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 Ongoing nadi shodhana as regular breathing
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2018 :  06:00:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi, I'm wondering if there's anybody among you guys who is performing nadi shodhana as a regular breathing pattern during the day.
Obviously it can't be done while talking or eating, but it's perfectly feasible while driving, working (at least for some kinds of work), watching tv, reading and most of the mundane activities that require no particular body movements.
For practical reasons that should be ideally done in kechari as keeping your hand busy closing nostrils is not the most convenient way to live.
I'm very curious to hear somebody else experience if there's anybody out there who experimented with this.
Thank you so much.
Deep love to all.

BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1437 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  06:12:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
hello albechan

Good to hear from you again.

quote:
Originally posted by albechan

Hi, I'm wondering if there's anybody among you guys who is performing nadi shodhana as a regular breathing pattern during the day.


It is unlikely you will find AYPers who practice any pranayama throughout the day. In AYP, the advice is to engage in daily activity between sitting practices. We do not mix the two. Not only that it's unnecessary (as the practices in the AYP book are powerful enough to produce plenty of results when practiced twice a day), but engaging in work and socialising activities in between the sitting sessions is a good grounding measure and an opportunity to integrate the results of yoga practice in daily life.

Not quite the answer you were looking for, but I hope this is helpful.

Enjoy your practice
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  08:45:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat

hello albechan

Good to hear from you again.

quote:
Originally posted by albechan

Hi, I'm wondering if there's anybody among you guys who is performing nadi shodhana as a regular breathing pattern during the day.


It is unlikely you will find AYPers who practice any pranayama throughout the day. In AYP, the advice is to engage in daily activity between sitting practices. We do not mix the two. Not only that it's unnecessary (as the practices in the AYP book are powerful enough to produce plenty of results when practiced twice a day), but engaging in work and socialising activities in between the sitting sessions is a good grounding measure and an opportunity to integrate the results of yoga practice in daily life.

Not quite the answer you were looking for, but I hope this is helpful.

Enjoy your practice



Hi BlueRaincoat,
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.
I'm not sure though if what I do can even be defined as pranayama, as there's no control component in the way I breathe. What I do is simply switching the closing of one nostril at a time with my tongue without putting any effort on lenght and/or rhythm.
Honestly I don't think this goes against AYP practices as it doesn't interfere with daily activities if not by bringing more clarity and balance on all kind of interactions.
It simply is a different breathing pattern that can become an automatism farily quickly.
Of course this is only my experience: that's why I was very interested to hear from someone else's ones.
AYP website seems to draw a lot of dedicated spiritual seekers (a lot of whom are widely experienced with many different paths) so I thought it wouldn't be that unlikely to find someone who experimented with this as well.
Said that I do completely agree with the fact that AYP practices are enough to put anybody on the right track. I have to admit though, to be among those who tend to push on the throttle fairly strongly...
May joy be always with you.
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Charliedog

1506 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  10:46:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Albechan,

quote:
I'm not sure though if what I do can even be defined as pranayama, as there's no control component in the way I breathe. What I do is simply switching the closing of one nostril at a time with my tongue without putting any effort on lenght and/or rhythm.
Honestly I don't think this goes against AYP practices as it doesn't interfere with daily activities if not by bringing more clarity and balance on all kind of interactions.


This practice might give you clarity, because your awareness rests inside 'with the mudra and breath' and outside in activity during the day. However you influence the breath and nervous system with the switching, so it is pranayama. The outcome is not predictable and therefore not advised at AYP. Keep an eye on overload!

From own experience, at a certain moment on the path I became aware of the breath all day,I became aware of this awareness, like I was resting in this awareness. Like you say, it gave me clarity, balance, and grounding. It was not a doing at all, it just happened. At AYP we call it abiding inner silence, or Witness. No need to switch the nostrils, just reside in being aware. I might be wrong but this is what I read in your words.

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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  11:08:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog

Hi Albechan,

quote:
I'm not sure though if what I do can even be defined as pranayama, as there's no control component in the way I breathe. What I do is simply switching the closing of one nostril at a time with my tongue without putting any effort on lenght and/or rhythm.
Honestly I don't think this goes against AYP practices as it doesn't interfere with daily activities if not by bringing more clarity and balance on all kind of interactions.


This practice might give you clarity, because your awareness rests inside 'with the mudra and breath' and outside in activity during the day. However you influence the breath and nervous system with the switching, so it is pranayama. The outcome is not predictable and therefore not advised at AYP. Keep an eye on overload!

From own experience, at a certain moment on the path I became aware of the breath all day,I became aware of this awareness, like I was resting in this awareness. Like you say, it gave me clarity, balance, and grounding. It was not a doing at all, it just happened. At AYP we call it abiding inner silence, or Witness. No need to switch the nostrils, just reside in being aware. I might be wrong but this is what I read in your words.





Dear Charliedog,
What you wrote makes a lot of sense: it's true that the switching brings a lot of attention to the breath, thus inside.
There's also another important physical component, though which is related to the nasal cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
Basically the inferior turbinates normally keep swelling one at a time every couple of hours or so. This means that through normal breathing we are usually taking in slightly more air through one of the nostrils and this seems to change every these two hours or so. Some people speculate that this mechanism has to do with brain hemisphere activation.
I noticed that doing nadi shodhana in this way makes the two turbinates even most of the time: this means that the amount of air intake is pretty much the same to both the right and the left part of the brain.
I don't know if there's something behind all this. I just thought it was interesting to dig a bit further.
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Charliedog

1506 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  12:18:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear albechan,

The science of breath was of my interest and I digged too. However now I know also that SBP takes care for the purification of the nadis, and sushumna opens when time is ready. The science of breath is called Swara Yoga. Satyananda Saraswati and Harish Johari amongst others have books on Swara Yoga.

Best wishes
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1437 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  2:12:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Without wishing to distract from the discussion about bringing awareness inwards vs practicing a pranayama outside your sitting sessions, I would like to share this point: How automatic is automatic yoga?

quote:
Originally posted by albechan
It simply is a different breathing pattern that can become an automatism farily quickly.


There is 'effortless' and there is 'automatic' and they are not the same thing. To me 'automatic' means that it's more trouble to stop it than let it happen.
For example, a level of mulabandha is permanently 'on' for me. I also slip into a second or two of shambhavi if it so happens that I don't need to direct my eyes towards an external object during the day. I don't do these things on purpose. Sambhavi even ruins the odd photo - if I'm caught at the wrong moment, I will look like a zombie, with the eyelids half closed and the eyeballs pointing up. Tough luck.

It is possible that you might get into a habit where you tongue blocks the nostrils alternately without you intending to do it. Is that what it is, or did you mean to say that you can do nadi shodhana effortlessly throughout the day?
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2018 :  02:31:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog

Dear albechan,

The science of breath was of my interest and I digged too.





That's very interesting: I will have a look at the sources you mentioned.
Thanks a lot!
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2018 :  02:38:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat


It is possible that you might get into a habit where you tongue blocks the nostrils alternately without you intending to do it. Is that what it is, or did you mean to say that you can do nadi shodhana effortlessly throughout the day?



That's a fair point: I wouldn't say it became an automatic kriya. It's more that after a prolonged reiterated intention to do so, followed by actual practice, my tongue is now accustomed to slip in there without much thought. So I guess that I can do it effortlessly more than automatically as there's still a push from the mind in order to activate it.
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Virochana

USA
1 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2019 :  6:55:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Virochana's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Albechan,

Generally NadiShodhana purifies, vitalizes, and balances the solar and lunar channels, which then makes us fit for the next stages of pranayama (for those who love this). Not sure why you would want to do the alternate nostril breath all day in light of this.

For your info, there are types of pranayama which alternate the left and right which do not use a finger to block the nose, just the intention and awareness of how the breath is being inhaled and exhaled.

In context of deeper practice, the outer breath leads to the inner breath, which is when pranayama really starts. Again, pranayama is centering in the comsic finer movements of the breath beyond the physical breath. Just like riding a bike with training wheels is technically riding a bike, but not the real spirit of it - riding up a mountain, going places, swooping down a hill...

Kumbhuka (holding the breath) is the classical way of developing this, particularly when the still breath is already familiar with in the upper centers. When the outer breath comes into a stillness and equilibrium, then a subtle breath is more easily noticed.

So after first staying with the months of nadishodhana combined with other aspects (enjoying each step of the way), then kumbhuka gathers more focus in our sadhana. If outer force is used, this negates the whole purpose of relaxing into the inner breath, so it slowly increased. Navi (navel) kriyas also help in the alignment needed so that we become fit for this type of practice. The solar plexus (and our emotions) needs to be relatively free of constriction so that the breath is naturally easy, smooth, and without hickups.

The aftereffects of extended kumbhukas, particularly when done in conjunction with other practices such as sungazing, looking to the third eye, and opening the heart, do tend to stay with us the whole day, or most of the day. The breath will naturally slow down. It is really, an amazing development in our sadhana for those who are attracted to this kind of endevour.
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Charliedog

1506 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2019 :  03:01:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Virochana
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AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2019 :  10:31:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2019 :  11:36:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Virochana

Hi Albechan,

Generally NadiShodhana purifies, vitalizes, and balances the solar and lunar channels, which then makes us fit for the next stages of pranayama (for those who love this). Not sure why you would want to do the alternate nostril breath all day in light of this.

For your info, there are types of pranayama which alternate the left and right which do not use a finger to block the nose, just the intention and awareness of how the breath is being inhaled and exhaled.

In context of deeper practice, the outer breath leads to the inner breath, which is when pranayama really starts. Again, pranayama is centering in the comsic finer movements of the breath beyond the physical breath. Just like riding a bike with training wheels is technically riding a bike, but not the real spirit of it - riding up a mountain, going places, swooping down a hill...

Kumbhuka (holding the breath) is the classical way of developing this, particularly when the still breath is already familiar with in the upper centers. When the outer breath comes into a stillness and equilibrium, then a subtle breath is more easily noticed.

So after first staying with the months of nadishodhana combined with other aspects (enjoying each step of the way), then kumbhuka gathers more focus in our sadhana. If outer force is used, this negates the whole purpose of relaxing into the inner breath, so it slowly increased. Navi (navel) kriyas also help in the alignment needed so that we become fit for this type of practice. The solar plexus (and our emotions) needs to be relatively free of constriction so that the breath is naturally easy, smooth, and without hickups.

The aftereffects of extended kumbhukas, particularly when done in conjunction with other practices such as sungazing, looking to the third eye, and opening the heart, do tend to stay with us the whole day, or most of the day. The breath will naturally slow down. It is really, an amazing development in our sadhana for those who are attracted to this kind of endevour.




Hi Virochana,
Thank you so much for your detailed contribution.
The reason why I practice Nadishodhana many hours per day is because it feels good and gives me a strong sense of balance.
Basically it slows down my breathing rate and this gives me a profound relaxation feeling.
Nevertheless, I sense that you are right in pointing to the fact that alternate nostril breathing is some sort of preliminary phase.
Unfortunately I havenít experienced yet stillness in the outer breath so I may take your advice seriously and introduce kumbhuka into my practice.
Do you suggest any particular way to do that?
What I can say is that ongoing Nadishodhana worked really great so far also because I finally started to feel a very strong current during khechari that I wasnít able to feel until a short time ago.
It gives me an amazingly soothing feeling at the Ajna that seems to bring along a very peaceful sense of contentment.
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1437 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2019 :  5:25:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi albechan

Have you read the Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka lesson on this website? And equally important, have you read the AYP lessons on self-pacing? Kumbhaka is a powerful practice. You need to build up to it.

In AYP, Nadi Shodhana is a recommended as an alternative to spinal breathing pranayama, for those who are oversensitive to practices. It is a more gentle practice than SBP, but of course any practice, extended over many hours every day, may end up being too much, or unbalancing to your overall routine, which should have a balance of meditation and energy practices (like pranayama).

If you have not read the lessons on this website already, I do recommend that you do. There is a lot of useful information in them.

All the best
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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  02:16:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat

Hi albechan

Have you read the Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka lesson on this website? And equally important, have you read the AYP lessons on self-pacing? Kumbhaka is a powerful practice. You need to build up to it.

All the best



Hello BlueRaincoat,

Thanks a lot for your contribution as well.
I read all AYP lessons and some practices resonate with me more than others. Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka is not one of those.
Honestly speaking self-pacing is not much of a concern to me as I do a lot of DM, which has a great silencing effect, and my life style involves a lot of activities that work miracles for grounding, especially those around pets and animals (I interact daily with my dogs, cats and weekly with horses as well). It's my opinion (and experience of course) that animals are one of the most effective keys for managing energy overloads.
I can't deny that some nights I have issues to sleep because of the high energy in my body, but as soon as I "sink" the sensations into silence it feels great so I guess it's not a big issue at all...
I will follow your suggestion to resume SBP that I put it aside to favour Nadishodhana.
Love
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Christi

United Kingdom
3517 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  03:25:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi albechan,

As others have said, any practice, taken to an extreme, can lead to energetic imbalances. There can be delayed reactions involved in this as well. Finding it difficult to sleep at night is one of the early warning signs that things are beginning to get out of balance and is a flag to start self-pacing.

Nadi Shodhana (alternate nostril breathing) can be used in three ways in AYP. One is as a substitute for Spinal Breathing for over-sensitive meditators. Another way is to add ANB on to our practice session before Spinal Breathing Pranayama. A third way is to incorporate it into the Spinal Breathing practice.

This is covered in lesson addition 41.1:

"Still, if you are an avid nadi shodana practitioner, or are strongly attracted to it, it will do no harm to incorporate it into your routine. If you have time, you can do some alternate nostril breathing before spinal breathing. Or you can incorporate it into your spinal breathing session. Keep in mind that nadi shodana is not recommended if you are a beginner in spinal breathing. There is plenty to learn in taking up spinal breathing - new habits to develop - and nadi shodana is not in the mix for the reasons mentioned. But, since it has been asked about by several people, and perhaps wondered about by others, it is covered here." [Yogani]

Adding breath retention onto a practice routine should be managed carefully as it is a powerful practice, with possible powerful delayed energetic effects. Being around animals, although enjoyable, may well make little difference if prana becomes seriously out of balance in the body. With AYP practices, breath retention is only used with advanced practices and is approached in a very measured way. Where it is used, such as with Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka and Dynamic Jalandhara Bandha, some direction is being given to the energetic flows in the body, by incorporating Spinal Breathing into the breath retention technique. This helps to bring the prana forwards towards the ajna chakra and helps to keep it balanced and away from the crown, avoiding a possible premature crown chakra activation.

Using breath retention as a stand alone practice is not advised, as it can lead to serious imbalances over the long term, with little or no direction being given to the prana.

Spinal Breathing Pranayama is a far safer practice to begin with than breath retentions, as it purifies the subtle neurobiology in a gentle and balanced way. Spinal Breathing is so effective that it can be used by both beginners and advanced practitioners without the need to ever use kumbhakas if someone does not want to. They become the icing on the cake for advanced practitioners.

best wishes

Christi





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albechan

Italy
26 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  08:08:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi albechan,

As others have said, any practice, taken to an extreme, can lead to energetic imbalances. There can be delayed reactions involved in this as well. Finding it difficult to sleep at night is one of the early warning signs that things are beginning to get out of balance and is a flag to start self-pacing.




Hello Christi,
Your suggestions make a lot of sense and are very valuable.
I will refer to them as well to proceed further in the next steps.
I'm very grateful to receive so many sensible inputs.
Take care

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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1437 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  10:32:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by albechan
self-pacing is not much of a concern to me as I do a lot of DM,


You are looking for trouble Albechan. Do you think Yogani limits the length of the DM sessions to 20 minutes for no reason at all?

Please pay attention to the lessons and heed Christi's advice. You don't know what you're letting yourself in for.

Take care

Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Feb 08 2019 12:20:47 PM
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