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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 15 2007 : 10:51:16 AM
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Hi folks. Here's another self-enquiry teacher's site to put in your bag of tricks.
As far as realized beings go he appears to me to be the real deal.
http://www.elysha.org/ |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2007 : 4:54:22 PM
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Hello again
I've read a lot from this gentleman's site. Interesting and intriguing reading. He advocates sudden over gradual enlightenment, actually saying there is no true gradual enlightenment, though he does suggest somewhere in there to meditate twice a day. He apparently went through years of meditation himself. What is it about teachers who become enlightened and say you don't need to meditate to "get there", yet they themselves did years of meditation? He also has many words about the scads of western teachers who aren't the real deal, of course we all know they abound. Though I tend to think that awakening may come suddenly, I also think the kinds of methods we are engaged with here are the best available to truly help prepare the ground for awakening. In the end bhakti is bhakti, but I think we can cultivate it and wind things up some. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 15 2007 5:06:14 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 03:55:21 AM
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Hi,
I am quoting from his website:
Quote:
"Elysha, a heart master who awoke as the heart on the 8th May 1992 in Wellington,
New Zealand, currently spends most of his time at The Elysium Ashram in Patea
in the North Island of New Zealand. In 2005 another major movement of the heart
incarnated through his mindbody"
I don't want to discredit this guy, and I am sure his has found a lot of valuable things,
but the above quote does not feel very appealing to me.
My advice: take whatever is good for you, but don't forget
to find the the guru in you  |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 10:46:57 AM
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Hi Wolfgang
I have no reason to defend this fellow, but perhaps the statement you quoted does refer to the guru within. besides pranayama and deep meditation I am very interested in the non-dualist approach and am always investigating such resources (Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta & etc.). If some of you have this interest as well then I hope you go beyond the front door of Elysha's website and read some of his stuff, that's why I posted the page links. His audios are interesting too as you get more of a taste of his energy.
Peace, Alan |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 16 2007 10:51:59 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 11:09:49 AM
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Hi Alan,
I have been reading the stuff he has written.. it is very inspiring.. I know what he is saying.. it feels right.. and you can tell he knows what he is talking about.. but it is one of those things you have to experience to understand (at least what I have read so far).. it's one of those things.. where you cannot use the mind to understand the mind.. that is not easy to follow unless you have some inner silence..
Like
quote:
http://www.elysha.org/alone.html
You have to leave it alone - but you will not
You just will not leave alone that activity that is preventing you from living the freedom that is already true of you
It is a worldwide epidemic - this one of the addiction to your suffering and pain. Everyone is doing it. You will not simply leave alone that activity that has you deflected from realizing who you already are. It is a human misery of refusal to be causelessly happy
It is very easy for a person who has reached a certain level to say this.. but how??? how do I stop the addiction to suffering and pain and thoughts.. Today with practice I can say I think (oops!!! my mind is controlling that too ) I know how..
But I do enjoy reading what he has written.. sort of nudges you in the right direction.. does it not?
Thanks for sharing this. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 4:51:13 PM
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Hi Shweta
Yes, he is inspiring. Makes you want to get under the thoughts and be free from the "mindbody" thing.
Thanks for sharing Shweta and Wolfgang
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Edited by - Balance on Feb 16 2007 5:25:50 PM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 9:28:10 PM
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Hi Balance,
At first glance sounds a bit Krishanmurthi-ish and Tolle-ish. The guys who arrived already there, and so tell everyone they don't need tools. I'm not there already... but yes, it's nice to know what the people already there are like. Thanks. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 11:25:01 PM
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Hi sadhak
There is one tool. He says one can identify with the self-awareness at the point preceding thought, where the essence of the self flows through the point of perception. At least that's how I read it. Interesting approach.
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shivakm
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 12:22:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Balance
Hello again
What is it about teachers who become enlightened and say you don't need to meditate to "get there", yet they themselves did years of meditation?
What you said is really a perplexing thing that all enlightened masters say. They all make it sound so easy. But when we carefully look, they themselves have done a lot of yoga/meditation or some other form of sadhana as you have mentioned before getting enlightened. For instance, I have read about these two teachers. J. Krishnamurthy, I read that he did kundalini and other yoga practices for several years, but after the supposed enlightenment he started saying that we do not need yoga or anything else to realize our true nature. Another example is Ramana Maharishi. It is a well known fact that he did some heavy meditation continuously in the thiruvannamalai temple and on the hill in the city for several years . From what I have read about some of his conversations with Arthur Osborne, Paul Brunton etc., he never said that we do not need yoga etc. But he did teach that we can realize by inquiring into our own nature. He gave a lot of importance to inquire ourselves as to "Who am I?". And he mentioned that this inquiry itself will take us to enlightenment.
But there are some teachers who say that they got enlightened just spontaneously without any practices. One such teacher in our own time is the Eckhart Tolle. He says on his famous book, "The Power of Now" (I love this book by the way and have read it several times) that one day when he was 32 (or 33) he was lying at the bed at his house and was really depressed. He felt that he can not carry on with this any more. He says some thing like, "I can not put up with myself anymore.". Then he suddenly realized the strangeness of that thought. "If I can not live with myself, Am I one or two? There must be two of me if I can not live with myself." And after he started inquiring as to which is the real "I" in these two, this inquiry brought him the realization. According to this book he has not performed any special practices before and was not even seeking enlightenment. It was very good to hear the whole experience in his own voice on the audio CD. But its still quite perplexing!
Shiva |
Edited by - shivakm on Feb 23 2007 1:05:47 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 02:43:06 AM
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Hi Shiva
Yes, it's all very interesting how some awakened ones can say such things. As near as I can figure they see from the "other side" that in truth it is all very simple to actually realize the "Self" that we are and they urge us to put all of our bhakti into making the leap and leaving delusion behind. It is encouraging to see that some, like Tolle, made such a leap without years of sitting. Of course we don't know what practice he may possibly have gone through in other life experiences. I've been wondering if Katrine has any light on the subject. She meditated for years but seems to urge us to simply recognize who we are. Sorry Katrine, don't want to put you on the spot. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 17 2007 1:11:14 PM |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 08:34:54 AM
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It's true, we don't need yoga to be what we are.
Our experience is one of being lead into the valley of the shadow of darkness, and then using meditation to find our way back into the light.
Those in the light, give birth to babies who are already light, and then they grow up as light.
Meditation, according to some teachings, isn't a practice but a state of mind. You do techniques just so you can meditate, instead of the other way around.
I think the teachers are speaking on a grander level, as a whole we don't need to do anything. Individually, perhaps, practices will help those of us who were so damaged by the world be reborn inside, like myself. But once we are reborn, do our nieces, nephews, and children have to go through the same process?
Most of us are lead into temptation, and then use techniques to re orient ourselves. But if we lead our children in the light we have cultivated for ourselves, maybe they will just bloom effortlessly like a flower.
Also, why put a limit on enlightenment. The aha moment should include the greatest illumination, I feel. |
Edited by - Kyman on Feb 17 2007 08:37:43 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 09:49:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by shivakm
But there are some teachers who say that they got enlightened just spontaneously without any practices. One such teacher in our own time is the Eckhart Tolle. He says on his famous book, "The Power of Now" (I love this book by the way and have read it several times) that one day when he was 32 (or 33) he was lying at the bed at his house and was really depressed. He felt that he can not carry on with this any more. He says some thing like, "I can not put up with myself anymore.". Then he suddenly realized the strangeness of that thought. "If I can not live with myself, Am I one or two? There must be two of me if I can not live with myself." And this thought brought him the realization.
Hi Shiva and Alan,
Here is what Yogani has to say about this..
Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations |
Edited by - Shanti on Feb 17 2007 09:49:36 AM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 10:57:11 AM
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Thanks Shweta
I know it is wise to continue to meditate twice a day. Meditation and pranayama has given me access to most wonderful treasures thus far. Self-enquiry for me would probably not go far without inner silence from meditation. I've always self-enquired and am finding it rewarding to investigate different angles from which to practice it.
Of course I don't believe any of us would be opposed to sudden awakening, perhaps that's how it occurs after all.
Alan |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 11:48:16 AM
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| Hi Kyman |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 1:52:22 PM
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Tolle does provide a large variety of tools for people to use when he writes/ speaks. He suggests, taking the awareness into the body, he suggests monitoring and being aware of the thoughts and emotions that come into mind, he suggests being with thoughts, seeing them for what they are and allowing thoughts to run their course instead of resisting etc. These are just a few.
His method of making people aware of their ego-minds is quite amazing at helping us see thoughts at work and helping us to un-identify from them. His teachings serve a purpose and help many people who might never meditate. Yogani's teachings help many who are inclined towards sitting practices. Byron Katie's work is jewel for those interested in self-enquiry etc. There are many ways to the top of the mountain and we are fortunate enough to have these great teachers in our midst to help us in the areas that we feel inclined towards. It is a group effort and we are all working towards the same truth.
When people like Tolle or whoever say you don't need meditation to realize our true nature, to me it is a true statement. It is the recognition of Self that matters, that we are not our thoughts or our bodies etc. Does meditation or other methods put us in a better situation or “place” to know this? I believe with certainty that they do. With fewer thoughts distracting and pulling our awareness away from the Here and Now, the mind can be still long enough for being/ inner silence to be known and experienced. Just be…
A
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Elysha
