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 Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality)
 Expectations and the Actor of Actions
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2017 :  09:38:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Moderator note: This topic has been split from here

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

As for what to expect, it is best not to expect anything, just as with all the practices.

It's best to expect positive changes through the general mechanism of purification and opening. If no positive changes are discernable, and all that is occurring is discomfort and overload, then that is a signal to back off and self-pace with whichever practice is not meeting the general expectation of positive change.

I can understand the sentiment of not clinging to very exact material expectations, such as the expectation that bastrika will make me a millionaire, but to discard all expectations completely is unrealistic. Rather, the scope of expectations is best when it's very broad and open to many miracles.

If I said to a new student, "You don't need to believe in anything, or expect anything to happen, in order to sustain AYP practices," that would be an erroneous statement. We must believe in something, and therefore expect something to happen, in order for bhakti to sustain action. Expectation is part of vision, and vision is an integral part of the enlightenment equation. Vision + Desire + Action = Achievement.

I brush my teeth everyday because I expect that action to keep them clean. I go to work everyday because I expect to receive a paycheck, and to contribute something of value to my company. I practice AYP because I expect the practices to bring about positive changes in many forms (yes, those forms are often unexpected and unpredictable in their exactness, but they nevertheless carry certain universal qualities of stillness and ecstasy, and I expect the saturation of bliss to continue--small setbacks notwithstanding.)

Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2017 :  10:57:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi,

Yes, if someone is experiencing symptoms of energetic overload from a particular practice, then that would be a sign to self-pace that practice. But not because it has not led to any particular good result that was expected. Only because the practice has resulted in symptoms that are unpleasant. In the case of bastrika, which is very powerful, it could easily mean to cut the practice out all together for a while, rather than just cutting back on the timing.

That isn't the same as having expectations that a particular practice will produce a particular effect. It may or it may not, and holding a certain expectation may in fact turn out to be detrimental. If someone is expecting something specific to happen and it does not, then they may give up the practice, whereas that practice may have been purifying the body on the subtle level, without any outward signs. In the case of bastrika, subtle purification can go on for a long time below the surface, before there are any outward symptoms such as heat, shaking or ecstasy experienced.

Expectations are going to be there when people start out on the path, whether we like it or not, so the question is, how can we refine our expectations to a higher level, as we progress on the path, so that they do not become a danger to practice over the long term. It is a subtle refinement in the development of bhakti, where we learn to trust in (and surrender to) the practices, without holding on to specific expectations over results.

Yogani discusses it in lesson 94:

"A word that sometimes comes up when discussing practices is "expectations." We all have expectations. They are desires. Our desires are always wanting more, reaching for this or that thing. We can slip into the habit of expecting certain kinds of experiences. If we apply the technique of bhakti, we can transform the energy of our expectations, channeling them into motivation to do our daily practices. If we find expectations for visions, or whatever, coming up in practices, we treat them like any other thoughts or feelings that come up, and easily go back to the practice we are doing.

This is the way to get the house cleaning done most effectively. We aren't giving anything up by taking this approach. We are gaining everything." [Yogani]



From an overall perspective, people continue on the spiritual path because they see improvements in their life happening over time. So whereas initially expectations of what may happen often fuels bhakti (spiritual desire), at a certain point it becomes seeing results that becomes a stronger fuel for bhakti. Then surrendering expectations becomes part of the practice and part of the cultivation of inner silence. Expectations are a part of vritti, an aspect of the restlessness of the mind. So if we see yoga as chitta vritti nirodha, the stilling of the restlessness of the mind, then expectations are a part of what is stilled.

This is discussed in lesson 333 in relation to moving beyond expectations and the dissolving of the witness in unity:

"Any discomforts or expectations are signs of our lingering separation caused by obstructions in our nervous system, which include body and mind. Even the witness condition itself is a state of separation. Not more separated than we have always been, but with much greater awareness of it, because our divine Self is now known in the witness condition." [Yogani]


The same is true for samyama practice, that having expectations over the outcome of the practice will make the practice less effective, or even ineffective.

This is discussed in lesson 301.

"What do we mean by, "Prayer works, more or less"? Certainly, all prayers are not answered to our satisfaction. The more we are externally invested in the particular outcome desired from prayer, the less likely that specific outcome will be forthcoming. This is because the cultivation of expectations for a specific outcome is not true prayer (or samyama). Expectations are external projections of the mind that have little to do with prayer. Our personal desires will short-circuit the divine outflow.

On the other hand, it will be a different story if we offer a specific object in our prayers and release it to inner silence (the divine) within us without hanging on to expectations. This will always lead to a result, not necessarily exactly what we expected, but something fruitful all the same. What comes from prayer is a function of our surrender, not our expectation. This is the key point in all prayer." [Yogani]



So surrendering expectations becomes the stuff of miracles -literally.


Christi
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2017 :  7:08:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I can have restless expectations, and I can have sublimely calm expectations. So, to say that all expectations are part of the restless mind would not be accurate, in my experience. Some expectations are part of the restless mind; some expectations are part of the calm, blissful mind.

I've also previously addressed the notion of surrendering "personal" desires, and how that language is ultimately problematic. If you portray the word "personal" as being intrinsically negative, that is a big problem, just as portraying "self" as intrinsically negative is a big problem. The problem isn't personal desires; they don't "short-circuit the divine flow", as Yogani says. What short-circuits the divine flow is anti-personal desires that either harm ourselves or those around us. It is the desires and expectations that run contrary (anti-) to the health and well-being of personalities that are injurious to us and therefore against the divine flow.

Can a personal desire of mine be injurious? Yes. But can a personal desire of mine be liberating and infused with divinity? Absolutely.

If my personal desire is to love everybody unconditionally, then my personal desire is aligned with divine flow, isn't it? How then can you say that "personal desires" short-circuit the divine flow? You see?--the rhetoric of demonizing "personal" is not coherent, sound, or helpful.

What happens is that our personal desires merge with the transpersonal flow of stillness in action, divine love, and so forth. That's not impersonal, because our personality is still involved, and enriched by the process.

I've reviewed this before, so I'm not trying to change either Yogani's or your use of the language. But for others who have a more discerning eye for language and for the context and meaning of words, they may appreciate the distinction I'm making here. It's subtle, but important.

I was playing frisbee golf earlier this afternoon with a friend, and the course meanders through Florida swampland, so there are some water hazards. Along the way, each of us lost a disc when launching them over particular swamp holes. We tried to retrieve them with some tree branches, but to no avail. So, we didn't complain or gripe much; we just moved on, and joked about offering them to the frisbee gods. What did we surrender? Well, we surrendered our discs, accidentally. Then we surrendered and transformed the temporary remorse and frustration of losing the discs. But we didn't completely drop the expectation that next time--just maybe--we could complete the course without losing a disc. We still held onto some hope that next time we could walk away with all of our discs. The expectation, belief, and desire to keep all of discs will remain in place. That's how improvement, learning, and refinement of skills occur: you operate within a framework of expectations, beliefs, desires, visions of the future, and so on.

Furthermore, the sutras of samyama have specific meanings, and therefore generate specific outcomes. So, when I release "unity", of course I'm expecting "unity" to manifest in some form. I don't worry about the exactness of the manifestation, but I expect that unity will indeed come into my life and the lives of others.

The problem here is a matter of being a little too loose, and a little too lazy, with language. Yogani's rhetoric is like 97% solid, in my view, but this matter regarding "personal" and "expectations" is part of the 3% that is erroneous.

But again, I don't expect you or Yogani to change your vocabulary based on my insight. What I do expect is for some other wise minds to eventually comprehend and resonate with the points I'm making. If those wise minds don't show up, or fall short of speaking with a rational level of understanding, that's OK too. My expectations are loosely held. My language, however, is tight and snug when it needs to be.

To summarize...for those with open, linguistic minds, the advice from me is to refrain from demonizing the words "personal" or "expectations". The demonization won't serve your practice. What will serve your practice is to continue to feed stillness with your desires, expectations, visions, etc., without worrying about eradicating personal desires and expectations in the process. Good self-inquiry will investigate the kind and quality of personal desires and expectations, without blindly trying to kill them. Imbue your personal desires and expectations with the stuff of miracles. Saturate them. Like that.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2017 :  10:15:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi,


I was using the term restless literally to mean "not at rest". All mental objects are restless, because they are not at rest. They have some vibrational quality to them. What is always at rest is what is aware of mental objects. So in that sense all expectations are restless. Expectations necessarily involve the concept of time, so they are quite complex vibrational mental structures (samskaras). Sorry about the confusion there.

What you are saying about expectations is true if it is applied to the development of a skill. So if someone was studying the piano for example, and they want to get better at playing the piano, then they would have expectations about what will happen if they practice more and they would expect to see certain results from their practice. So expectations would be useful in that sense.

But yoga is not about developing a skill or about becoming better at something. It is about awakening and that involves not doing something. And the thing that we don't do, is continue to identify with what we are not.

So the question becomes, what can we do, if we are in the habit of identifying with what we are not? How can we break the habit?

This is what the whole of yoga is about. The practices are designed to slowly chip away at this whole process of identification with what we are not. So by repeatedly bringing the mind to silence and stillness, the process of identification becomes weaker, more transparent. Ideas like "my hopes", or "my fears" or "my personal beliefs", are still seen arising and passing away, but the habitual process of identification with them, becomes weaker and weaker. They don't have the same power or hold that they had before. They don't have the same sticky quality. At the same time, something else begins to come to the foreground, which was always in the background before.

We can actively engage in this process by deliberately letting go of what we are not when it arises. This is the process of viveka, or discrimination, that Yogani talks about in lesson 327:

"We directly perceive what is true and what is not, and we can easily choose. Before then, neti neti will be an exercise of the intellect, and can be as ineffective and exhausting as any other non-relational self-inquiry. We will know the witness is dawning in earnest when discrimination becomes easier. It is a telltale sign." [Yogani]

So when we see expectations arising in the mind, we can let them go in stillness. They arise and pass away, are impermanent and are not who we are. We can do this with everything that arises in the mind: All ideas, beliefs, fantasies, memories, they all arise and pass away in the mind, have a beginning and an end and are not who we are. This is also an advanced aspect of the functioning of samyama practice, where eventually everything is released into stillness continuously and nothing is held onto. This is discussed in lesson addition 302.1:

"...advanced practitioners have found samyama emerging as a natural part of everyday life, where every thought, feeling and perception is experienced in stillness, and actions in daily living emerge naturally from within that condition. So, long term practice of samyama techniques in the lessons (with the sutras provided), will lead to the fruition of samyama and yoga, which is "stillness in action" operating in all aspects of life. This is a boon in ordinary living, and particularly as a fundamental game-changer in refining how we see the world, utilizing whatever style of self-inquiry we may adopt for completing our journey into the non-dual unity condition. Advanced skill in samyama, developed over years of practice, does not lead to a pursuit of super-normal powers, but to the natural development of enlightened living beyond the reach of identified awareness and suffering." [Yogani]


So nobody is demonizing anything, neither the idea of "personal", or the idea of "expectations". Only recognising that there is a process of awakening and if we hold onto anything, anything at all, even the expectation that we will awaken, it doesn't happen.


Christi
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2017 :  11:54:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

But yoga is not about developing a skill or about becoming better at something.

LMAO. That's so terribly untrue, bro. I love you, but I've got to call you out on this one.

Yoga is about developing the skill of being alive. It is the art of being, and every art requires skill in order to become proficient in its execution, thereby achieving excellence. So many skills are acquired and developed in yoga...how to control breath, energy, and physical posture; how to dissolve mental objects and absorb oneself in silence; how to nurture the body through diet and cleansing; how to cultivate and feed a chosen ideal; how to channel sexual energy to a higher level; and the list goes on.

All these facets of yoga represent skills to be developed, and attributes to become better at. Yoga is for betterment, plain and simple. It is for betterment on all levels--body, mind, heart, and spirit.

I know that you've personally acquired many of these skills and stages of betterment, so why are you denying your own accomplishments!?

Sure, it's a doing that leads to non-doing, and the doer is beyond Bodhi or Christi, but still, here we are! Just because things become automatic and effortless, doesn't mean we disappear.

But you're spinning awakening like it hinges upon stripping identification down to nothingness, but that's only the halfway mark, at best. At worst, it's dissociation and the illusion of attainment. Beyond the witness, is ultimately unity, and in unity, we identify with NOTHING and EVERYTHING simultaneously. We are nothing, and we are everything.

I am stillness, and I am the body and mind. That's my perspective--personally, transpersonally, impersonally, or however else you want to label it.

Hey, but to each his own. I don't want to burst your bubble, especially if you're enjoying it. I'm just posting this for the benefit of the rest of the forum.

Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Jan 06 2017 11:56:03 PM
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Charliedog

1074 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  02:03:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The beauty of words is they can be received on many levels of consciousness. At the same time time this is the reason of problems. If we look at the bible and all scriptures we can see that many problems in the world are because of the differences in understanding of the readers of those holy scriptures.

The spiritual path is as much about expanding consciousness as it is about the break-down of illusions. First we have to go deep inside, and from there we can expand. This works simultaneously. The breakdown of all illusions is confronting, not nice. We become in a state of dispassion. I can only speak from the point of view I am, and looking back I can see what changed in my perspective.

From the perspective here at this moment there are illusions in your writings above Bodhi. Illusions are not wrong, we can enjoy or hate them but illusions are a reason for the suffering of human beings.

If we look to a word as expectation, it is not difficult to see that an expectation is not a truth, it's an expectation. If the expectation is not coming to the result we did expect, we are disappointed, so that is suffering. If we do not expect, but stay open to whatever result, we wil not be disappointed.

The spiritual path is to see through illusions, to stay open if we like this or not. Liking or disliking is an illusion too. I am not crystal clear here and I know that.

Christi is a crystal clear teacher, as is Yogani, we all can learn from them, I felt a strong pull to speak this out, although it is my limited view, I know they speak Truth.







Edited by - Charliedog on Jan 07 2017 03:22:14 AM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  06:47:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi,

quote:

LMAO. That's so terribly untrue, bro. I love you, but I've got to call you out on this one.

Yoga is about developing the skill of being alive. It is the art of being, and every art requires skill in order to become proficient in its execution, thereby achieving excellence. So many skills are acquired and developed in yoga...how to control breath, energy, and physical posture; how to dissolve mental objects and absorb oneself in silence; how to nurture the body through diet and cleansing; how to cultivate and feed a chosen ideal; how to channel sexual energy to a higher level; and the list goes on.


I had a feeling you would say that.

All of that is apparently true, on the level of the mind. It appears that we are developing skills, the skills that you mention such as the skill of meditation, the skill of pranayama, the skill of asana, jnana yoga and bhakti yoga and so on. You could even say that these are the highest skills that can be developed. But the idea that we are the ones who are developing these skills, that we are the actor of the actions, is what is seen through on the journey of awakening.

As we cultivate the witness through meditation, we see that actions appear on the screen of consciousness and pass away on the screen of consciousness. But also, the actor (karta) of the actions arises on the screen of consciousness and passes away, with the action. So we come to know ourselves as neither the action, or the actor, neither the thing done, or the doer of things. We come to see that we are not the one who is cultivating the skills of yoga. We are the one who is aware that all of this is arising and passing away.

Yogani mentions this in lesson 390:

"For anyone cruising near enlightenment, it is more of an oddity. It isn't a proclamation. It is the unending question, "Who is doing all this?" It is becoming the mystery in an unending surrender, because there is no answer to the question. Becoming that unknowing is as close as we can get. Then we just "do" in a divine flow toward helping others. It is not about us anymore. It is about everyone else." [Yogani]


Even the one who is asking the question "who is doing all of this?", arises and passes away on the screen of consciousness. If the idea "I have arrived" arises, that also arises on the screen of consciousness and passes away. So it is an eternal un-doing, or dissolving into the mystery, as Yogani puts it.

Unity is something that arises from that mystery, the mystery of not knowing. As Charliedog says, we need to go deep inside before we can expand. Then we come to see all of life arising as a mystery and to know ourselves to be That. That is what comes from the background to the foreground as we let go of limited self-identification.

Dissociation is an aspect of the path which occurs as we make the transition from identification with limited and temporary ideas of self, towards unity. So it is a process that has to be gone through at some point. But with abiding inner silence present, it does not need to be an issue, as inner silence brings the stability needed for the transition to take place. Yogani has discussed this in lesson addition 307.1 when talking about his own awakening:

"As sense of self becomes more centered in inner silence, periods of dissociation (or any unfamiliar experience) are more easily taken in stride because the witness is not affected.
Instead of fear, I found there to be a sense of acceptance of the inevitability of what was happening. It is a normal stage in the progression toward unity, and we do survive it." [Yogani]



Unfortunately it is not enough to simply say "here we are". That does not lead to liberation. What does lead to liberation is seeing through the whole process of false identification taking place in the mind. As Charliedog mentions, it is not always an easy path.


Christi

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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  10:00:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't worry! Good things are happening. You'll understand what I'm saying one day. Until then, onward with the non-doing!
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uniath

Finland
14 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  12:20:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,

An interesting discussion. I expect that someday I'll be able to just joyously flow through life, just like that thistledown in the video below. That feels natural, that is unity. But as long as I hold that expectation, is it really a possibility? Enough said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgZ73Lc5VS8


uniath
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Charliedog

1074 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  12:45:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  1:51:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi,

quote:
Until then, onward with the non-doing!




It is not a non-doing, after all, action is continually taking place. The only question is, who is doing it? That's the gate.


Hi Uniath,

Thanks for sharing the video.


Christi

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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  4:11:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Peace be with you, comrade.
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 07 2017 :  6:22:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog

I am not crystal clear here and I know that.

From my view, you're pretty crystal clear. Sparkling, like a diamond.

In fact, I can see you shining through my illusions, so please, keep shining.
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Charliedog

1074 Posts

Posted - Jan 08 2017 :  04:29:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
972 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  05:09:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Why don't we have a smilie for "bawling my eyes out"? - That's the one I would have used here. - For various reasons.

My use of the word "expectation" with respect to Yoni Mudra was much more mundane that the above brilliant debate.
AYP prides itself on its scientific approach - Cause and Effect. There are lengthy explanations on what each practice does. So if I do that practice, after sufficient time to get past the clunky stage, it is reasonable to expect the results from that practice, which is usually the case. All practices together lead to the overall human spiritual transformation discussed above. For example if I feel I lack sensitivity and compassion and feel certain blockages in the heart area, I can decide to do some heart breathing to unblock my heart. I expect after some months to see changes in my behaviour - I should become more loving and compassionate; the feeling of a blocked heart should dissipate. Same with Yoni Mudra. It is prescribed for purging the third eye. As I do not quite know what to expect from a "purged third eye" - I have a sense of nothing happening and a tendency to drop the practice. Perhaps I am being too scientific?


Sey



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Charliedog

1074 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  05:47:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
At this moment for me every expectation is an illusion. We can hope, we can trust, but expect?

Yogani has written the lessons after he experienced, by looking back, that's the only way. Of course, there is evidence in yoga, many followed the yoga path and have experienced and teached.

For me many words became worthless, like for instance try...., we do it, or we don't do it. It may work, or not. Many words are castle in the air builders, we can see that for instance in media/politics.

The more I go into this, the more quiet I become. We need words to communicate, but everyone receives and uses words differently, even in the same language.

What the reality is is to stay open in the un-known, take one step in the present moment, be aware of every moment. Not easy.......

This is only my self-inquiry

Edit; It is very interesting, I can't stop it anymore

Edited by - Charliedog on Jan 13 2017 06:50:42 AM
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Blanche

USA
313 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  08:13:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
While it is true that expectations may fuel the bhakti, strong expectations are a barrier to allow what it is. As they say: Hold you knowledge lightly, and it will serve you as a necklace. Hold your knowledge tightly, and it will serve you as a noose.

No expectations is the secret of happiness. Then everything that comes our way is a gift. Not a gift for us, because we are gone, melted into the infinite. A gift from Being to the Being, the Divine bowing to the Divine, reverberations in stillness that hold the world together.

Edited by - Blanche on Jan 13 2017 08:14:17 AM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  08:29:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Sey,

quote:
Why don't we have a smilie for "bawling my eyes out"? - That's the one I would have used here. - For various reasons.

My use of the word "expectation" with respect to Yoni Mudra was much more mundane that the above brilliant debate.




Maybe we can get a "bawling your eyes out smiley? We managed to get a "heart", an "Om" and a "Namaste" already, so it has to be the next on the list for the tech guys!

In the main lessons, expectations of practice are only given in a very general sense. So things like: We can expect to become more peaceful over time, or more joyful and so on, without any actual timescales being given. There are very few expectations linked to specific practices. For example with heart breathing, the practice is designed to purify the heart. But what does a purified heart feel like and how long does it take to purify it? These things are not mentioned in the lessons other than in the general sense that we will become more loving.

In practice how long the purification of the heart takes will depend on the person and their unique matrix of obstructions, and how it is experienced will change quite profoundly over time.

It is the same with the purging of the third eye. How it will be experienced will be different from person to person and the timescale will also vary enormously. There are certain experiences that can arise along the way, as the third eye is purged, such as seeing various lights of different colours, celestial visions, the ability to visit heavenly realms, the rise of intuition and the cultivation of psychic powers such as clairvoyance and being able to see into the future.

But the main reason for purifying the third eye is not to cultivate those abilities. The purified third eye acts as a stabilizer, for the purification of the whole of the subtle body. So, combined with all of the other yogic practices, we can expect the rise of whole body ecstasy, unity and divine love, to take place in a safe and controlled manner over time, knowing that we are That.

But what we can't do, is say that people who are using practices designed to purge the third eye, can expect such-and-such to happen within 2 or 3 months after the clunky stage. What would happen to people who are on a longer journey of purification and who don't experience those things happening after that timescale? Or even after 2 or 3 years of practice, or longer?

That is why I gave you the advise above not to have any expectations. Or if you do have expectations, expect to become enlightened. But as Uniath above implied, even that has to be dropped at some point. There is a saying: "You will never become enlightenment in the future".

So then the question arises, how can we practice with no expectations? As Charliedog mentions, over time we develop trust, also called "faith" or shraddha. So by seeing the results of practice over time and by seeing the results of practice in others who have been on the path longer than we have, we learn to trust that the process of yoga works. Then we can let go of our personal expectations of what may or may not happen, and simply have faith that whatever happens will be the right thing, even if we don't think it is the right thing that should be happening at that time. So it is a gradual surrendering into the divine flow, beyond all expectations, which is enlightenment. That is the real outcome of the purification of the third eye, when happening in combination with the other AYP practices.

So you can expect that as well.


Christi



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sunyata

USA
1135 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  09:54:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche


No expectations is the secret of happiness. Then everything that comes our way is a gift. Not a gift for us, because we are gone, melted into the infinite. A gift from Being to the Being, the Divine bowing to the Divine, reverberations in stillness that hold the world together.



Amen
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sunyata

USA
1135 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  09:56:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

So by seeing the results of practice over time and by seeing the results of practice in others who have been on the path longer than we have, we learn to trust that the process of yoga works. Then we can let go of our personal expectations of what may or may not happen, and simply have faith that whatever happens will be the right thing, even if we don't think it is the right thing that should be happening at that time. So it is a gradual surrendering into the divine flow, beyond all expectations, which is enlightenment. That is the real outcome of the purification of the third eye, when happening in combination will the other AYP practices.

Christi




Yes,This!
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2721 Posts

Posted - Jan 13 2017 :  9:51:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere

Why don't we have a smilie for "bawling my eyes out"? - That's the one I would have used here. - For various reasons.

My use of the word "expectation" with respect to Yoni Mudra was much more mundane that the above brilliant debate.
AYP prides itself on its scientific approach - Cause and Effect. There are lengthy explanations on what each practice does. So if I do that practice, after sufficient time to get past the clunky stage, it is reasonable to expect the results from that practice, which is usually the case. All practices together lead to the overall human spiritual transformation discussed above. For example if I feel I lack sensitivity and compassion and feel certain blockages in the heart area, I can decide to do some heart breathing to unblock my heart. I expect after some months to see changes in my behaviour - I should become more loving and compassionate; the feeling of a blocked heart should dissipate. Same with Yoni Mudra. It is prescribed for purging the third eye. As I do not quite know what to expect from a "purged third eye" - I have a sense of nothing happening and a tendency to drop the practice. Perhaps I am being too scientific?

You're not being too scientific. You're being reasonable and realistic. That's good relational self-inquiry.

Here's one of my favorites quotes from the original Ghostbusters. It's when the research scientists lose their grant money and have to leave the university. This is what Dan Aykroyd's character says:

"Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've WORKED in the private sector. They expect RESULTS!"

God forbid we expect results from each other in the spiritual realm. Maybe we should just twiddle our thumbs and talk about how we've realized the true non-dual nature of reality and conquered our egos.

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

There are certain experiences that can arise along the way, as the third eye is purged, such as seeing various lights of different colours, celestial visions, the ability to visit heavenly realms, the rise of intuition and the cultivation of psychic powers such as clairvoyance and being able to see into the future.

Oh c'mon, we can do better than that. I'm shootin' for "manipulation of all matter" and "the ability to project actions from a distance". Dig deeper into the Samyama Appendix, mate.

quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog

The more I go into this, the more quiet I become. We need words to communicate, but everyone receives and uses words differently, even in the same language.

Good point. Silence is golden.

quote:
Originally posted by Blanche

Then everything that comes our way is a gift. Not a gift for us, because we are gone, melted into the infinite. A gift from Being to the Being, the Divine bowing to the Divine, reverberations in stillness that hold the world together.

Oh, you've melted into the Infinite, have you? Well, I'm in need of some more melting myself, so will you point your infinite blowtorch in my general direction and turn me into liquid akasha so that I can join you in your infinite-ness?
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Christi

United Kingdom
3190 Posts

Posted - Jan 14 2017 :  10:09:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi

quote:
Oh c'mon, we can do better than that. I'm shootin' for "manipulation of all matter" and "the ability to project actions from a distance". Dig deeper into the Samyama Appendix, mate.




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Blanche

USA
313 Posts

Posted - Jan 15 2017 :  9:04:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bodhi,

Peace - Bliss - Love to you
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