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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 22 2017 : 07:54:10 AM
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Hy Mykal, sorry for the delayed answer.
I did not write much about my practice because this thread is about pranayama, and my experience of attention spontaneously going downwards with the inbreath and upwards with the outbreath refers to breath meditation.
Anyway, concerning your question:
I don't trace any specific path during breath meditation - I just let attention move freely with the breath.
On the outbreath, sometimes attention goes up to ajna, sometimes it even goes through ajna to a point located somewhere in front of my face. But most of the time attention just moves upwards in an unspecific way.
The same applies to the inbreath: usually attention just moves downwards in the belly area, sometimes it goes all the way down to the root chakra or even lower between the legs; other times it goes through the belly to a point located in front of it.
But this is only one of the patterns that happen during my breath meditation sessions. There are several other patterns that may also happen spontaneously. That's one aspect that I really like about breath meditation: it's self-refreshing and very different from session to session, and even during the same session. Mantra meditation is more powerful (no experiential doubt about it!) but for me it became both strenuous and boring. Maybe I will keep up mantra meditation again later, who knows.
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2017 : 09:02:22 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
Seems interesting.
Do you still have conductivity going on, without the two poles?
I experience "boredom" of DM from time to time, but I always thought that is so by design  , so didn't worry about it much.
No really, I find it good to just take 1-2 mins at the beginning, to just view the body&mind&energy and let loose.
When all is good, then I start with DM. Otherwise => "good technique, no feeling".
Maybe that would take the strain out?
Or did you mean that you overload? |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 05:31:56 AM
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Hi Mykal
The feeling in the spine from root to ajna and the relationship between the two poles is still there, although it became less sharp and more spacious (for lack of better words) since quitting SBP. Now, I don't know if that is what you call conductivity.
When I wrote that mantra meditation became "strenuous" I just wanted to say that after 3 years of DM the fun was gone - you know, the kind of feelings you have when you keep going at the office to do a job that you actually don't enjoy anymore. The job is still easy to do and you are even well paid and the coworkers are friendly, but you actually force yourself to do it until one day you decide to do something else. This does not mean that the job was bad - it's just that you changed and needed to do something different. That's the way life goes, at least mine.  |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 06:09:31 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
quote:
When I wrote that mantra meditation became "strenuous" I just wanted to say that after 3 years of DM the fun was gone
Deep Meditation is not designed to be interesting, or exiting, or fun, or a form of entertainment for the mind. It is designed to cultivate inner silence, the witness and to bring about transcendence (samadhi). If we are looking for entertainment or excitement, then that can be dangerous, because we would need to keep switching techniques every time we felt we were not being entertained enough by the technique we are using. It is sometimes referred to as spiritual materialism: Trying to get want we want (or what we think we want), only on a spiritual level rather than a material level.
Going through boredom, if it arises, is an important part of the practice. Otherwise we are simply trying to avoid pain and seeking pleasure, which is a recipe for suffering over the long term.
Christi |
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 08:49:11 AM
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Since the advent of conductivity, SBP for me became a way to settle into the session, to remind me of prana flow up and down the shushumna, to take a few moments to be mindful of what my body tells me before commencing DM. This way I feel "locked in" to however inner silence expresses itself that day (the flavor changes daily).
Doing meditation just for the sake of doing, and surrendering all expectations, brings me to the cushion each day for I know whatever effort I put in is changing me for the better daily, and for the long term. With this mind set, boredom isn't even an option. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 10:43:04 AM
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Hi Christi
Ok, you did not like the word „fun“ referred to „DM“ but, look, I really did not mean „fun“ the way you understood it.
To make it clear (at least I hope so), let’s say that in my case someday the inner call to do DM was not felt anymore and was replaced by another inner call to switch to breath meditation. That’s that simple.
If I remember well, you did yourself follow several different teachings before you met AYP, so I imagine that you also have direct experience of that inner call that, over the years, kept you moving on to something new from time to time – another yoga approach, another teacher, another ashram, another meditation technique.
You speak about „spiritual materialism“ – quite strong words compared to the overall friendly tone of this thread. Please don’t mind if I suggest you to consider that there are people with a more playful approach to life and yoga, and that this is also OK and not necessarily to be bashed as spiritual materialism. |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 11:17:46 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
quote:
The feeling in the spine from root to ajna and the relationship between the two poles is still there, although it became less sharp and more spacious (for lack of better words) since quitting SBP. Now, I don't know if that is what you call conductivity.
Do you mean you feel the space (a tunnel), or do you feel the (electric) ecstasy flowing?
quote:
When I wrote that mantra meditation became "strenuous" I just wanted to say that after 3 years of DM the fun was gone - you know, the kind of feelings you have when you keep going at the office to do a job that you actually don't enjoy anymore. The job is still easy to do and you are even well paid and the coworkers are friendly, but you actually force yourself to do it until one day you decide to do something else. This does not mean that the job was bad - it's just that you changed and needed to do something different. That's the way life goes, at least mine.
Well, I have changed 2 jobs because of the same reason, so I believe I understand the situation you describe 100%.
If that is what happened to you with DM, go for it. Hope you find (or have already found) your thing.
I trust you know the difference in changing the job because you find yourself in momentary deppression (purification), and where you change the job because, well, that job just ain't good for ya  . |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2017 : 12:45:57 PM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
quote:
If I remember well, you did yourself follow several different teachings before you met AYP, so I imagine that you also have direct experience of that inner call that, over the years, kept you moving on to something new from time to time – another yoga approach, another teacher, another ashram, another meditation technique.
I have taken on a number of spiritual practices over the years, including breathing meditation and still practice all of them. As I am sure you know, breathing meditation is offered in AYP as a temporary alternative to mantra meditation for people who are finding the mantra too powerful.
I am not saying that people cannot change spiritual practices if they want to. But if you are switching techniques from one to another, deliberately because you are looking for some kind of experience, or trying to get away from some kind of experience, that is when it can become dangerous. There are an infinite number of experiences that can be searched for, or avoided, and an infinite number of techniques that can be tried. So it can become a never ending game and I have seen people waste years of their lives playing it. Hence the strong warning.
It comes back to the story of the well, and the need to dig deep in one place if you want to find water.
Christi |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 02:06:04 AM
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Hi Mykal,
I wouldn't call that a "tunnel". It's hard to describe... the tiny thread that I felt in the spine 3 years ago now feels wider, almost physically present, and a kind of energy can move along it in a smooth and intelligent way. Those words may be inappropriate for that feeling, but think you get it. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 02:28:20 AM
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Hi Christi
I agree that switching techniques too often is not the best thing to do because, like all things in life, one definitely has to invest time on a given technique in order to learn/integrate it (and that alone takes some months) and make some progress.
Now, concerning the story of the well, I don't think that you can use it to justify that one should use a single technique all the time. I am a civil engineer, so digging many kinds of wells is something I have been doing for 3 decades and I can assure you that even when you want to dig in the same place you have to switch between different tools - you encounter many layers of different materials to dig through, and - most relevant - from time to time you must take a break from digging and check the walls of the well because if you are busy with digging all the time you may overlook the fact that the wall may lack stability. |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 05:32:23 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
That's interesting.
What happens with the energy when you do your breathing meditation technique? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 05:51:01 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
I am not an engineer and have never dug a well.
But from a spiritual point of view, the analogy of digging one well in one place to find water, means to stay with one technique (or set of practices) long enough to realize the fruits of that practice. So if we reach a deeper place in our practice and things begin to arise that may be difficult to deal with, such as boredom, or fear, or anxiety, or sadness, or hopelessness, then we stay with our practice and move through that stage.
There are many such stages that can arise as we go deeper with our practices.
As you may know, there are specific tools in the AYP toolbox that can be used to "blast through" particularly stubborn obstructions (layers of harder rock), such as spinal bastrika and targeted spinal bastrika. But staying with the same meditation practice is important even whilst using different tools.
So I am not saying that you should not practice breathing meditation as a main practice. It is a very beautiful meditation technique. I am simply saying, be careful about switching techniques whenever things arise that are difficult to deal with. The same things (blockages) will also arise with breathing meditation at some point, because they are rooted in the matrix of obstructions in the subtle nervous system, not in the meditation technique. So if there is a tendency for avoidance, then it will be on to the next meditation technique and so on, never quite moving through that layer of rock.
Christi |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 11:34:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mykal K
What happens with the energy when you do your breathing meditation technique?
Hi Mykal, I find it quite hard to answer your question... sometimes nothing seems to happen on the energy level... sometimes there are smooth energy movements along the spine... other times I feel like bathing with my whole body in a ball of energy that first arises inside me and then radiates in all directions becoming bigger and bigger.
In my own experience, DM as per AYP had a slight different impact on energy than breath meditation : I would say that DM enhanced energy movements up and down along the spine, whilst breath meditation is more conductive to experiencing energy as a spacious thing. But, again, it's very hard to explain it with words, even more in english.
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 1:03:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Vfrom a spiritual point of view, the analogy of digging one well in one place to find water, means to stay with one technique (or set of practices) long enough to realize the fruits of that practice. So if we reach a deeper place in our practice and things begin to arise that may be difficult to deal with, such as boredom, or fear, or anxiety, or sadness, or hopelessness, then we stay with our practice and move through that stage.
Hi Christi,
Maybe I got you wrong, but I find this statement of yours not much in line with the way the AYP lessons deal with discomfort. I mean, in the lessons it is stated very clearly that self-pacing is appropriated when we experience discomfort like anxiety, fear... Now, you recommend to stay with the practice in order to go through those difficulties. I would appreciate if you could clarify your point of view. Thank you in advance. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2017 : 5:33:21 PM
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quote:
Maybe I got you wrong, but I find this statement of yours not much in line with the way the AYP lessons deal with discomfort. I mean, in the lessons it is stated very clearly that self-pacing is appropriated when we experience discomfort like anxiety, fear... Now, you recommend to stay with the practice in order to go through those difficulties. I would appreciate if you could clarify your point of view. Thank you in advance.
Hi Ecdyonurus,
Self pacing means cutting back on practice times temporarily if painful or unpleasant symptoms arise. So we cut back to a level where we are stable with our practices and where the discomfort is eased. Then, when the discomfort passes we increase our practice times again, watching out for uncomfortable symptoms arising due to excessive energy in the body. So self pacing can go two ways, cutting back on practice times, and increasing them when necessary.
That is different from switching practices in order to avoid something, such as boredom, or because the new practice may be more interesting or entertaining. Or fun.
Boredom is not actually caused by energetic overload. It is caused by the mind becoming dull (tamasic), due to a lack of energy (virya). So cutting back on practice times would not be an effective approach to boredom. With increased practice, more energy arises and the mind comes into a more pure and balanced state (sattvic), where boredom does not arise. The sattvic mind (neither dull nor agitated) is the gateway to samadhi.
When boredom does arise, it is often because the mind has been over-active (rajasic) in the past, and is swinging to the other end of the pendulum into dullness. So it is a stage on the path that some people need to go through to come into balance.
Christi |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 02:08:10 AM
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Hi Ecdyonurus,
Tnx for the explanation, I know these things are not easy to put into words.
For me, it is very easy to stay inside the channel, and is pretty 'interesting', so I have no impulse to change the technique.
(EDIT: When I say 'interesting', I mean I have the feeling of going with the flow, and in attunement with my being. I do not mean 'interesting' in the sense that I am feeding my energetic diseases with it.)
At least for time being.
Maybe later .
I find experimentation very important. It gives us more understanding, and it strenghtens our intuition. It is the backbone of intelligence.
Thank you for sharing your practice, and for following your feeling in the first place. |
Edited by - Mykal K on Mar 25 2017 05:22:49 AM |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 06:30:00 AM
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| Hi Mykal, yes, IMO intuition is very important, and the ability to hear and trust the voice of your intuition is something to cultivate. In our culture, sadly, we learn from the very beginning to overhear it or even make it shut. We learn to trust many kind of external belief and power systems - your parents, your teacher, your boss, your president - more than our own intuition. |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 07:24:34 AM
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 10:15:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Hi Mykal, yes, IMO intuition is very important, and the ability to hear and trust the voice of your intuition is something to cultivate. In our culture, sadly, we learn from the very beginning to overhear it or even make it shut. We learn to trust many kind of external belief and power systems - your parents, your teacher, your boss, your president - more than our own intuition.
There is a balance in everything, isn't there?
We trust our intuition while also being mindful that our teacher has experienced parts of the path that we have not yet arrived at. From that experience he/she draws teachings that are valuable to us.
While we don't always choose our boss or president, or the teachers in school, we choose our spiritual teacher. What is the point of choosing a teacher and then not heeding his advice? |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Mar 25 2017 10:42:59 AM |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 10:57:13 AM
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quote:
There is a balance in everything, isn't there?
We trust our intuition while also being mindful that our teacher has experienced parts of the path that we have not yet arrived at. From that experience he/she draws teachings that are valuable to us.
While we don't always choose our boss or president, or the teachers in school, we choose our spiritual teacher. What is the point of choosing a teacher and then not heeding his advice?
Hi BlueRaincoat,
heeding the advice of the teacher is good, and welcome.
However, it is our intuition that has guided us to the teacher, telling us that what the teacher says is good.
Also, it is the intuition that can also say, that what the teacher says is not good.
If that were to happen, would you follow the teacher, or your intuition?
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2017 : 1:38:52 PM
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Hi Mykal K
I haven't experienced that many situations of that sort. There was one occasion years ago when the teaching clashed with my intuition. I left the teacher then. After that, I guess I had enough of an idea of what I expected from a teacher. Enough to ruled out many as either not experienced enough or simply because I felt instinctively I could not trust them without reservations. Then I found AYP. I find there is so much flexibility in AYP, that I get plenty of space to follow my intuition. And I can do that within the safety of a tried and tested method. Best of both worlds I would say. |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2017 : 03:20:49 AM
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Hi Blueraincoat,
I don't think it is ever the case of trusting the teacher without reservations.
In my view, we always follow the intuition, and if we are in luck, we find the teacher/teaching where he/she/it alligns with us.
Looking outside we rarely find that which is in us.
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2017 : 06:51:59 AM
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if you want to get into it you got to get out of it
if you want to get out of it you got to get into it
hawkwind |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2017 : 07:17:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar ul islam
if you want to get into it you got to get out of it
if you want to get out of it you got to get into it
That is pretty deep Kumar. I agree with you and with Hawkwind. And by that token, everything that is within you you will find outside. And everything that is outside you will find within you.
Mykal, if I ever find something in Yogani's teaching that goes against my intuition I will let you know my reaction to that situation. |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2017 : 09:38:26 AM
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quote:
Mykal, if I ever find something in Yogani's teaching that goes against my intuition I will let you know my reaction to that situation.
You don't have to. Just be aware, whom ever you follow outside, you are following yourself.
If you follow with feeling, that is.
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An alternative Spinal Breathing practice
