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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 01:30:38 AM
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There is now a profound difference in frequence when following the Flow (Life) from the Witness and putting in egoic force and use personal will to control something. It does not matter how tiny or insignificant the act is, choosing which tea bag to put in the cup, or deciding the heat of the water in the shower... Whenever the old emc with her preferences tries to act from personal wants and needs, there is a drop in frequency, contraction in the awareness field and sometimes... there is such tension it leads to a muscular cramp.
What I have noticed, is the absolute Grace with which Life chooses in those situations... If the old "I" don't interfere, but surrender, Life often (not always) chooses according to the preferences anyway!
It's as if... all emc ever wanted and strived for, is now given. Effortlessly.
Then there is a strange sorrow... when "I" finally started to like "myself" and start to be given what I ever wanted, then emc is no more... and the enjoyment from what I ever wanted... is not for ME personally... It is consciousness enjoying the experience and sensations. It's impersonal.
Yogani,
This is not totally clear yet... is it something like... our personal will is sensed as "free will" (http://www.aypsite.org/103.html) as long as we identify as the body-mind? So when we speak in terms of "It's our choice whether we do our practices daily with sincerity or just do unengaged practices now and then". Then there is a need for the personal will to make a choice to follow the path.
But the farther we come, and we are "taken over" by Stillness in action, the personal will must finally be surrendered totally...
So when in witness... where is the personal will? Haven't we left it then? And surrendered to what is? That's how I perceive it.
So when Christi says "Keep an eye of the crown opening"... who is to keep an eye on it? The witness?  If I, emc, with personal will tries to alter the Flow... I have to go into mind... and there is friction in the field somehow.
The personal will is very much located in the throat chakra... the last chakra to release its blockages (very much expressed as tension in the jaws)! During the retreat, very much work was done on the throat chakra. It's about letting go of that self-control... to surrender, relax and let the stillness just come and take you... to fall backwards, without knowing what's behind... and just feel so safe... so safe... and just fall...
Or will we still have any chance at all to use any will after surrender? Or.. is our personal will to merge with the Universal will, so that we Want all that Life brings?
"You can have all you want"
"You can want all you have"
Is it possible to combine the letting go in any way with "keep an eye on the crown opening", which from my current perspective would be an expression of self-control again... |
Edited by - emc on Nov 17 2008 01:33:57 AM |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 10:46:40 AM
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Hi emc:
Human will becomes divine will when we are able to let go of analyzing for its own sake and just do or not do according to whatever circumstance we are in. Then the divine flow is happening, and it is us.
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 1:30:26 PM
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I'm obviously having questions still, so the mind and will is not surrendered... There's just a lot of wobbling...
Adyashanti mentioned in one youtube video about the Secret, that he only uses it deliberately to get parking places... otherwise he is more interested in seeing what life unfolds for him. Does that means he can switch to some type of personal will suddenly? Even though the "person" clearly must be seen as a fake at his level of realization. Or would even that be included and known as the universal will?From this twilight zone it's really confusing...
And thanks Yogani, but it doesn't get any clearer from your answer.
It's like... I start to find it ridiculous with all accusations against different realized teachers or gurus... if they are surrendered... then they move as stillness in action, and if others interpret their actions as based in egoistic desires... it's their projections.
You get accused sometimes of running this forum from egoistic agendas... It must be seen as ridiculous, if everything done here and written here is Life 'doing' it, through the vehicle of Yogani. Or do you ever sense that anything is from your will? Can a realized person ever go back to having a personal agenda of any kind? Is the egoic will so sneaky? |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 2:05:46 PM
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So is there a separate doer somewhere? Someone who has a sneaky egoic will? :)
Is there an emc separate from something that could be or not be affected by her?
It depends on perception. With identified perception, a seemingly separate entity is created. From there these questions arise. The solution and answer to you is to dissolve them in stillness. There is no other answer that would permanently satisfy you :)
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 2:12:18 PM
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Hi emc:
But it is all personal and it is all divine. One cannot be separated from the other. There really isn't any difference. The only difference happens when we finally are able to accept it as it is, and that we can easily do in stillness. All of the discussions about ego and getting rid of ego are fabrications of the mind. The concept of ego itself is a fabrication. If a realized person acts egotistically, then that is what is happening at the moment. We can debate endlessly whether or not that is a realized person acting that way. The question (if there is one) is whether action is undertaken with attachment to the outcome or is occurring in stillness, i.e., radiating divine essence/love, even if it seems not to be. There is no answer to that riddle!
Everyone wants a good parking place, even the realized, but it is not life and death for them. The bad parking place will surely have a silver lining, because everything does. So in stillness we choose, and accept what comes.
It will never be captured in the mind, because it is a complete paradox. Realization is not about "getting it." It is about "becoming it," and that is why we do practices, which unravel and simplify the whole thing.
No matter what path we are on, the mind always has a lesser role to play, not a greater one. We use the mind to take actions that lead to transcendence of the mind. The mind will still be there as stillness in action, and it will then still be us making the choices as That.
Things do not change that much. We just see more clearly, that's all. When we can see, the struggle and the suffering end, even as we go on doing what we are called to do.
The guru is in you.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 2:27:59 PM
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You are trying to solve the unsolvable riddle my dear friend emc! I loved reading yogani's post. Long time I wanted to see it written: "All of the discussions about ego and getting rid of ego are fabrications of the mind. The concept of ego itself is a fabrication.". Beautiful!
It is so simple we have a tendency not to grasp it: life simply is. It is the "flow" that you mention. The moment you think or question it you are obstructing the flow. I feel guilty almost writing this as I feel like I am obstructing the flow right now just by (trying to) put it into words!
It is great when we find practices/activities that just desconnect the mind and allow us to be. No questions on "my" will or "god's" will then. Just good feeling of being and doing what one likes without analysing.
and now i'm gonna go meditate...let it all flow... |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Nov 17 2008 2:41:34 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 4:21:30 PM
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Thanks tadeas, Yogani and Yogaislife. I guess it's since I'm having this body doing what its doing whether I want it or not, and I'm stuck in this Matrix Train Station, it naturally leads me to inqure what I still sense to be actions with an agenda from 'own will' (attachments to the outcome) and actions unfolding. We all have different perceptions and perspectives of what's happening during this purification process when we develop the art of detachment as a way out of a separated state.
It's very much talk about detachment from thoughts. I have recently found out what detachment from emotions is. Now, the will seems even more imbedded than thoughts and emotions in the 'system' that brings on a sense of separation (what we call it is not important). I just thought, just as we inquire the other phenomena, why can't we inquire the will just as we inquire thoughts to see if they are True or not? But perhaps it's not a fruitful way as you say. We'll see...
Thanks anyway for your answers. I'll take them with me. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 4:49:47 PM
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Hi emc:
Yes, we can inquire about our will and our actions that bring discomfort. In stillness, we can inquire into the truth of such impulses and actions. We can release what is untrue in them even as they are occurring, much the way we can release our attachment to the motives and actions of others, or whatever else might be happening.
But that does not mean we will not continue to act as we did before for some time (maybe indefinitely), or that others will not continue to act as they did before. We will only be less attached to the impulses occurring within and around us. Self-inquiry can help with that.
Patterns of identification will tend to weaken over time as we no longer feed them, and then behavior can change (maybe long after the fact). The weakening of identification and eventual behavior change are not primary causes. They are effects. Better to attend to causes. Then the effects will be there sooner or later, and we don't have to dwell on them in the meantime.
It always gets back to cultivating stillness and acting from there, allowing life to happen while participating fully in the mode we are in, whatever that is, warts and all. Then it gradually becomes easier to let go of what is untrue. As we are more in stillness, we reside in untruth less, even as its residual may still be occurring there within us. We can let it go even as it happens. This change cannot be conjured up in the mind. It can't happen much until we have abiding inner silence. So we meditate. Then the inquiry will be increasingly in relationship with stillness rather than identified with the thing we are inquiring about, or tangled up in the process of inquiry itself.
The guru is in you.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 5:13:52 PM
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My God Yogani, thank you for your words. It is good to hear that.
I like the way you simplify and lighten things up. Some "teachers" (or philosophies, or viewpoints) can be so disconcerting sometimes, so unfanthomable, so "out there". When I hear some other viewpoints it is like "oh, I have to be like that, I'll never understand that, etc." and it all seems so difficult to grasp. It makes me wallow even deeper in the mud. You have a way of making it sound simple, common place, ordinary, and light. You bring it all back home. Thank you for the beautiful reminder. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 8:55:29 PM
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| Thank you Yogani for such wonderful posts, feels peaceful just to read them. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 12:47:30 AM
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Thank you, Yogani. Then what I am experiencing is in line with what you are saying. There's still much insecurities and wobbling here, so I still need guidance. Thank you for giving a map in this strange territory.
Found this Adyashanti video on personal will...
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=HcJ_XZyNw-Q |
Edited by - emc on Nov 18 2008 04:47:48 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 08:17:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
There's still much insecurities and wobbling here, so I still need guidance.
All you need is practice and trust.. drop the questioning and figuring out with your mind and keep up your twice a day practice like brushing your teeth.
The closer you get to an opening.. the more desperate your mind's need for answers gets.. and the stronger the requirement of letting go is.. just sink into the question.. into the discomfort.. into the wanting to know.. but don't answer it... don't look toward anyone else for the answer.. people can only give you knowledge (their experience of the truth).. you have to get the knowing.. and the knowing will flow in silence.
Yogani's replies above are so simple and beautiful.. Adya's Emptiness Dancing is so simple and beautiful.. but your understanding of it's simplicity, or rather the non-understanding (understanding happens at the mind level, non-understanding happens beyond the mind) of it's simplicity will come once you have experienced it. When you have an answer your mind "gets".. remember you just satisfied your mind.. and the mind will be back with more questions... but when you have an answer from within.. the mind will be struggling to understand why you are at peace. The mind will analyze the joy and peace and try and attach meanings to the non-understanding in order to make it an understanding, so it can be repeated and analyzed and a few more questions can be created... because the mind did not "get" the answer. The mind will be slightly uncomfortable and slightly mystified and slightly uneasy.. but there will be a smile on your face and a joy flowing from your heart. That is why the knowing is said to be beyond the mind.
You helped me find answers to similar things I was going thru here.. I am just going to point you back to your reply.
Remember, the question is not important.. it really does not matter what new questions the mind brings up.. the only thing important is realizing there is a question and not trying to understand it or answer it with the mind... but let it go in silence. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 10:45:35 AM
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Thank you, Shanti. Please keep telling me what I need. I wouldn't have a clue myself, so thanks for stepping in and telling me.  |
Edited by - emc on Nov 18 2008 10:47:35 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 12:40:14 PM
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Hey, emc, if the woman in the video asked a Buddhist Contemplative concerning physical manifestation he/she would probably have cosidered it unimportant (as did Adyashanti)and may have followed with, "although... occasionally I'm in the now when I need to find parking". (LOL)
Take care:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 19 2008 12:59:52 PM |
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Inquiring the personal will
