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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 05 2016 : 06:12:56 AM
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Hi!
I asked Yogani a question about deep meditation, and I thought I might ask for opinions in the forum also:
"Well, the question is regarding these lines in the book:
"What is not obvious is that each time we "lose" the mantra, we have gone through a natural shift in attention. During that shift, there is a space, or gap, between thinking the mantra and then finding ourselves in a stream of thoughts. In that space, we have touched our inner silence, our pure awareness, our inner self."
It was great to know that it is part of the meditation to lose the mantra going into thoughts, noticing this and picking up the mantra again. It is easy to block your thoughts when meditating, just to reach inner silence, or trancending.
Anyways, my question is where in this happening...going into thoughts when losing mantra...and noticing this and picking up mantra again...are we touching inner silence, or trancending thought? Someone told me that this state of pure awareness is without thought, but still when losing mantra and finding ourselves in a stream of thoughts is not a state without thought, so to speak.
Where in this happening do I find the gap you (Yogani) wrote about in the book? Is it right after losing the mantra, and right before the stream of thought begins?"
Feel free to comment on this :)
/Colours |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 05 2016 : 07:53:46 AM
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It's definitely in the gaps, but another way to inquire into stillness is to ask: where is it NOT? (That inquiry is not part of the Deep Meditation procedure, but I'm just throwing it out there as a general option to be used outside of the session).
Does stillness end where thoughts begin? Not necessarily. In some sense, a thought is merely stillness in the form of a vibration. That is Oneness, and we are That.
Easily favoring the mantra will bring about this realization automatically, both within and outside the gaps. No need to chase the gaps during meditation.
Good questions. Thank you. |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2016 : 01:20:00 AM
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| Lesson 157 throws more light on the subject. Again, as Bodhi says the boundary is blurred. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2016 : 11:45:26 PM
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Hi coulurs,
Great question and I can only share my experience... but I hope it helps.
What I have found is when someone is first starting to meditate and it doesn't matter if they are using the breath a rock or a mantra it will start off just like Yogani describes.
One will be on the mantra and without even realizing what is going on they will find themselves lost in thought.. That "gap" is when you found your inner silence... At first you don't notice it.. one moment you are on the mantra and the next you are gone.
Over time that gap becomes longer and longer. It is silence. Eventually you will be able to just reside in that silence and more.
Now there are writings that talk about the gap between thoughts being pure awareness in others it is said to lead to emptiness. In truth it leads to quiet mind. It leads to the void.. which is not pure awareness or emptiness.
It is pretty cool when you first experience it 
Also pure awareness can have thoughts and no thoughts. All the great beings talked and wrote things. They all expressed concepts to others which are thoughts. With that being said yes you can be in a state of silence with no thoughts, with the thoughts as silent energy flowing through you. You can move further to being that silent energy and further still both in and out of meditation..
I hope that helps to answer some of your questions.
All the best,
Tom |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2016 : 07:12:28 AM
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Thanks for the comments!
The funny thing is that when you are lost in thought and have not realised it yet, you are kind of one with the thought stream. If meditation is joining object and subject are you not joined with the subject when lost in thought?
I have a book on meditation with attention on breath, and somewhere in it it is saying that you should identify with the breath you are focusing on... is this the stillness we are seeking? I know that it sounds weird when saying that you should identify with something in meditation, but when you are identified with your breath, or with the stream of thoughts, it feels like oneness, and it feels like what you are striving for in meditation.
I guess that oneness with nothing is "better"...but can you not trancend thought or breath without it being completely silent?
When taking this up in another forum I have got the reply from someone who has been meditating "Trancendental Meditation" for a long time (something like 30-40 years) and he is saying that you should not identify with breath in meditation and that trancendence is without thought.
I don't know if TM teaches it different or if my feelings about this are wrong...
Anyways, it is an interesting topic!
All the best!
/Colours |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2016 : 08:46:10 AM
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| The idea is to let go, the attachment to thought, breath, or whatever. Inner silence is like the sun that appears briefly on a rainy and cloudy day. Inner silence is that period between the end of the concert and the people applauding the concert. It is hard to explain but people who have experienced it will cherish it. |
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sunyata
USA
1506 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2016 : 09:40:44 AM
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Very nice, jusmail. It feels that even the concert, the people, the applause is all silence.
Hi Colours,
The object of any meditation practice be it breath or mantra is to tame the monkey mind. It's nice to review or analyze in the beginning stages. However, it's best to let go as jusmail said and just follow the procedure of easily favoring the mantra when we notice we are off it. This will take you to the field beyond the mind not analysis.
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Edited by - sunyata on Sep 21 2016 09:50:19 AM |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2016 : 2:00:12 PM
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jusmail: Yes, that's probably true. Nicely said! I guess I am attached to the whole story, thought/no thought and it felt really nice after reading Yogani's book on DM, like I can relax more in meditation...not being so focused on this state without thought. I actually feel relieved after practicing, letting my thoughts go, and I guess that is somehow what is important, how you feel after and in between.
sunyata: Sometimes it is just enough, watching your thoughts without breath attention or mantra. But I guess focused attention has its advantages, "taming the monkey mind", going inwards. As long as we are not making war on our thoughts... :) |
Edited by - colours on Sep 22 2016 4:03:09 PM |
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sunyata
USA
1506 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2016 : 4:16:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by colours
sunyata: Sometimes it is just enough, watching your thoughts without breath attention or mantra. But I guess focused attention has its advantages, "taming the monkey mind", going inwards. As long as we are not making war on our thoughts... :)
Passive and breath meditation is recommended for sensitive meditators in AYP. Mantra meditation for the rest who are able to practice. As you know Yogani has many lessons on the benefits of mantra meditation versus other forms of meditation.
DM is the process of easily favoring the mantra when we notice we are off it. Definitely not focusing on the mantra and fighting with our thoughts. |
Edited by - sunyata on Sep 22 2016 4:19:45 PM |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2016 : 3:15:31 PM
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| I think I am starting to understand more how to "use the mantra" in meditation. And the book on DM helped a lot I think. I easily got an headache before with mantra meditation, but now the headache seem to disappear or get a lot lighter after practice. Must be a good sign? :) |
Edited by - colours on Sep 27 2016 3:17:47 PM |
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Transcendence of thought
