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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 13 2007 : 1:41:36 PM
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following up to my previous posting...
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want to just relax into the soup and make my distinct hue freely available to the Artist in this collaborative project.
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Even if I don't make myself available, that's still what I am and all I am, in spite of any delusions to the contrary....much as the small child stubbornly grasping his toy steering wheel is still a passenger in the car steered by daddy, regardless of his delusions.
And grasping a useless toy steering wheel is as beautiful a role as any other. Even if it brings you pain and disorientation and not a moment's peace. Pain and disorientation and unpeacefulness are just other hues.
My role in this painting right now is to help point out your perfectly beautiful delusion, so you can serve in a less painful hue. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 13 2007 1:53:28 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2007 : 11:00:25 AM
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| Great posting, Vil. You raise a lot of interesting points. The "God is punishing me" thing is how we interpret the disjoint when we steer hard left with our little toy steering wheel and the car steers hard right. It's not punishment, just a disconnection between our strong intentions and "His" (i.e. "What Is"). But there's no anger or any "one" to punish. The friction all derives from our delusion of control and separateness to begin with. Things just ARE. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 14 2007 3:32:07 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2007 : 2:30:01 PM
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Good posts from you too, Jim. You've given me lot to contemplate: 
Suppose that we decide to take a job that we hate, but due to the material benefits we choose not to listen to ourSelves and take it anyway. The immediate sense gratification will be short lived and so we experience this pain. And dependent on habit, can lead to the total loss of self, not knowing our right from our left. And so comes the need for the process of unknowing, to get to the "heart" of who we once were/are. So now we understand why the great spiritual Teachers admonished detachment from the love of money, and all of the other things that it affords the senses.
Then there is a pain that opposes the senses and usually entails more pain, although different, than the first. The kind of pain when we listen to ourSelves and encounter more difficulties in the way of loss of material things, prestige, pretense, but we can live with ourSelves, look ourSelves in the mirror and say, 'I don't have anything, in way of outward things, but I know who I AM'. I'm experiencing pain, but I'm not suffering. The pain is real, but it doesn't consume me. I speak the truth, some people hate me for it, but I am who I AM and that's that.
So, the first pain is unbearable and causes the Self to suffer, whereas the second is bearable, where the Self is at peace, and paradoxically leads to tremendous joy.
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 14 2007 2:45:51 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2007 : 3:47:20 PM
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Hmm. But I don't believe the pain "shows us the way'. I don't believe the bliss "shows us the way", either. The way is the way, and pain or bliss are side effects of our bridling against that way.
The inner guru isn't trying to propel me to take a sweeter job. The inner guru propels me to find the sweetness in every moment, come what may and excluding nothing. The mind is what probes for insufficiencies of sweetness, and propels us to continually tinker with our environment, trying to get things just right so we can lose the feeling of unease and turmoil. Yet it never does get just right and we never do lose that feeling. Like dogs, we spend our lives chasing something that can never be caught via chasing. What job is 100% sweet? We notice what's not sweet about our job, our boyfriend, our life, the universe, and we literally do not let ourselves rest until it's all just right. And, once again, it never is.
Some advocate the use of spiritual energy and tools to hypercharge our ability to FINALLY get our environment more like we want it (i.e. find a job we love or become less materialistic or heal our neighbor or seduce his wife, etc). But that just locks us deeper in the delusion. And we still will remain insatiable, because that's what we are so long as we allow ourselves to be driven (or tantrically hyper-driven) by our desires, trying to ratchet up the sweetness quotient rather than to open our eyes to the perfect sweetness of literally everything (including humdrum jobs and tight shoes).
Of course, one must act, and make choices. And spiritual work yields, as a side effect, clearer actions and choices. But hacking my energy via spiritual tools in order to supercharge my will in order to fulfill my desires is dangerous, because so long as it's MY will being done and not THINE, I know from personal experience (and, hey, I'm a pretty sympathetic guy...I wouldn't repeat the actions of a Swami Rama even if I could get away with them) that my human will and desires are quite flawed and corruptible. I have infinite strategies for rationalizing and otherwise excusing my own bad behavior and flawed intentions. And I know that power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And, in any case, it's foolish to get on that route because, per above, I will never get it just right, regardless of how I tweak the parameters...i.e. so long as I grasp and recoil my way through the sea of absolute perfection in which I soak. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 14 2007 4:04:22 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2007 : 5:15:34 PM
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quote:
Jim: The inner guru isn't trying to propel me to take a sweeter job. The inner guru propels me to find the sweetness in every moment, come what may and excluding nothing. The mind is what probes for insufficiencies of sweetness, and propels us to continually tinker with our environment, trying to get things just right so we can lose the feeling of unease and turmoil. Yet it never does get just right and we never do lose that feeling. Like dogs, we spend our lives chasing something that can never be caught via chasing. What job is 100% sweet? We notice what's not sweet about our job, our boyfriend, our life, the universe, and we literally do not let ourselves rest until it's all just right. And, once again, it never is.
Try telling someone in an abusive relationship that its best that they listen to their inner guru and find the sweetness of the environment and relationship since nothing is 100% right: 
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Mar 14 2007 5:19:58 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2007 : 11:34:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL
quote:
Jim: The inner guru isn't trying to propel me to take a sweeter job. The inner guru propels me to find the sweetness in every moment, come what may and excluding nothing. The mind is what probes for insufficiencies of sweetness, and propels us to continually tinker with our environment, trying to get things just right so we can lose the feeling of unease and turmoil. Yet it never does get just right and we never do lose that feeling. Like dogs, we spend our lives chasing something that can never be caught via chasing. What job is 100% sweet? We notice what's not sweet about our job, our boyfriend, our life, the universe, and we literally do not let ourselves rest until it's all just right. And, once again, it never is.
Try telling someone in an abusive relationship that its best that they listen to their inner guru and find the sweetness of the environment and relationship since nothing is 100% right:
VIL
Accepting what Is can very well be the inspiration that leads to the action that brings ourselves into a new situation which is in harmony with our inner nature.
A
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 12:47:22 AM
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VIL, you're pointing toward the oldest issue in the books, and Anthem gave you a far wiser answer than I could.
But let me just point out that if you draw a line of what's beyond your pale, the nature of mind is to put more and more on the other side of that line. There is a smooth, smooth slope between starving children in Nazi death camps and a rainy picnic, with no point of clear demarcation. And where we draw the line matters not. It all simply is, regardless of how the princess adjusts her pea sensitivity. It IS! It cannot cease to be until it's all as we want it. It IS! Right now!
I've taken considerable trouble to point out, as I try to make this point from a dozen different angles, that none of this means we need to fail to take action. I bring umbrellas to picnics, and I'd also do what I could to help the starving death camp children. I don't sit on my couch satisfied in spite of suffering. For one thing, here I am typing this! :)
What I don't want to do is use occult methods to soup up my will's ability to satisfy it's desires. Because 1. my desires are insatiable, so there's no happiness there, just an insane loop, 2. my will is corruptible, so however noble my motivations may seem they will always be flawed (the fact that myriad yogis vastly more purified than you or I have been horrendously corrupted ought to be a huge red flag to anyone approaching this practice with eyes even slightly open), and 3. the way off this treadmill is not by turbocharging the behavior that got us on it in the first place. We need to let, not do. Surrender to a greater will rather than magnify our own. Stop our insane need to expand our stakedness, increase our power and influence, impose our will, and get what we want, and generally keep grabbing for whatever brass ring currently attracts our yearning. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 15 2007 12:57:04 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 09:08:05 AM
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quote:
Jim: It all simply is, regardless of how the princess adjusts her pea sensitivity. It IS! It cannot cease to be until it's all as we want it. It IS! Right now!
Buddha left his mattress and desired to help those peas around him favoring the elimination of suffering instead of accepting what is.
There is renunciation (accepting what is) and there is spiritual desire (for the greater good/spiritual evolution). Christ explains this as seeking and the Bagavad Gita uses an allegorical battle to show the path to Self. Every spiritual tradition explains this.
There are various states of percieving the Self, as I attempted to explain in a previous post, albeit poorly. And I think that you touched upon the paradox when you mentioned the desire/need as, "until its all as we want it" and your mention to accept what is and yet would also act to help those around you. Do you see the paradox? Why would you need to act or even help if all is perfect and just is? And if someone says that this is merely an off-shoot of Self Realization it is erroneous and an illusory form of apathy.
So what's the point of attempting to turn an apple into a fig when they both exist within the same garden?
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 15 2007 09:16:01 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 3:23:56 PM
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Hi All
Great topic !
VIL wrote:
quote:
Buddha left his mattress and desired to help those peas around him favoring the elimination of suffering instead of accepting what is.
Every spring I watch the beautiful birch outside my kitchen window burst into life. It is such a spectacular sight...Yet, the birch is not sprouting to help me. It sprouts because it can't help it. It simply is.....in all it's glory.
Buddha is pure Being. In pure Being nothing is desired....and all simply flow from it. It is not desire that makes Buddha leave his mattress; it is love. He simply can't help it. Being loves itself, and naturally overflows. This overflowing is what transforms whoever is touched by it. Buddha is accepting what is every single instant. Thus all the intelligence of Being is available through him. This is the transforming factor.
The elimination of suffering comes through understanding. Understanding is the result of greater awareness, not increased knowledge of how things are. Accepting what is....does not mean to accept our idea of how things are (which includes all our concepts, likes and dislikes). Accepting what is ...is to accept "that which is" ; and only this! It is to accept the very texture of Being. The very fact of Being. In order to allow this acceptance (which is basically the same as surrender), I must stop resisting what is right here, right now. If I constantly say "no", "no", "no" and close my ears, then how am I going to see what is ? To see what is, is to be aware of it. To refrain from naming or judging what I see, to be quiet inside and observe, observe, observe. It is the light of awareness that clarifies. As Anthem points out:
quote:
Accepting what Is can very well be the inspiration that leads to the action that brings ourselves into a new situation which is in harmony with our inner nature.
Exactly. And not only that:
It is only when you are actually non resistant to this very moment that you are in touch with your real self. If you resist, you immediately lose awareness. And when awareness is lost - your action will be a reaction - not a respons fitted to the moment. It is only when you don't resist that the intelligence, love and clarity of Being (your real self) can seep through. This is the inspiration. From this flows the action that will truly help you.
This is why I meditate. Awareness is the fruit of meditation. All effort melts in awareness. All effort is redundant in awareness. Yet in order to melt, there must be a transforming factor. Awareness is it. It is its own goal. Greater awareness is the fruit of "being aware". If I am aware, then all is well. No matter what happens, all is well when I am here.
Spiritual desire (bakhti) is the drive....the longing inside....that propels me back into awareness (that which is). As such, spritual desire is the antidote to inertia. It is the "effort" needed in order to be able to melt. To be able to "do nothing"....to surrender and let awareness be the source of action.
Spiritual desire is "not accepting that I am the idea I have of myself" so that i can accept what is instead.
It is home itself that pulls me home.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 4:41:17 PM
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Those who imagine truth in untruth
and see untruth in truth never arrive
at truth but follow vain desires.
Those who know truth as truth and untruth
as untruth arrive at truth and follow
true desires.
- Buddha
I quoted the Buddha in his use of the word desire, as I used the word spiritual desire, not to be confused with sense desire. Semantics is what's causing the confusion.
Spiritual desire is good. His compassion to end the suffering of those around Him was good. It was a desire on His part. So much so that He left a material kingdom and became a true Prince of a Spiritual One:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 15 2007 5:10:40 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 6:06:37 PM
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quote:
Katrine: Every spring I watch the beautiful birch outside my kitchen window burst into life. It is such a spectacular sight...Yet, the birch is not sprouting to help me. It sprouts because it can't help it. It simply is.....in all it's glory.
The birch sprouts, because of the earth, air, fire and water and we are thankful for all of these things that support the chain of life. Just like we are thankful for the love of the Buddha, who like the Sun, brought new life and growth to our spiritual world.
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 15 2007 6:14:46 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 04:44:11 AM
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Hi VIL
You wrote:
quote:
I quoted the Buddha in his use of the word desire, as I used the word spiritual desire, not to be confused with sense desire. Semantics is what's causing the confusion.
Yes....that's the trouble with words, isn't it?
I come to a point....where there are no words that will convey.
"Spiritual"....."desire" ...."love"....."wisdom"....."truth"......
"Buddha"....."Christ"....."Krishna"......."God". Beautiful words; yet we all impart them with our understanding at the time.
You know much more about Buddha than I do, Vil. Thank you for presenting his words here, and thank you for sharing your Bakhti.
quote:
Semantics is what's causing the confusion.
I will always be confused within semantics. No word capture and convey reality. The words are always substitutes. They can be great pointers to truth (as Buddhas), but they themselves are not it. I cannot see this fact unless I accept what is . And it is I who am.
You are the One. I am the One. It matters not if Buddha left his material kingdom, when I don't. My material kingdom (my personal will) needs to be seen for what it is. In order to see the falseness of its seeming existence, the light of awareness must shine on it. It shines only in acceptance. If I don't accept, I contract and cloud the shine. It is that simple. Awareness is what reveals that it (my personal will) never was real in the first place. It was a make believe.
Awareness is understanding. This understanding is always silent. It never uses words as a reference point. It doesn't have to. It is real. I don't have to explain the rain. It speaks for itself. Wordlessly so.
quote:
The birch sprouts, because of the earth, air, fire and water and we are thankful for all of these things that support the chain of life. Just like we are thankful for the love of the Buddha, who like the Sun, brought new life and growth to our spiritual world.
Yes to all of the above.
Yet....looking at the birch sprouting.....all this splendour is conveyed without a single word. In silence, all the love, beauty, gratefullness, grace, light,..... fills my heart......until the Oneness permeating everything is revealed as all there is.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 05:28:10 AM
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Hi All
Awareness - Oneness - cannot be forced. This is why I meditate.
A small amount of time put in twice a day ......a melting into the depth within.....coupled with a "going out and be actively participating in life" is somehow resulting in Joy, Peace, Love and Clarity. I don't have to understand the workings of it (I don't have to know how) - only surrender to the fact that it is indeed working.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 1:07:31 PM
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Thank you, for the clarity on the subject, Katrine - insightful and beautiful as always - a testament to your humility, kindness of heart, and generosity of spirit, a true exemplar who walks the walk. Your original post explained the Buddha more perfectly, mentioning His innate completeness, free from sense desire, a love that is naturally overflowing. Perfect.
You are the real deal, Katrine. Thank you, for being you, and shedding even more light on the subject:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Mar 18 2007 1:16:59 PM |
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Mexico Yoga Retreat
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2010 : 7:32:27 PM
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Following up on a very old post made above, I think an important distinction is between a "yoga retreat" and a "yoga vacation," as the intentions can be so different.
I'm off for Mexico myself this fall for an extended yoga vacation -- with several retreats built in. I'll look for that teacher (thanks for the tip). If anyone wants to follow along, you'll be able to see videos and so forth on my blog (hope it's ok to post this): http://www.mexicoyogaretreats.net. |
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Non-Dual vs. Dual - and AYP meets Zen on a Retreat
