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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 10:09:23 AM
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Hi folks,
Current practice is 5 min SBP, 20 DM(alternative mantra enhancement), and samyama.
After about 5 min of DM, I don't know/feel the mantra as a thought or a subtle body vibration. It's like a tension before a thought, then like a desire to have an intention of a thought.
Samyama is the same way. They are suppose to be different practices. I feel like something is a little off.
I hope this makes sense. |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 10:22:38 AM
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Samyama is ultimately touching the sutra and 15 seconds of letting go. DM is clinging to the mantra once you have gone off track. Maybe you can stop samyama for a week and then resume again to make out any differences.
Good luck! |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 11:24:42 AM
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Thanks jusmail,
I know what you mean. When the mantra is delicious, you melt into it.
What's weird with me is that I lose body and subtle body awareness. I'm starting to lose thought awareness as well. I favor the impulse to think the mantra, and I favor letting go of the impulse of the sutras. But it seems so similar.
Do you consciously will yourself to think? I don't know. How subtle is too subtle?
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 2:20:21 PM
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DM touches/cultivates the silent stillness. Samyama moves the silent stillness in a certain way.
Yes, you give very good cues for the meditation process: we melt, lose body, we lose the thoughts, lose the mind  - and we keep going. What is there? Deeper and deeper stillness. Where are you? What are you? What is everything else?
In samyama, the sutras drop into the deep silence, like pebbles in a still lake, and the silence amplifies them, reverberating in the whole creation.
I would say do not hang or cling to the mantra. Let it be, let it go without any expectation of how it is supposed to be. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 2:52:01 PM
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A few times, when I've been practicing samyama, the mantra has accidentally come up instead of a sutra. It's been very rare, but it's happened a few times. It usually happens when I've disappeared into stillness, and I totally lose track of what I'm doing. I laugh at the embedded impulse to go back to the mantra, but then I consciously return to the sutras.
Of course, samyama has more of a set rhythm, but with DM, all the rules go out the window in regards to rhythm. 
I just always remind myself...don't fight the mind. Befriend it. Then the mantra and the sutras become vehicles for enriching the mental/emotional/physical territory. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2018 : 5:39:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
I would say do not hang or cling to the mantra. Let it be, let it go without any expectation of how it is supposed to be.
Indeed. That is consistent with the AYP meditation procedure.
No clinging to the mantra in AYP. Easily favour the mantra. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2018 : 07:40:31 AM
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If we are to go with feelings - no, the two do not feel at all the same to me. In DM, I am relaxed but alert and favouring the mantra, always felt as a subtle vibration unless I completely lose it to samadhi. So DM is active, a continuous flow of ripples. In Samyama, I am Stillness and apart the subtle hint of a sutra (barely creating a ripple), I remain Stillness.
Sey  |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2018 : 12:34:58 PM
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You guys/gals are giving good advice. I'm just in new territory, and I'm not sure that I'm explaining it correctly.
Imagine that you have no body awareness and no subtle body awareness. You start meditation with the mantra and the narrator chimes in. Then, you are no longer aware of the narrator and the mantra doesn't come out. The mind is still there, but you are not aware of it's thoughts, Just an impulse of the mantra but aren't aware if it is actually formed, then it a bit less than an impulse. Like a desire to repeat the mantra but have no awareness of what's coming out, if anything. The mind seems to not really move, but I haven't lost complete awareness of it. Same thing with Samyama. I'm not aware of any thoughts or vibrations. The mind is still there. I just have no clue what it's doing.
Hopefully, it's all baked in. I can't feel subtle body movements, vibrations, and eventually don't know what I'm thinking. Yet, I'm not in pure awareness 'cause I can tell there's a desire to have a thought. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2018 : 2:03:58 PM
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Hi Lalow,
If you are practicing Deep Meditation and the narrator chimes in, then you simply favour the mantra with your attention over the narrator (or anything else happening in the mind). If the mantra has become a subtle vibration, or a mere impulse, then you simply do the same thing- favour this over anything else going on.
If the mind is transcended (no mantra, no thoughts), then there is nothing to do until you notice that you are off the mantra. Then you easily favour the mantra again (at whatever level it is at) with your awareness.
Gradually a process will happen which is the cultivation of the witness. This is where you become aware that you are not any object of the mind, or the mantra, but are simply aware of everything that is arising and passing away in the mind. So it is like a "stepping back" from the mind.
Eventually, as the witness becomes stronger and present more of the time, it will gradually evolve into discrimination, dispassion and unity.
See lesson 333:
Lesson 333 - Dissolving the Witness in Unity
and also:
The Evolutionary Stages of Mind
Samyama is different. We are not favouring the sutras over anything else. We simply touch upon them (again, at whatever level they are at) and release into silence. If you are in a state of transcendence and are not able to do this, because the mind is too still, or you are beyond the mind, then you can simply wait until you are able to touch upon the sutra and release it into silence. So samyama can be a process of touching on a sutra, releasing into silence and then being gone (transcended) for several minutes. Then touching upon the sutra again and again transcending the mind. If you have the time, the whole practice can be done in this way. If you are short on time, then the practice can be ended after 10 or 20 minutes or so.
See lesson 317 Question 4.
Christi
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2018 : 2:08:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
The mind is still there. I just have no clue what it's doing.
Been there!
There are plenty of WTF moments to be had during DM/samyama that baffle the mind and the witness. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2018 : 3:18:11 PM
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Christi,
The mind is still there. I've had it dissolve or lost awareness of it before. I'm not really transcending it, now. I just become clueless as to what it's doing which makes meditation and Samyama seem similar. I'll do my best. It'll probably change in a week or two.
Bodhi,
No doubt! |
Edited by - lalow33 on Apr 25 2018 3:20:15 PM |
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Meditation and Samyama too similar?
