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kailash
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 12:17:23 AM
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I already posted this on the AYP plus forum, but i figured I may get some more views and responses on the public forum
I have been working on kechari for about 4 months now. in the beginning, my goal was to attain it with purely talavya kriya as I had read Lahiri's thoughts on the subject. However, after 60 days of intensive efforts (average 15 minutes of talavya every day) I realized it was not going to be enough. However, looking back on it, I was usually skipping the stretching the tongue down and forwards bit, as licking my lips always chaps them, that could be why my progress was sub optimal.
After 60 days of talavya I still could not reach level 1 kechari (touching the soft palate) after some further reading, I decided to make the leap into snipping. I have a doctor in the family so he helped me out, My goal was to do it all in one go, the first time we did it, we had no good tools, only some old dull cuticle snippers (at the time we didn't have access to his clinic). They were so dull that it was more tearing then snipping. After some days recover, I bought some revlon cuticle snippers and we went for it. He went all out this time. Again, we realized we didnt have the right tools for the job, the snippers are great for snipping over extended periods of time, but certainly arent the best suited for surgical operations.
His primary concern was going just far enough to snip the frenum, without cutting into the tongue. He had some concern that the blood vessels there could cause some trouble if cut into. After that session, it took a few days to recover, and for the first time i could enter kechari level 1, touching the soft palate. However, to my dissapointment I was still far from stage 2. I was very busy working for a month, and didnt have enough time to stretch it, so it healed and scar tissue formed.
the third attempt, I had another friend help me out, as the doctor was no longer present. We quickly realized that it was nearly impossible to snip anything, as the frenum was now much thicker then before. After 3-5 attempts at snipping, we opted for using a small razor. This worked much better, and we were able to slowly and carefully cut the tendon. However, most of this session was simply cutting away tissue that had regrown, and maybe a little bit more. after a few weeks or so of healing that takes me to where i am now.
I am a little stuck right now and looking for advice on a couple of different points
1. even with much less frenum, I still cant do kechari 2 at all, with my fingers i still cant reach the uvula. I am starting to think that my tongue is naturally shorter, and it may need to be stretched, in addition to the frenum being removed.
Has anyone made much progress with stretching the tongue via milking/pulling/tugging? Have they seen measurable progress? I have heard some yogis have reaaally long tongues, I am curious how much length the tongue can attain, and how long it takes.
2. has anyone actually snipped away ALL the frenum? It seems the common wisdom here is that ALL you need to do is remove the frenum, so I am hoping I can still make some gains via snipping. But the problem is, I am getting close to what appears to be some larger blood vessels. Does anyone have some experiential knowledge on snipping that last 5-20%? It is very difficult to tell how much frenum is remaining. I feel like people should be speaking about this more, but having read all the posts concerning kechari and its attainment, its rare that anyone brings up this difficulty, People have said you dont need to snip it 100%. but, as I said before, even with using my fingers I cannot even touch the uvula.
It would be much easier if i could cut the remaining frenum away all the way until i just nick the tongue muscle. But I dont know if there are going to be some large vessels that break and start bleeding severely, so I am a little stuck right now.
http://imgur.com/a/cvjuJ
I have some pictures as well, in 1 you can see some of the vessels that concern me.
from scoping the pictures, what are your opinions on how much remaining frenum I have?
one thing to note, now when I make a kechari attempt, I notice that the base of my tongue is pulled along with the tongue a bit. It is normally sitting at the base of my mouth. It is difficult to see with the poor lighting. The picture is the kechari attempt post snipping, (not the talavya stretch post snipping) if you look closely you can see a fleshy bit that comes up in the center, being pulled by the tongue. That is the remnant of the base of the frenum, I imagine if the frenum was 100% snipped it wouldnt be pulled at all. I am guessing it could still be acting as a limiting factor in stopping the tongue reaching up into the nasal cavity... what do you guys think? |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 04:39:34 AM
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Dear Kailash,
What I think is that you are determined to achieve Kechari stage 2 and beyond. The question is - to what purpose? What do you hope to achieve - apart from being able to stick your tongue up your nasal pharynx? What are your practices right now? I fear that after so much effort, you may find yourself sorely disappointed. There is a whole framework of practices that Kechari is only a part of and ALL can be achieved without kechari. I have not read your thread on AYP Plus, so pls ignore my input if you are already an advanced practitioner looking to add kechari.
my humble opinion
Sey 
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kailash
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 3:44:12 PM
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Thanks for the input Sey
I know it sounds like I am really pushing hard to get kechari, but relative to the rest of my practices it is not much. I have been extensively cultivating deep meditation for some time, putting into use various mudras and bandhas. My pranayam has not been as on point as I would like, but i have been doing pranayam for some time as well. I am getting to a stage where I feel kechari would be a nice addition to my practices, following the advice of some old writings of Sivananda. |
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kailash
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2016 : 9:09:34 PM
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Hmm, I am surprised more forum members are not chiming in yet. I thought that this would be a rather common problem. As far as reaching the end of the frenum and having difficulty moving forward, while also not having kechari stage two
Has anyone on the forum NEEDED to stretch the tongue in order to attain stage 2 kechari?
At this point, I am thinking that I need to focus on stretching the tongue muscle daily. I think im getting some progress on that front.
anyone think if I already snipped most of the frenum, but still cant enter stage 2 (using good form with fingers and everything) that I will be able to eventually reaching it purely through getting more tongue length via stretching? |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2016 : 06:28:38 AM
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I would think twice before snipping anymore; while it looks from the picture you possibly could, there is a strong possibility of things going awry (infection for instance). As you noted, your tongue looks on the small side, so even if you were able to snip more safely, you may still come up short. Stretching may be your best and safest approach right now, although I have doubts whether a tongue can truly be stretched and remain so. You can try to touch it's tip to your nostrils or extend it outward as far as it will go, over and over. No harm in that.
I was able to reach k #2 in short time, but I attribute it to having a subtle tongue and no uvula (removed turning a deviated septum operation many years ago). While it is certainly a "cool yoga trick", it is equivalent energy-wise to k #1, simply curling the tongue back against the roof of your mouth. I believe Sey was suggesting inquiring why k#2 was so very important and whether you may be too attached to obtaining the practice. You certainly aren't failing if you never achieve the practice. |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2016 : 09:53:00 AM
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Hi kailash,
You're very dedicated to practice and your enthousiasm is wonderful!
At the same time, what may help you even more than achieving kechari 2 at this stage could well be something very different than you imagine.
How long have you been practicing meditation for? Are you familiar with samyama or karma yoga?
Taking up practices gradually, one step at the time and cultivating patience along with dedication to helping those around you before adding up new techniques is a lovely practice in itself.
If you achieve kechari 2, there will still always be another technique / asana etc to achieve. Remember these are just tools, not necessarily the goal of practice. What if success of practice is better measured in terms of contentment, ability to let go, surrender and reaching out than in achievement of any yogic technique? That said, nothing prevents you to push through if you so wish and see for yourself what this brings. 
Wishing you well and looking forward to read how your practices evolve 
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delta33
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2016 : 01:56:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kailash
Hmm, I am surprised more forum members are not chiming in yet... has anyone on the forum NEEDED to stretch the tongue in order to attain stage 2 kechari?
i used to point my tongue on the roof of my mouth as far back as i could make it go, then push my tongue backwards with my index finger, centered just above the frenum, stretching it. did some snipping as well.. looks like i shared some of those experiences on aypsite forums here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4690#50630
for awhile it didn't seem like much progress, then one day i tore the frenum, a bit of blood and pain, and up it went |
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rakesh187
India
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2016 : 05:15:50 AM
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@ SeySorciere
There are many advantages of Talabhya and khechari which cannot be ignored.
@kailash
I think you are little too impatient for this task. It would take some month for some people to achieve khechari or even a year or two. Expecting it to happen within a month or two is always not the case. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2016 : 12:29:33 PM
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Hi Kailash,
Are you able to enter kechari stage 1.5 yet, with the tongue pushing up on the soft pallet at the top of the back of the mouth activating the secret spot through the soft pallet?
If you are not, then that would be the next stage to aim for, and would be a lot easier than trying to enter stage 2 right now.
Certainly, stretching your tongue will give you more reach and is an important part of preparation for kechari, with or without snipping.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
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my kechari journey--looking for some advice
