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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 2:13:10 PM
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Are you tantric? What does it mean tantric? What makes one system tantric, and another not tantric? Who can say "I'm practicing tantra yoga"? How do we discern?
I know I can Google it, but does anyone here have clear ideas about this? I would appreciate your insights.
Thanks,
Roman |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 4:15:46 PM
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Hi Mimirom,
quote:
Are you tantric? What does it mean tantric? What makes one system tantric, and another not tantric? Who can say "I'm practicing tantra yoga"? How do we discern?
I know I can Google it, but does anyone here have clear ideas about this? I would appreciate your insights.
Thanks,
Roman
I believe that in the intro to Yogani's book on Tantra Yoga, there is a good section on what Tantra really means. Unfortunately (for me) I haven't read the book, but you may like to. 
Basically Tantra is Yoga. In fact Tantra is more than Yoga, as Tantra has been around longer than Yoga has, and is broader in its outlook. The simplest way to understand Tantra is that it is Yoga as celebration. Everything in Tantra is sacred, and is celebrated as that. There is no aspect of life that is not relevant to the spiritual path, and which cannot be taken up as a part of the Yoga and transformed into the Divine life.
At some point, some Yogis (practicing Tantra) decided that they did not like some of the practices that were being used. At that point a schism occurred between two groups of Yogis... those that were happy to celebrate all of life as Yoga, and those that wanted a more conservative approach to spiritual transformation. The real issue was around sex (of course), but some other practices were frowned upon also. So today in India, the vast majority of Yogis practicing Brahmacharya will be celibates. Only a few Yogis are Tantric, and can engage in sexual practices if they choose, remembering of course that Brahmacharya (walking in the way of the Divine) means the preservation and higher cultivation of sexual energy.
Essentially for the Tantric Yogi, Yoga begins with acceptance and moves on to celebration through ecstasy. For the more conservative Yogi, Yoga often begins with restrictions (things that should be avoided) and moves on to celebration through ecstasy. I have followed both paths over the years and can recommend both.
AYP is essentially Tantric, which is why you will not see any lesson by Yogani on how you should abstain from sex and alcohol (for example). In the modern Western world the word "Tantra" has become a kind of pseudonym for sex, and often when people talk about Tantra the are talking about sexual practices which have a "spiritual" (or pseudo- spiritual) touch to them. In this forum you will see the word "Tantra" often used to refer to outward sexual practices which are pre-orgasmic or orgasmic without involving ejaculation.
Christi
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 7:40:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I have followed both paths over the years and can recommend both.
Christi
Great post Christi! |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 10:04:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The simplest way to understand Tantra is that it is Yoga as celebration.
Beautiful. I've never looked at it this way, but this is consistent with my understanding.
Embrace all of life with openness and love. Love. Accept. See Beauty. Drop all concepts. This is how I see it.
With Love
cosmic |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 11:34:50 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 12:03:04 AM
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From my point of view, tantra means the use of meditational deities and their associated mantras, yantras and mandalas.
Most of the Hindu Gods were originally meditational deities. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 14 2009 12:12:39 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 02:00:45 AM
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Hi Alwayson2,
quote:
From my point of view, tantra means the use of meditational deities and their associated mantras, yantras and mandalas.
Most of the Hindu Gods were originally meditational deities.
Yes, there are some practitioners of Tantra Yoga who make use of deities as part of their meditation practices. Deities are also used as part of the meditation practices for many non-Tantric Yogis.
Christi |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 02:18:01 AM
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Now I am confused
Original poster was not clear in which "tantra" he/she wanted to be defined. There is Eastern and Western "tantras".
If you say "tantra" in academia or in the East, it means meditational deities, plus mantra, yantra and mandalas. This moderate paradigm is the foundation upon which even "extreme" practice such as Aghora and energy body practice are built. Tantric hinduism eventually gave way to bhakti/devotional religion by the time of Islam and later the British. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 14 2009 04:44:40 AM |
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 02:30:06 AM
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The word 'Tantra' means Technique, the method, the path. It is not concerned with the "why" of things, it is concerned with "how"; not with what is truth, but how the truth can be attained.
The Book of Secrets - Osho <http://rapidshare.com/files/8233179...rets.pdf>
Hi Roman
The above book is very good and a rare one on 'Vigyan Bhairav Tantra' of Lord Shiva. I started reading it a few months ago and I am at page 300 now. I read it occasionally but I can say its the best book I ever read.
In my view, whosoever is trying to wake up is a Tantric.
But in India, with the passage of time and pollution of the mind, Tantric has become generally known as a person who has gained some Siddhis, can perform Exorcism, has sex with the spirits in the dead at the cemetery etc. etc... everybody is afraid of the Tantrics and disregard them... outcast of society.
The real meaning has been forgotten.
quote:
Originally posted by mimirom
Are you tantric?
Yes... indeed :) |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 12:16:04 PM
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manig, I see you are from India like myself. As you know Hinduism itself is tantric, so how can tantrics be outcastes? Of course the extreme tantrics are...I agree with that. I do see that you are saying that the true meaning has been forgotten.
This is a good resource here:
http://www.siddha.com.my/religionof...hapter1.html
BTW, contrary to the author's view, academics ARE aware of EVERYTHING he postulates here. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 14 2009 12:53:56 PM |
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 1:45:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
manig, I see you are from India like myself. As you know Hinduism itself is tantric, so how can tantrics be outcastes? Of course the extreme tantrics are...I agree with that. I do see that you are saying that the true meaning has been forgotten.
This is a good resource here:
http://www.siddha.com.my/religionof...hapter1.html
BTW, contrary to the author's view, academics ARE aware of EVERYTHING he postulates here.
if you are a tantric
there is no ism
there is no india |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 07:15:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Mimirom,
quote:
Are you tantric? What does it mean tantric? What makes one system tantric, and another not tantric? Who can say "I'm practicing tantra yoga"? How do we discern?
I know I can Google it, but does anyone here have clear ideas about this? I would appreciate your insights.
Thanks,
Roman
I believe that in the intro to Yogani's book on Tantra Yoga, there is a good section on what Tantra really means. Unfortunately (for me) I haven't read the book, but you may like to.
Basically Tantra is Yoga. In fact Tantra is more than Yoga, as Tantra has been around longer than Yoga has, and is broader in its outlook. The simplest way to understand Tantra is that it is Yoga as celebration. Everything in Tantra is sacred, and is celebrated as that. There is no aspect of life that is not relevant to the spiritual path, and which cannot be taken up as a part of the Yoga and transformed into the Divine life.
At some point, some Yogis (practicing Tantra) decided that they did not like some of the practices that were being used. At that point a schism occurred between two groups of Yogis... those that were happy to celebrate all of life as Yoga, and those that wanted a more conservative approach to spiritual transformation. The real issue was around sex (of course), but some other practices were frowned upon also. So today in India, the vast majority of Yogis practicing Brahmacharya will be celibates. Only a few Yogis are Tantric, and can engage in sexual practices if they choose, remembering of course that Brahmacharya (walking in the way of the Divine) means the preservation and higher cultivation of sexual energy.
Essentially for the Tantric Yogi, Yoga begins with acceptance and moves on to celebration through ecstasy. For the more conservative Yogi, Yoga often begins with restrictions (things that should be avoided) and moves on to celebration through ecstasy. I have followed both paths over the years and can recommend both.
AYP is essentially Tantric, which is why you will not see any lesson by Yogani on how you should abstain from sex and alcohol (for example). In the modern Western world the word "Tantra" has become a kind of pseudonym for sex, and often when people talk about Tantra the are talking about sexual practices which have a "spiritual" (or pseudo- spiritual) touch to them. In this forum you will see the word "Tantra" often used to refer to outward sexual practices which are pre-orgasmic or orgasmic without involving ejaculation.
Christi
Hi Christi,
what a nice and friendly explanation! Thanks. Even I can understand it this way, and have a much better feeling now about my own yoga.
I read Yogani's Tantra book a couple months ago and found it to be the best source on sexual yoga so far (in terms of actual practice.)
The first page goes this way: "The ancient field of Tantra is so broad that it defies description. Not only does it include all of the practices contained in the traditional systems of Yoga...", and I had this in mind when I posted my questions...
It was a recent important encounter that made me question my own worldview and my approach to spirituality and practices. I attracted a Guru. Our first meeting took place last week, during a 5 day Yoga therapy seminar. We had to fill in an entering form and there was a box "What school of Yoga are you following:" I wasn't sure suddenly and put "hatha yoga/Tantra." The other day Acharyaji talked to me and said "You know, you are the only person doing Tantra here. What school?" And I said "Well, I follow the eight-limbed path of Patanjali," and he raised his hands and exclaimed "But what school!? There has to be a lineage, you know?"
So I went home, took all the Yogani's writings and showed them to Acharyaji. He pointed with his finger and spelled "YO-GA-NI" That was kind of nice actually I explained that I don't know what lineage it is, and why. He went through the books briefly and gave it back happily saying "...will be more in the Satyananda tradition."
Well, slowly, slowly, I'll find my place in this vast field...
Also thank you Always and Manig, I'm always learning from you guys.
Roman |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 10:04:38 AM
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Hi Roman and all, great question.
Great post Christi, very clear.
I read a nice book that, in my view, explains tantra and the tantric path (with all it's multi-faceted aspects and idiosincracies) that I recommend and has been mentioned before in the forums: Tantric Quest by Daniel Odier. It is a personal account of an apprenticeship with a woman tantric master.
quote:
But in India, with the passage of time and pollution of the mind, Tantric has become generally known as a person who has gained some Siddhis, can perform Exorcism, has sex with the spirits in the dead at the cemetery etc. etc... everybody is afraid of the Tantrics and disregard them... outcast of society.
Hi Manig, yes that is my idea also, and also mentioned in this book briefly. Tantric masters seem to be sometimes looked upon as 'blood-sucking demons' - just to give an example of a stereotype And this preconceptions are not only an 'exculusive' of India, nor of the present time. Remember for example the burning of 'witches' (and the inquisition in general) in the middle ages all over Europe...a true presecution of mystics and mystical traditions, or anything away from secular religion - particularly if it is a celebration of the creator and the creation in life (like Tantra). Fortunately we seem to be living more open times, as this very website is a testament of.
Walk on! |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 10:43:58 AM
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"Tantra" can best be understood as "warp/woof/woven." It an can be understood as continuum. I can also be understood as technique.
Most appropriately "Tantra" can be understood as the tradition of sacred texts known as the "Tantras," which are even 5000 years old.
"Yoga" is better understood as the fruit of Tantra, the union, at-one-ment. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2009 : 11:23:14 AM
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Hi all,
Here is an interesting definition from a free online dictionary:
quote:
Tantra - doctrine of enlightenment as the realization of the oneness of one's self and the visible world; combines elements of Hinduism and paganism including magical and mystical elements like mantras and mudras and erotic rites; especially influential in Tibet
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tantra
Interesting to compare this with the definition of enlightenment given by Yogani in the main lessons:
quote:
The ultimate destination is enlightenment. What is enlightenment? A state of balanced union between our two natures: pure bliss consciousness, and our sensory involvement on this physical earth. That is the definition of yoga, and the destination of all religion.
http://www.aypsite.org/35.html
And here is a definition of Tantra by David White from the Wikipedia site:
quote:
Tantra is that Asian body of beliefs and practices which, working from the principle that the universe we experience is nothing other than the concrete manifestation of the divine energy of the Godhead that creates and maintains that universe, seeks to ritually appropriate and channel that energy, within the human microcosm, in creative and emancipatory ways.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra
Spinal breathing pranayama... the ritual appropriation and channelling of the Divine energy of the universe within the human microcosm, leading to, emancipation.
Enjoy.
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Edited by - Christi on Sep 15 2009 1:34:04 PM |
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What do you mean, "Tantra" ?
