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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 04:55:07 AM
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| How can erectile dysfunction not block one's progress in Yoga? The lesson here http://www.aypsite.org/T78.html says so. May be he implies that the milestones such as K-awakening can still happen from sitting practices alone, but that is only part of the story for men. Without tantric sex one loses vital fluids in nocturnal emissions which if breaches the Yoga rule of no more than one ejaculation per 15 days, will surely prevent any progress ever. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 07:08:37 AM
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Hi FakeYogi,
People don't need to have sex to get enlightened. If they did, then that would rule out all the monks and nuns in the world, as they are nearly all celibate. In fact celibacy is often taught as a means to help people become enlightened. This is because when people are celibate, they are automatically retaining their sexual energy and sexual fluids, so that energy can be used to help with the process of spiritual transformation.
So if someone is suffering from erectile dysfunction, that will not be an issue at all when it comes to yoga. Nocturnal emissions can happen when the prana is mostly stored in the pelvic area, but once the prana begins to rise towards the higher centres, it stops happening. There is no rule in yoga that someone cannot ejaculate more frequently than every 15 days. What happens is that with orgasm and ejaculation, we lose energy and this makes the process of spiritual transformation take longer. If someone is losing a lot of energy through sexual practices, then their spiritual progress could even be stopped altogether, or they could regress. But occasional orgasm is not a problem. What "occasional" means depends largely on the practitioner. For some it could mean once a week, whilst for others it could mean once every two weeks, or every three weeks. And it will change over time, depending on what is happening with the energy in the body.
With prana being held in the body and not lost through orgasm, the sitting practices will cause the energy to rise towards the higher centres. These practices alone are enough to bring someone to enlightenment. There is no need to use any Tantric sexual practices at all. The Tantric sexual practices are there for people who are sexually active already and who wish to also practice yoga without giving up sex.
Christi |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 10:40:33 AM
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Christi
I know better. I'm a hopeless nocturnal emitter, I have not been able to tarnsmutate any Prana in 10 years because of this. I'm not talking about occasional orgasm. Some of us men just lose almost twice a week in sleep, sometimes thrice. It is anything but occasional. I don't know any logical means of stopping it other than with Tantra. And if the penis won't get erect when you are awake, then you are screwed. Enlightenment is denied because you will continue losing mug loads of semen every week, in sleep. And the 15 days thumb rule was said by Yogani himself. There can be exceptions but all men have the DNA of homosapiens so the optimal ejaculation frequency can't be that drastically different from man to man. Enlightenment is so much easier for females. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 11 2016 10:55:00 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 12:12:31 PM
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Hi FakeYogi,
What does your practice consist of, and how often do you practice?
Christi |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 1:49:36 PM
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| 15 min SPB, 20 min meditation twice a day, never skipped once in 10 years. On and off I have also been doing Yoni mudra Khumbaka and Dynamic Jalandhara but mostly skipped them since I feared that these advanced practices increase nocturnal emissions. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 11 2016 2:27:21 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 3:12:29 PM
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Hi FakeYogi,
Thanks for sharing your practice routine.
The reason I asked, is because, as you probably know, there are two sides to the enlightenment equation. One is energy (prana) and the other is bliss. The cultivation of the energetic side has some preconditions to it. One of those is that it is difficult if we are losing energy through sexual release.
But the cultivation of bliss, has no preconditions attached. In other words it does not matter what we are doing sexually, or what is happening to us sexually, we can still bring the mind to silence and cultivate peace, tranquillity, equanimity and bliss.
One of the things about prana, is that it responds to equanimity (a balanced mind) and to bliss. It will rise up to meet it, literally. So if your energy is stuck at the first two chakras, with resulting nocturnal emissions, then bringing the mind to silence repeatedly, will cause the body to overcome this limitation and bring the prana to the higher centres. In other words, it will awaken kundalini.
It is not necessarily true that Yoni mudra Khumbaka and Dynamic Jalandhara will cause the nocturnal emissions to become worse. Both those practices activate the higher chakras and will help to give the prana a new direction in the body, away from the sexual aspects. The mudras and bandhas also have the same effect, of causing prana to rise up to the higher centres, so they are worth considering too.
What I would advise you to do, would be to concentrate on cultivating inner silence, peace, equanimity and bliss, and let those qualities carry over into your daily life. You may also want to consider adding Samyama onto your practice if you do not do it already, as it is a powerful practice for bringing inner silence out into the world and into daily activity, beyond the sitting cushion.
You may also want to consider adding some asana practice onto the front of your practice. It helps to loosen the joints and the spine and to prepare the body for pranayama and meditation.
Christi |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2016 : 01:57:53 AM
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Thanks for the advice about inner silence, Christi, I think it is a very worthwhile strategy.
I should add that my inner peace has been repeatedly torn due to this emission itself. Each time I woke up with a wet pant my heart would be broken for the entire day or even the next day(s). This phenomenon itself has been shattering my inner silence by repeatedly causing deep wounds that kept coming before the previous one healed fully. This is real Rape, what is commonly called Rape is nothing compared to this, coz the victim doesn't lost vital fluids.
I think it has caused the physical weakening as well, leading to depression and then E.D. Although Western medicine would call it B.S., Ayurvedic, TCM and possibly Unani (Arabic-Persian) medicine doctors will say that the connection is real. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 12 2016 02:13:01 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2016 : 05:15:45 AM
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Hi FakeYogi,
Nocturnal emissions do not need to affect your inner silence in any way. Unless you let it, which is your choice, of course.
Yes, emissions can cause the body to be weakened, both on a physical level and on a vital level. But inner silence bring strength. And the strength that inner silence brings, is on the mental and causal levels and far outweighs any loss of strength in the physical or vital.
There is also an effect of contagion throughout the subtle vehicles. This means that as we build our inner strength through meditation, on the causal and mental levels, this will cause the vital (shukshma sharira) to be strengthened and in turn the physical body will be strengthened.
Everything is possible through meditation. Even miracles. 
Christi |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2016 : 11:43:56 PM
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| So just posting here to rant. This maintaining equanimity in the face of getting raped in sleep sounds like a plan in theory but practically very difficult. It happened day before yesterday again, and even though I tried not to think about it and busied myself with office work all day, but at the end of the day the pain and shock of yet another emission struck my heart real bad. Just like one may go into denial after the death of a loved one but later at night wake up crying bitterly. I hate having been born in this miserable body of a vessel which has big leakages and is not suitable to sail the ocean of life and reach destiny. |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2016 : 1:38:12 PM
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quote:
I hate having been born in this miserable body of a vessel which has big leakages and is not suitable to sail the ocean of life and reach destiny.
So Fake Yogi, it's been just six days since your original post, and that your anguish has been ongoing for months. You know this will not be an instant turnaround, yes? Hating your body and lot is not going to change things a bit, in fact I would argue it will set you back further as self hatred will build upon itself, wasting more energy in the process. Perhaps by ranting here, reading and re-reading your words may help you see the pitfall this is.
My guess is you are young and impatient for things to change. Cultivating inner silence is a plodding effort that will turn this ship around on your "ocean of life", but the dedication to practice and time will get you there eventually. In the meantime, pay less attention to losses and more attention to gains; the mind follows your attention, so give your mind some peace and something good to strive for. The nature of aging will eventually take care of your nocturnal emissions on its own, and your dedicated meditation practice will quicken this eventuality. |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2016 : 1:44:03 PM
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| By the way erectile dysfunction and nocturnal emissions are two separate things. |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 04:47:04 AM
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Dogboy,
Controlling emissions is a different problem, what me and Christi were addressing here is the attitude to follow when it happens. Her theory was that I could build inner silence despite losing copious vital energy. But it seems that the loss of energy shakes up the subtle nervous system so much that it is an impossible feat, when it keeps happening at a frequency of twice per week or even once per week. Imagine getting beaten to a pulp by thugs with hockey sticks once every week for 5 years. Inner silence is still possible? May be. But not so if you lose semen once a week for 5 years. Body and mind are intricately interconnected that at some deeper level they are both the same. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 19 2016 05:49:37 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 10:25:33 AM
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Hi FakeYogi,
It is not an impossible feat at all. It is really quite simple. The amount of energy that it takes to bring the mind to silence, is very little. It is about the same as the amount of energy required to read a newspaper. Or possibly, slightly less.
I would agree with Dogboy, that your fears and ideas around semen loss, have become out of control and have become the dominant factor in holding you back spiritually. The only thing that is stopping you from experiencing peace, is yourself.
Have faith!
Christi |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 10:37:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi FakeYogi,
It is not an impossible feat at all. It is really quite simple. The amount of energy that it takes to bring the mind to silence, is very little. It is about the same as the amount of energy required to read a newspaper. Or possibly, slightly less.
I would agree with Dogboy, that your fears and ideas around semen loss, have become out of control and have become the dominant factor in holding you back spiritually. The only thing that is stopping you from experiencing peace, is yourself.
Have faith!
Christi
Call me an idiot but wouldn't Yogani have mentioned it if it were the case? On the contrary he wrote that semen control is essential for progress. He didn't mention that you would recklessly lose semen like a leaking milk carton and still be on the path. Note that he calls out things that are necessary and those that are greatly helpful but not necessary, such as meditation and Pranayama respectively. In a similar way he didn't say semen control is helpful but not necessary. He said it is necessary.
Apart from progress angle I'm also killed everytime I lost semen from guilt of sin. I feel it has the sin of an abortion, may be slightly less, but still. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 19 2016 10:50:48 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 12:07:47 PM
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quote:
Thanks for the advice about inner silence, Christi, I think it is a very worthwhile strategy.
I should add that my inner peace has been repeatedly torn due to this emission itself. Each time I woke up with a wet pant my heart would be broken for the entire day or even the next day(s). This phenomenon itself has been shattering my inner silence by repeatedly causing deep wounds that kept coming before the previous one healed fully. This is real Rape, what is commonly called Rape is nothing compared to this, coz the victim doesn't lost vital fluids.
quote:
Call me an idiot but wouldn't Yogani have mentioned it if it were the case? On the contrary he wrote that semen control is essential for progress. He didn't mention that you would recklessly lose semen like a leaking milk carton and still be on the path. Note that he calls out things that are necessary and those that are greatly helpful but not necessary, such as meditation and Pranayama respectively. In a similar way he didn't say semen control is helpful but not necessary. He said it is necessary.
Apart from progress angle I'm also killed everytime I lost semen from guilt of sin. I feel it has the sin of an abortion, may be slightly less, but still.
Hi FakeYogi,
Retaining energy through celibacy, or through the practice of pre-orgasmic sex, is very useful for making progress on the spiritual path. However it is not essential. If it were, anyone experiencing nocturnal emissions, would not be able to make any spiritual progress and may as well abandon their practices.
If it was the case, that people experiencing nocturnal emissions could not gain any benefit from yoga, there would be a note at the beginning of the Main lessons, and of all of Yogani's books, to let everyone who is experiencing nocturnal emissions, know that there is no point in reading further, as the practices will not help them.
But there are no notes, and that is for a reason. As I explained above, inner silence can be cultivated by anyone, whatever their sexual orientation, or experiences. And with inner silence, comes peace, joy, freedom, love, harmony, equanimity and insight (vipassana). It also brings the rise of the witness, discrimination (viveka), dispassion (vairagya) and Self-knowledge. All of these things are aspects of the divine state.
And, as I mentioned above, cultivating these qualities, will raise the vibration of your subtle body, so that it is vibrating at a level where nocturnal emissions do not occur. In other words, it will raise the vibration of your subtle body to the heart level and higher. Then, it will be important to practice either celibacy, or tantric sexual practices, in order to raise your vibration further. Then that will be your choice.
Nobody is raping you.
You are also not committing any sin.
These ideas will do more to prevent you from simply finding peace inside than anything else. The sooner you can let go of them, the easier things will be for you.
For more on what sin is, see here:
Lesson 132 - What is Sin?
It is not even necessarily true, that the spiritual path need take you longer than it would take for someone else who is able to retain semen.
How long the spiritual path takes depends more on other factors, such as your level of determination (adhittana) and on your level of spiritual desire (bhakti). It will also depend on your level of faith (shraddha). Someone who has a strong determination, strong spiritual desire and strong faith can overcome any obstacle. It will also depend on your ability to surrender to that which is (Ishwara pranidhana). This alone is as important as the other three qualities mentioned above.
Together, all four of them, constitute brahmacharya and combined with spiritual practices, will lead you to your goal of awakening.
The methods of brahmacharya described in the AYP Tantric lessons, form basic instructions for some of the sexual tantric practices used for the retention of sexual energy and essences. Faith, spiritual desire, determination and surrender, form a higher path of brahmacharya.
Christi
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 2:02:20 PM
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Your words are like nectar.
Even with determination and bhakti, if one believes emissions are sinful, as I do, does his faith for progress not get shattered? And what does he surrender to in this case ? To denial of enlightenment ? That's how I have been torn internally over several years.
Your words that I can let inner silence develop despite the emissions is very comforting, although I find it difficult to believe that spilling semen is not a sin. In fact reading the link you gave only reaffirms to me that it is a crime against mother nature so it causes a negative karma that I have pay for. Karma works with infinite complexity and without playing favorites for anyone. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 3:03:19 PM
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quote:
Your words are like nectar.
Even with determination and bhakti, if one believes emissions are sinful, as I do, does his faith for progress not get shattered? And what does he surrender to in this case ? To denial of enlightenment ? That's how I have been torn internally over several years.
Your words that I can let inner silence develop despite the emissions is very comforting, although I find it difficult to believe that spilling semen is not a sin. In fact reading the link you gave only reaffirms to me that it is a crime against mother nature so it causes a negative karma that I have pay for. Karma works with infinite complexity and without playing favorites for anyone.
Hi FakeYogi,
Yes, if you believe that nocturnal emissions are sinful, and you are somehow committing a sin and that this will be detrimental to your progress, then that will be detrimental to your progress.
But what we choose to believe is our choice. You can choose to believe that, or not. Personally I would choose not, as that will lead to faster progress on the path. Eventually, everything we believe, is surrendered, so it could be useful to get in early with that one. Get it out of the way, so to speak.
Yes, it is true that karma works with infinite complexity, but primarily, karma, both positive and negative, is created through intent. So it is governed almost entirely by the thoughts we have, the words we say, or do not say and the actions we choose to make. What happens to us when we are asleep, is beyond our control, so it has hardly any karmic implications, either positive or negative. Dreaming is largely a working out of unconscious patterns, so it is a working out of karma. The exception to this would be lucid dreaming, where we are in control of our actions, but it does not sound as if that is the case for you, or you would be choosing to retain semen.
Understanding surrender, is one of the most difficult aspects of yoga. What we surrender to, and what is surrendered, are both very subtle and change over time as we progress in our sadhana. The Sanskrit that I used above was "Ishwara pranidhana", which literally means "surrender to the Lord" (Ishwara). One way of understanding this, is as surrender to the Higher Self, or simply the Self, with a capital "S", rather than a small "s".
So surrendering in yoga, means surrendering everything which stands in our way of becoming enlightened. So if we have the idea that we are not good enough, we can surrender that. Or if we have the idea that we are a sinner, and will always be a sinner, we can surrender that. What we surrender becomes increasingly refined and increasingly subtle as we progress. Ideas of separation and identity are surrendered. Even ideas such as "I am enlightened" have to be surrendered. So it goes all the way in.
If we do not have a clear perception of what the Self is, then we can surrender to our Ishta, or our highest ideal.
So surrender is a subtle aspect of yoga. It is a "letting go", but it is not a letting go of everything. We do not let go of those things that support us on the path, and which carry us forward. And the more we surrender the things that hold us down, whether those things are physical, or simply thoughts or belief structures, the lighter and freer we become and this in turn strengthens our faith and our determination and our spiritual desire. So there is a spiralling that happens as we are carried forwards.
All of this is discussed in lesson 252:
Self-pacing, Surrender and Enlightenment
Christi |
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sunyata
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 3:17:56 PM
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Christi~ Yes, Thank you. |
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Dogboy
USA
2197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 3:39:08 PM
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| Letting go is a gift both given and received, Fakeyogi. You can open just by wishing it. |
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 01:33:32 AM
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Nocturnal emissions are out of your control. How can you sin if you did nothing. Your body did it naturally.
Everybody is different and everybody will achieve enlightenment so relax and know you will, too. AYP makes allowances for many different people of different ages and capabilities and will work regardless of retaining semen or not.
I can't speak for myself but I assume there are people here making progress that aren't retaining semen.
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 02:03:40 AM
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quote:
Understanding surrender, is one of the most difficult aspects of yoga. What we surrender to, and what is surrendered, are both very subtle and change over time as we progress in our sadhana. The Sanskrit that I used above was "Ishwara pranidhana", which literally means "surrender to the Lord" (Ishwara). One way of understanding this, is as surrender to the Higher Self, or simply the Self, with a capital "S", rather than a small "s".
So surrendering in yoga, means surrendering everything which stands in our way of becoming enlightened. So if we have the idea that we are not good enough, we can surrender that. Or if we have the idea that we are a sinner, and will always be a sinner, we can surrender that. What we surrender becomes increasingly refined and increasingly subtle as we progress. Ideas of separation and identity are surrendered. Even ideas such as "I am enlightened" have to be surrendered. So it goes all the way in.
If we do not have a clear perception of what the Self is, then we can surrender to our Ishta, or our highest ideal.
So surrender is a subtle aspect of yoga. It is a "letting go", but it is not a letting go of everything. We do not let go of those things that support us on the path, and which carry us forward. And the more we surrender the things that hold us down, whether those things are physical, or simply thoughts or belief structures, the lighter and freer we become and this in turn strengthens our faith and our determination and our spiritual desire. So there is a spiralling that happens as we are carried forwards.
Self-pacing, Surrender and Enlightenment
Christi
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 12:09:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Yes, if you believe that nocturnal emissions are sinful, and you are somehow committing a sin and that this will be detrimental to your progress, then that will be detrimental to your progress.
But what we choose to believe is our choice. You can choose to believe that, or not. Personally I would choose not, as that will lead to faster progress on the path. Eventually, everything we believe, is surrendered, so it could be useful to get in early with that one. Get it out of the way, so to speak.
Hi Christi, Dennis,
I agree that one belief here may be more beneficial to progress than the other belief, regardless of the validity of the belief. i.e. until a certain time an illusionary wrong belief may be helpful than a heart breaking right belief. I'm saying this because it is not true that nocturnal emissions are not within our control. I don't want to go into every technical detail but I will offer 1 example - I discovered after many years of emissions that going to bed too soon after Pranayama greatly increases the chance of a wet dream. I try my best to avoid the bad karma due to this avoidable reason, but what about all those past emissions due to going to bed too soon after Yoga? As per the infinitely calculating Karmic laws, I'm guilty of not discovering that avoidable reason sooner and avoiding all those copious loss of semen.
That is not all the reason there is for a wet dream, but there is always a reason of one sort or the other, and just because I haven't discovered it or overcome it doesn't mean I'm innocent under the infinitely calculating Karmic laws.
But I see the value in always try diligently avoid an emission, but not cry and break my equanimity when it does happen. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Jun 20 2016 12:14:15 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 12:27:49 PM
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Hi Fakeyogi,
All beliefs are illusory. That is why, eventually, they all have to be surrendered on the spiritual path. We do not get to take any with us, all the way home.
As for karma, I would let it be what it is, and concentrate on your spiritual practices. It is easy to say: "I am guilty of this", or "I am guilty of that". But what if you are not? What if that is just another unfounded belief, that is holding you back on your path?
The Buddha once said that the laws of karma are so complex and unfathomable, that only a fully enlightened Buddha can understand them. Personally, I would leave fathoming the depths of karma to the Buddhas of this world, and concentrate on waking up.
You are where you are right now, as a result of everything you have ever done in the past. Where you will be in the future, will depend entirely on what you choose to do between now and then.
Christi |
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Running Water
Belgium
18 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2016 : 05:48:23 AM
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quote:
You are where you are right now, as a result of everything you have ever done in the past. Where you will be in the future, will depend entirely on what you choose to do between now and then.
Christi
I would add: consider :
...the law of nature (we are part of nature) , cause and effect ...acceptance is the golden key ...not resistance ( for example : in the form of guilty feelings ) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4369 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2016 : 11:10:50 AM
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quote:
I would add: consider :
...the law of nature (we are part of nature) , cause and effect ...acceptance is the golden key ...not resistance ( for example : in the form of guilty feelings )
Hi Running Water,
Yes, karma is a law of nature, and a process of cause and effect. So we are not wholly free in any moment to choose whatever we want, as we are conditioned by actions that have happened in the past. But we have a certain amount of free will, so our present and future actions are not wholly determined by either past actions, or our present condition.
And if we are on a spiritual path, the karmic consequences of all actions (past, present and future), become less and less, as the craving (trishna), and grasping (upadana) natures of the mind are reduced.
Christi
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sunyata
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2016 : 1:18:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
I would add: consider :
...the law of nature (we are part of nature) , cause and effect ...acceptance is the golden key ...not resistance ( for example : in the form of guilty feelings )
Hi Running Water,
Yes, karma is a law of nature, and a process of cause and effect. So we are not wholly free in any moment to choose whatever we want, as we are conditioned by actions that have happened in the past. But we have a certain amount of free will, so our present and future actions are not wholly determined by either past actions, or our present condition.
Christi
Nice Christi. The more I become aware of my karmic patterns, I have a choice to act/respond in the same old ways or to let silence move through me.
The former always leads to contraction in body and spirit. The later expansion and joy. |
Edited by - sunyata on Jun 21 2016 1:20:01 PM |
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Erectile dysfunction prevents Enlightenment
