|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 02 2016 : 10:12:10 PM
|
This is a an article which I find really sees past a lot of the general misconceptions out there as it pertains to the spiritual journey and specifically enlightenment.
The spiritual journey, from my limited perspective, has been about learning to embrace the pain and discomfort that can come our way in life and no longer (sometimes inadvertently) attempting to run from it no matter how subtle or seemingly undesirable. It has *not* been about becoming someone or something special or attaining any higher states, but rather recognizing that I'm just the same as everyone else, a regular nobody, doing really nothing truly important. The spiritual path has taught me to simply be here and now and to appreciate the things life brings my way which includes all the good, bad and so called ugly. It's been about openly and honestly allowing all thoughts, feelings and emotions to be as they are.
Thanks to an old friend for posting it.
http://upliftconnect.com/reality-of-enlightenment/ |
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2016 : 11:15:27 PM
|
From that article:
"It is not the pursuit of greater and greater states of happiness and bliss that leads to enlightenment, but the yearning for Reality and the rabid dissatisfaction with living anything less than a fully authentic life." – Adyashanti
From the first lesson of AYP:
"Why bother with all this? To be honest, it is the greatest high we can have. The pleasure is beyond anything on earth. Really. The essence of divine experience is unending devastating bliss and an unshakable silent peace. It seems contradictory, doesn't it? That's how it is. But don't take my word for it. Try some of these methods and see for yourself. It's all waiting in you. Take a few baby steps, and soon you can be opening by leaps and bounds. That is assuming you are ready, and choose each day to go for more." – Yogani
Hmmmmmm...I think I'll follow Yogani's trajectory, which leads to ever-unfolding layers of bliss and happiness. 
What Adyashanti fails to realize is that Reality is Pure Bliss Consciousness. To be addicted to bliss is to be addicted to reality. That is the essence of bhakti.
So, we keep going for more. We're not trying to be in some super-detached state which shuns bliss. We're amplifying the ecstatic bliss and sustaining the vibration to its maximum capacity, with self-pacing applied. That is the AYP game, not the Adyashanti game.
But, to each his own. Everyone is free to play the game in their own style, so I respect the differences. At the same time, it should be clearly understood the we are operating as a collective bliss factory here. Refining the mantra, repeating the sutras, tracing the spinal nerve, stretching into asanas, inquiring into Self, doing karma yoga...all these things lead to more stillness in action, ecstatic bliss, and an outpouring of divine love.
AYP is a place for rock-solid authenticity. And it don't stop. And it don't quit. 24/7/365... |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Oct 02 2016 11:20:01 PM |
 |
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 02:16:46 AM
|
You know what I love about AYP? - You don't have to do anything beyond the prescribed twice daily practices. You eventually come to these realizations on your own - when you are ripe.
Sey  |
|
|
|
parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 11:53:53 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem
The spiritual journey, from my limited perspective, has been about learning to embrace the pain and discomfort that can come our way........ It's been about openly and honestly allowing all thoughts, feelings and emotions to be as they are.
Yes.
As a concept, it's quite simple. But pragmatically .... to go deeper and deeper .... is to be forever going deeper into What You Are. Which is generally not as easy as it sounds. At first it's a comparatively lonely dance with steps that aren't that easy to learn. And there are a seeming infinity of bypass techniques, if we choose to embrace some manner of bypass. Such tactical maneuvers on the spiritual path may keep us busy with distractions that postpone the inevitable for a very long time.
However, eventually we must remember the art of abiding nowhere in particular. We must allow and encourage our body being to remember what that feels like. Sometimes it doesn't feel too good at all. But we find the means to rise above that bad feeling through going deeper into it. We then relearn how to abide only in the authentic Self. We can't expect to KNOW what we are, to authentically BE what we are, unless we are completely willing to LOVE all of what we are .... and cease avoiding that which resonates as unpleasant or unattractive. Whether that appears as internal or external to the body being.
Coming to terms with my avoidance tactics and learning to dance with what's previously been swept under the carpet as some negative experience ... is a major step on the path for me. While I do think the majority of spiritual progress has involved pain or discomfort (with a corresponding negative charge), I now find it necessary to deal with my tendency toward an addictive personality and a repressed need to belong. While I've done fairly well as a loner, it's now become necessary to deal with a tendency to go overboard into addiction with some habit, drug, attitude or interest. Contributing as a member of a social group may be necessary in minimizing my positively charged addictions. It's a most interesting journey which apparently expands forever outward and deeper inward.
For me, reality is only bliss when I'm allowing myself to be authentic. The inability to be what I am is now seen to be an illusion that is indulged at the expense of being spiritually well adjusted, and therefore content with my life.
Thank you for your thoughts
Love
parvati |
|
|
|
sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 1:05:35 PM
|
To me, it's about lots of laughter. And practicing AYP, makes me Laugh and Love more. So I introduce AYP to all who are interested.
After all it's no fun laughing by yourself- the more the merrier.
Here's a joke -
Someone sent the Buddha a gift box tied with a ribbon. Buddha opened it to find it empty. "Aha!", he said, "Just what I wanted. Nothing!" |
Edited by - sunyata on Oct 03 2016 1:13:11 PM |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 10:08:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
From that article:
"It is not the pursuit of greater and greater states of happiness and bliss that leads to enlightenment, but the yearning for Reality and the rabid dissatisfaction with living anything less than a fully authentic life." – Adyashanti
From the first lesson of AYP:
"Why bother with all this? To be honest, it is the greatest high we can have. The pleasure is beyond anything on earth. Really. The essence of divine experience is unending devastating bliss and an unshakable silent peace. It seems contradictory, doesn't it? That's how it is. But don't take my word for it. Try some of these methods and see for yourself. It's all waiting in you. Take a few baby steps, and soon you can be opening by leaps and bounds. That is assuming you are ready, and choose each day to go for more." – Yogani
Hmmmmmm...I think I'll follow Yogani's trajectory, which leads to ever-unfolding layers of bliss and happiness.
quote:
What Adyashanti fails to realize is that Reality is Pure Bliss Consciousness. To be addicted to bliss is to be addicted to reality. That is the essence of bhakti.
How do you know what Adyashanti realizes or not? I certainly don't but only ask, because some spiritual seekers seem quick to dismiss teachers who don't advocate for the highs of bliss, it'a an interesting debate. Instead of a drug like blissful or ecstatic high, a more balanced approach in my opinion would be a gentle pervading and general contentedness. Isn't that enough? Both are certainly possible though, that is for sure.
In my experience, addiction in general, including bliss eventually falls away, but not for the idea of some austerity measure to become detached or something, there's just no desire to go there anymore and it (the letting go of it) just happened on its own and especially after understanding that for every high there is a low even if unapparent until much later on.
Experiencing everything that arises, without the filter became more compelling with the recognition that pain brought learning and highs brought enjoyment. I experience each as it occurs naturally, no need to push on the gas pedal to get more power, it just moves of its own accord. I indulged a lot in bliss and ecstasy for many years, it was an amazing exploration of a new found energy in life but the mechanisms of that dynamic became more apparent over time. Bliss and ecstasy are still readily available, just by bringing focus to certain parts of the energy body, it can be experienced, once in a while if I consciously indulge, and do so knowing fully the price for it.
quote:
So, we keep going for more. We're not trying to be in some super-detached state which shuns bliss. We're amplifying the ecstatic bliss and sustaining the vibration to its maximum capacity, with self-pacing applied. That is the AYP game, not the Adyashanti game.
But, to each his own. Everyone is free to play the game in their own style, so I respect the differences. At the same time, it should be clearly understood the we are operating as a collective bliss factory here. Refining the mantra, repeating the sutras, tracing the spinal nerve, stretching into asanas, inquiring into Self, doing karma yoga...all these things lead to more stillness in action, ecstatic bliss, and an outpouring of divine love.
AYP is a place for rock-solid authenticity. And it don't stop. And it don't quit. 24/7/365...
It seemed to me from reading the article that Adya was advocating for authenticity as well, I didn't pick up him emphasizing being detached? |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 10:14:18 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by parvati9
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem
The spiritual journey, from my limited perspective, has been about learning to embrace the pain and discomfort that can come our way........ It's been about openly and honestly allowing all thoughts, feelings and emotions to be as they are.
Yes.
As a concept, it's quite simple. But pragmatically .... to go deeper and deeper .... is to be forever going deeper into What You Are. Which is generally not as easy as it sounds. At first it's a comparatively lonely dance with steps that aren't that easy to learn. And there are a seeming infinity of bypass techniques, if we choose to embrace some manner of bypass. Such tactical maneuvers on the spiritual path may keep us busy with distractions that postpone the inevitable for a very long time.
However, eventually we must remember the art of abiding nowhere in particular. We must allow and encourage our body being to remember what that feels like. Sometimes it doesn't feel too good at all. But we find the means to rise above that bad feeling through going deeper into it. We then relearn how to abide only in the authentic Self. We can't expect to KNOW what we are, to authentically BE what we are, unless we are completely willing to LOVE all of what we are .... and cease avoiding that which resonates as unpleasant or unattractive. Whether that appears as internal or external to the body being.
Coming to terms with my avoidance tactics and learning to dance with what's previously been swept under the carpet as some negative experience ... is a major step on the path for me. While I do think the majority of spiritual progress has involved pain or discomfort (with a corresponding negative charge), I now find it necessary to deal with my tendency toward an addictive personality and a repressed need to belong. While I've done fairly well as a loner, it's now become necessary to deal with a tendency to go overboard into addiction with some habit, drug, attitude or interest. Contributing as a member of a social group may be necessary in minimizing my positively charged addictions. It's a most interesting journey which apparently expands forever outward and deeper inward.
For me, reality is only bliss when I'm allowing myself to be authentic. The inability to be what I am is now seen to be an illusion that is indulged at the expense of being spiritually well adjusted, and therefore content with my life.
Thank you for your thoughts
Love
parvati
Beautifully written parvati, I recognize a lot of my life in your words, thanks for sharing your observations. |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 11:01:29 PM
|
Once again, just to be crystal clear, AYP's objective is to create a world in which an outpouring of divine love is the status quo. So long as the bastions of war, poverty, disease, and delusion remain, our collective task will be incomplete. Even when those obstructions become non-existent, there will still be room for more bliss.
It's important to realize that ecstatic bliss is exactly proportional to the degree to which it can be given away. It's not like Gollum coveting the magic ring as his private possession. Rather, it's a matter of cultivating a skill set for serving a higher purpose, thereby making the world more utopian and heavenly. It is a progressive trend, not a stagnant or regressive one.
Adyashanti will have an opportunity to experience a more authentic level of awakening as AYP spreads, and he can choose to jump on the bandwagon, or not. Freedom to choose is totally respected, and AYP is not an all-or-nothing package anyway. He can pick and choose from the baseline according to his needs. So he is very lucky to be alive as this open-source knowledge trickles into the mainstream, because he can lend a helping hand and contribute to the global enlightenment project, which is innovative and creative on multiple levels. We are on the precipice of greatness.  |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 12:45:04 AM
|
P.S. Here's another quote from the first lesson of AYP: "So if you are not wanting to become divinely inspired, divinely addicted, better stay away."
Welcome to the asylum for bliss addicts.  |
|
|
|
Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 04:10:23 AM
|
Thank you Anthem for sharing your wise words, I've read some books from Adyashanti and he was for sure important to me, especially his writings about his own path, they gave me many insights in myself.
I can not help to see that all great teachers say the same, using different words that fits there uniqueness. It all depends on our own way of perceiving.
|
Edited by - Charliedog on Oct 04 2016 04:11:04 AM |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 11:32:44 AM
|
Hi Anthem:
I have much respect for Adyashanti, Tolle and the great traditional Advaita teachers. They are referred to in the later AYP lessons on self-inquiry, and their books are on the AYP extended booklist. So I have no issue with bringing them up.
Regarding teachings, it is a matter of timing in relation to each practitioner, and we have discussed this on several occasions in the past. Passive awareness techniques (or whatever one may wish to call them) are great when there is abiding inner silence (witness) established to enable their effective functioning. Before then, we have what is referred to in the AYP lessons as "non-relational self-inquiry," meaning inquiry in the mind rather than released in still awareness ("relational" in stillness - samyama effect). This is a very important distinction.
While Adyashanti and others like him provide much inspiration coming from their awakened condition, they are not strong on providing the essential prerequisites - meditation and other yogic techniques. In many cases, they are like math teachers introducing calculus to pre-schoolers who have not learned to add or subtract yet. So it is not a matter of the validity of what they teach. Only a matter of sequence and timing.
In AYP we introduce the concept of "ripeness" later in the lessons, which is when abiding inner silence has reached a point where self-inquiry, Advaita and related teachings like Adyashanti provides can gain some traction in stillness. And, as we know, when fruit is ripe it will fall off the tree quite naturally. That is why I sometimes respectfully refer to stand-alone Advaita-style teachers as "fruit pickers."
So, Anthem, no doubt you can help pick some fruit around here by referencing teachers like Adyashanti, Tolle (feel the pain!), and others. There are advanced practitioners here who can use it and it can be an inspiration for others, and I welcome it.
But do keep in mind that we have plenty of early stage yoga practitioners around here as well, and encouraging them to rely solely on teachings of this type is not going to be very helpful because their fruit (inner silence) is not ripe enough yet to support that level of inquiry and realization. The risk in focusing exclusively on such methods of inquiry prematurely is that they will be primarily mind games which can lead to energetic and psychological difficulties, and none of us want that.
Regarding bliss, ecstasy, etc., these are wonderful energetic side effects on the way to clear awareness and what we call living as "stillness in action" and the rise of service leading to unity, which is non-duality lived in duality. The energetic symptoms and experiences are signs of purification and opening, with the symptoms themselves not being the primary objective in AYP. The cultivation of abiding inner silence is. Everything emanates from that, including the effective application of teachings from Adyashanti and others like him.
It is always good to keep things in perspective in relation to whom we are addressing. One size does not fit all. Just because you have years of yoga experience that led you to this relatively ripe condition does not mean that everyone else is going to be there. So what do they need? That is the question. It is why I always suggest avid seekers to start at the beginning of the lessons (with deep meditation) rather than at the end (with self-inquiry). It is okay to peek ahead, but better not to attempt to fly solo until the wings are developed enough to do so. It is common sense. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 1:14:56 PM
|
| Yogani- |
|
|
|
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 1:18:42 PM
|
the journey within leads to the path without
a void is formed in the heart waiting to be filled
choose the substance to be poured
from the vessel of maya into the eternal soul
desire from a whim or a whim of desire
all played out in the theatre of the mind .
|
|
|
|
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 1:25:55 PM
|
| nusradin the sufi is looking for his key a passer by asks him what he is looking for, nusradin replies he has lost his key, and the passer by asks him where he thinks he has lost it, nusradin replys at my house ,the passer asks why hes looking for it outside on the street ,nusradin replies theres more light out here. |
|
|
|
parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2016 : 10:51:30 AM
|
Nice lesson Kumar.
Observations possibly related to the subject:
1)Undoubtedly, imo, spiritual ripeness is the cumulative result of an ongoing process spanning many lifetimes. From that point of view, consideration of past life progress is wise.
2)Earnestness of the seeker needs to be figured into the equation as perhaps the all important factor (at least according to Ramana). So there is past life experience and present life earnestness - two factors that are frequently overlooked in discussions regarding effective means of reaching one's spiritual goal.
love
parvati
edit/brevity |
Edited by - parvati9 on Oct 05 2016 8:00:12 PM |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2016 : 11:16:06 PM
|
Hi Yogani,
I understand your concerns but view things differently perhaps. I have only two messages to express to people, often said in different ways and the first is, accept what is/ don't resist what arises and the second: be present in the here and now to the best of your ability. The aim of these are to achieve balance or stillness.
I have been coaching people for 25 years and am yet to come across someone who isn't able to apply aspects or variations of these to enhance the quality of their lives in some way. Most of the people I coach also aren't actively engaged in conscious spiritual practices of any kind, yet when they directly experience the benefits of these when applied in their lives, it becomes something they can use their life long. From 5 year olds to 75 year olds, anyone from my observations, can find greater balance with these things in mind and applied into their mental, physical and emotional arisings.
If someone wants to take greater strides on their path, I have never said at anytime that there aren't a wide variety of practices that can be applied. Meditation is certainly one I find to be among the most effective and I have said this many times to both you and others in my 1000 plus posts on this forum. As you know I practiced meditation for many years. So please be reassured and I hope this puts your concerns to rest once and for all.
I would also never suggest someone solely rely on anything I say or anyone else says for that matter. I trust that the earnest seeker will be guided by life (the divine flow in your words) to find their way to what they need most for their continued learning and spiritual growth.
I am happy to hear you say that bliss and ecstasy are by products of purification and not the primary focus of AYP any longer, because the earlier lessons in particular do not read that way. I hope that you will find the time to write a lesson at some point that clarifies this all too important point.
Everything that goes up must go down, it's just a matter of when, so focussing and cultivating bliss and ecstasy for unnaturally long periods of time will eventually exact a price in suffering. When they arise naturally though, then we are all set and life can flow in service to others as you point out.
|
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2016 : 01:06:37 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem
Everything that goes up must go down, it's just a matter of when, so focussing and cultivating bliss and ecstasy for unnaturally long periods of time will eventually exact a price in suffering. When they arise naturally though, then we are all set and life can flow in service to others as you point out.
Very true. That's why self-pacing is so emphasized in AYP, so our bhakti doesn't burn us out in pursuit of the gold. I've had my share of overload, and I've certainly learned that less is often more, so I relate to your sentiments. |
|
|
|
Christi
United Kingdom
4363 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2016 : 12:45:52 PM
|
Hi Anthem,
It is good to hear that you are finding some balance and stillness with your practice. I remember a while back, you were saying that you were finding it difficult to engage in spiritual practices. I hope that has settled down now.
quote:
I am happy to hear you say that bliss and ecstasy are by products of purification and not the primary focus of AYP any longer, because the earlier lessons in particular do not read that way. I hope that you will find the time to write a lesson at some point that clarifies this all too important point.
The early lessons do read a lot as if the primary goal of the spiritual life is the cultivation of bliss and ecstasy. That does change though, as the lessons progress. I believe the first mention of the stages beyond bliss and ecstasy, come in lesson 35 with a description of unity:
"Third, as our attention comes to reside naturally in the omnipresent, undulating blissful silence in all things, we become that ever-present harmony. We find our own self to be the essence of all things. This is the experience of unity, union, enlightenment. The world does not disappear. It becomes transparent. Boundaries become like veils, thinly covering the essence of life, which we have come to know as an expression of our own nature. Can we still act in the world? Yes, but our motives are different than before when we could only see ourself as separate. We now act in the interest of a broader self. In doing so, we may seem to become selfless. The truth is that we always are acting for our own self-interest. But our self has become universal, so our interest is for the whole of humanity, and for the whole of life." [Yogani]
This is also covered in lesson 85.
Unity is a deepening experience of the rise of ecstatic bliss, as is divine love. This is touched upon in lesson 204:
"Loving service to others - a conscious practice, and a natural result of the increasing outward flow of divine love resulting from the purification and opening of the nervous system produced by advanced yoga practices. This is our natural state of being - an endless overflowing of ecstatic bliss and divine love. Nothing on this earth, or beyond, is more real or more powerful than this great truth that is inherent in every one of us. The reality of divine love is the ultimate truth in us. As we become advanced in yoga, this becomes crystal clear. For some it is known right from the very first sitting in deep meditation." [Yogani]
Although divine love is an outcome of the experience of ecstatic bliss and unity, it also deepens, as the process of the production of amrita in the head becomes stronger. This is covered in lesson 274:
"By the way, neurobiologically speaking, the jivan mukti/Christ stage corresponds with the union of inner silence and ecstatic conductivity evolving up from everywhere in the body, reaching maturity in the head, and then migrating back down into the heart where the spiritual rebirth occurs. So the heart is where we will end up with all this. The heart is the final home of our enlightenment in this body, with the neurobiology of the whole body supporting that. There is much to do in setting the stage for this final outcome, and that is what AYP is about." [Yogani]
So even though the early lessons focus on the cultivation of ecstasy (purity of the body) and bliss (purity of the mind), the later lessons do focus on the cultivation of unity, divine love, stillness in action and the clarity of perception. This does not mean that ecstasy and bliss will go away. Seeing things as they are, is profoundly blissful and joyful. Living life in true service, could not be described as anything other than ecstatic.
It is all there in the lessons if you look for it. Hidden in plain sight, as they say!
Best wishes on your path.
Christi |
|
|
|
sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2016 : 1:33:03 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
This does not mean that ecstasy and bliss will go away. Seeing things as they are, is profoundly blissful and joyful. Living life in true service, could not be described as anything other than ecstatic.
Amen |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2016 : 9:45:01 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Anthem,
It is good to hear that you are finding some balance and stillness with your practice. I remember a while back, you were saying that you were finding it difficult to engage in spiritual practices. I hope that has settled down now.
Hi Christi,
Yes that was back in 2011, there has been stability and groundedness a long while now. I don't actively engage in spiritual practices other than saying yes/ not resisting what arises, being here and now is a by product of that non resistance.
quote:
The early lessons do read a lot as if the primary goal of the spiritual life is the cultivation of bliss and ecstasy. That does change though, as the lessons progress. I believe the first mention of the stages beyond bliss and ecstasy, come in lesson 35 with a description of unity:
quote:
So even though the early lessons focus on the cultivation of ecstasy (purity of the body) and bliss (purity of the mind), the later lessons do focus on the cultivation of unity, divine love, stillness in action and the clarity of perception. This does not mean that ecstasy and bliss will go away. Seeing things as they are, is profoundly blissful and joyful. Living life in true service, could not be described as anything other than ecstatic.
It is all there in the lessons if you look for it. Hidden in plain sight, as they say!
Best wishes on your path.
Christi
I think a critical clarification like this should be highlighted on its own and not "hidden in plain sight". Aiming at bliss and ecstasy is not a balanced approach from my perspective. Think of it this way, if you want bliss and ecstasy, what by definition do you not want? Their opposites, (fear, anger etc.). When we don't want something, by the very nature of not wanting or saying no to something, as a result we resist it. Where does that resistance lead? Well long term suffering of course, and I think we all agree that nobody wants that.
|
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2016 : 10:59:24 PM
|
I've had blissful fear, and certainly ecstatic rage. If you don't think rage and ecstasy can mix, just watch Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech. That's a paradox right there. He called his movement of non-violent resistance "a marvelous new militancy". Sometimes resistance is needed.
"Resist nothing" is not a working strategy. Sometimes we need to resist, and sometimes not. Same with letting go. "Let go of everything" is not realistic. Sometimes we need to hold onto things in life. It just depends on the scenario. But completely passive non-resistance is a recipe for apathy, atrophy, and nihilism.  That's why the optimal paradox is called active surrender in AYP. Hold on and let go. Resist and relax.
You can infuse your fear and anger with bliss. It's a good concoction. A Molotov bliss cocktail. |
|
|
|
Christi
United Kingdom
4363 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2016 : 10:20:43 AM
|
Hi Anthem,
quote:
Aiming at bliss and ecstasy is not a balanced approach from my perspective. Think of it this way, if you want bliss and ecstasy, what by definition do you not want? Their opposites, (fear, anger etc.). When we don't want something, by the very nature of not wanting or saying no to something, as a result we resist it. Where does that resistance lead? Well long term suffering of course, and I think we all agree that nobody wants that.
When I said that it was "hidden in plain sight", that was a bit tongue-in-cheek. It is there from lesson 35 onwards, which is pretty early in the lessons, and then comes up regularly again throughout the lessons. In fact it is there from the beginning, in lessons 10 and 11, where Yogani talks about the aim of yoga being a divine union between our inner nature and our outer nature.
But I would agree that in many of the earlier lessons, the focus is on the cultivation of ecstasy and bliss, with the higher stages of the path only being mentioned occasionally. This is for a reason. When people begin spiritual practices, many would not understand the meaning of things like "unity" or "stillness in action", or "divine love", let alone be able to cultivate them. So we begin by cultivating ecstasy through pranayama and bliss through meditation, things that are understandable.
Then when we engage in practices, we begin to actually experience them for ourselves and we know what they are through that direct experience. The higher stages of the path, come about automatically through the merging of ecstasy and bliss. So there is actually little need to discuss the higher stages of the path, as they are a natural outcome of the initial stages. Only a few pointers here and there are necessary. In fact, in the later lessons, there are more than just a few pointers towards the higher stages. It is all described in great detail.
As Bodhi has pointed out, bliss and ecstasy are not the opposites of lower emotional states such as anger and fear. Ecstasy arises in the body as the process of purification of the energy channels advances, but it does not preclude the arising of any emotion. So ecstasy can be experienced at the same time as any possible emotion is being experienced. That may sound strange, but it is the way it is.
The same thing happens with bliss. Bliss is what arises when we begin to no longer identify with the ups and downs of the mind such as happiness and sorrow. That does not mean that thoughts no longer exist or emotions no longer exist for someone who is experiencing bliss. It means that we are no longer caught up in the process of identification with the phenomenal world. So bliss can also be experienced, along with any possible emotion, or any possible thought. We can experience fear, or pain, or anger and still be fundamentally established in a place of bliss. We are free to feel whatever we feel, but freedom becomes our fundamental nature. And the direct experience of freedom, is blissful.
So the cultivation of ecstatic bliss, through the practice of yoga, is not a running away from something, or an attempt to escape from, or get rid of some experience. It is a movement beyond all experiences, which is the beginning of the divine life.
In AYP practice, there isn't a point where we abandon practices all together. If we do this, then we will tend to eventually stagnate and will no longer make any progress on the path. To progress further, we would then need to take up practices again, but by that point, a lot of time could have been wasted.
There is a kind of flywheel effect, where past practices, if done for a long time, will build up a momentum, and can carry us forwards for a while, even if we stop all spiritual practices. When this flywheel effect is operating, and if we have developed a reasonable degree of witness already, we can have the feeling that all we need to do is to remain present, or to be present with no resistance to what is arising, and so on, maintaining a kind of passive awareness, or mindfullness, or process of self-inquiry such as non-resistance, throughout the day. But even this effect will only last for a while, and eventually will lose it's momentum.
It is basically getting the cart in front of the horse. It is spiritual practices, such as pranayama and meditation, which lead us to be able to engage in self-inquiry, and not the other way round. In other words, it is not only being here and now that is the by-product of non-resistance, but non-resistance is the by product of the direct cultivation of inner silence (samadhi). And it is the merging of that inner silence with ecstasy, which leads to divine love, unity and the fruits of the practice of yoga.
Rather than going through the process of flip-flopping, between spending years engaging in sitting practices followed by years engaging only in self-inquiry, which can become a cycle which spans decades, it is far better to maintain a constant practice, which includes regular daily sitting practices (and asana if desired), with self-inquiry going on at times during the day.
This will lead to far more rapid progress on the path over the long term.
Christi
|
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2016 : 11:58:26 AM
|
The flywheel effect! Yes.  |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2016 : 1:16:09 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Anthem,
As Bodhi has pointed out, bliss and ecstasy are not the opposites of lower emotional states such as anger and fear. Ecstasy arises in the body as the process of purification of the energy channels advances, but it does not preclude the arising of any emotion. So ecstasy can be experienced at the same time as any possible emotion is being experienced. That may sound strange, but it is the way it is.
The same thing happens with bliss. Bliss is what arises when we begin to no longer identify with the ups and downs of the mind such as happiness and sorrow. That does not mean that thoughts no longer exist or emotions no longer exist for someone who is experiencing bliss. It means that we are no longer caught up in the process of identification with the phenomenal world. So bliss can also be experienced, along with any possible emotion, or any possible thought. We can experience fear, or pain, or anger and still be fundamentally established in a place of bliss. We are free to feel whatever we feel, but freedom becomes our fundamental nature. And the direct experience of freedom, is blissful.
All good Christi, we see some things differently. I see bliss and ecstasy as energy experiences on the "positive" spectrum of duality. I used anger and fear, not so much as being specific opposites but to give examples of the so called "negative" spectrum. Yes I agree things can arise concurrently. I see intense bliss being more aligned with newly found freedom and purification but that it evolves over time into a gentle general contentedness.
quote:
There is a kind of flywheel effect, where past practices, if done for a long time, will build up a momentum, and can carry us forwards for a while, even if we stop all spiritual practices. When this flywheel effect is operating, and if we have developed a reasonable degree of witness already, we can have the feeling that all we need to do is to remain present, or to be present with no resistance to what is arising, and so on, maintaining a kind of passive awareness, or mindfullness, or process of self-inquiry such as non-resistance, throughout the day. But even this effect will only last for a while, and eventually will lose it's momentum.
Is this your personal experience Christi or are you speaking from general theory?
quote:
Rather than going through the process of flip-flopping, between spending years engaging in sitting practices followed by years engaging only in self-inquiry, which can become a cycle which spans decades, it is far better to maintain a constant practice, which includes regular daily sitting practices (and asana if desired), with self-inquiry going on at times during the day.
This will lead to far more rapid progress on the path over the long term.
Maybe it works for you like this Christi and that's great. I'm not arguing for any particular recipe in case you are getting that impression. With non-resistance, it is a natural process, as resistance enters awareness, it let's go on its own accord. I understand it's not for everyone, though I think most can benefit from the message to accept what already is happening since resistance only makes things harder. To each their own on their chosen path, best of luck to you.
|
|
|
|
Christi
United Kingdom
4363 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2016 : 5:20:55 PM
|
Hi Anthem,
quote:
Is this your personal experience Christi or are you speaking from general theory?
In terms of noticing the flywheel effect, this is my own experience. Over the years I have watched others go through the cycle of switching between sitting practices and using self-inquiry as a stand alone practice.
Certainly accepting things the way they are, is a valid spiritual practice in it's own right and a natural evolution of our being, as things progress on the path, especially once we reach the stage of dispassion. What I am saying is that if someone decides to make it their only practice, then it could be a slow evolution from there on, until they decide to take up pranayama and meditation again.
And yes, bliss is an ever evolving experience of reality rather than a static state. It evolves in intensity, but also changes in form, especially once divine love and unity come into play. One day we will have more words to describe these things, than we do now, as they become more a part of our common experience. So one day we will have words for things like "the bliss of freedom", or "the bliss of unity", or the "bliss of divine love". There is almost always an initial and powerful sense of blissful rapture, that arises with the first glimpses of freedom, as you mention. But for this initial rapture to deepen into the higher forms of ananda, requires ongoing practices of a more serious nature than passive awareness or acceptance of things as they are. Even beyond the initial experiences of bliss that arise once we begin to taste freedom, there are deep-rooted mental formations which have to be purified, before the higher stages of the path can be reached. It is pranayama, meditation and samyama which clear out these deep-rooted mental formations (samskaras).
Everyone has to choose their own path of course and there is no "right way" for everyone. I can only let you know what my own experience has been.
Christi |
|
|
|
sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2016 : 5:29:20 PM
|
Ahhh...yes! Bliss of divine love.
It never stops- it's soft but powerful.
Accepting what is scrumptious when bathing in the bliss of divine love. There is always room for more no matter how evolved a being may be. |
Edited by - sunyata on Oct 09 2016 5:30:17 PM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Great article on enlightenment by Adyashanti
