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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 03 2006 : 11:32:00 AM
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Over the holidays I had the most interesting experience.
One evening, as I was getting ready for bed, I started shivering. Though I was not feeling cold at all, I was shivering. I tought nothing of it and simply took out another sheet and cuddled under them. However I was now shaking uncontrollably.
This went on for about 5 minutes or so. Then I felt my lower back getting very warm, as though someone had put a heating pad on there, nearing a burning sensation. But the heat was not coming from an outside source. Then as suddenly as my shivering had started, it stopped...for a few moments.
As it started up again, it felt as though millions of electrical impulses were being forced, in spurts, from my lower back to the navel area. All the while I was "shivering" like before, but noticed this time that the epicenter of the shivering was concentrated around the navel area. The spurts went on for a few minutes, and like my lower back, now my navel felt intense heat, though not as much as the lower back. And just like before, it subsided as quickly as it had begun...for a few moments.
The same scenario happened, but this time the spurts started from the navel and where being forced upward, ending at the area around the chest and lungs. For the lower back and navel, I could almost pinpoint where the impulses were concentrated. However with this area, it was more difficult. It felt as though is was being discharged, coming from the spine, moving towards the chest, but spreading out into the whole area of the chest, not so much a single point. Kind of like blowing flour from your hand. And just like before, it subsided as quickly as it had begun...for a few moments.
This time it started from the chest and moved towards the throat. However this time it felt as though it had lost its momentum. I could barely tell where it was ending.
I have to say that it was a very humbling experience. I don't know if that was kundalini or not, but I was helpless throughout the experience. Whatever was going to happen, all I could do was observe, as I was pretty much physically debilitated from the intense "shivering". At first I was scared, but after I felt it at the navel, I though perhaps that it could possibly kundalini, at which point I was no longer afraid. I figured it knew what it was doing and I would step back and let it do what it had to do - not that I had any choice in the matter.
One thing is for sure, I am now a believer that kundalini is VERY REAL. I always thought it was something subtle and esotheric, but to me, it was very tangible, and with a definite physical manifestation.
I believe.
peace out,
yves
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2006 : 10:02:12 AM
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quote:
I don't know if that was kundalini or not
Yves,
Your description sounds very much like a kundalini surge. Have you experienced any currents (of prana) in the spine before this happened? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2006 : 11:07:25 AM
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Hi Yves:
That was a beaut. Balance and self-pacing in practices are the first things that come to mind on reading your dramatic kundalini experience.
That, and a reminder that the idea of "breaking through" to higher levels in the body with these kinds of experiences is somewhat of an illusion. I know this is not your intention. It just happened, right? Yet, the idea can creep in that "this is it," and we should now focus on cultivating these kinds of dramatic breakthrough events. To be honest, there is no such thing as a final opening of this kind, and there is barely such a thing as a significant incremental opening. These things rarely happen in quantum leaps, even though they might appear to be doing so. There is the idea out there that all we have to do is bring the energy up to the top and then we are done -- enlightened. Not so.
Rather, there are endless degrees of purification and opening going on to infinity. The Secrets of Wilder novel provides a scenario representing this process. No matter how big a jolt we might get, or how high up, we are still only at the beginning of the next stage. So there is no rush to open a particular physical area and break through into higher centers with all this. We can arrive there via natural means (a la AYP style practices), and be much more comfortable going at it that way.
Of course, our bhakti will always be begging for more, and therein lies the balancing act. John Wilder had a tough time with this, balancing his bhakti with his sometimes frenetic pace, learning his lessons as he went along. We all have to do this...
I mention all this because, while the big experiences may seem like a lot progress-wise, they are all baby steps. The real big progress comes from long term stable daily practice. And that can be with no big jolts at all. In fact, the big jolts can lead us into energy overdoses that can delay our practices for days, weeks or months. An intentional big jolt breakthrough approach is a slower path!
Which is not to say we will not ever have them. It can can happen sometimes, as you have experienced, even with a stable practice routine. It is a reminder that we are dealing with powerful forces within, and should keep that in mind as we manage our practices day-to-day. If we are pushing too hard in practices, we can have this kind of delayed reaction. Therefore, it is good to keep a smart foot on that accelerator (our practices).
So now you have some proof that something is really going on in there. You have become a believer in your own inner potential. 
May it be an inspiration to settle down into a long term stable routine that will steadily open things up. Then, one morning you will wake up and realize that without even noticing you traveled a thousand miles further than all the jolts in the world could take you.
If we are steadily cultivating inner silence, and gently coaxing up ecstatic conductivity, all will unfold naturally and more quickly than any energy breakthrough experience can deliver.
Thanks for sharing that one, and all the best as you move ahead from here.
The guru is in you.
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2006 : 11:59:52 AM
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| Weaver: I never had any kind of experience before this one. It was totally unexpected. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2006 : 11:28:16 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Great and informative post. It brings to mind Gopi Krishna and his tumultuous opening(s).
Despite having taken (unwittingly) the path of having kundalini dictate the pace and scope of his openings without the benefits of pranayama and meditation, it was 12 years of suffering and near death moments before he reached a point of relative stability and inner peace. The point he finally reached he described as Samadhi-like which I guess in AYP terminology would be the final stage of the enlightenment process, 24/7 outpouring of love and bliss. The one thing I notice about Gopi Krishna from his writings is that he seemed to be a big thinker and very analytical and mentions often to not fully understanding the process that he went through. This part doesn’t seem to fit with transcending dualism. Maybe he never quite completed the process?
On the other hand we have someone like Krishnamurti who seems to have transcended duality and is aware and can perceive the true nature of the universe but doesn’t seem to have the full equation either.
How do practices like AYP affect the rise of kundalini other than making the journey towards enlightenment far smoother and safer? Is it key in order to reach a more balanced and complete state with neither energy experiences (Krishna) or the darkened form of unity from where krishnamurti seems to speak from being dominant?
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2006 : 11:46:29 PM
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Hi Yves:
Is this the Tesla you are talking about? Interesting story.
http://www.thevillager.com/villager...nnypost.html
Note also the Gopi Krishna reference in the article.
Yes, kundalini is like that -- it produces huge flows of creative energy, and can burn one out from the inside if the ground of the nervous system is not prepared. Hence, self-pacing in our advanced yoga practices. When the nervous system is prepared it definitely becomes a case of "Move over Tesla."
I must say there would be no AYP bubbling out without this sort of thing going on here. It is much more than the raw creativity and insight that Tesla and Gopi Krishna exhibited and described. It is also a boundless outpouring of divine love. That is a higher manifestation of the energy -- turning it all toward loving service and the inevitable unity experience for everyone -- the conscious joining.
"I am That. You are That. All this is That."
Or -- The One is the many and the many are the One.
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 12:05:56 AM
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Hi Anthem:
We posted at the same time.
Yes, AYP-style practices are for making the journey smoother and safer -- more balanced. We can also say that the practices facilitate the journey itself -- that the journey would be much much slower for most of us without the practices. That is, after all, what yoga is for -- union -- though Krishnamurti types pooh-pooh the idea of yoga practices. What do they know? We are living it!
The practices give everyone a chance to make big strides in this life according to personal desire and commitment, assuming everyone has access to the information. It is about time for that access, yes? It is about time we fully develop all of this in an open and systematic way.
So here we are, having these experiences of human spiritual transformation and these amazing conversations...
The guru is in you.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 11:11:22 AM
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Yogani, Anthem and Yves,
This night it was my turn to get a taste of kundalini as well. Not as dramatic as Yves, but enough to keep me awake part of the night. I woke up about 1 a.m. by a sudden heat and contraction in the root, then it went upward a little bit, then spread out as just energy in the upper part of the body and the head, with some pressure in the third eye. That was it, then later during the night, when I was almost asleep, there came 2 smaller energy waves up into the upper part of the body and head, without anything in the root, except for a light, constant ache, which continued throughout the night. I was able to sleep later in the morning.
During the morning session I skipped yoni mudra kumbhaka (which I started 1 month ago), and eased up a lot on siddhasana, but kept pranayama and meditation as of Yogani's recommendation in lesson 69. Both practices were smooth with good stillness in meditation, and regular life feels stable with stillness, with a slight pressure in the forehead. The tingling in the legs, which started a couple of months ago, is still there.
My questions to Yogani are,
1. Is it advisable to start yoni mudra kumbhaka again in a week or so, or would it not be necessary at all from now on, since this practice is a direct kundalini stimulator?
2. Is it normal to experience kundalini without having first experienced gentler currents of prana in the spine (which I haven't), or should a sudden kundalini experience like this (or like Yves) be considered a symptom of pushing too hard in practices (even if the practices and daily life have felt completely stable)?
Thanks in advance for any advice. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 11:20:51 AM
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Hello Yogani,
quite some time ago you expressed a wish to be asked questions by email rather than on the forum. I am quite sure many people (many of whom are newcomers since you expressed your wishes) simply missed that . (Or if you told us of a change of mind on that issue, I missed that myself!)
Has that changed though? Have you adjusted happily to answering questions directly?
Regards,
-David |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 05 2006 11:58:40 AM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 2:46:26 PM
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Hi Weaver and David:
Weaver: Yoni mudra won't go away. Recall what I mentioned about the purification process continuing far beyond any particular opening. All of the practices continue to be important in promoting a full and balanced opening, within the limits of good self-pacing. The way to handle yoni mudra is to lighten it up (or stop it) during periods of release. Then come back very gradually after the release clears up, looking for that stable balance between practices and purification experiences. "Kundalini symptoms" are symptoms of purification -- energy causing friction in nerves that are not fully purified. Once the nerves are purified, the friction will be much less and much more energy will flow with much less fanfare. In the end, the energy flow is vast and the symptoms minimal. That is the outpouring of divine love mentioned above, in a nervous system that has been adequately purified and stabilized via well-managed practices.
Kundalini experiences can happen to anyone with or without practices. They are a sign of evolution, and we are all evolving -- with practices or not. With practices we can go much faster and further, and with much better balance. That is the difference. If "normal" practices seem to be associated with an aggravated kundalini, then we should self-pace them like we would at any other level of practices.
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David: Good question about where I am answering questions. Everywhere they come it seems!
Originally, I was concerned that I would be bombarded with so many questions in the forum that the forum would become about me, which I do not want. I want it to be a community where everyone is helping each other at increasingly higher levels. I think this is a healthy path of evolution for the AYP community -- and we all know it will go higher and higher as everyone advances. This will open the door for many more seekers to find assistance, with less reliance on me for the answers. Many of you are answering questions on a very high level already, based on your own experiences. Bravo for that!
So here is the deal. Anyone can ask anything they want here of me or the community. If others can cover the questions, I will not say much (even if it is addressed to me). If there seems to be a gap, I'll jump in. Whatever makes sense. But let's make it a community, not a Yogani Q&A. I think we are doing so, and I hope it will continue to grow like that. The theory is that by the time there are too many questions for me to answer here, there will be many others who can answer them. Let's see if it works.
Given the above community-building plan and my commitment to writing more books and online lessons, I have shifted my position on emails to encouraging everyone to bring their questions here to the forums. That way many of you can help with answering questions and more people will benefit immediately from the public discussion. In other words, the quantity of private emails I will be doing will go down as most of it shifts here to the forums. This is how it should be for all the reasons mentioned. It also adds diversity and more opportunities for exploration of ways to optimize the practices.
Neither AYP nor I have all the answers. AYP is a suggested baseline from which many things can be explored and tested. I believe Jim called it a "safe harbor." That is exactly the function AYP should serve, and yoga should move on to increasingly optimized levels of application as research and practical results warrant. As long as we are working with the underlying principles of human spiritual transformation and a basic set of guidelines like AYP, then we have set the stage for tremendous progress both short term and long term. We are giving birth to a new applied science here...
The language in the forum introductions was modified several weeks ago to cover the shift to encouraging everyone to bring their questions to the forums, and it was also covered in the latest lesson #279 -- http://www.aypsite.org/279.html
The guru is in you.
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 5:09:10 PM
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Yogani:
Yes, that is the Tesla I was referring to He was simply an amazing thinker and inventor. Unfortunately some of his most groundbreaking work never saw the day (I.E. getting electricity from the earth and atmosphere)
This is something I have often pondered about myself after learning about agnihotra. The scriptures say that at sunrise, a wave of energies saturate the atmosphere. Same goes for sunset. Modern science has shown that at sunrise and sunset, the atmosphere is charged with ions. Imagine if we could harness this into storable electricity - a source of energy which is renewed with every day, twice a day!
I know this is off topic, but I couldn't resist. Maybe someday another Tesla will be among us and be able to achieve this:) |
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Move over Tesla, here she comes ("K" reminders)
