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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 1:40:34 PM
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So one of my things in pranayama that was confusing to me was where to bring the energy at the perinium. Where was that physical point for me... so I have been bringing it in between my vagina and anus until.....
I've been reading through the books I haven't read on Yogani's book list and I am halfway through 'Kundalini Tantra' by Swami Satyananda Saraswati..... so in the chapter "Vama Marga and kundalini awakening" he explains that the male perinium point is in between their anus and sex organs but for women it is up behind the cervix personally I feel it a little behind the vaginal wall up behind there.-
quote:
In the female body the point of concentration is at the Mooladhara chakra, which is situated at the cervix, just behind the opening of the uterus.
Has made a big difference to me so I thought I would share it with you
Namaste
Babaly |
Edited by - Babaly on Dec 04 2006 1:42:12 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 5:06:03 PM
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So... when you follow the spinal nerve - is it sort of doing a sharp turn inwards toward the cervix? That would make a sort of square route from the ajna back throu the head, 90 degrees turn and then down the spine and again 90 degrees turn into the top of the vagina? Is that the correct route?
Hm... no wonder I have had problems finding that lower spot... Thanks, Babaly! |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 2:47:00 PM
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Hi EMC,
Yes, after following the Sushumna down the spine, then I follow it in further so I'm basically in between the anus and vagina and then I kinda swoop it up to behind the cervix. To me... it feels like there is a pool or resevoir of scintillating energy there.
Hope this helps:-)
Babaly
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2006 : 08:12:02 AM
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I already feel the difference! Thank you, Angel!  |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2006 : 12:11:23 PM
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Apologies for butting in on you ladies
I find this very interesting and was thinking of it in terms of teaching. After a quick try of it myself however I find looping the energy path down and around to the scrotum and back up again to feel very good.
So perhaps this also applies to men.
Any thoughts?
Louis |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2006 : 3:14:27 PM
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Hi Louis,
Not having the same equipqment, I feel I can't really answer... Maybe Yogani or one of the others might weigh in on the matter.
But if it feels right?....
Namaste,
Babaly |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2006 : 4:13:36 PM
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| Got an insight today! I connected this new fact with Barry Long teachings about making love... It makes perfect sense that it is when penis reaches the very bottom of the vagina that the energies in lovemaking really flourishes and nourishes. If you just stay still, the organs will start to dance beautifully! And that is why clitorial stimulation now feels so... secondary... sort of, for me. |
Edited by - emc on Dec 08 2006 4:21:17 PM |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2006 : 6:09:12 PM
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Yes EMC,
I got that too!!
How perfectly we are designed for liberation:-)
Babaly |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2006 : 02:44:19 AM
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By the way, interesting that even in the yoga teachings, it is MAN's anatomy that has been referred to. Woman's anatomy is "forgotten" and not mentioned. Man seems to be the norm in this area as well.
Are there any more differences that one should know of?
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2006 : 07:06:34 AM
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Hi Babaly,
Why, I spent months telling people that I couldn't feel the pulse between the anus and vagina, but more inside the uterus... and no one understood. (I don't know where the cervix is exactly... have to refer to a pic of the anatomy of the female human) I no longer push my heel all the way back to find the spot between the anus and vagina... feel the pulse earlier. Thanks for bringing this up.
You're right. I often felt irritation when I read everything described only from the male point of view.
As for the difference, Siddhasana used to be an issue. Some say the right heel goes down for females and the left for males. Why, no one explains. I prefer, therefore the AYP view that either heel for either gender is OK. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2006 : 07:11:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
By the way, interesting that even in the yoga teachings, it is MAN's anatomy that has been referred to. Woman's anatomy is "forgotten" and not mentioned. Man seems to be the norm in this area as well.
Are there any more differences that one should know of?
Man is not the norm, just an expression of one side
And may be some of you ladies got to enhance Yoganis lessons ...
The guru is in you
L&L
Wolfgang |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2006 : 1:05:58 PM
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Having given your idea a go Babaly, I found it a bit cumbersome on the in-breath and found myself reverting back to the normal procedure as outlined by the lessons - excerpt as below:
Next, with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your
attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you
visualize beginning at your perineum, continuing up through the
center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the
center of your head. At the center of your head the tiny nerve makes
a turn forward to the point between your eyebrows. With one slow,
deep inhalation let your attention travel gradually inside the nerve
from the perineum all the way to the point between the eyebrows. As
you exhale, retrace this path from the point between the eyebrows all
the way back down to the perineum. Then, come back up to the point
between the eyebrows with the next inhalation, and down to the
perineum with the next exhalation, and so on.
It occured to me that the advanced sidhasana :http://www.aypsite.org/T28.html might give the same effect you were talking about, without detracting from the regular procedure - what do you think.
Louis
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2006 : 1:43:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sadhak
I couldn't feel the pulse between the anus and vagina, but more inside the uterus...
I have felt this too Sadhak.
Louis.. I have been in sitting in advanced siddhasana for awhile now.. and now that you mention it.. I think that is what did the trick for me.
quote:
Lesson 28 - Advanced siddhasana for women and men
For women, the shift to advanced siddhasana involves letting the heel come forward to rest snuggly in the entrance to the yoni. It is a natural fit, and is easily accomplished by most enterprising yoginis. There is a second part to advanced siddhasana for women. This is to bring the toes of the outside foot up from under the shin of the inside leg and tuck the toes between the calf and thigh, bringing the heel of the outside foot to the yoni with the heel pressing against the clitoris. So, when accomplished, this form of siddhasana for women has the inside heel pressing comfortably up in the opening of the yoni, and the outside heel pressing comfortably against the clitoris.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2007 : 11:03:25 AM
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| This thread has been extremely helpful! Thanks everyone. It's going to take a little getting used to, but I can feel the potential for opening just behind the cervix...it's definitely The Spot. How do you suppose Swami Satyananda Saraswati knew this? :) There had to be a Mrs. Swami, or a dedicated devotee who patiently dictated the anatomical particulars to him. I wonder if Swamis blush. In any case, it was a bold move and I'm thankful that he had the insight to include women in his writings. Incidentally, I don't feel the need to do the swooping motion that Babaly described; I don't understand that part of it. Like emc, the motion for me is down to the top of the vagina and a 90º turn in toward the cervix. Do you naturally keep the vagina and anus slightly flexed? Anyone? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2007 : 1:12:29 PM
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| I naturally keep both the vagina and anus slightly flexed. Hi sis! |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2007 : 12:12:33 PM
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Hi All:
I have been following this discussion with interest. Not being a woman, I have been a little reluctant to jump in. 
But now I'd like to offer some comments that might add some perspective.
Picking up on blujett8's post over here, where she points to ecstatic connections in and around the perineum: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1979#16564 ...
In AYP spinal breathing, the primary lower end point is indeed in the area of the perineum. As we know, the perineum is the crossroad between the anus/rectum and genitals. There have been previous discussions seeking exactly where the bottom end of the spinal nerve is. There has been a tendency by some to take it forward to the genitals, and, in fact, the AYP tantra lessons lean this way with siddhasana for women (Satyananda does too). Yet, as the rise of ecstatic conductivity progresses, the sensitivity tends to move, or spread out, to the anus/rectum area as well.
It is well known that the classical literature places kundalini in the anus/rectal area, wrapped around it 3 1/2 times and all that. We need not get wrapped up in the details , but it is good to know that we are talking about ecstatic openings in both the area of the genitals (including the natural vajroli flow of fluid/essence up the urethra to the bladder in both sexes), and the awakening of ecstatic conductivity in the anus/rectal area (that is why we do mulabandha/asvini with our pranayama and kumbhaka). In later stages of root opening, siddhasana may automatically shift from front to back also.
From all of that, we might assume that the perineum, while not necessarily the primary point of awakening (or is it?), is a strategic location that covers, by proximity, the entire territory of root awaking, front and back. So, to borrow from the immortal words of Scott Fitzgerald in the Spinal Breathing Pranayama radio interview: "The perineum tain't in the front and it tain't in the back." (In fact, the perineum is also called the "tain't.")
Regardless of where the perineum is not, it is in the middle, and awakening goes in all directions from there.
And what about the area behind the cervix, or that ecstatic sensitivity somewhere in the middle of the pelvic region? Well, it is the sex center, isn't it? It is similar for men, with radiant ecstatic sensitivity arising in and around the seminal vesicles. It would appear that the similarities between the sexes in these matters are many more than the differences. What might be different is what is awakening when and where in the individual, which is a matter of personal purification and opening, and not necessarily gender related. Such variations are not based on anatomical differences as much as on individual patterns of obstruction we are each dissolving gradually through our daily practices.
In spinal breathing we are enlivening all of these areas as we touch with awareness the root location(s) and the area in the center of the pelvic region, not to mention everything else connected with the spinal nerve between the root and center brow. There is no need to alter our practice to accommodate whatever seems to be ecstatically sensitive in the moment. In fact, this might be favoring the scenery over the practice, something we all need to cognizant of.
So, should the sex center be the terminus of the spinal nerve in spinal breathing? Probably not, but no one is prohibited from experimenting with variations in practice. Satyananda's approach may be a valid variation. The proof of the pudding will be in the long term eating.
My only suggestion would be to not leave the root area/perineum out of the practice. Just because an area does not seem ecstatically active in the moment does not mean there is no gold in them thar hills!
Just some food for thought.
Great discussion and exploration!
The guru is in you.
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2007 : 3:58:47 PM
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thanks for your awesome input, yogani....this has been on my mind for a while now..
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2007 : 7:23:31 PM
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| Yes, thanks for the great insights, Yogani. I'll continue to look for gold in that thar perineum. I will say that, regardless of what chakra it is, finding this spot behind my cervix has helped my spinal breathing. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2007 : 4:49:40 PM
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Clarification needed. I have watched a lot of anatomy pictures now and all point at perineum being the SKIN between anus and genitals, while the cervix is located at the same hight as the end of the spine. A relaxed vagina do not stretch very far up in the body. Is the center located in the SKIN or perhaps some distance up in the body? Is the perineum the whole area between the colon and the vagina? What area is counted as perineum? It is not much area left under the cervix. =)
In lesson 174 Yogani writes:
quote:
Q:Sexual arousal during meditation – During meditation and Pranayama
I experience great sexual arousal. I know this is a usual symptom,
but I believe I experience it in a rather extreme way: the sensations
are very strong at times, and moreover – at times I even experience
ejaculations during meditations
A: Actually, sexual arousal is not a common symptom during meditation
and spinal breathing without siddhasana. It is a sign of good things
happening though, as it is an advanced experience of purification. - - - the rise of a direct sexual connection between the physical brain and the lower
centers is how the awakening of the third eye and sushumna (spinal
nerve) is experienced.
I have experienced this quite a lot (having female ejaculations) and I do not find the quote now, but I am pretty sure I have read somewhere that it would not be possible if the connection between the root chakra and the ajna wasn't there.
From that perspective, my experience of not finding the root chakra near the skin (if that is where it is located) would be interesting. If it is possible to get this connection between the ajna and second chakra, that is also interesting. What do you think? Something seems a bit weird for me with this description of perineum.
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Edited by - emc on Jan 28 2007 4:54:09 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2007 : 03:00:35 AM
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And babaly... if Swami Satyananda Saraswati says the root chakra is at the cervix for women, where does he place our second chakra????
Ah... I found it:
quote:
The first chakra is mooladhara. It is situated in the pelvic floor and corresponds to the coccygeal plexus of nerves. In the masculine body it lies between the urinary and excretory openings, in the form of a small dormant gland termed the perineal body. In the feminine body it is situated inside the posterior surface of the cervix.
The second chakra is swadhisthana, located at the lowest point or termination of the spinal cord. It corresponds to the sacral plexus of nerves and controls the unconscious in man.
http://www.eng.vedanta.ru/library/k...ysiology.php
If you look at these pictures, it is more accurate that the root chakra is located 90 degrees straight in from the end of the spine, and that is where the cervix is located as well.
http://www.networlddirectory.com/im...x-uterus.jpg
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Edited by - emc on Jan 29 2007 05:21:56 AM |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2007 : 11:44:20 AM
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Hi Everyone,
I've been out of country for the last month exploring, and so glad to see the further posts along this topic.
quote:
Originally posted by sadhak
Hi Babaly,
Why, I spent months telling people that I couldn't feel the pulse between the anus and vagina, but more inside the uterus... and no one understood. (I don't know where the cervix is exactly... have to refer to a pic of the anatomy of the female human) I no longer push my heel all the way back to find the spot between the anus and vagina... feel the pulse earlier. Thanks for bringing this up.
One of the things I feel is important Sadhak, is that we are all like scientists in a way, exploring our nervous systems and spirits... one of the things I feel could possibly benefit you is to go looking physically for your cervix. There is something very primal in actually connecting with your own femaleness. It was for me. Maybe you might feel uncomfortable but I do suggest it strongly... that way in meditation you are very clear where you are going
Just a suggestion
Love and light,
Babaly |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2007 : 11:52:44 AM
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Hi Meg,
Personally, when I get down to the swadhisthana I continue on going... my muscles on the floor of the pelvis etc., all start to contract(Moola Bandha and Uddiyana Bandha) which brings the energy up through the classic male perimnium point and then takes a turn up to behind the cervix.
It has been my experience that swamis blush just like everyone else lol
I must say.... Kundalini Tantra is a brilliant book - just very down to earth and practical.
Much love and light,
Babaly
quote:
Originally posted by meg
This thread has been extremely helpful! Thanks everyone. It's going to take a little getting used to, but I can feel the potential for opening just behind the cervix...it's definitely The Spot. How do you suppose Swami Satyananda Saraswati knew this? :) There had to be a Mrs. Swami, or a dedicated devotee who patiently dictated the anatomical particulars to him. I wonder if Swamis blush. In any case, it was a bold move and I'm thankful that he had the insight to include women in his writings. Incidentally, I don't feel the need to do the swooping motion that Babaly described; I don't understand that part of it. Like emc, the motion for me is down to the top of the vagina and a 90º turn in toward the cervix. Do you naturally keep the vagina and anus slightly flexed? Anyone?
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2007 : 11:57:51 AM
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Thanks Emc....
those pics were great!
Babaly
quote:
Originally posted by emc
And babaly... if Swami Satyananda Saraswati says the root chakra is at the cervix for women, where does he place our second chakra????
Ah... I found it:
quote:
The first chakra is mooladhara. It is situated in the pelvic floor and corresponds to the coccygeal plexus of nerves. In the masculine body it lies between the urinary and excretory openings, in the form of a small dormant gland termed the perineal body. In the feminine body it is situated inside the posterior surface of the cervix.
The second chakra is swadhisthana, located at the lowest point or termination of the spinal cord. It corresponds to the sacral plexus of nerves and controls the unconscious in man.
http://www.eng.vedanta.ru/library/k...ysiology.php
If you look at these pictures, it is more accurate that the root chakra is located 90 degrees straight in from the end of the spine, and that is where the cervix is located as well.
http://www.networlddirectory.com/im...x-uterus.jpg
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2007 : 12:04:07 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for your wonderful posting.
Full of insight.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi All:
I have been following this discussion with interest. Not being a woman, I have been a little reluctant to jump in.
But now I'd like to offer some comments that might add some perspective.
So, should the sex center be the terminus of the spinal nerve in spinal breathing? Probably not, but no one is prohibited from experimenting with variations in practice. Satyananda's approach may be a valid variation. The proof of the pudding will be in the long term eating.
My only suggestion would be to not leave the root area/perineum out of the practice. Just because an area does not seem ecstatically active in the moment does not mean there is no gold in them thar hills!
Just some food for thought.
Great discussion and exploration!
The guru is in you.
Yes, I too think it's very important to pass the energy through the "'Taint".
Love and light
Babaly
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2007 : 10:22:26 AM
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I can't help wondering, though... How come there is no agreement on where the chakras are located? Is it because "mind creates reality" and the chakras are really where the mind wants them to be, and therefore different for all persons? The biology-kundalini site recommended claims that chakras really only exist in our minds, although at the same time it is clearly described at the site that the kundalini gland (being the root chakra) is placed not in perineum, but BEHIND the anus - a gland between anus and end of the spine!
Or is it possible that chakra placement is individual to a certain extent? Who says it has to be the same location for all?
It becomes even more interesting when the glands come into question. Some says the second chakra is by the gonads, which would mean the testicles for men and the ovaries for the women - that is even higher than the cervix and additionaly - on both sides of the body!
Some mean the chakras are centered in the body, most claim they are located near the spine, just in front of it. Most drawings of the chakras are only from front, so what would it look from the side? The pictures I have seen have shown chakras either close to the spine, centered in the body, or every second being centered or by the spine or even on the front!
What is the correlation of chakras and taoist energy centers? Very random agreement, depending on which book you read!
I begin to understand why Yogani doesn't want to look under the hood! But as someone above mentioned... with so may persons with psychic abilities who could actually "see" the chakras... how come the descriptions and locations of them are so utterly different? In this case I do not trust anything but my own feeling!
The guru is in me. Where the chakras are... well, I frankly begin to give up on that one... |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2007 : 1:50:46 PM
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Hi emc
With regards to chakras in Western society Barbara Ann Brennan is regarded as one of the best sources.
A link to some of her stuff is here:http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakra...kras-BAB.htm
In it you will read:
quote:
It is located in men at the base of the penis, and in women above the pubic bone, approximately one palm's width below the navel [Chia, p.187]. It supports the genitals and the sex-drive. The sexual organs themselves also possess their own minor chakras which are responsible for sexual functioning and the sex and reproductive instincts, but these chakras connect to the rest of the energy system of the organism through the Pubic Chakra in the front, and the Sacral Chakra to the rear
The Pubic Chakra corresponds to the emotional or feeling side of sexuality. Its usual colour is red, and it is associated with the earthy, sensual, present-centred individual.
and: quote:
This chakra - called in Taoism Hui Yin - is located between the genitals and the anus; the part of the body called the perineum. It constitutes the lowest of the Yin or descending energy chakras, and is the lower meeting point of the Governor (Yang) and the Function or Conception Vessel (Yin) channels. Through the legs and feet it is the main link with the universal Earth Ch'i or yin energy. It also connects with the central channel that runs along the centre of the body to the Crown Chakra. Through this nadi flows the Heaven chi energy (Universal Yang) from the crown chakra. The Perineum centre - often but incorrectly called the Muladhara or Base Chakra - thus constitutes the red or broadcasting pole in the universal energy stream that enters through the crown centre (the violet pole).
But as you say, it is "under the hood", but still good to question it and feel it out for yourself and for the benefit of others here.
Louis
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