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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 11:09:05 AM
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Hi EMC,
This may be of interest:
quote:
Not all kundalini experiences are identical to those classical awakenings experienced in yoga, but may vary in intensity and duration. Typically the yogi meditates to arouse the kundalini and then to raise it through his or her body. (It should be remembered though, not all types of yoga are devoted to the arousal of kundalini.) First, the yogi feels the sensation on heat at the base of the spine, which may be intensely hot or pleasantly warm. The energy then travels up a psychic pathway parallel to the spinal column. The sushumna is the central axis, crisscrossed in a helix by the ida and pingala. As it rises the kundalini activates the chakras in succession. The body becomes cold and corpse-like as the kundalini leaves the lower portions and begins to rise. The yogi is likely to shudder, tremble, or rock violently, feel extreme heat and cold, hear strange but not unpleasant sounds, and see various kinds of lights including an inner light. The length of the kundalini may be fleeting or last several minutes. The objective is to raise the kundalini to the crown chakra, where it unites with the Shiva, or the male polarity, and brings illumination.
From: http://www.themystica.com/mystica/a...ndalini.html
Doesn't help much I know... just lets you know you're not the only one!
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 11:49:09 AM
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Hi EMC:
As the old saying goes, "This too shall pass."
Of course, we all like to watch the scenery as it goes by. Some pleasant, some not so pleasant. We take whatever measures are necessary to keep the ride comfortable, and to assure our arrival at the place we already are. They call it "realization." 
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 1:30:25 PM
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It is unbelieveable "I'm" going through this realization. My mind is in constant chock!   Thank's for your calming pat on the shoulder, Yogani. But hey, any suggestions on how to do spinal breathing when breath is short, shallow, hasty and full of stops? Just jump up and down with the visualization to root and ajna, or try to do longer, slower breaths?
Steve, thanks for your suggestions. I might try the tests! If I do I'll come back to report results.
And Christi, thanks also. All info taken in! |
Edited by - emc on Jan 29 2008 1:32:36 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 1:40:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
It is unbelieveable "I'm" going through this realization. My mind is in constant chock!
The mind has no part in anything spiritual (except to constantly try to own and take credit for what unfolds)! So keep it in chock, by all means... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 29 2008 1:42:12 PM |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 1:46:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
But hey, any suggestions on how to do spinal breathing when breath is short, shallow, hasty and full of stops? Just jump up and down with the visualization to root and ajna, or try to do longer, slower breaths?
Hi EMC:
That too shall pass.
Just take it easy, favor the procedure of practice and stay with the daily routine. It will smooth out in time. That is how it goes with purification and opening. It starts out with "friction," and there is less and less friction over time.
If you are getting stuck in the middle, it is fine to go straight to the brow on completion of inhale and straight to the root on the completion of exhale. As long as you are touching both ends in each cycle, the clearing of the middle will come.
Also check "full yogic breathing" in the Spinal Breathing Pranayama book.
The guru is in you.
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 1:50:48 PM
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EMC, I occasionally get a disturbance in my breath, and I've found the best way to even it out is to breath naturally and place my attention on the various regions of the body as they move. The mind is usually automated to serve our yogic practices, but if the mind loses its flow you can re establish the right rhythm by observing the breath. Be mindful of every step in the breath, and if you are ecstatic, you can feel the energy behind every little step.
It's kind of like a treadmill. You get on the treadmill for a few minutes and very quickly you can feel the energy coursing through the body, and if you get off of the treadmill the energy is felt even more. The momentum of energy within compels the body to keep walking. So when you observe the breath, you can eventually reconnect with the building momentum of energy within. If the breath is slow and steady, in a few minutes it should transfer to a smooth energetic awareness.
Sometimes my visualization feels clunky, and it feels out of tune with how my breath and energy are behaving. So I follow the breath, which leads to the energy, and then my visualization becomes complimentary and effective.
Hope this is helpful. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 06:56:21 AM
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Hm. I don't get very much more understanding, so I'll just drop it and wait until I get those long breaths again. I have never messed with my automatic things going on, so I wont disturb my weird breathing now. I interpret you as if I should force the breathing, and that is sort of painful. I feel as if I sit in a Darth Vader grip and can't breath for long periods. No panic though. Feels just right. But quite impossible to start with full yogic breathing or do anyting but sip a little air for a second now and then... During one of those sips I try to visualize a movement from bottom up and there it stays for 10-15 sek until it sips out for 1-2 sec, then I try to visualize energy going down, and there it stays again for... don't know how long... 'cause I sort of totally go away from my senses. Very irregular sipping and very non-smooth spinal breathing. Not much time to follow energies up and down...
"Life is not how many breaths you take, it's how many moments that takes your breath away."
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Edited by - emc on Feb 01 2008 08:16:49 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 12:02:50 PM
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EMC, fwiw, that's the approach I'd take. I'm less reluctant than most to tinker "under the hood" when I'm having a specific problem, but until a puzzle congeals into an actual problem, I tend to just let go and let the cosmic barber cut my hair, so to speak.
It's good that you're monitoring this situation. If other evidence accumulates, you may want to revisit your options. But it might well be "just a phase", so giving yourself up to the practices sounds like a smart move at this juncture. I hope (and suspect) all goes well for you! |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 2:49:19 PM
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quote:
I interpret you as if I should force the breathing, and that is sort of painful.
Hi EMC, in case you were responding to me, I was trying to convey in my post to step back and observe the breath. No need to force anything.
Many times when my breathing has become irregular, it was due to carrying tension in my abdomen or heart region. Observing the breath helped dissolve the tension, allowing a more natural flow of breath, or at least was more relaxed and familiar.
I recall reading that we are supposed to establish ourselves more and more in stillness and inner silence, and I've found those very deep states, where the shallow breathing occurred most, occurs more naturally outside of deep meditation. In these times, I just allow the breath to be as it is. Sometimes, though, my breath feels a bit caught up, and I refer back to those times where I feel like I am carrying tension in the regions that propel the body's breath, and in those times I try to relax the body and breath with observation.
It sounds like there is a distinction between the short puffs of breath that occur when we are in deep meditation on the inside (but fairly awake and conscious), and times where the body has some sort of block that is affecting the breathing pattern.
It all does pass by pretty quickly, and we are the best judge about how to handle whatever we experience at the time. |
Edited by - Kyman on Feb 01 2008 3:22:40 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 04:55:21 AM
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Kyman, okidoki. I do observe my breath, or I wouldn't be aware of it being so weird! My question was really about how to handle the spinal breathing and the visualization/following of the energies while having this going on. I guess it's ok then, to jump up and down from ajna to root on 1 sec when those sips come and let the energy stand still at root or top during breath stop... An alternative would be to change direction every sip, and then during the breath stop (10-15 sec) follow the energies through the body? Haven't tried that.
I'm under great resistance now reading "Secrets of Wilder" (yuahh.. I don't like that book) but he goes through a natural stopping of breath which increases ecstatic conductivity. Perhaps that's what's happening. Although I'm very, very confused about what that ecstatic thing is still... I don't get any other sensations during breath stop except going deeper into silence/stillness. |
Edited by - emc on Feb 02 2008 04:58:57 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 09:57:17 AM
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emc said: Although I'm very, very confused about what that ecstatic thing is still... I don't get any other sensations during breath stop except going deeper into silence/stillness.
I would echo that emc, for many years in the zen tradition my breath would naturally cease at the end of exhalation and the result would always be a lovely deep peace or stillness.
On the contrary the way energy moves in my body is with the activity of breath and not with the cessation of breath.
I have to say though, I'm getting tired of wondering about these things, the fact that my road map seems to be from a different planet than that of most folk here.
To borrow a term from Yogani's Self Inquiry book and apply it to "understanding". The persuit of understanding is fine if it relational to the practice and coming from inner silence.
If it starts getting away from this and into the head then it could be non-relational and detrimental to our practice.
I'm saying this more for me than for you, my dear
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 10:24:26 AM
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Hehe, Louis, dearest, I'm so glad you mentioned the last thing! It was for me as well alright!
After almost having finished the Secrets of W now, I understand why I had to read it now... to understand the comings and goings... There's some kind of huge purification going on, bringing all sorts of bodily symptoms, and I think they have got to do with a trial of mantra enhancement...  It came to me, and I followed that for a short while, but I got heat problems - the burning on the inside, so I stopped immediately. Then this freezing cold came after that. I think the system is trying to tell me I have to go through the breath suspension phase, clearing out a lot more mud from particularly my throat chakra, before I go to work on the crown with mantra enhancement... The Shree appeared in my meditation 2 days ago again, trying to lurk its way in from behind sort of, and *WHAM* I was hit by a terrible fever yesterday, like the worst flu I've ever had. I've spent the day reading the book and if I ignore the story and just pick the spiritual knowledge out of it, it's quite informative!
Reading the book does make me feel even more like you say, Louis: "my road map seems to be from a different planet than that of most folk here"
Either I go through things in a totally backward order, or I haven't yet experienced half of what others mean by bliss, ecstatic conductivity, kundalini or anything...
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 11:45:38 AM
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| EMC, how long does your breathing pause for? |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 12:09:57 PM
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Hi EMC:
Sorry for the delay getting back.
If full yogic breathing is a stretch for you, that is okay. Just breath normally during spinal breathing, whatever that is for you, and take it easy. If you can slow down and deepen breathing a bit, that is good. If not, don't worry about it. Self-pace as needed. Things will loosen up over time. Friction and obstructions will become less.
Favoring breath suspension is not part of the procedure of AYP spinal breathing, just the way it is not in deep meditation. Breath suspension can happen naturally in either practice. That is fine. When we realize we are off into breath suspension, or anything else, we just ease back to our spinal breathing. There is no right or wrong about it. It is just an easy procedure of favoring one thing over other things when we can choose.
If we are favoring breath suspension beyond its natural occurrence, we can end up with more energy flowing, more friction and more clunkiness. Premature intentional breath suspension can lead to kundalini excesses.
So easy breathing between root and brow is all spinal breathing pranayama is. If anything else comes up, we just ease back to that. It will become smoother and smoother over time of daily practice. And so will our deep meditation sessions, and life in general. It is all connected.
As John Lennon sang, "Your inside is out and your outside is in, so come on and take it easy."
Stillness in action...
The guru is in you.
PS: Regarding the Secrets of Wilder novel, keep in mind that John Wilder's journey was one of discovery, with some excesses in practice and resulting difficulties along the way. That is putting it mildly, yes? Those excesses and difficulties are included in the story to offer a heads up on some of the common pitfalls in practice, not so the reader will repeat them! This is especially true of excessive intentional breath suspension, which is a huge energy stimulator. And premature crown practices, which can lead to some difficult traveling. So the Wilder story, among other things, is about what can bring smooth progress and what may not. And the AYP writings are about that too. Carry on! 
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 1:07:32 PM
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| Yogani, since 2 years, nothing has been "normal" for me... I have hardly done anything intentional but started to follow the AYP spinal breathing and meditation procedure to calm things down and try to get in the front of the car instead of sitting as a passenger in the back. Still, everything continues to "just happen", challenging me how to handle it. So now, when these breath suspensions showed up, I didn't know what to do. It's not intentional in any way, and it seems to be too much for my system. So, ok, what I interpret is that I'll force myself out of the automatic stuff since it obviously boosts too much energy, and go into slower breathing. I'll gently ask Darth to loosen his grip and leave me alone during practices! Thank you for your kind and thorough answer! |
Edited by - emc on Feb 02 2008 1:09:14 PM |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 1:52:03 PM
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Hi EMC:
You are really talking about "automatic yoga," which tends to happen more for some folks than for others. It is a karmic thing and it can make the journey seem a bit more complicated while figuring out what to do (if anything) about all the experiences that are going on. But the underlying mechanics of purification and opening are the same for everyone, so it boils down to navigation. Not always easy with so much going on. At the same time, it is very easy as long as we are favoring our center in stillness, including the means that reliably establish us there. All the rest is, yes, scenery!
Fighting automatic yoga is not the answer. It isn't Darth Vader grabbing you by the neck. It is only your nervous system in a rush to open to the infinite divine potential within you. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you can avoid getting frozen or fried in the process. 
That is why I say "navigation." We all are obliged to do it by one means or another, no matter how much or how little we have going on symptom-wise.
Here is a lesson on automatic yoga that might help:
Handling Automatic Yoga and Siddhis: http://www.aypsite.org/210.html
While the experience brought up in the lesson is different, the underlying dynamics and measures taken are the same. The lesson takes a fairly broad look at automatic yoga, and can be extrapolated to cover just about any kind of symptom or situation, including breath suspension, etc.
Related lessons can be found in the topic index under "automatic yoga."
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 5:45:29 PM
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"Fighting automatic yoga is not the answer. It isn't Darth Vader grabbing you by the neck. It is only your nervous system in a rush to open to the infinite divine potential within you. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you can avoid getting frozen or fried in the process."
No Darth???
I'm sorry, I don't seem to be able to avoid getting fried right now. I've just finished 'Secrets of W' and I cry like a baby - the last part of it turned the whole book into a good one! But now I have all kinds of automatic things going on (sort of all the other advanced practices that I never practice) that's making energies blast off in a very uncontrolled way, itching in the root area, sneezing like a maniac with energies up my nose... I think I'll stay away from forum for a while and go practice navigation. Thanks for all advice. Now it's time to self-pace seriously. Never had this quick overload thing going before... Shoot, over only 2 days I'm in some sort of hurricane! Learning by doing...
/Luke |
Edited by - emc on Feb 02 2008 5:54:45 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 3:52:38 PM
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| Took a blood test - no sign of thyroid dysfunction! |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2009 : 12:32:15 PM
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EMC,
I can't follow your progress linearly because it would take to long for my short attention span to incorporate all the details! ... but how are things now compared to when you wrote this thread?
And don't forget i sneaked in a question there too... |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 4:09:24 PM
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Haha, gumpi - just found this topic again! Cause I'm in the same place! =) Freezing... having a massive third eye awakening happening... the hand is (automatically) pulling out the third eye after every meditation for a couple of minutes... *smile*
It's all going in endless cycles...
Today I'm giggling about it. Two days ago I cursed it.
And it's all happening in the middle of my most serious self-pacing period with 4 hrs/day working in the stables after regular 8 hrs work. Meditating minimum of time...
It's all dancing in cycles... |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 11:36:46 AM
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Your hand is pulling out your third eye? That sounds like a BIG OUCH. Perhaps you need to be third eye blind (ok bad joke i know)
This purification business sure does seem to go on for a LONG time...
Dancing in cycles is a nice way to put it. I guess when you stop dancing the curtains will come down and the stage manager will have to bid you adieu. But until that time you will have to enjoy the swings and changes whether you like it or not!
It's amazing how the metabolism can go so low. |
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Metabolism slowing down
