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 Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
 Buddism. Formless attainments. Dzogchen. Zen.
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90benjammin

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Nov 03 2018 :  08:57:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Last week i had a wierd experience at the therevaden monastery. I had a wierd day walking around the monastery feeling emotions that a soldier may experiance. I decided at nighttime meditation i would escape instead of my normal light insight meditation i zoned into the formless attainments. I was resting in the 2nd formless attainment my old object of mindfulness and entered into samadi. I had never gone further so i decided i would try and i went into the third formless attainment nothingness. I stayed there for 5 minutes and let go again entering the 4th formless attainment “niether perception nor non perception.” At this point my head is down looking like im sleeping and im dripping drool onto my hands yet i could care less. Everyone leaves meditation and i stayed and did not want to lose this state. I started to move, opened eyes, went back to dorm, woke up and i was now using 4th formless attainment for mindfulness and it was almost effortless.

The next few days i went from sleeping 9 hours to 4-6 hours and no desire to eat, have sex, or sleep. I also left monastery. I lost my sense of being human. The buddha says these states make you born into the god (deva) realm but this is not the end of birth and death the goal in buddism. I did feel like a god able to move this body around however i felt fit although i didnt feel much at all no pleasure to not pleasure pure uppeka (equanimity). I felt like i died, could accomplish anything, and yet felt as if i had no reason to accomplish anything. I started to investigate rigpa in dzogchen and kensho/ satori in zen. Eventually i dropped my object of mindfulness the 4th formless attainment And i think i may have entered rigpa/zen silent illumination. I felt myself again, felt like i had a slight urge to eat, felt alive again and like myself. At this point it was completely effortless mindfulness. Last night i slept more too. My ego is back but i am aware of it and do not need to act on it.

Whats next? Was that rigpa or begining of my ability to enter “enlightenment” when i went into effortless mindfulness?

Should i stay in 4th formless attainment that is near effortless or in effortless state of my true being. Or both?

90benjammin

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Nov 03 2018 :  3:09:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.google.com/amp/s/altaic...worship/amp/

Please look at the reading before and after “embracing transendence” to understand what the 4th formless attainment may mean in hindu religion.
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lalow33

USA
919 Posts

Posted - Nov 03 2018 :  10:35:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Got no idea. If you are practicing Buddhism, I would ask the people that practice it.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3449 Posts

Posted - Nov 03 2018 :  10:49:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Benjamin,

If you have a choice between "near effortless" and "effortless" abiding, then choose effortless. However, you may not always have the choice, in which case you will have to make some effort.

It sounds like good things are happening.

You may find this lesson useful:

Lesson 327 - The Evolutionary Stages of Mind

and also this lesson addition from the AYP Plus forum:

Addition 327.1 - The Rose of Enlightenment is Still a Rose by Any Other Name


Terma such as rigpa, dzogchen, kensho, satori, formless attainment and silent illumination, can be useful as milestones on the path, but they can also become attachments to hold onto when they are perceived at the level of the mind. Even these things have to be transcended.

Christi
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jonesboy

USA
568 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2018 :  2:57:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by 90benjammin

Last week i had a wierd experience at the therevaden monastery. I had a wierd day walking around the monastery feeling emotions that a soldier may experiance. I decided at nighttime meditation i would escape instead of my normal light insight meditation i zoned into the formless attainments. I was resting in the 2nd formless attainment my old object of mindfulness and entered into samadi. I had never gone further so i decided i would try and i went into the third formless attainment nothingness. I stayed there for 5 minutes and let go again entering the 4th formless attainment “niether perception nor non perception.” At this point my head is down looking like im sleeping and im dripping drool onto my hands yet i could care less. Everyone leaves meditation and i stayed and did not want to lose this state. I started to move, opened eyes, went back to dorm, woke up and i was now using 4th formless attainment for mindfulness and it was almost effortless.

The next few days i went from sleeping 9 hours to 4-6 hours and no desire to eat, have sex, or sleep. I also left monastery. I lost my sense of being human. The buddha says these states make you born into the god (deva) realm but this is not the end of birth and death the goal in buddism. I did feel like a god able to move this body around however i felt fit although i didnt feel much at all no pleasure to not pleasure pure uppeka (equanimity). I felt like i died, could accomplish anything, and yet felt as if i had no reason to accomplish anything. I started to investigate rigpa in dzogchen and kensho/ satori in zen. Eventually i dropped my object of mindfulness the 4th formless attainment And i think i may have entered rigpa/zen silent illumination. I felt myself again, felt like i had a slight urge to eat, felt alive again and like myself. At this point it was completely effortless mindfulness. Last night i slept more too. My ego is back but i am aware of it and do not need to act on it.

Whats next? Was that rigpa or begining of my ability to enter “enlightenment” when i went into effortless mindfulness?

Should i stay in 4th formless attainment that is near effortless or in effortless state of my true being. Or both?



It sounds more like you had a nice opening, hit on some dispassion and have probably come back down to earth now.

What you experienced is pretty common and can throw some for a loop. When you feel that dispassion the best thing to do is to think of others, to be of service.

What you are describing is not Rigpa but don't let that slow you down any. The asleep and yet not asleep is a sign of issues being released. Of going deeper than what you can consciously maintain. So it is like you check out for a bit. A very good sign.

The one thing I would suggest, is to not try to control anything. Just do your meditation and let it be and go where it will go.
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90benjammin

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2018 :  12:28:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments. I guess this article describes what I discovered best I think. https://www.lionsroar.com/forum-for...-meditation/

Since last post I have done formal sitting for only 1 hour. That being said I do not feel formal sitting is needed anymore because I am keeping steady mindfulness and it is as close as I can imagine to being effortless yet at the same time I can still get out of the consciousness so there must be some effort there.

I detoxed from 16 mg of suboxone in 7 days and had no cravings, quit eating meat, have my favorite flavor of ice cream in freezer that never would last more than a day or 2 prior and I haven't even thought about opening it. I also am way more productive than ever and don't need as much sleep. I feel like I lost a big part of my ego and yet Im still here just living on new terms. Life is good. Spread the love!

Benjammin
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Christi

United Kingdom
3449 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2018 :  04:04:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Benjamin

As Jonesboy says, it sounds as if you are making good progress on the path.

It is important to keep up your daily sitting practice, regardless of how you feel during the day. Even if you feel that you are cultivating a strong degree of mindfulness (sati), this in itself is not sufficient for liberation. Being mindful can be useful, bet we also need to know what to be mindful of and what not to be mindful of. When a tiger is stalking its prey, it is very mindful of the object it is stalking, but that mindfulness will not lead to freedom. Only to a meal, or disppointment.

So we also need to develop other qualities such as discrimination (viveka), insight (vipassana) and wisdom (pannya). All of these things are cultivated through sitting practices and especially meditation.

It sounds as if you are dealing with addictive tendencies as well and I am glad that you are having some success so far. Getting more physically active can help with this, as it helps to become more balanced. Asana practice can help with this, as can things like physical exercise (workouts) and activities such as walking in nature.

Christi
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jonesboy

USA
568 Posts

Posted - Nov 09 2018 :  08:40:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree with Cristi.

Mindfulness is just the first step into realizing silence in daily life, not the end.

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