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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 07:22:12 AM
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Received in email:
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In the early evening of Thursday, November 27, His Divine Presence, Avatar Adi Da Samraj, Departed from the Body. He was in His Fijian Hermitage, Adi Da Samrajashram (the Island of Naitauba). His Passing was entirely peaceful and free of any struggle. He Passed of natural causes. At the time of His Passing, He was Working in His Art Studio, surrounded by devotees who were engaged in serving His Artwork. On November 30, His Body was interred in the most sacred Place of Adidam - the secluded Temple which Avatar Adi Da established in 1993 (at Adi Da Samrajashram) as His burial place. On the morning of His Passing, He had completed His Writing of The Aletheon, the book which He designated as "first and foremost" among all of His Writings. Avatar Adi Da worked on The Aletheon intensively for the last two years, bringing all of His most essential Spiritual and philosophical communications into a final form. The Aletheon is scheduled for publication by The Dawn Horse Press in 2009. His Divine Presence Bequeathed to humankind a Legacy of Inexhaustible Profundity and Limitless Blessing-Power.
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For more information on Adi Da, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidam
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2009 : 7:29:39 PM
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Interestingly, this teacher, though primarily advocating a guru bhakti approach, also taught a few practices. One of these was (is?) Spiritual Conductivity. SC sounds like a form of AYP Spinal Pranayama but in a Microcosmic Orbit orientation, that is using also the frontal line. This was also combined with a form of meditation. That's all I know, not being part of it, and the practices could have of course changed.
-- jo-self
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2009 : 11:09:46 AM
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Yikes! I suppose Yogani has given Adi Da a de-facto endorsement of a sort, by posting the way he has here. Time to balance the thread a little.
One of Adi Da's core teachings is that he is the most (and only) fully realized being of -- wait for it -- the entire universe of universes.
His system of 'bhakti' yoga is the worship of himself, in his human bodily form -- not as an abstraction, not as a representative of the Divine, but as the divine itself. As incarnated God. No ifs, ands or buts about this, that's the core 'technique' of Adidam: Adi Da is God, and you worship Him. Just like Jesus is God in the Christian tradition, or Rama is God in the Hindu. You even use capitals on the pronoun for Him, if you have any manners! 
As is to be expected, not many people seem to have made much spiritual progress using that technique. That 'technique', if you can call it that, is ancient, primitive and atavistic, and never really worked at all, and I would say generally comes into existence due to the desires and needs of the teacher, not the students. It led to disaster for the organization of course. Nothing new about that. When you worship a living person as God, things go wrong. Why? Perhaps the real God doesn't like it?
I know something about Adidam because I knew someone who was involved in it. There are great websites out there, explaining the phenomenon of Adi Da, in some cases in a very mature way. I'm not sure Yogani will permit links directly to those websites though. There are many true things about historical gurus that are not to be said or linked to on the forum, while distorted ones in their favor are allowed.
This is a form of 'yoga' I would advise no-one to get involved in -- ever. I wouldn't really call it yoga myself. I don't think it deserves the name.
P.S.
One thing I see as a virtue in Adidam though is that, while I don't think worshipping any human being as God is a good idea, they are not sneaky about it. It's out there, clear in black-and-white in their written teachings, that Adi Da is God, and the practice is to worship Him. For every one organization that does this (establishes a worship of their leader) consciously, overtly and honestly, there must be 100 that do essentially the same thing but unconsciously, insidiously, and with denial.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 13 2009 2:50:04 PM |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2009 : 12:26:36 PM
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David:
I hope it did not appear that I was advertising That path or practice. Just an information snippet about the ascend/descend technique. And, I don't think Yogani is endorsing him.
I am well aware of the controversial stuff associated with that teacher. I was never part of it. But, during my own search came upon his books. His early ones did have a very good critique of the yogic internalization and that helped me to not fall for in for the nonsense. Remember, in the 70's there were many groups promising enlightenment: listening to sounds, lights, and I bet even sticking one's fingers up the nose advanced technique. It was nuts. It seems there is a rebirth that the web is making even more accessible.
Also, I don't think I believe the "crazy wisdom" approach. Seems to easy to fall into abusive relationships.
A book that analyzes this subject (but seems to waver undecidedly in coming to a conclusion) is:
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Madness-...18441&sr=8-8
peace
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2009 : 6:54:40 PM
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Hi David! good to "see" you.
David said:
"When you worship a living person as God, things go wrong. Why? Perhaps the real God doesn't like it?"
i don't believe that, IMHO. I think there are plenty of examples of people doing utterly idiotic things and still coming out OK. I think we have complete freedom of choice, and the consequences come from our actions, not the wrath of God. If I was a creator of a kingdom of ants, and some ants worshipped another, I wouldn't care. It would make a funny play to watch.
"There are many true things about historical gurus that are not to be said or linked to on the forum, while distorted ones in their favor are allowed."
I think the criterion is: positive stuff allowed, tearing down not. Many lessons can be learned from even the worst of teachers, and people who aren't teachers at all. So we are likely to have members who look up to gurus who may have no validity at all in other eyes. So AYP protects members by not allowing trashing of people no matter if they may deserve it.
Our inner guru guides us to lessons, and someone may learn a lesson from a disgusting drug addict murderer laying in the street, and perhaps see the divinity in him. So AYP honors that divinity. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2009 : 5:17:18 PM
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Hi Ether,
good to 'see' you too.
i don't believe that, IMHO. I think there are plenty of examples of people doing utterly idiotic things and still coming out OK.
Actually, I don't literally believe in any such 'god' either that actually likes or dislikes -- so I'm not sure we disagree. 'God doesn't like it' is to me just a metaphorical way of saying that it is unwise or inappropriate.
To those of us brought up in the Judeao-Christian tradition, the sense that such a relationship is inappropriate is deeply traditional. The ancient Jews (as brought to us by the Torah and the Old Testament) seem to have developed a tradition that such relationships -- whether to person or thing -- were forbidden by 'God'. Meaning simply, as I translate it, that they are unwise or inappropriate.
I hope that clears it up.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2009 : 5:21:47 PM
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Hi David,
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
To those of us brought up in the Judeao-Christian tradition, the sense that such a relationship is inappropriate is deeply traditional. The ancient Jews (as brought to us by the Torah and the Old Testament) seem to have developed a tradition that such relationships -- whether to person or thing -- were forbidden by 'God'. Meaning simply, as I translate it, that they are unwise or inappropriate.
So you personally believe that The Judeao-Christian tradition has it right? And that there can be no benefit to putting one's faith in a guru and that this is blasphemy?
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 19 2009 7:33:59 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2009 : 11:57:14 AM
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Carson asked:
So you personally believe that The Judeao-Christian tradition has it right?
In this particular respect, I believe yes. It believe it is wiser. The Jews left living gods behind at some point, and arguably, those of us in Europe benefited culturally from their advance.
And that there can be no benefit to putting one's faith in a guru and that this is blasphemy?
Nothing wrong with putting one's faith in anything. The critical question is whether or not your view of some living person or thing has become extreme and imbalanced. If it has, then you've lost a lot of your wisdom (at least with respect to that person).
Regards,
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 20 2009 2:03:10 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2009 : 12:34:02 PM
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Hi David.......
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
In this particular respect, I believe yes. It believe it is wiser. The Jews left living gods behind at some point, and arguably, those of us in Europe benefited culturally from their advance.
OK. But this is just your opinion right? And being an opinion it can't be proven right OR wrong correct? Meaning that those who believe that spiritual liberation can be acheived through the guidance and direction of a living human guru could be just as correct as you are right? It is their opinion versus yours. And there is probably just as much evidence of people progressing down the path towards spiritual liberation through the direction and guidance of a guru, as there is evidence that a lot of gurus are misguided and leading people into a more confused state then they previously were correct?
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Nothing wrong with putting one's faith in anything. The critical question is whether or not your view of some living person or thing has become extreme and imbalanced.
Yes but this has to be up to the individual practitioner to decide for oneself....One cannot answer this question for another. And the only way to get to a point where the question is even relevant is if we are all allowed to make our own mistakes right?
Love,
Carson |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2009 : 1:35:13 PM
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And the only way to get to a point where the question is even relevant is if we are all allowed to make our own mistakes right?
Carson,
I'm opposed to making the worship of living beings illegal if that is your question. I believe in the legal freedom to believe someone is God, and to make the mistakes that go with that -- again, and again, and again....
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2009 : 2:14:00 PM
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Perfect. Me too
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2009 : 7:50:57 PM
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| Bad gurus aside, the mind is the guru. But you may not notice the nature of your mind by yourself, which is why there is guru yoga. Strong devotion to your guru helps soften your mind so that an esoteric transmission is possible. I have not seen this work outside of the Tibetan Buddhist world, because as far as I know they are the one's who do it right, with genuine selfless love and compassion for their students. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4371 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 03:51:07 AM
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Hi TMS,
quote:
Bad gurus aside, the mind is the guru. But you may not notice the nature of your mind by yourself, which is why there is guru yoga. Strong devotion to your guru helps soften your mind so that an esoteric transmission is possible. I have not seen this work outside of the Tibetan Buddhist world, because as far as I know they are the one's who do it right, with genuine selfless love and compassion for their students.
I am sure the Tibetan Buddhists do it right. I have also come accross this system (complete surrender to an enlightened teacher) working beautifully in the Theravadan Buddhist tradition, in the Yogic tradition, in Christianity, and in Suffism.
It is a very effective spiritual path because the teacher is able to see the issues that keep coming up again and again for a particular student (the points where they are really getting stuck in their own minds) and help them to completely let go of those issues and move on.
Christi |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 06:32:26 AM
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quote:
It is a very effective spiritual path because the teacher is able to see the issues that keep coming up again and again for a particular student (the points where they are really getting stuck in their own minds) and help them to completely let go of those issues and move on.
Do you think one must search for a guru or, when one is ready, the right teacher comes to us, even in our western world?
Thanks. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 06:58:46 AM
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Hi YogaIsLife
quote:
Do you think one must search for a guru or, when one is ready, the right teacher comes to us, even in our western world?
I know your question was directed at Christi (and I hope he will answer it ).....but since I am here:
Yes. The guru is always here....but will "come" when you are ready. That goes for both the inner guru and the outer guru. It matters not at all which part of the world you live in. We live where we live because it is the prefect place to be...... in order to....turn inwards. The only reason an outer guru might be needed is because - like Christi said - the stuckness is difficult to transcend on our own. That is also why the Ishtas work so beautifully.
This forum is of great help too. All the inner gurus of the people posting here come together as what it is - one single guru. And all the references...pointers...here, is also enableing the contact with different outer gurus.
There are so many of them.....and though many of them are "dead"....their vibrational resonance is always existing....it is only a matter of tuning in.
There is no difference between the inner guru and the outer guru. The outer guru is never the body we see. It is always the vibrational essence.
Love |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 07:45:40 AM
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Hi YogaIsLife,
you might like to add on the right teachings as well and yes it seems so that when we are ready nature provides...
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 08:53:33 AM
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Absolutely. The whole concept that something may be missing and that we need to make a special effort; go someplace, find someone, depend on outside energy - is an illusion.
Not that it isn't necessary to do things - twice daily practices are particularly important. But what I am saying is you already have what you need, so no wishing for something else is necessary. If you decide to live your life day by day and not constantly imagine that great things will happen in the future, it helps a lot.
of course you will still make an effort for future things. But those should be in the background, with the here and now filling most of your consciousness.
Where the real power is: take that wishing for the right guru, or whatever your great desire is, and convert it to bhakti. it is very powerful. This removes the idea that something isn't right "yet". You must turn the longing for something, into knowing your highest ideal is close, that just a small change in your body can bring it to you. That way you know nothing is really missing.
There are some physical things that make a great difference and you could try each one for a while to see. Try quitting caffeine a couple weeks, try saving all sexual energy a couple months. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 11:47:46 AM
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There is that saying, "when the student is ready the teacher appears" which is misleading imo. Gurus are everywhere and people search for them, not the other way around.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 12:15:05 PM
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Thanks guys for the answers. You say what I suspected No need to go anywhere, it is all here and now.
But this time it is not that I need a teacher, it is that sometimes I think I would like a teacher. It's a growing desire in my heart more than a need. And it happened naturally, like lookign at a sunset. I just feel it would be nice. I felt it when I read other people's stories, from "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" to "The Chasm of Fire". It just happened, I did not search for it. I just read about these teachers and get fascinated by them. Isn't it how it goes - desire and then acting on it?
I do beleive as well that whatever you need comes to you naturally. Especially if your heart desires it. No need for effort, "just" true desire Although desire is like a fire inside and as such can require some "effort" to deal with so one does not gets burned I feel I am happiest when all of this is quite natural - there is a longing inside and then later I find somethign that resonates clearly with it. It is quite magical. It happened with AYP for example
So yes, I do believe that desire brings you what you need or want, sooner or later, but not necessarily how your mind pictures it. True, all the same.
Thanks! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2009 : 4:10:21 PM
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TMS said:
I have not seen this work outside of the Tibetan Buddhist world, because as far as I know they are the one's who do it right, with genuine selfless love and compassion for their students.
Well, the Tibetan's neither have a monopoly on responsible gurudom, nor are free from irresponsible gurudom by any means. I'm not sure there are useful generalizations to be drawn in this matter.
Christi said:
It is a very effective spiritual path because the teacher is able to see the issues that keep coming up again and again for a particular student (the points where they are really getting stuck in their own minds) and help them to completely let go of those issues and move on.
Good. I'm not actually opposed to Guru Yoga myself, which might surprise some people. There are a few essential ingredients: a highly-skilled and responsible teacher, uninclined towards abuses of power; and a student who, in their own way is ready, which should include the knowledge that their teacher is a human being and subject to some limits.
A third ingredient for it to work best might be that the guru has personal time for the student. I'm not so sure how well the system works in a situation like that of the Da group in which basically no-one gets near Adi Da at all--unless after sufficient years of prostration and devotion(=handing most of your cash over).
Another way of saying this is that maybe some things just can't be done on a mass scale. Maybe it's like psychiatry in that respect. If someone is going to be a psychiatrist to thousands, is that going to work out well?
But there are teachers who perform a powerful symbolic guru role -- and to thousands -- and therefore can't perform a personalized function. This can work out OK too (is Amma an example of this?). But where it works out well, those teachers know not to invade too much. Not being able to be present in a literal sense, they won't make too many demands either.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 23 2009 10:04:52 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 11:17:33 AM
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Hi David,
Yes,the personal touch is lost when there are so many followers.Actually when I was in the ashram at Xmas, guruji made this point regarding promotion and marketing.He said that if someone promoted him in a big way he would not have access(and vice versa)to his disciples in the same way he does now.We had his darshan twice a day for 2 weeks while I was there this time and personal time with him several times.I left at 6.30 am for my plane and he took time to see me before I left,gave me a blessing and an infusion of energy.
L&L
Dave |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 1:16:28 PM
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Hi David
quote:
But there are teachers who perform a powerful symbolic guru role -- and to thousands -- and therefore can't perform a personalized function. This can work out OK too (is Amma an example of this?)
Just to say that being with Amma those days in November......and getting two hugs from her........I have never felt more intimately touched inside ever. And her impression doesn't seem to leave me. What she does in her silent non-doing......is beyond explaining, but for many - she is so much more than just a symbolic guru.
The love radiating from her is very, very palpable. It is almost impossible not to be affected by it.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 2:26:09 PM
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Katrine sai:d
she is so much more than just a symbolic guru.
I believe you! Well, I don't mean anything diminishing by saying the role was 'symbolic'..... Perhaps 'schermazaplaazazoic' is a better word than symbolic..... And indeed, the hug does count as a personalized touch!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 3:09:41 PM
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Hi David
quote:
Perhaps 'schermazaplaazazoic' is a better word than symbolic
*laughing and laughing*
Thanks |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 7:11:52 PM
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| Good guru=from established lineage able to point the student to the true nature of mind. Guru=mind. Bhakti=devotion to meditation [period] |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Feb 23 2009 7:24:38 PM |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2010 : 1:37:46 PM
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While cleaning out my old books I came across "The Four Fundamental Questions" by Da Free John.
Below are the four questions, and of course the very small book is a discussion of each and the obligatory 'I am the only true and highest guru' nonsense. (for once I'd like to hear an awakened one admit that yes they are awake, but yes, they are still an asshole.]
quote:
1. Are you the one who is living you now?
2. What is your relationship to that One?
3. Do you know what anything is?
4. What is your relationship to all experience, and to every being and
thing that exists?
I like question 3, that one seems to be very powerful, the rest, bah. Nothing came out of this "teaching" stunt. It was probably a means to generate more donations.
Anyway, I don't think we should lose any works that are part of human dharma. Some alien creatures may want to study all this one day.
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Adi Da (Da Free John) 1939-2008
