through the knots. So perhaps there is no 'one truth' or one commonly accepted procedure. It's like I've learned, you can find anything you'd like to hear somewhere on the internet. I guess that's one danger of the information age.. :)
It would be nice to see Yogani's sources. Like I said in a previous post, I've ordered Norman Paulsen's "Sacred Science" (as well as his "Christ Consciousness") in order to gain a deeper understanding of the mechanisms of Spinal Breathing and the rising of the kundalini.
It would also be interesting to hear about what a kundalini-active ida and pingala can be used for. Perhaps that is how Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji controlled his body temperatures.. ::???
Might be really nice to know, especially when it's forty below..
Thanks for pointing out that lesson.
:)
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Dec 28 2009 04:16:38 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 07:30:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Perhaps that is how Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji controlled his body temperatures.. ::???
Might be really nice to know, especially when it's forty below..
This is the easiest way to keep yourself warm, my body does this automatically when it feels cold during meditation. Especially when I walk bare foot on chilled marble floor.
Raise your chest and join your hands in front. See pictures below (Namaste/Namaskar):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379...6d91c823.jpg
http://www.atv.ca/images/shows-lond...aste_lrg.jpg
Both palms heat up and the warmth is spread in the whole body within seconds.
I have long given up on understanding the inner functions and terminology. But I can see you will be ready to write a book soon.
Seeking knowledge, understanding functions are good for the mind but sometimes become hindrance on the path. Doesn't matter in the end anyway.
Things *WILL* unfold when one deserves them and on the right time. When Kundalini is awake, it can not be stopped from further progress, no matter what the mind chatters all the time. Kundalini works in the backgriound all the time. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 07:36:27 AM
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Hi TI,
One way of thinking about the energy body (or the subtle nervous system) is as a body of divine light. The nadis are channels of divine light and the chakras are places where those channels cross each other. The energy body has certain features and characteristics and behaves in certain ways. Balancing the energy flows in the right and left nostrils will bring kundalini into the central channel. This happens because the energy flows are balanced in the ida and pingala nadis.
But purifying the sushumna nadi directly will also cause kundalini to flow into the central channel. When this happens the knots are loosened and the other nadis are illuminated from within.
So both schools of thought are right, they are just coming at the same end goal from different directions.
Balancing the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as awakening them. They will not be awakened until kundalini has entered the central channel and is radiating outwards from there as divine ecstasy. This is more of an effect of spiritual practice rather than a cause.
In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.
So really the whole process of spinal breathing pranayama boils down to ecstasy, because it is expanding ecstasy, which takes us onward towards our divine destiny. This would be my criteria for assessing if I am on the right track or not.
quote:
It would be nice to see Yogani's sources.
Yogani once said that if you want to understand the sources of AYP then it is found in the Secrets of Wilder book.
All the best.
Christi
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 2:38:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
This is the easiest way to keep yourself warm, my body does this automatically when it feels cold during meditation. Especially when I walk bare foot on chilled marble floor.
Raise your chest and join your hands in front. See pictures below (Namaste/Namaskar):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379...6d91c823.jpg
http://www.atv.ca/images/shows-lond...aste_lrg.jpg
Both palms heat up and the warmth is spread in the whole body within seconds.
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for mentioning that. I usually use that formation during prayers..
I tried it just now and it does seem to work!
The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0
:)
TI |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 9:32:49 PM
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Hi TI, Christi & All,
Here's an interesting article from RainbowBody.Net on Self, Heart, Yoga, how Ida and Pingala relate to Sushumna, and so on.
http://www.rainbowbody.net/HeartMind/netineti.htm
I felt the article offered some good and complementary information to some of the items being discussed in this thread, and so, I just wanted to pass it along.
Excerpt:
"This non-dual process in which all are kin is non-linear and non-dual BOTH/AND simultaneously like a non-dual pillar of light going up and down, neither up or down, left or right, in or out, neither both, but both/and.
In authentic yoga we are this non-dual pillar in the activated core/heart reached through the middle innermost central channel (within the sushumna). Energetically this occurs when the winds moving in the ida and pingala channels (nadis) are subtilized to the extent that they dissolve into the central channel (sushumna) and stilled (sunya) in samadhi (see yoga Sutra III.3). Here samsaric mental afflictions are dissolved
Thus we are not "just" the energy body and not just the physical body which is ever changing, temporary, and corporeal, but at the same our identity must include the form bodies (in the greater context) in each sacred eternal moment of non-dual being.
This is the salient point; i.e., that in all pervasive vast space, there is nothing excluded nor nothing that remains to be included. It is the Great Integrity -- the Great Completion -- the Mahamudra as the vast expanse where duality is merely a limited misperception. The orthodox scholar, dualist, and common man mistakes the expression to say that we are not the body, but the yogi takes it to say that we are all inclusive, the body, and the river, and the stars, the sacred mandala, divine creatrix, -- not just one of these limited, isolated, separate, and false identifications."
And
"In the true non-sectarian yogic tradition what is put an end to -- what ceases, is ignorance. When the veil of ignorance is destroyed, then illumination shines forth. Conversely, the process of denying or limiting Reality as-it-is through ignoring what is, is avidya (ignorance). When we ignore something then we lose the big picture and wind up with distorted and biased views. One could just as well say that we are suffering from myopia or self deceit/delusion. When this confusion, delusion, ignorance or illusory bias is removed, then we see things as they are -- Reality shines forth. This Reality in tantra and dzogchen/mahamudra is natural, uncontrived, and unconditioned. It is our natural state.
What has been removed is the past programming. The result is the profound synchronization of absolute and relative truth, shiva/shakti, right and left channels, pingala/ida, undifferentiated and differentiated consciousness and so forth.
It is not a denial of the temporal as if samsara were separate from nirvana, or that nirvana was not found in samsara, or that shiva was not inside shakti, and so forth simply affirming the eternal presence
Now abiding in sacred presence - the basis of true spirituality, there is no thing truly solid, separate, or substantial that can be said to exist by itself (independently).
Nor can that "something be said to exist (as it never existed separately in the first place. Neither can one say both, that it both truly exists and not exist, because there is no separate thing that can be spoken about. Nor can they be said to both not exist. Again in all these situations the reified separate object of existence, can not freely succeed as a referent or object to refer to.
This occurs when awareness and energy is synchronized in the deepest recess of the nondual central channel (the avadhuti, kun dar ma, or sushumna)."
And
"Rather the case is that undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) coincides with differentiated reality (pratityasamutpada or relative truth) in sacred presence. here both are acknowledged as well as linked in yoga. In monism however everything is confused with everything else. In other words it is quite different to say that only undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) exists and differentiated reality (relative or conventional truth) does not -- either one or the other, rather in true non-duality both exist AND do not exist – neti/neti.
Existence, phenomena, things, and events appear to exist, appear to either arise or fall away, both, or neither, but all such referents are designators, indicators, or imputations toward nothing true, rather it arises from a limited arena of frozen time and contracted space. It is a very small part of the entire picture, like a distorted or occluded lens which obscures the vast hologram and primordial integrity which is rich beyond measure.
In truth there is no thing separate from the vast and all pervasive Primordial Mind. This is disclosed to the true seeker. What else can be known?
Once the true nature of the Mind is known, so is the true nature of nature also known in its timeless radiant and vibrant wonder."
Basically, thinking mind is a distinction-making sense that confuses distinction with actuality; it would be as if eyes could think ... they might think that distinctions of form; colors, light, etc. ... were the only aspects that were real, the only details that were important, thereby missing the beautiful balance of holistic experiencing.
Centering in the Heart (in Sanskrit, the word for Heart is Hridayam ... from the words Hrid - Center and Ayam - This; Heart is "the center of This") ... where objectivity ever dissolves into subjectivity, as subjectivity ever dissolves into objectivity ... is the return to whole, inherently liberated, balanced reality.
Possibly the best illustration for this is of a man and a woman making love (hence its popularity as an illustrative symbol, in the tantric traditions) ... who is making love to whom? The man to woman? Or the woman to the man? Probably more accurate to say that they are making love together, yes?
And so it is within all that appears as duality .. and the ever-flowing, simultaneous mutuality of subjectivity-into-objectivity, and objectivity-into-subjectivity.
Am I really the awareness perceiving the objects? Or the objects being perceived by the awareness? Or somehow "both"/neither-yet-all?
As with lovemaking ... in the perfect harmony of mutuality ... it doesn't exactly matter ... and there's far too much beauty in the actuality to feel the slightest concern about specifics; there's just loving gratitude and celebration ... in this beautiful place, now, where,as Meister Eckhart wrote "distinction never gazed."
You know the place; it's right here ---- at the very center --- of this; Hridayam.
AUM Is Where The Heart Is.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 10:56:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TI,
One way of thinking about the energy body (or the subtle nervous system) is as a body of divine light. The nadis are channels of divine light and the chakras are places where those channels cross each other. The energy body has certain features and characteristics and behaves in certain ways. Balancing the energy flows in the right and left nostrils will bring kundalini into the central channel. This happens because the energy flows are balanced in the ida and pingala nadis.
But purifying the sushumna nadi directly will also cause kundalini to flow into the central channel. When this happens the knots are loosened and the other nadis are illuminated from within.
So both schools of thought are right, they are just coming at the same end goal from different directions.
Balancing the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as awakening them. They will not be awakened until kundalini has entered the central channel and is radiating outwards from there as divine ecstasy. This is more of an effect of spiritual practice rather than a cause.
In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.
So really the whole process of spinal breathing pranayama boils down to ecstasy, because it is expanding ecstasy, which takes us onward towards our divine destiny. This would be my criteria for assessing if I am on the right track or not.
quote:
It would be nice to see Yogani's sources.
Yogani once said that if you want to understand the sources of AYP then it is found in the Secrets of Wilder book.
All the best.
Christi
Hi Christi :)
Ok. Let's try this again. I had responded to you earlier but I got an error when trying to Post New Reply.. something about a flood gate and that I had to wait 30 minutes before I could post again, and, I lost what I had written.. Quite annoying.. I wish there were some way to recover your new posts when they don't get uploaded due to the 'flood gate' or not being logged on...
quote:
In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.
I think it may be more complicated than just balancing the in-breath and out-breath because, for example, you can do that and have one nostril partially plugged. It may be that both ida and pingala must be open and clear and that the in and out breaths have to be equal. Many times I've observed that before I fall asleep, my body goes into this routine where it breathes kind of rapidly, with no pause in between breaths. The body seems to be setting up the precursor stage to initiate sleep and that breathing routine seems to be part of that. Makes me wonder if some stages of sleep are not unlike dissolving winds in the central channel. But, yes, there is definately more to all of this than one can find written about it from the myriad of different sources.
Yes, I have read "The Secrets of Wilder". Although I was kind of disturbed by the attempted rape scene and the gun incident, it was an interesting read. Despite it's fictional undertones, it left me wanting to find a woman like Devi and practice even more yoga! The book would make a good movie especially if they had Keanu Reeves playing Wilder.. :)
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 11:45:33 PM
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Hi Kirtanman :)
Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate it. :)
quote:
"This non-dual process in which all are kin is non-linear and non-dual BOTH/AND simultaneously like a non-dual pillar of light going up and down, neither up or down, left or right, in or out, neither both, but both/and.
In authentic yoga we are this non-dual pillar in the activated core/heart reached through the middle innermost central channel (within the sushumna). Energetically this occurs when the winds moving in the ida and pingala channels (nadis) are subtilized to the extent that they dissolve into the central channel (sushumna) and stilled (sunya) in samadhi (see yoga Sutra III.3).
The bolded parts really resonate with me because I had been spending a lot of time focusing on the heart chakra due to having read about Matrix Energetics where it explicitly states that the heart space is the key. (Always returning to the heart..)
I have/had been seeing the bright shiny diamond or lotus in the heart and had been gearing some meditations to opening and sensing the heart space! It is very nice to see a written confirmation of the heart-space pillar of light! This is all making more sense to me now. Perhaps combining the heart practices and Spinal Breathing brought this about.. :)
and this too:
quote:
Centering in the Heart (in Sanskrit, the word for Heart is Hridayam ... from the words Hrid - Center and Ayam - This; Heart is "the center of This") ... where objectivity ever dissolves into subjectivity, as subjectivity ever dissolves into objectivity ... is the return to whole, inherently liberated, balanced reality.
Really, I appreciate everything you've quoted. It is funny but that is what I've been thinking about lately.. the two realities that appear separate but somehow exist in the same space... which is more real? What is this reality? I know returning to the world seems like coming into a dense dream now. I sure like the other space, it is very quiet there.
I keep re-reading your quotes and saying to myself, "yup" it is like that or "yes" that is how it appears.. I think I'm getting stuck here in contemplation.. better quit while I can still think.. :)
quote:
Now abiding in sacred presence - the basis of true spirituality, there is no thing truly solid, separate, or substantial that can be said to exist by itself (independently).
Nor can that "something be said to exist (as it never existed separately in the first place. Neither can one say both, that it both truly exists and not exist, because there is no separate thing that can be spoken about. Nor can they be said to both not exist. Again in all these situations the reified separate object of existence, can not freely succeed as a referent or object to refer to.
This occurs when awareness and energy is synchronized in the deepest recess of the nondual central channel (the avadhuti, kun dar ma, or sushumna)."
Thanks again for shining your light on this subject.. (pun intended)
:)
TI
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 08:25:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for mentioning that. I usually use that formation during prayers.
I tried it just now and it does seem to work!
The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0
:)
TI
Quote:
If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?
You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.
These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth -- and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv...apter09.html
Book of Secrets - Osho
Try not to forget this. |
Edited by - manigma on Dec 30 2009 02:26:35 AM |
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AYPmod
53 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 10:50:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for mentioning that. I usually use that formation during prayers.
I tried it just now and it does seem to work!
The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0
:)
TI
If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?
You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.
These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth -- and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv...apter09.html
Book of Secrets
Try not to forget this.
Hi Manigma,
The post above is a direct quote from Osho. It will be easier for the readers if you put the quote in a different color or enclose them in [quote][/quote].
Also, it would be helpful if you posted a few words of your own,they can be as simple as, "maybe these lines from Osho will help" or can be a bit more detailed. This helps people reading understand why you posted the quote.
Thanks.
-AYP Moderators |
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Expanded Sushumna
