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 Discussions on AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama
 "Ayam": what's the original pronunciation?
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  12:05:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
"A"aym:

"Amish"/"Arm"/"Are"?
or "Amount"/"Amends"/"America"?


Ay"a"m:

"Allergy"/"Am"?
or "Amish"/"Arm"/"Are"?
or "Amount"/"Amends"/"America"?





Edited by - now here on Sep 11 2015 1:30:28 PM

BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1089 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  1:13:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello now here

Lesson 13 contains an audio link to the I AM pronunciation (about half way down the page, where its says 'audio').
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  1:22:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, but that's the English "I am". Is that the best way to think it? I was wondering about the original Sanskrit pronunciation.. if there even is such a thing?
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1089 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  2:16:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It is the English pronunciation you want, or the closest you can get to it.
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Bodhi Tree

USA
2800 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  3:55:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Greetings now here,

The pronunciation is well beyond English or Sanskrit. Once you favor the mantra internally, you'll see how truly versatile it is.

"AY" and "AM" retain the same vibratory signatures, regardless of which language they're being filtered through.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2015 :  5:28:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Now Here,

The audio on lesson 13 is correct for the Sanskrit pronunciation of AYAM as well as the English I AM.

As we do not use the meaning of the word during meditation, in any language, it is simply the pronunciation (and sound vibration) that matters.

Christi
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Ecdyonurus

Switzerland
479 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2015 :  06:49:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, in the beginning I had you very same question about pronounciation. But after 1,5 years of DM using AYAM the mantra found its own pronounciation. Welll, I would even say that actually it goes behind pronounciation.

I would also recommend to start with a pronounciation close to the audio lesson, and the mantra will lead itself to the right one. This may take months, as I experienced.
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2015 :  11:08:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
(I get that the meaning is irrelevant and that the pronunciation is not the most important, although it is possible that a correct initial pronunciation could be favorable)
I just read an introduction to pranayama in the book "Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha" and there it was: "Ayama" !! (It means expansion)
Considering the word pranayama it seems that ayam is originally pronounced:
"A"yam: "Amount"
Ay"a"m: "Amish"
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So-Hi

USA
481 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2015 :  11:40:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Makes good sense as when practiced expansion is exactly what can be felt from the heart center.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2015 :  4:01:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Now here,

The words you are looking at are slightly confusing because of the way they are transliterated into the Roman alphabet. There are two kinds of "a" sound in Sanskrit, a short "a" as in Ayam and a long "a" vowel as in ayama. So you could write ayama as ayaama which means expansion or extension. So the word that goes to form the second part of pranayama (praanaayaama) is not related to the Sanskrit word ayam.

Ayam means "this" in Sanskrit.

Ayama rhymes with Lama and ayam rhymes with Sam.

But as mentioned many times, the mantra AYAM is not used for it's meaning just as the other Sanskrit words used as mantras in AYP are not used for their meaning either.

Hope that helps.

Christi
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jusmail

India
292 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2015 :  08:25:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yama, in Hindu mythology is the angel of death, snuffing out life. A-yama is the opposite, expansion, as has been mensioned earlier.
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Nov 26 2015 :  7:43:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
If it's simply pronounced "I am" (English).. then it means "I am"... so it has a meaning that may interfere. A useful mantra should be a meaningless sound.

Edited by - now here on Nov 26 2015 9:47:37 PM
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Ecdyonurus

Switzerland
479 Posts

Posted - Nov 27 2015 :  01:48:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi now here, I don't agree with you: it is not the mantra that should be meaningless, it is the meditator that should learn non attachment to the meaning.

In my native language, AYAM is very close to a word that means something like "I am hurt" (!). But this literal meaning does not interfere with my meditation as long as I favour the sound/vibration of the mantra.

I believe that it would be very difficult to find a mantra that does not mean absolutely nothing and is at the same time effective and safe

Edited by - Ecdyonurus on Nov 27 2015 03:21:25 AM
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Nov 27 2015 :  5:39:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus

Hi now here, I don't agree with you: it is not the mantra that should be meaningless, it is the meditator that should learn non attachment to the meaning.

In my native language, AYAM is very close to a word that means something like "I am hurt" (!). But this literal meaning does not interfere with my meditation as long as I favour the sound/vibration of the mantra.

I believe that it would be very difficult to find a mantra that does not mean absolutely nothing and is at the same time effective and safe



Sure. I guess that makes sense.
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Nov 27 2015 :  5:43:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat

Hello now here

Lesson 13 contains an audio link to the I AM pronunciation (about half way down the page, where its says 'audio').



I noticed the audio and DM instructions have been removed. So you need to pay AYP Plus to get the main lessons now? I already have the books DM, SBP, Asana, Tantra and Samyama (mantra enhancements are not in these books though). I'm just wondering how this affects AYPs accessibility and original open source approach.

Edited by - now here on Nov 28 2015 03:07:17 AM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Nov 28 2015 :  05:40:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Now Here,

Yes, Yogani has removed some of the lessons which used to be available for free, including Deep Meditation instruction (lesson 13). There used to be more lessons available for free with the information in the books being charged for. The money coming in from book sales and donations paid to cover the running of the organisation, which meant that the free stuff could remain free. Unfortunately, with the expansion of internet use, more and more people were accessing the free material and book sales started falling fast. It reached the point where Yogani realized that it was obviously not going to be sustainable over the long term. A few people were putting in a lot of time and money to keep AYP going, with many not putting anything in.

Most of the lessons (around 350) are still available for free, but many of the technique instruction lessons are now only available in AYP Plus or in the "Advanced Yoga Practices: Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living books". It means that the cost of running AYP and of keeping everything going is now being spread more evenly between many more people.

For anyone who cannot afford to join AYP Plus, there are scholarships available from money that has been donated specifically for that purpose.

Christi
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now here

18 Posts

Posted - Nov 29 2015 :  3:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Now Here,

Yes, Yogani has removed some of the lessons which used to be available for free, including Deep Meditation instruction (lesson 13). There used to be more lessons available for free with the information in the books being charged for. The money coming in from book sales and donations paid to cover the running of the organisation, which meant that the free stuff could remain free. Unfortunately, with the expansion of internet use, more and more people were accessing the free material and book sales started falling fast. It reached the point where Yogani realized that it was obviously not going to be sustainable over the long term. A few people were putting in a lot of time and money to keep AYP going, with many not putting anything in.

Most of the lessons (around 350) are still available for free, but many of the technique instruction lessons are now only available in AYP Plus or in the "Advanced Yoga Practices: Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living books". It means that the cost of running AYP and of keeping everything going is now being spread more evenly between many more people.

For anyone who cannot afford to join AYP Plus, there are scholarships available from money that has been donated specifically for that purpose.

Christi



Thanks for clarifying.
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shivdev

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Jun 12 2017 :  5:38:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

I like your posts. Much respect to what you have been doing and helping all of us. Hopefully someday we can all reach the same level as you :). Now as per the current topic correct me if i am wrong but the sanskrit pronounciation of ayam is "i yum". In the audio yogani pronounces it as "i yam". Does tbe pronounciation not matter because the mantra refines it self.

PS. I would love to meet you on the states side some day.

Best Regards,

Ram
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Now here,

The words you are looking at are slightly confusing because of the way they are transliterated into the Roman alphabet. There are two kinds of "a" sound in Sanskrit, a short "a" as in Ayam and a long "a" vowel as in ayama. So you could write ayama as ayaama which means expansion or extension. So the word that goes to form the second part of pranayama (praanaayaama) is not related to the Sanskrit word ayam.

Ayam means "this" in Sanskrit.

Ayama rhymes with Lama and ayam rhymes with Sam.

But as mentioned many times, the mantra AYAM is not used for it's meaning just as the other Sanskrit words used as mantras in AYP are not used for their meaning either.

Hope that helps.

Christi

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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Jun 13 2017 :  09:15:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Now as per the current topic correct me if i am wrong but the sanskrit pronounciation of ayam is "i yum". In the audio yogani pronounces it as "i yam". Does tbe pronounciation not matter because the mantra refines it self.


Hi Shivdev,

Welcome to the forum!

In general I find that it is not easy to have discussions in an online written forum about Sanskrit pronunciation.

There are a number of reasons for this. For example in this case, the English spoken language has a number of different "a" vowels and a number of different "u" vowels. For example, the "a's" in "father", "pram" and "late" are all different from each other and the "u's" in "full", "rude", "urban" and "fun" are all different from each other.

To add to the problem, different people from different regions have different accents and pronounce these vowel sounds differently. Then there is another issue, which is that some of the vowel sounds in Sanskrit (of which there are many), do not necessarily correspond directly with any of the vowel sounds in English.

When it comes to mantras though, the best way to find out how to pronounce a mantra is to ask someone who is both able to feel the subtle vibration of the mantra in their body and has knowledge of the awakening process. Then they are able to say how the mantra should be pronounced in order to have the most beneficial effect. Or, to ask someone who can "hear" the mantras resonating in the subtle levels of the universe. In this case, Yogani is someone who can do both of those things, so it is best to go with the pronunciation he gives in the audio in lesson 13.

It is not desperately important though, as the mantra will refine anyway, as you say, as the mind settles down and becomes calm. Essentially though AYUM (at least the way most English speakers would pronounce that), would be a different mantra than AYAM.

There are some people who say that the entire Sanskrit language was created in this way, by the Rishis thousands of years ago observing the way that sounds resonate in the subtle neurobiology and listening to the subtle sounds of the universe, and then using those sounds to form a language. I cannot prove that, but my experience with chanting in Sanskrit and observing the way that it effects my own consciousness does make me suspect that there is some truth in it.

quote:
PS. I would love to meet you on the states side some day.



I am hoping to be able to come over to the Sates next year to help lead a retreat there. Possibly in the New York/ Boston area. Let's see what the universe manifests!


Christi
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lateralus

USA
32 Posts

Posted - Jun 14 2017 :  05:53:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
When I first started the I Am meditation,the experience was with the mind wanting/needing to figure out "what". As in "I Am What?" There was resistance to just accepting "I Am". There's a subtle,and for others,not so subtle tension associated with the mind's want/need to know. As per the instruction,we simply return to the mantra when we find ourselves off it.Over time,that sensation of tension gradually reduces,allowing one to go deeper into that quiet space of awareness. There's a great joy of coming to that silence within that eventually overrides the minds need to know "what".

What starts out as a simple two word mantra,refines,and eventually, transmutes into something of a vibrational nature within the nervous system.

The experiential awareness,of Being.

Edited by - lateralus on Jun 14 2017 06:22:09 AM
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shivdev

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Jul 15 2017 :  10:35:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

In my experience i started out DM with a different mantra last year and the effect was not the same as AYAM. I fell off the wagon and discontinued my practices. This year i wanted to try something different and picked up AYAM mantra. It has been 4 months since then and it is amazing. I changed a lot. My bhakti keeps growing and growing. My diet changed. I became more centered. Even then I felt something was missing from my practice. I read one of your posts that without love and heart the experience is not good. That rang a bell and I added Solar centering. That was the missing piece. I felt much better after that. I feel DM should be done with Solar centering only. My ecstatic experiences keep growing but still i crave for self-realization. I am not sure when i will get there but i feel that is the only worth while goal in life. Anyways i digress my point is that no doubt AYAM mantra has its magic and i think it is because it vibrates the sushumna nadi like yogani says. Like he says the proof is in the pudding and my own experience speaks for it. Thanks to Yogani for changing so many lives. I can't thank him enough for changing mine for the better. Like all saints say even if you can change one soul than there is nothing like it. The reason for my earlier post was that since it is mentioned as sanskrit mantra just wanted to clarify the pronunciation. Personally i don't care about the pronunciation as I can experience what all yogani wrote for the techniques i practiced so far. I look forward to meeting you in the NYC retreat next year.

Thank you,
Ram
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2017 :  06:48:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shivdev,

Some people use the Solar Centering Enhancement and others don't. It is mostly advised for people who have been using DM for a while, but find that they are getting stuck in thought processes. Locating the mantra in the solar plexus can help to reduce that tendency. The advantage with not using it, is that the mantra remains free to move around the body, purifying different areas according to what is needed. So there are pro's and con's to using/ not using the technique. Personally I don't use it, but prefer to allow the mantra to move freely.

Looking forward to meeting you next year in the USA!


Christi
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shivdev

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2017 :  1:15:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

Sorry about my late response. For me i have too much energy in my head and that is the reason for me using solar centering enhancement. Siddhasana fills my head with too much energy. For now I am just sticking with mula bhanda and shambavi mudra in pranayama to balance things out. I am a sensitive meditator :)

-Ram

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Shivdev,

Some people use the Solar Centering Enhancement and others don't. It is mostly advised for people who have been using DM for a while, but find that they are getting stuck in thought processes. Locating the mantra in the solar plexus can help to reduce that tendency. The advantage with not using it, is that the mantra remains free to move around the body, purifying different areas according to what is needed. So there are pro's and con's to using/ not using the technique. Personally I don't use it, but prefer to allow the mantra to move freely.

Looking forward to meeting you next year in the USA!


Christi

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