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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 10:06:15 AM
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Hi All:
Here is another one from my email.
Q:
Almost 10 years ago, I picked up a small book called "Breath, Mind and Consciousness" by Harish Johari. It was on an almost forgotten practice called Swara Yoga.
Of late I have have rekindling of interest in this topic and decided to do a search to see if anything came up (10 years back, Breath, Mind and Consciousness was the only book I could find on the subject.) Surprisingly, even today there are perhaps only 2 or 3 books that I could find.
Being presented as a Tantric technique, I was wondering if you had come across it, and if you knew of other resources where more can be learned on the practice?
A:
I believe the late Swami Rama was into swara yoga, among other things, and incorporated it into his writings on practices. Among his best books on practice are Path of Fire and Light, Vols 1&2. You can find them on the AYP book list, here: http://www.aypsite.org/booklist1.html
As for swara yoga itself, my understanding of it is that it is a primarily a pranayama system. I do not know if it is a well-rounded path, also covering meditation and other aspects of yoga practice. Of course, as we are finding now, any good path with some missing pieces can be filled in with good results.
Interestingly, I have found in my later years that just about all paths draw from the same practices. Each system usually focuses on a few elements to the exclusion of other elements. Yet, when you review everything that is out there, what emerges is a broad common tool set that all the systems are drawing from.
Where does this tool set come from? It comes from the human nervous system!
By far the best writing on the broad range of elements of practice that we humans have built within us is the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. He really nailed it. That is why nearly all systems of yoga claim to be doing his "eight limbs." The Yoga Sutras are a document of a few dozen pages that was written some 500 years ago (some say much longer -- ancient Indian texts are not dated). However long people have been reading the Yoga Sutras, it is a pretty amazing document...
The eight limbs are an excellent measuring rod by which all systems of practice can be measured for completeness. This is discussed in AYP lesson #149 http://www.aypsite.org/149.html
The open and integrated approach in AYP is an attempt to get all of the elements of practice down in writing in detail in a logical and usable sequence. What we are finding now is that just about any system that comes forward is much more easily understood when placed up against all these elements of practice we are identifying and utilizing. Gone are the days of mysterious esoteric systems that evoke lots of superstition. At least, I hope those days are gone.
It is time for applied yoga science to prevail. The research you are doing can be to that end also. Please do continue to share in the open "melting pot" of the AYP forums, where we all can continue to integrate the best knowledge available from every possible source. Everyone will benefit accordingly.
Btw, Johari is best known for his excellent books on chakras and yantras. I did not know he had done any books on actual practices. That has always been my main interest -- documented practices. Since I did not find much over the last 30+ years, I decided to write it myself. May many more do the same! Openly published knowledge is what will take us out of the dark ages of spiritual practice and into a much more enlightened era. Patanjali has proven that beyond any doubt. It is time we gave him some help. 
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 11:52:08 AM
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quote:
What we are finding now is that just about any system that comes forward is much more easily understood when placed up against all these elements of practice we are identifying and utilizing
That's the closest I've seen you get to my own personal, skewed viewpoint on AYP, Yogani. It's a dynamite practice to be followed literally, but it's also a level ground. AYP allows us to look at other practices and intuitively know what we can disregard, because we're better equipped to recognize dead ends and digressions. We can see when something is overly superstitious or overly bundled up with various overlays when the germ of that thing is surely simple. We can spot the myriad graft-ons, because we understand the germs of things, the simplicity. We can, for the first time, see the playing field. And that’s not because you explain, like, sambhavi mudra so clearly. It’s insight transmitted via the totality of the teaching - the integration, the sequencing, the tone. And it’s transmitted, most of all, by actually doing this stripped-down, highly efficacious practice.
A practice is a great thing. But there are lots of practices out there (I'm not saying they're as good, or as appropriate for westerners of the present time, as AYP). A practice is a way through the thicket following in the footsteps of others (and that's what AYP is, in part), but a level ground is unique, and sets the stage for highly accelerative progress and development by providing a point of departure for cautious - self-paced! - forays into further experimentation. It's sort of like building a harbor on an island surrounded by treacherous waters. All of a sudden you can do a lot more a lot more efficiently. Lots of overhead is gone. You're not spending all time and energy trying to figure out how to get to/from the damned island, your attention is absorbed in higher level things you'd previously never dreamed of.
Re: further experimentation, I very highly recommend sticking with pure AYP practice for a good long while....even forever. I would strongly discourage deviating/experimenting out of impatience or spiritual ambition or just raw curiosity. It's got to be natural and come from one's inner guru (it's the inner guru who really benefits from the launching pad of AYP, not "you'). In fact, if you're impatient for "progress", that means you've not yet gotten the prize out of AYP, and you ought to stick with the program for a while. The real progress comes when you don't give a damn if you ever progress further. Sort of like a child immersed in play without self-consciousness (thank you, Jesus...).
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 10 2005 12:03:48 PM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 7:12:14 PM
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Thanks much, Jim.
You have "nailed it" too. If I have seemed a bit stubborn at times about maintaining the AYP lessons pretty much as thay are, it is because I want to keep that harbor in one place. With that base intact, we can explore the many options you allude to without flinging ourselves to the four winds, so to speak.
It is a thrill to see the AYP lessons being used in this way -- either as a primary teaching, or as a spring board to new understandings. As I have said, I don't see the AYP knowledge as a fixed tradition or the last word in yoga. Rather, it is a baseline, an open source that can be used in many ways as we increase our understanding and the application of means that promote human spiritual transformation.
It's a new approach in yoga. We can always use new ideas. It is important to be looking forward at least as much as we are looking back.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 9:08:07 PM
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Melissa
AYP isn't intended as a replacement for Patanjali...or anything else. It's missing lots of stuff...it won't tell you how to change a tire or which crystals to use to cure a hangover.
What it is is an extremely clear, practical and effective grouping and sequencing of practices leading to awakening, with everything you need to know. No more, no less. And though I love Patanjali, he doesn't quite tell you exactly how to get there in clear direct instructions ....though he tells you lots of great things. As do lots of other books. Enjoy them, and do AYP, and I guarantee you good things will happen! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 10 2005 9:13:57 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 9:21:13 PM
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Yogani, yep, to work properly, a level ground/springboard must be firm and stable. It needs to remain squarely what it is, whether it's serving people by giving them a path to follow or giving them a springboard to leap off from. If AYP expanded or amended to include every point of departure, it would no longer serve as level ground. Its virtue is its simplicity and structural integrity. I hope you don't fool with it.
May 90000 new and interesting tacks and insights come out of it and help enrichen the world, and may the basic practice, in its simplicity, remain in place to launch the next departurist! :)
(oh, and may departurists remember to urge newcomers to start simple and follow the plan!). |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 10 2005 10:13:58 PM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2005 : 11:28:29 PM
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Hi Melissa:
Sometime in the next year I plan on adding "self-inquiry" to the AYP writings, which is the mind stuff. In yoga parlance it is called "jnana." It has not been covered much so far because it really depends on a stable ground of inner silence to be effective as spiritual practice -- like samyama does, though much more so. Without inner silence, self-inquiry is only intellectualization. Nothing wrong with that for analysis, but it is not a penetrating yoga to the extent we like to focus on around here.
The mind is only good in yoga if it is dancing in stillness, and jnana is for that in later stages. We will know we are ready for jnana when every thought is a wave of bliss. Before then, it can be rather punishing, and none too progressive yogically speaking. That must be where the expression "beating our brains out" comes from.
Better to use deep meditation to soften things up for a few years. Then the mind falls into jnana without even trying. We become it.
It took me a long time to understand what jnana is. At the same time I found out what Ramana Maharishi was talking about. It always comes back to one thing -- inner silence. In That, all can be known.
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 08:53:30 AM
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Hi Melissa:
The reading is great as you are moved to do it. It is a natural "niyama" -- spiritual study -- springing out of inner silence.
Our reading provides inspiration which, in time, is transformed to realization. Ramana Maharishi certainly qualifies for that.
For a long list of spiritual books, check the AYP book list at: http://www.aypsite.org/booklist.html
Not required reading!
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 12:06:44 PM
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I agree with most of what Yogani says about Jnana. However, the reason so much of that material is either unfathomable or easily misused is the same reason all the OTHER yoga material is unfathomable or misused....it's written poorly or for people of another time/place/culture. Yes, you come to jnana naturally in time, but you come to EVERYTHING naturally in time. For those who want to dip their toe in jnana (which is pretty much the same as vedanta/advaita), I highly recommend an Australian teacher named Sailor Bob. Here's his web site: http://members.iinet.net.au/~adamson7
He's sort of the Yogani of jnana/Advaita - he cuts to the core and speaks in plain, clear language. If his web page turns you on (there's a good bunch of stuff to read there), check out his book, "What's Wrong with Right Now, Unless You Think About It? " (or, better, just check out the title!). If the web page doesnt' speak to you, don't force it. As Yogani says, advaita/jnana can be a jawbreaker for the mind, and you get there via meditation anyway. But some people are naturally disposed, so it's worth dipping your toe...so long as you ignore the conclusion of this teacher (and others in that world) that no practice is necessary, meditation is a waste of time, and intellectual grasping is all that's needed. I've been puzzling that through for a long time now, and I'm very firmly convinced they're wrong, and that this stuff opens the mind but not the heart. And yet more advice: advaita/jnana is trendy, with lots of teachers out there. Skip them and stick with the main guys like Sailor Bob. A lot of these guys are very deluded. [note: I don't say any of this hastily....it's based on lots of thought and observation; I was unsure and confused on it for a long time] |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 11 2005 12:12:46 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 12:11:01 PM
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Dear Melissa,
When you talk of feeling of something missing from AYP you have to realise Yogani is teaching a yoga for the West or for those who don't want all the trappings that goes with following a traditional 'Indian' way.Yogani attempts to serve up dishes for all to taste and get some satisfaction.Some people don't want to 'dress up as a chicken and run around in circles clucking' as a method of reaching moksha, but if my guru told me it would allow me to make progress then I would probably try it.lol.Very few would start yoga if this was required.Many years ago I read a book on hatha yoga and it stated that some techniques should not be practised in the West, I guess they meant you needed structured lessons and guidance as Yogani has given.
The AYP lessons are not complete as Yogani says simply because too many questions does not lead to a settled mind.Questions are not encouraged traditionally for this reason as they only serve to create idle chatter.Many answers come from within in my experience.
The AYP methods are not the quickest or most effective methods of making progress (and I don't think they are intended or claim to be),but without a personal guru who can take you further, then they are probably the next best thing.Although I don't use the AYP methods I can see their structure will cater for a larger majority of the masses than traditional teachings.If that is indeed Yogani's aims then in that he has succeeded without a doubt.I try and answer all questions my students ask of me but inevitably the final note from me is always MEDITATE! if you want results.Nothing else beats using the practices as much as you can, making time to do them daily, no matter how many books we read it won't lead us further down the path.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 3:36:10 PM
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Can those better versed than I am with yogic terminology please clarify for me the difference between the terms jnana and vedanta. I thought "jnana" was along the lines of true knowledge or some such, but I could be wrong.
Secondly, when you guys are referring to "self-inquiry" are you referring to the process of observing behavior or reactions in yourself, getting to the root of those actions and then releasing the illusory thoughts or delusions that initiate these actions in the first place or something else?
I would be grateful for clarifications so I can follow along.
Thanks
Anthem
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Edited by - Anthem on Dec 11 2005 3:37:17 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 5:41:12 PM
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there are a zillion ways to answer this question. I learned about these things by reading and mulling over lots of vedanta, advaita, and jnana teachings. But while I could boil down the insight they're all pointing at, it'd take me some effort to try to compare/contrast in a way that would be fair. Well, let me try this. Yoga is not quite Hinduism is not quite yoga. Let's say that jnana yoga is the yoga version of Vedanta, which is very Hindu, and is considered the encapsulation of the deepest wisdom of the Vedas.
The upshot is this: they're all concerned with non-duality. That's quite a coarse reduction, but at least no one would disagree (much) with it. As non-duality is all the rage in spiritual circles right now, you'll find lots of info on the web. If you'll zip through the Sailor Bob site I referenced above, you'll get a fine emprical view of what this is all about from the clearest possible source.
Sorry, if I get more time I'll tackle the topic more completely. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2005 : 09:51:01 AM
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"please clarify for me the difference between the terms jnana and vedanta"
Hi Anthem & Jim:
The way I look at it is, jnana is a system of yoga practice (self-inquiry is the practice) and vedanta is a philosophy for folks who like to sit around and jawbone about the non-dual nature of reality, while pooh-poohing the value of practices. You can tell I prefer the former over the latter? I'd much rather eat the pudding than analyze it. On the other hand, books on the nature of pudding are okay too -- as long as they are inspiring us to keep up our yoga.
"Where are the AYP lessons on self-inquiry?" you ask.
That is one I am still in the process of simplifying for practical application, and I hope to have a little AYP Enlightenment Series book on it out in 2007, and probably a lesson or two online before then.
Self-inquiry involves developing a skill and habit of questioning our ingrained assumptions about how we perceive and interact in the world, getting behind and systematically dissolving the knee-jerk judgments we constantly make that sustain our separation from the whole and the unhappiness that goes with it. Well, deep meditation gradually does this for us, giving us a base of "self" behind the thinking process, as many here are observing.
When we have "self" (inner silence) it is much easier to do the inquiry. Self-inquiry in an AYP mode will be for taking advantage of that naturally occurring transformation, the rise of inner silence, and building on it. In other words, I don't see self-inquiry as a core practice, and that is why I am in no hurry to trump it up here. More often than not, so-called self-inquiry is a trap for the ego-intellect and can be a major distraction on the path. That is especially so if inner silence is lacking to begin with -- then self-inquiry is nothing but mental masturbation.
When self-inquiry does come out in AYP, you can be sure it will be as simple and practical as possible, and only an add-on to what we are gaining already through existing practices, with inner silence coming up in our lives and doing the very deed we are discussing here -- automatically making us better self-inquirers.
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2005 : 12:30:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
The AYP methods are not the quickest or most effective methods of making progress (and I don't think they are intended or claim to be),but without a personal guru who can take you further, then they are probably the next best thing.
Dave,
there is nothing which is the 'quickest or most effective methods of making progress', since everything is dependent on exactly whatever is going on in every case in every individual person's life. If you are implying that a personal guru is always faster (or always takes you further) than AYP, I disagree very strongly.
One could just as well say that a personal guru is the next best thing if someone does not have access to AYP!!
Regards,
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 12 2005 12:37:42 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2005 : 1:04:45 PM
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Dear David,
I am not looking for an argument with you ,I am just giving my experiences.I am not saying a personal guru is the fastest every time, it is dependant on the guru and their abilities and grace that they use to move you further.I practiced TM for 2 yrs in the mid 70's and it's effects were minimal compared to what my present practices are achieving.The effects have been validated not only by me, but also by my students, some who have never been involved in yoga or any other energy work.I do not claim this is the only way, no more than Yogani does for AYP. I do not aim to engage in an argument over what works best, and my post to Melissa was not aimed at that.I would rather spend 1 hr meditating than arguing with another.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2005 : 2:17:18 PM
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Dave,
I'm not arguing either -- I was just disagreeing with what you said --- or seemed to be saying -- in what I quoted. Perhaps it seemed to have ramifications which you did not intend? In which case I am just getting you to refine its intended meaning --- on which we seem to have agreement.
So we have agreement on this one I think, but even if we should not, no problem -- there is plenty of room for disagreement here on the forum.
At any time, when I say something, anyone can write in to say 'I very much disagree with that'. See the response to my postings recently under 'Where's the enlightened'. We had a number of people piping in to disagree with either what I said or seemed to them to be saying. That isn't a problem, in fact it's a good thing. The disagreement was as well-meaning as my posts which inspired it. I'm glad to be posting where people feel free to express their own opinions.
Disagreement like that gives me some choices, all of them perfectly valid choices to make: (a) I can refine or clarify what I say if it wasn't clear enough ( and what I say quite often is not clear enough, and I have to refine it ) or (b) I could find nothing to refine or clarify and choose to leave the disagreement lying there --- or (c) I could try to persuade the other person, or debate the point. And in response to what I do or don't do, the other person has the same perfectly valid choices I have --- refine what they say, find agreement, disagree, or debate the point, or just move on. We are all very free.
I don't think there are any signs (yet, though it may happen) of people making posts just to be argumentative. If and when that happens, we can deal with it when it does. But we have to be careful because people care about different stuff and have different approaches, so what looks like mere argumentation to one person can be a point made with solid intention by another.
Cheers,
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 12 2005 5:05:07 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2005 : 11:42:42 PM
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quote:
quote:
The AYP methods are not the quickest or most effective methods of making progress (and I don't think they are intended or claim to be),but without a personal guru who can take you further, then they are probably the next best thing.Although I don't use the AYP methods
I think it is important to speak responsibly in this forum especially in the spirit of horizontal learning and I am certain both Dave and David feel the same way. I can see how a statement like the above can be misleading though I am sure it wasn't intended to be that way.
It is natural to think our way is the best way but we have to accept that there is no way of truly knowing which system is the quickest or most effective one without experiencing them all. I think it is important to listen to our hearts for guidance on what works best for each of us.
To each their own as they say, it makes sense to reason we are all drawn to the AYP practices and forums because they resonate with us on a deep and very spiritual level of truth and love and that we are here to learn from them and each other.
All the best to us all on our chosen spiritual paths,
Anthem
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2005 : 5:31:32 PM
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For one, I think the knowledge of Swara to be fascinating. For me, also practical.
As you msy know, Swara deals with the breath and its effects on prana, psychology and physiology depending on which nostril is operating. Breath is solar in energy when operating through the right nostril, and lunar through the left. Depending on which nostril is operating, certain activites are better suited according to the operating nostril.
As simple example. Eating should be done when the right nostril is operating. When the right operates, it faciliates the acidic secretions, digestive juices being one of them. For years I had been suffering of poor digestion, resulting in food allergies and bad complexion. I have noticed that most of the time my left nostril is dominant. Eventhough it's normally supposed to alternate every 1-2 hours, it doesn't for me. Since starting to force my dominant nostril to be the right while eating, all my problems have magically disappeared. No more dyspepsia, no more belching, no more allergies, no more pimples.
Swara scriptures say that by knowledge of swara, even the highest Rasayanas(very best ayurvedic herbal medicines) become obselete. Ayurvedic medicines work to regulate imbalances that have developed. Herbs and food affect the Swara. For example taking a herb with heating qualities, the right nostril will operate. If a cooling one, the left will operate. I am betting that this is how the Rishis of old came to classify all the herbs and foods as either heating or cooling - by observing their effects on swara. |
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vishnuessoo
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2005 : 06:23:41 AM
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Hi Good looking people, this is my first message from the AYP.
I would like to add something on Patanjali yoga sutras.First, I'll let you know how I got into Yoga twenty five years ago. I was in the library and pick up a book called Yoga sutras of Patanjali by Pundit Usharbudh Arya and now is Swami Veda Barahti,and he is the disciple of late Swami Rama.This is the first book I picked up and I didn't know anything about yoga at this time.
As I stared reading it there was a flash in my mind and I said to myself this is it, this is what I have been looking in my life.
Since that day I never turn back, and I was very fortunate to find a very learned man teaching me the whole four chapters, his name his Peter Harisson.
Patanjali is not spiritual, it's a science about life or you might say both combine together.It is so precise as 2+2 equal 4.
What Patanjali teaches is to purify the mind and make it one pointed, with one pointed and purify mind you can go very far in your meditation.(Without practicing Yamas and Niyamas you are still the same old fool)
Thanks Yogani Ji for a wonderful site and give me this opportunity to share my experience with these wonderful people.
The Guru is witin you.
essoo |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2005 : 09:58:28 AM
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| Here's another practical application of Swara Yoga. If you find you are sitting on the toilet, but nothing wants to come out, check your nostrils. Chances are you are breathing from the left nostril. Simply block the left nostril to breathe from the right nostril. Within a few seconds you'll have a nice download:) |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2005 : 12:28:05 PM
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How does this relate to if you already have both nostrils open as in opening of the sushumna?
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2005 : 8:20:44 PM
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I'm not sure i understand your question Dave...
From what I understand, under normal conditions the only time both nostrils naturally operate is at sunrise, noon, and sunset. Also very briefly when one nostril switches to the other naturally. Other time is when you have done alternate nostril breathing. By doing alternate nostril breathing what you are doing is forcing both nostrils to operate, to go through sushumna - in preparation for meditation. The reason why scriptures say that best time for meditation is at sunrise and sunset, is because these are times where naturally both nostrils operate, facilitating meditation.
Under normal circumstances, i don't think both nostrils naturally operate at the same time for extended periods of time. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2005 : 11:21:13 AM
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Hi,
According to my teachings opening of the sushumna is indicated by opening of both nostrils on a permanent basis. I will ask my guru for further info on this and send in a more detailed report.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2005 : 11:21:08 PM
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Yes, that's what they say. Of course, I won't know until I take the pebbles out........
;) |
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mystiq
India
62 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2005 : 11:58:46 AM
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Being an Indian Id like to comment on the question of Anthem on the difference between vedanta and Jnana. The difference has already been explained by Yogani, but Id like to give the literal meaning. Veda means the holy books of the Indian subcontinent mainly being Rig, Sama, Yajur, and Atharva. Anta means the end so vedanta means the end of veda (or holy books). So vedanta starts where veda stops. So in a way vedanta means that which cannot be taught by scriptures. Jnana means knowledge and vigjana means wisdom. Atma jnana means self knowledge. Ad means (not) and dwaita means (two). Therefore advaita means (not two). These are the literal meanings as far as I know it. This branch of Yoga is based on the presumption that knowledge has the power to transform and hence theoretical knowledge will work out the practical aspects of enlightenment by itself. No comments on the efficacy.
mystiq |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2005 : 1:33:23 PM
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thanks for elaborating mystiq.
A
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2005 : 1:43:35 PM
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I'm not an Indian (is it relevant?), but I've studied Vedanta with one of the leading teachers, Swami Dayananda, and can state that Vedanta definitely does consider the scriptures quite closely. Though anyone studying any topic realizes that the wisdom to be gleaned must be found at a higher level than at the literal word.
"Not two" is another way of saying non-duality. We struggle - both in English and in Sanskrit - to explain the concept, always falling into the inherent trap that all language is dualistic. Vedanta (which most people equate with advaita - though there's endless splintering) is the study of the Hindu scriptures with a mystical perspective. Its purpose - and the purpose of the scriptures themselves - is to bring you out of the delusion of separateness. Unity. Not two.
This is identical to the goal of yoga, but yoga is more practice oriented, less study oriented...as Yogani says above. I think Yogani is a little harsh, though, in saying the vedanta approach is just about talking and thinking about union than actually achieving it. But what he's saying is certainly true of many adherents (on the other hand, it's true of many yogis, too!).
There is an obvious pitfall in using the mind to transcend the mind, and that's what both vedanta people and jnana yogi do. For this reason Zen Buddhists call this the single most egregious error a human being can make. Indeed, there are many many vedanta people and jnana yogis out there trapped in mazes of the mind, who believe they're enlightened. But, again, there are many raja and hatha yogis who are similarly self-deluded.
It's messy and difficult to talk about. My advice, fwiw, is as follows: do AYP religiously, like clockwork. And read some of the non-duality stuff IF it speaks to you (again, Sailor Bob's the best guy for this culture at this time.....Ramana Maharshi is an evergreen, but he can only be fit into any of these categories with a crowbar). That way you get the best of all worlds. If it doesn't speak to you, relax. You can get there from "I Am" anyway! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 21 2005 1:46:51 PM |
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Swara Yoga and Helping Patanjali
