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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 8:38:36 PM
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I see a lot in the "health and wellness" press, on-line, in apps for iPhone and other platforms about "mindfullness." There are also loads of books. At our local spiritual/New Age/Alternatives bookstore, Crazy Wisdom, I just saw dozens of titles on mindfulness and about 10% of that (not a reasoned estimate!) on meditation.
Whenever I look in one of these books, most of what I see appears to be a catalog of prescriptions for practical results from a sitting activity, rather than anything that can really promote spiritual progress and life improvement by acting at a deep level, as do DM and Transcendental Meditation, in my opinion. I see it something like seeking siddhis rather than building toward spiritual growth.
What is mindfullness, really? Aside from some apparent commercial benefits for a few, what is going on inside it? Is there any benefit in it? |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 11:20:00 PM
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| What is mindfulness? It is paying close attention to what you're doing, every nuance, every motion you make, every bodily sensation, everything you notice about your body's actions while remaining in the present moment. What it is not is - analyzing, daydreaming, philosophizing, planning a project, reminiscing on the past, imagining a romantic evening with your friend, visualizing, fantasizing etc. It is focusing the attention exclusively in the present moment without allowing the mind to become distracted and carried away. Basically it is disciplining the mind to remain in the present moment and stay grounded in the present moment. Highly recommended. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 03:19:12 AM
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Mindfulness is an important step in the yoga path. In the yoga philosophy it's called Dharana (sanskrit) or one pointedness. Like Parvati said, discipling the mind to stay in the present moment, if the mind reaches one pointedness it becomes meditation. This is Dhyana in yoga philosophy, to stay in the present moment.
In the practice of DM you can see mindfulness as the favoring of the mantra, notice that you lost it and come back to the mantra.
Different terminology in this case Western for the same practice.
If you ever would like to buy a book on mindfulness I can highly recommend Wherever you go, there you are of Jon Kabat-Zinn.  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 08:56:38 AM
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The present Now includes the past and future. The present Here includes what is out of view, as much as what is in view.
To focus on a vision, an ideal for the future...one must draw from the past. The present Moment is an uncapturable bridge between past and future. Stillness, space, emptiness...these provide the framework for change and variation.
One could pay attention to a blade of grass for hours, if that was the desire and purpose. It is desire and purpose that shape the attention of the mind.
To be mindful of what? Everything, something, nothing? The physical, the emotional, the mental? The inner, the outer, the interface between?
Mindfulness without purpose and desire is a short-sighted road. Mindfulness predicated upon a dream of Infinity, however, might lead to a place of depth, meaning, and spiritual substance. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 30 2016 08:57:21 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 09:26:51 AM
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| P.S. As Charliedog pointed out, we're mindful of the mantra, but with the purpose and desire of refining it. That is active surrender. Doing leading to non-doing. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 09:46:08 AM
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In broad perspective of mindfulness this quote means a lot to me.....
Life is what happens to you while you are making other plans
~John Lennon 
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 5:27:26 PM
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| Mindfullness is where Witness lives. |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2016 : 11:02:15 PM
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I see two main points here in your responses. One is, that mindfulness is maintaining current awareness of all of the details of your actions now. Several examples come to mind: the focus on process and activity in DM and the pranayama that precedes it, and all the postural details necessary to refine those processes and enhance the flow of prana. Another is a similar focus doing extensive asanas in a discipline-driven Iyengar class, in which no physical detail is too small to need attention, and is too small to be useful in maintaining such things as balance poses. All of these intense self-observation and action to make the details "right."
So as practitioners of DM, pranayama, and asana, we spend considerable time each day practicing mindfulness.
I also see that what I think I see in my cursory look at mindfulness literature may be useful as a supplemental meditation, though it is outside of AYP practices. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 02:33:00 AM
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Yes, but it's a matter of scope. What is the scope of the mind? Well, when connected to inner space, the scope is infinite.
There are all these mindfulness advocates preaching the importance of narrowing one's focus to what is immediately in front of you on the physical plane. The problem with that strategy is that it severely limits the scope of the infinite mind.
If I look at a flower in the backyard, and that flower triggers memories from childhood of similar flowers I used to see in my little league baseball field, and I drift off into those memories, and marvel at how the past is intimately intertwined with the present moment, am I being unmindful? What if I'm looking at a Salvador Dali painting, and his portrayal of DNA and the divine feminine spins me off into deep contemplation about the spiral-like nature of life and how women's beauty is unparalleled? Would that be a sin against mindfulness?
Give me a break. You want to be mindful of something? Be mindful of the holographic nature of the heart, and consider the possibility that the universe is contained within us. The minute details that need to be perceived are only as necessary as one's function, desire, and purpose deem them to be so.
AYP is like mindfulness turbo-charged, invigorated, animated, and illuminated to a whole 'nother level. A whole 'nother level. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 31 2016 02:34:40 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 04:17:53 AM
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Hi kenbikes100,
quote:
So as practitioners of DM, pranayama, and asana, we spend considerable time each day practicing mindfulness.
The beauty of this witnessing our practice is, we become the witness. As Dogboy pointed out, we become the witness of every movement taken in daily life.
quote:
I also see that what I think I see in my cursory look at mindfulness literature may be useful as a supplemental meditation, though it is outside of AYP practices.
We sometimes feel a pull, and it's good to listen. Let the light come in from different corners can be insightful. Re-reading lessons AYP can also be very helpful, as we progress, Yogani's lessons speak to another level inside us.
Mindfulness is not outside AYP, 'mindful living the day', 'be aware of every moment' is the same as 'the witness coming to life'. IMO the use of different words, meaning the same.
Happy practice 
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Edited by - Charliedog on Dec 31 2016 04:21:36 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 04:47:24 AM
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Quote Bodhi Tree,
quote:
If I look at a flower in the backyard, and that flower triggers memories from childhood of similar flowers I used to see in my little league baseball field, and I drift off into those memories, and marvel at how the past is intimately intertwined with the present moment, am I being unmindful? What if I'm looking at a Salvador Dali painting, and his portrayal of DNA and the divine feminine spins me off into deep contemplation about the spiral-like nature of life and how women's beauty is unparalleled? Would that be a sin against mindfulness?
Bodhi this is beautiful said. If we are aware of all this happening inside us at that moment of looking, it's mindfulness or the Witness. Not mindful would be if we don't notice this at all, we are just drifting.
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 07:40:00 AM
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I see in my country many companies who are willingly provide employees mindfulness training. Many people start with yoga and meditation because of this mindfulness training, they discover how they lived on the automatic pilot and get the taste of the journey inside.  
As we start somewhere we will progress http://www.aypsite.org/327.html |
Edited by - Charliedog on Dec 31 2016 07:47:26 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 07:55:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog
I see in my country many companies who are willingly provide employees mindfulness training. Many people start with yoga and meditation because of this mindfulness training
Yes, people want the result (mindfulness), which will hopefully lead them into exploring the methods to achieve it. With a bit of luck, they will fall into meditation. All good stuff! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 11:44:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog
If we are aware of all this happening inside us at that moment of looking, it's mindfulness or the Witness. Not mindful would be if we don't notice this at all, we are just drifting.
But if we are drifting, that's still mindfulness. That's the point, and the joke, I was trying to make.
In truth, everyone is in a mindful state, to varying degrees. Even the most robotic, numbed-out person has a sliver of mindfulness. Or somebody lost in so-called schizophrenia--that's also a state of mind.
The witness isn't really created, because the witness already is. We're just putting a label on it.
Pure bliss consciousness is the source of the mind, and therefore encompasses all other states of mind. You can be absorbed in pure bliss consciousness without really being mindful of the details of the exterior world or the surface levels of the mind. But the dogma of popular mindfulness won't really venture into that deeper territory, and keeps insisting that it's the minute details that need to be focused on.
What I'm saying is that absorption in pure bliss consciousness will be far more effective than trying to be mindful of all the trivial details on the surface. Be centered in That, and then attention to details will happen naturally and without a lot of trivial micro-management and obsession with maintaining a state of "mindfulness". |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 31 2016 11:45:51 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 12:55:37 PM
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Mostly if we start with yoga/meditation we will not out of the blue be in bliss consciousness. To 'achieve' or 'remind' our bliss consciousness we have to be mindful and practice.
With mindfulness I mean practice. Notice that we drifted off in memories for instance and choose to come back to the moment of now is mindfulness training. Also loosing the mantra, notice it and come back to the mantra is mindfulness training, just a word, a label, other terminology. Practice of being aware here and now.
And yes we are always in a state of mind, but not always mindful (as I see it). Be centered in That will happen if we practice and recognize That. For me absorption in pure bliss consciousness took practice of all I said above for a long time. This might be different for you.
My first experiences of Now, the Witness and Oneness and bliss consciousness had impact, it was not a choice, although I know now it is our natural state it was hidden for me for a long time in life.
Today I have my day of trying to explain too much, I just arrived home after trying to explain all kinds of stuff to relations and my parents. .
One of my teachers said once to me, may be one day you will learn to just listen and smile, I will start this in 2017........ |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 1:39:05 PM
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| Well said, Charliedog, well said. |
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sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2016 : 8:10:15 PM
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Good advice from everyone.
Practicing mindfullness without innersilence may only give practioners migraine headches after few minutes.
There is nothing wrong in being aware. But,when something is forced, it becomes painful.
Best to engage in twice daily sitting practices and let the rise of inner silence flavor and flower our life where grace, movement and stillness becomes the pillars of our existence on this earth plane.
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Edited by - sunyata on Dec 31 2016 8:38:19 PM |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2017 : 07:19:55 AM
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| Looking back on this, I think it is better to do DM or ™ than to be concerned about mindullness. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2017 : 10:23:43 AM
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| Hi Ken, IMO we cannot state that a meditation approach is better than another one. DM or TM may the best choice for you and me, but another guy may have smoother and faster results with a minfulness approach. Also, even for the same practitioner things can change during a lifetime, and so do our practices. |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2017 : 11:21:05 PM
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Hi Ken,
Another way to look at your question is by placing it in the context of the types of meditation. There are three general types of meditation:
1. Focused Attention - meditation on a candle, yantra, etc.
2. Mindfulness or Open Awareness - a general monitoring of the daily life;
3. Self-Transcending Meditation - such as DM and TM, which are methods that effortlessly transcend the practice.
The Self-Transcending Meditation allows us to see through the veil of ignorance. Once we start to shift from the identification with a separate person, we start to realize that what we are is the eternal, non-localized awareness. One of the consequences of this is a continuous mindfullness (or awareness), which in time becomes a stabil state that is maintained during sleep, dream, and awake periods. It seems to me that Mindfulness practices take this consequence of self-realization, and promotes it in the hope that it could induce an awakening. A better method is to practice DM and Samyama and Cosmic Samyama.
I hope this helps.
Blanche
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Edited by - Blanche on Feb 17 2017 11:22:46 PM |
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Mykal K
Germany
266 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2017 : 03:34:41 AM
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quote:
A better method is to practice DM and Samyama and Cosmic Samyama.
Why is this better? |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2017 : 7:36:35 PM
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Hi Mykal,
According to Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras, we suffer not because forces outside ourselves, but because our misperception of who we are and what the world is. This misperception makes us look for fulfilment in the outside world. The world is changing continuously, and it cannot provide any stable fulfilment. What we actually look for is in us – the inner silent stillness. This silent stillness in our true nature and it is within us constantly.
Compared with focused-attention and mindfulness, the self-transcending meditation techniques like deep meditation and transcendental meditation direct the attention to the inside and quiet the mind, so we could see beyond the veils of ignorance to our true Self. The practice of DM and TM is supposed to be effortless. Even the meditative technique is left behind; thus, nothing disturbs the mirror of the mind. Only a focused and tranquil mind allows an undistorted perception of the Self.
Samyama and Cosmic Samyama expand the awareness. For example, when practiced as Yogani advices before falling asleep, I find that I easily maintain awareness during sleeping and dreaming. Over time, this increase awareness results in a general mindfulness. For example, it is easy to notice the details of day to day life – it seems to me that these details were there before, they were recorded before this generalized awareness became stable, but I had trouble retrieving them from the memory.
Focused-attention and mindfulness do work, but self-transcending techniques seem to work faster, at least in my experience. Let me know if this makes sense to you.
Best wishes for your practice,
Blanche
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2017 : 8:11:12 PM
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| Makes sense to me! |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2017 : 8:16:36 PM
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| Dogboy |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2017 : 05:47:16 AM
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quote:
The world is changing continuously, and it cannot provide any stable fulfilment. What we actually look for is in us – the inner silent stillness. This silent stillness in our true nature and it is within us constantly.
Compared with focused-attention and mindfulness, the self-transcending meditation techniques like deep meditation and transcendental meditation direct the attention to the inside and quiet the mind, so we could see beyond the veils of ignorance to our true Self.
Hi Blanche, maybe I don't understand your two posts, but I don't agree with that view. To me, this idea of self-trascending sounds like a new separation. I am not looking for that kind of evolution in my life and in my yoga practices - I am trying to connect as much as I can with that continuously changing world. A quiet, silent mind is a pleasant thing, no doubt!, but it can also make you very disfunctional/disconnected in daily life (unless you live a life without family, job, ...). |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2017 : 07:50:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Hi Blanche, maybe I don't understand your two posts, but I don't agree with that view. To me, this idea of self-trascending sounds like a new separation. I am not looking for that kind of evolution in my life and in my yoga practices - I am trying to connect as much as I can with that continuously changing world. A quiet, silent mind is a pleasant thing, no doubt!, but it can also make you very disfunctional/disconnected in daily life (unless you live a life without family, job, ...).
Hi Ecdyonurus,
An increasing sense of separation is not the experience here. It is a gradual falling out of the identifications with the body-mind-person. What we are is beyond words, and any description is limiting. What we are is the unbounded awareness that expresses itself in the world. There is only One here, that is everything - and you are that. You feel connected with everything because you are everything. You function better because your resources are unlimited, your joy is unlimited, everything you focus on opens to your knowledge.
In the end, these are only words - the truth is in the practice, and it does not matter if we agree or disagree. |
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Mindfullness and Meditation?
