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Tempest
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 11:47:48 AM
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If we call God the absolute consciousness which pervades everything/the creator.
If God is omnipotent, omnipresent and onmniscient, why does he not act in the world or if you say he acts why does he partially act?
Why let a single negative act occur in the world? Why let a single being suffer?
Why create a world with so much suffering and inherent violence in it?
Does this not imply that God lacks goodness or power or both?
How much of our lives are the result of freewill and how much is the result of destiny?
Are we given a role and are we actors given a script to play out?
Is there justice in the world? Are wrong doers punished for negative acts? Does God punish people? |
Edited by - AYPforum on Aug 17 2015 3:37:14 PM |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 1:08:22 PM
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I was watching Ben Affleck in a movie the other day and he was a bad guy. Should he be punished for all the bad things he did in that movie in real life? Should he go to jail for the bad things his character did?
No, because it is a movie.
If you could step back from this life and realize it is all a movie. All the pain and suffering and everyone with there desires wanting this and that...
What if we are really more.. outside of the movie/video game?
This life is just like our daydreams. All type of things happen in our dreams but we don't blame God for them do we? We know they are self arising and just dreams.
So to is this life.
People want to blame God for there wants and desires.. It doesn't work that way.. |
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Tempest
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 2:55:47 PM
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But life doesn't feel like a dream or movie for the vast majority of people. It feels like reality and humans suffer greatly.
It is extremely difficult to detach from suffering. The path of yoga supposedly takes years and even then there are no guarantees.
Isn't this cruel? Why isn't self/God realization the norm or easy? Why must we suffer and some say for many lifetimes too? |
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sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:28:03 PM
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Hi Tempest,
Jonesboy has already given you excellent advice. Yes,everything looks like effort until it becomes effortless.
Practice everyday like brushing your teeth and enjoy small milestones that come your way. Humans have a choice to complain/drown/pity themselves in suffering or rise above it with spiritual practices. We have a choice. You have already landed in AYP. Count this as a blessing and continue with the practice. As the saying goes "Rome was not built in a day".
Sunyata |
Edited by - sunyata on Aug 17 2015 3:34:09 PM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:30:31 PM
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Here is the truth of the matter it is all a matter of perception.
For the person who holds the world as the op has posited then the Ketchup blood is very real. It is unkind to say it is not and besides that they will think you are crazy. They would be right.
For those that have a little knowledge and experience of the something more it is not so real. If they get hurt they will have a different attitude, other than that they are just as subject to the rules of this realm as anyone else, it is the attitude that is different.
It is enough to consider both points of view at either extremes, they are both correct but once one begins leaving the common sense entry point of view, of up is up and down is down, one is no longer quite able to accept that this is all there is to it.
These people are now unable to make what they know known unless speaking with a person of close understanding to their own.
For those that have made it all the way, the historic ones like Jesus etc... well to them who may say what it is?
So on the left hand God is a bastard and the world is unjust and cruel on the right it is all a divine play somewhere in the middle most of us reside in our comprehension.
In short it goes both ways and the only way to comprehend such amazing sounding BS is to arrive.
How do you arrive?
By the vehicle of Yoga and AYP are a nice vehicle for the ride. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:36:25 PM
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The difficulty with this type of discussion is that we tend to anthropomorphize God. We apply our good/bad distinctions to an order that is way beyond our ability to understand.
If it were up to us humans, we'd probably take out death, destruction and perhaps any kind of decline/decay out of this order. The thing is you can't have life without death and creation without destruction. Otherwise matter would freeze into total death - everything would soon come to a stand still.
"As long as Shiva dances his destructive dance, the world will continue to exist" - I think it's a Hindu say that I remember hearing a long time ago (quoting from memory, so it's probably approximate). |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:37:14 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Tempest
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 4:13:40 PM
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quote:
The thing is you can't have life without death and creation without destruction.
But why did God create anything in the first place? If God is all bliss, complete, perfectly content, why create the maya of this world? Why create anthing at all?
As some kind of game? Lila? To amuse himself? Isn't that a little twisted? |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 5:42:58 PM
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| "amuze hmself"? You see what I mean by anthropomorphize. Projecting human intentions or modes of behaviour on to God makes no sense. At least to me it doesn't ... sorry! |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 6:09:32 PM
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quote:
"amuze hmself"? You see what I mean by anthropomorphize. Projecting human intentions or modes of behaviour on to God makes no sense. At least to me it doesn't ... sorry!
Agree with this.
We are God, God is us. As above so below. God is not a separate entity; a cell will never truly understand the complexity of the complete organism. |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 6:25:52 PM
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It is said in the beginning the creator wished to become many to experience the creation. If there were any human quality to ascribe to God it would be curiosity.
You do not know a thing without experience of it firsthand.
From a certain point of view it is funny to worry about ascribing human qualities to God, rather we should be humble to the fact we are all part of God, and all qualities including our ignorance are really Gods qualities and in our perception of separateness we have been blessed with independence and equally cursed by the pain it can bring as our true nature is one of unity.
As human creatures we only know a very little and remember even less, quick what did you eat 12 years ago on this date and at what time?
In our current state most of us are very limited some less than others.
All can clean the window to get clearer perception.
Tempest try coming at your questions from the point of view that you are none other than God, but you have forgotten on purpose in order to bring back true understanding to the Gestalt from every conceivable point of view in ultimate granularity.
Consider also this may all be a trial run and once true knowing and identity is understood this creation will be remade in Gods image but first God needs to educate itself and chose no more sacrificial way than casting itself out amidst the cosmos to suffer and enjoy but above all else become wise on the way back.
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Krisandru
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 7:41:36 PM
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I'll try to give you simple answers and let you meditate upon them.
If God is omnipotent, omnipresent and onmniscient, why does he not act in the world or if you say he acts why does he partially act?
Because if he wants to act upon this world, He will have to destroy all the other worlds that are beyond this one. (planetary world, sun world, all stars or galactic world, and all the worlds - all galaxies)
Why let a single negative act occur in the world? Why let a single being suffer?Because from the Absolute/God emerges 3 forces: Active - Positive, Negative - Passive & Neutralizing - Neutral. With other words, that's His game and all the creatures have to play accordingly to His will.
Why create a world with so much suffering and inherent violence in it?God did not created this world, this world emerges from other worlds - we are part of the solar system and yet part of Milky Way. God created our galaxy but not the laws of it. Those laws are in fact the interaction of this 3 forces (+; -; /) that have divided in 3 as well an perpetuate and reached us, forces that emerged from the ones created by God/Absolute. Humanity for instance is over 96 different forces, a man that is healthy is under 48 different laws/forces and so forth.
Does this not imply that God lacks goodness or power or both?
Thats how it looks from the below up.
You probably heard about this joke: http://i.imgur.com/zUzrI98.jpg
How much of our lives are the result of freewill and how much is the result of destiny?Its hard to tell but it is obvious that we have less free will than destiny/chance/accident.
Are we given a role and are we actors given a script to play out?That would be nice, at least you would know that you are an actor. In reality is even worst, we are machines that we believe we can do stuff.
Is there justice in the world? Are wrong doers punished for negative acts? Does God punish people?God does not punished people, but no worries, ALL people that do bad deeds or harm others, will sooner or later pay there debt. Don't forget, this reality works on cause-effect and NOBODY can't cheat it. - not even Gautama, Jesus, Krishnamurti, Osho etc etc. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 8:48:48 PM
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I think God got bored with all the micro-management and thought: "Eh, I'll just let 'em play around and figure it out. But I'll leave 'em the perfect law of cause and effect just so they have a fair chance."
Then he kicked back and propped up his massive, cosmic feet on a giant, intergalactic table, and he's been watching the show ever since.  |
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sunyata
USA
1505 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 8:53:35 PM
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Right on Bodhi! .Somedays he probably has a bucket of popcorn and soda as well, of course they must be made out of prana |
Edited by - sunyata on Aug 17 2015 8:58:45 PM |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 9:53:39 PM
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And other days She gets completely "loaded", inebriated by souls expressing their infinitude against all odds, and might forget Herself and the laws of creation in response to such bhaktis.
Edit: spelling |
Edited by - BillinL.A. on Aug 18 2015 9:44:24 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 10:31:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
...of course they must be made out of prana
Yes! Right now I'm seeing them as a kind of luminescent orange with hints of red ochre. 
quote:
Originally posted by BillinL.A.
...inebrited by souls expressing their infinitude against all odds, and might forget Herself and the laws of creation in response to such bhaktis.
At last! A portrayal of God, the Feminine Higher Power, as an ecstatically irresponsible alcoholic. Love it. I'm going to keep this one up my sleeve for use in AA (just to ruffle some feathers  ).
Thank you both! |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 09:20:46 AM
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Jackie Chan at his best. On the left hand of God.  |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 2:02:26 PM
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I like that idea of cosmic feet. And the bucket of popcorn and soda
A friend just sent me a link to this lecture:
https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_ho...ity_as_it_is
In a nutshell, perceived reality is like a 3D desktop designed to hide the complexity of the real world and guide adaptive behaviour in our environment. I thought it puts all these God questions in an interesting perspective - basically, our cognitive functions are shaped to make us function in this world. When it comes to 'seeing' the meaning of the Universe, they might not quite cut it.
It's just as well to give up trying to work it out intellectually and rest in inner silence.  |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Aug 18 2015 2:05:01 PM |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 10:05:26 AM
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Tempest
Consider this...
God did not create suffering and God does not particularly like suffering. But God did create US, in full knowledge that we (His creation, an extention of Himself) would inevitably be processing suffering. In fact, He may have created us for the explicit purpose of dealing with universal suffering ... the inevitable taking of responsibility for the suffering we directly experience, as well as what we initially may perceive as the suffering of others (which is the same).
Suffering can range from mild to extremely brutal, but at its core suffering seems to result from a lack of love and/or understanding. Love-Wisdom. I personally believe that Shiva (Divine and Absolute Power), who is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, has the function of destroying all which is not pure righteousness, love and wisdom. The extent to which we resist or blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the extent to which we consciously and intentionally inflict suffering on both ourselves and others. As ourselves and others are the same, there is - in reality - no difference.
When our consciousness expands to the point where we fully realize that any one being's suffering (including the suffering of any and all sentient beings) is exactly the same as our own personal suffering, we become non-immune to the suffering of others. Then and only then.
God perhaps desired an extention of Himself, created beings, who would eventually come to the above realization. And seed the universe with Himself as pure righteousness or love-wisdom ... the perfect antidote for suffering.
So, I believe, we are progressing towards a universe which will eventually be purged of the experience of suffering.
But don't hold your breath. This may appear to be a maddeningly slow process.
The guru is in you and you are The One you have been waiting for. When the Divine moves in you, embrace IT with gratitude. Strive to always be fully PRESENT. For the Divine IS our being fully present in the moment.
love
parvati |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 11:17:19 AM
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quote:
The guru is in you and you are The One you have been waiting for. When the Divine moves in you, embrace IT with gratitude. Strive to always be fully PRESENT. For the Divine IS our being fully present in the moment.
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iseekbalance
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 10:27:31 PM
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| In my view we all are experience things that we deserve.. This life revolves around karma so people who are suffering are so because of bad deeds of the past life... After I started becoming more spiritual by meditation I realised that karma really exists. ...God created us and we was neutral at start but we had free will and then felt for the temptation of life and then committed bad deeds and then suffering started occurring... so everything is on us... Every good thing or bad thing happening to us is because of us...As a child i always believed in god but some time ago i questioned if there was really god. .. then i experienced glimpses of God and then everything is good.. i was really nervous person n shy in life but now have totally changed.. i would recommend doing ayp things and may be u will too experience and realize the answer to ur question. . Peace |
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Tempest
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2015 : 12:45:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by iseekbalance
Every good thing or bad thing happening to us is because of us..
I just don't buy this. Old age and disease are suffering and they happen to everyone. Furthermore, bad things happen to good people and vice versa |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2015 : 2:59:07 PM
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Hi Tempest,
I don't know the answers to your questions or what your situation is. I've had multiple children die in my family in the past few years. If I came on here and read some of the above responses while I was still raw, I wouldn't be too happy about it.
I just see AYP as a movement towards Karma Yoga. Maybe we don't know all the answers, but we are moving towards helping others as ourselves. I know a lot of the other posters are doing that in their own way. |
Edited by - lalow33 on Aug 24 2015 3:00:08 PM |
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Tempest
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2015 : 09:48:03 AM
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| Hey Lalow, I'm sorry to hear about your family's children |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 03:49:45 AM
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You will not be able to make sense of this at an intellectual level, Tempest.
Have you ever been passionately in love with somebody? There are painful moments - absences, the occasional transgressions, things that hurt you. But you will not give it up because it makes you feel so happy and so alive. Now scale that up - way, way up - and imagine you're in love with the Universe. There is pain, but the bliss is so exquisite you would not have it any other way. |
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Topic |
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Why does God not act?
