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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 4:20:41 PM
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Hello
Please comment on an specific exercises to facilitate this. Also is it possible to "turn off a sense, example hearing if its too noisy or you need to sleep?
Thanks for your input
KV |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 5:52:24 PM
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Well, meditation is certainly an introversion of the senses. We are using a thought (the mantra) right off the bat, and a thought is an inner object, so the technique implicitly turns the senses inward. The same could be said about spinal breathing pranayama, since the focus is on the spinal nerve in the central channel (sushumna). Finally, samyama starts from the inside by touching upon sutras and then moves outward by releasing thoughts into bliss consciousness, which includes the outer world.
Re: turning off senses because of external distractions, I would advise touching upon the distraction itself in the same way a sutra is touched upon, very briefly and then released. That can be a way of dissolving irritability or disagreement. Of course, you may need to physically move away, or ask someone else to move away, but in lieu of that, you can try the samyama way.
Sometimes our silence can integrate distractions, or swallow them, so to speak. Other times we have to let the body move where it needs to go. And, if the body has to move, that movement does not necessarily run contrary to samyama, since stillness in action is the end result anyway. 
Unity. Wisdom. Inner Sensuality. 
P.S. Here's one of my favorite songs about introversion of the senses...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9CD4_3wChM |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 6:23:40 PM
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Sat Nam Bohdi Tree
thank you for your note. I will be mores specific, I have a constant ringing in my ears and a hypersensativity to light and sound. I am trying to tone it down if possible. This is due to a medical condition.
I have a centeral nervous system infection, and I believe if I can fully activate my Kundalini, this will clear pathogen from my body . I am enjoying the process, and am just trynig to figure out what is possible.
Thanks for the song, its a great one and a great album.
eat pray yoga
KV |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 6:25:43 PM
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Hi Karen!
Yogically speaking,Pratyahara comes after Pranayama according to Patanjala.As Bhodhi already mentioned,that Pranayama is Kriya pranayama ie. Spinal breathing as it is Sushumna oriented.
Thus thru regular practice of Kriya pranayama dynamism of Prana is gradually reduced.When Prana becomes still thru Pranayama,real Pratyahara is possible as senses are faculty of mind and mind is dynamic as mind=Prana ie. senses get completely turned off once when mind is off due to absence of it's(Prana's)dynamism.That can be done thru Pranayama.
Thus in Rudrayamal,chapter 15 it is said;"Pranayama Mahadharma vedanamapyagocarah..." which means:"That Pranayama is the Mahadharma (ultimate religion) which is incomprehensible even to the Vedas, it is the essence of all virtues and the destroyer of all sins. By this millions of misdeeds and all the sins of previous births are destroyed. The one who practices this Pranayama is blessed."(From book:"Purana Purusha Yogiraj Sri Shama Churn Lahiree" by Yogacharya Chatterjee)
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 6:45:18 PM
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P.G is one of a few  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2015 : 7:32:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KarenVic
I will be mores specific, I have a constant ringing in my ears and a hypersensitivity to light and sound. I am trying to tone it down if possible. This is due to a medical condition.
I have a central nervous system infection, and I believe if I can fully activate my Kundalini, this will clear pathogen from my body . I am enjoying the process, and am just trying to figure out what is possible.
Hmmmm. There are certainly plenty of stories of healing from subtle energy. I think my immune system has strengthened as a result of kundalini. I seem to recover quickly and have avoided taking antibiotics in the past few years, though I have been dealing with a small infection that is getting better. I mainly stick with copious amounts of fruit and bombard it with samyama.
I will wish for your highest and best good, which is surely an improvement in health. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 12:59:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by KarenVic
Please comment on an specific exercises to facilitate this.
Here's what I did.
20 years of visualizing/tracing the pathways inward, one at a time, from eyes, ears, nose, taste buds, and skin surface (without regard for any externals - i.e. any data traveling those pathways at the moment. You're studying the channel, not the signal), followed by attention to the aggregation (again: noticing channel, which is unvarying, rather than signal, which is fleeting). I didn't pursue this obsessively, just a few minutes per day after meditation. Anything can be overdone, including this. So go easy (but consistently).
Then there were a few years deepening and opening to what I'd learned, as expressed here.
Then 10 years doing samyama, twice per sutra, using the following sequence: "visual apparatus", "audio apparatus", "olfactory apparatus", "taste apparatus", "touch", "loving heart". I realize the terms sound extremely clunky, but they're very carefully considered.
Also, I'd suggest you consider this your own personal iconoclastic project of discovery. After the first ten years, I couldn't find any books or teachers or teachings that even touched on what I'd discovered. I decided (and am still convinced) that pratyahara is a lost branch of yoga. It can be rediscovered individually, but you'll have nothing to guide you. So just proceed with curiosity and well-paced persistence (and, if you'd like, use my suggestions, above, as a launching board). And, obviously (given my timeline), expect to make it a lifetime pursuit. I'm actually particularly GOOD at this sort of inward vision stuff, and yet I'm still working it over this long, long, arc. And that feels totally okay to me.
quote:
Also is it possible to "turn off a sense, example hearing if its too noisy or you need to sleep?
That's not the yoga approach (and certainly not the pratyahara approach). All problems stem from your perspective, not outward circumstance. There is no problem in the world; it's perfect if you'll simply open to it all the way. Apparent problems are an externalization of your own internal resistances to What Is. This short video will get you on your way. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 23 2015 02:04:17 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 10:32:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar ul islam
P.G is one of a few
Hello Kumar
thank you for your note, the quoets you say make sense, beyond duality there is no perception. I will keep at it,
I wish you all speed on your journey
in light, love and service
KV |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 10:36:12 AM
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Hello SolInvictus
Thank you for you lovely note, I appreciate it and will re double my efforts. My Monkey mind has been at it lately, and practice has become something I force myself to do, even though I love it, for some reason lately its a struggle.
Yogically speaking,Pratyahara comes after Pranayama according to Patanjala.As Bhodhi already mentioned,that Pranayama is Kriya pranayama ie. Spinal breathing as it is Sushumna oriented.
Thus thru regular practice of Kriya pranayama dynamism of Prana is gradually reduced.When Prana becomes still thru Pranayama,real Pratyahara is possible as senses are faculty of mind and mind is dynamic as mind=Prana ie. senses get completely turned off once when mind is off due to absence of it's(Prana's)dynamism.That can be done thru Pranayama.
Thus in Rudrayamal,chapter 15 it is said;"Pranayama Mahadharma vedanamapyagocarah..." which means:"That Pranayama is the Mahadharma (ultimate religion) which is incomprehensible even to the Vedas, it is the essence of all virtues and the destroyer of all sins. By this millions of misdeeds and all the sins of previous births are destroyed. The one who practices this Pranayama is blessed."(From book:"Purana Purusha Yogiraj Sri Shama Churn Lahiree" by Yogacharya Chatterjee)
[/quote] |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 10:36:45 AM
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| Thankyou jim |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 10:43:03 AM
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Jim and his Karma
How can I thank you enough for that film clip, its brilliant. I was so moved by it , I was brought to tears. Funny after all the Yoga and searching and reading and meditatiing,
and that thought never occured to me around physical maladies. I do make the conscious effort with people, but then again its all one, all one perception.
I send you light and love, and whisper into the silence, Jime and his Karma
Stay true
KV
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 12:50:27 PM
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Brilliant video Jim!
In a way it sums up all yoga. All spirituality in fact.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 1:00:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
All problems stem from your perspective, not outward circumstance. There is no problem in the world; it's perfect if you'll simply open to it all the way. Apparent problems are an externalization of your own internal resistances to What Is.
That's kind of true. I say "kind of" because the deeper you become immersed in What Is, the more there is an active engagement with What Is, including internal and external circumstances. The witness is just an intermediary stage and not necessarily a full flowering of active surrender or stillness in action.
There are problems in the world, and there are solutions to those problems. The scope and trajectory of evolution is one of progress and refinement, and if the notion of perfection, AKA no problems, is clung to as the cherished mentality, that can result in a kind of passive spirituality or detached malaise that is not on the leading edge but rather resting on its laurels. For instance, if you say: War and violence are perfect because they are a part of What Is, that's not as effective as saying: War and violence are a part of What Is (at the present moment), but I would like to cultivate inner peace for the purpose of dissolving war and violence within the future moment (which is also part of the Here Now).
It's a mistake to try to bypass past and future completely.
I think what is perfect is the dynamic of cause and effect, and upon that principle we can rely. Samyama uses the cause and effect of releasing intentions/desires into stillness, and letting stillness manifest, or dissolve, those vibrations in a wholesome way.
P.S. There's a difference between just listening to a symphony, and physically picking up an instrument and playing along with the symphony. In other words, I would have advised the Russian cosmonaut to start thumping his hands on the dashboard along with the tempo, so he could experience the full pleasure of bringing his mental imagination into physical reality. Witness...becomes...stillness in action. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 1:32:10 PM
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quote:
if you say: War and violence are perfect because they are a part of What Is, that's not as effective as saying: War and violence are a part of What Is (at the present moment), but I would like to cultivate inner peace for the purpose of dissolving war and violence within the future moment (which is also part of the Here Now).
Yeah, I'm familiar with this thinking. It's quite in vogue among western seekers, and I happen to be strongly against it. I'm totally uninterested in trying to use yoga and other spirituality "tools" to try to hack preferred results here in the temporal world. Two reasons:
1. I'm nowhere near wise enough or pure-intentioned enough. This stuff involves the presumption that I truly know best (and am fabulously pure of heart), but time and time again such presumption has been proven wrong. I'm acutely aware that the path to hell is paved with good intentions. I also know I'm fraught with resistance (the only thing distinguishing me from Everything is my own resistance!). I'd make an incredibly sh*tty God. Your mileage may vary, of course.
and
2. this sort of thing strikes me as a trap for getting sucked back into needing things to be this way or that way. I understand the detachment inherent in what you're describing, and I understand that you think that's a screen to prevent such outcome. But detachment - like anything else - can be (or transform into) a pose. Not as dangerous as the "I know best!" pose, but still pretty worrisome.
I use yoga to unclench the resistance in myself...period. This still seems, after 40 years of spiritual practice (including an infinite expansion of the heart at age 13), a worthy challenge. So I keep it on that burner, and otherwise, I simply enjoy the ride here in daily life, without getting seriously caught up in needing things to go this way or that way. I've torn up all my "turn-ons/turn-offs" lists. Including lovely-sounding things like "world peace", whatever that even means (a world with feelings will always include feelings we don't like; seamless peace is found in stillness, not in this razzle-dazzle world).
That said, sometimes my passion ignites and my attention focuses on some this-or-that, and, quite naturally - and without self-consciously invoking any new-agey occult personal intentions - my energy invests in something. But it's spontaneous and natural, not calculated. Childlike zeal, nothing more. And that feels right for me. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 23 2015 2:05:39 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 2:16:32 PM
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This is a fascinating discussion, Bodhi and Jim.
I find myself agreeing with both of you, which might seem strange since you've hit a point of disagreement - that might be because I haven't spotted the 'calculation' is Bodhi's choosing to join the symphony.  |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 2:38:04 PM
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Hi Jim, Bodhi and All:
You can have it both ways, by having the intention (to do or not do) and letting it go in stillness. Then get on with whatever the day presents ... it'll be there, in stillness.
TGIIY
PS: Btw, excellent discussion on introversion of the senses. Thanks.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 2:53:08 PM
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Right on, Jim. Your humility is admirable, and your self-deprecating humor is appreciated. I make fun of myself on a regular basis, and certainly allow friends and family to have a good joke at my expense. Actually, that's one thing I have enjoyed about the hundreds of AA meetings I've attended--it's fair game to laugh at our shortcomings. Ahhh, so relieving.
Yet, I also see us as evolutionary creatures, and stillness is not just a void to me, but a living Presence shaping and influencing the temporal world. That is the miracle: where the eternal meets the ephemeral.
One of my favorite Jesus quotes is: "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." Well, I'm not so much into "beliving in" as I am into practicing and emulating, but then again, some kind of forward-thinking belief is necessary to catalyze my practice routine and karma yoga.
Don't get me wrong!--I don't want to fall into a messiah complex, but those scriptural words nevertheless point to something utopian brewing on the horizon, and that is inspiring.
Also, falling in love with the Divine Feminine has compelled me to hold sacred Her Form on Earth, and to see That as equally valid and worthy of attention, alongside the silent masculine seed.
Of course, I talk a lot of pretty poetic talk. Whether I am walking the walk may be a different story. But, I am a work in progress, like everyone else. I find great peace in not resisting the change which is intrinsically part of Self. It is what it is, and what it is...is changing.
Catch you on the flipside (or maybe we're already there  ). |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 3:13:02 PM
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Yogani,
I don't deal in intentions (outside my practices). I might spontaneously and unself-consciously intend stuff, in a natural way, just like anyone else (e.g. intend to comfort a grieving friend, or to win a race). But I'm not "working it", spiritually.
That's the crucial difference, and it really can't be both ways. Letting go into stillness is a subtle means of working it. Tiny, but powerful - "less is more", as you often say....but I'm not angling to maximize. I'm not smart enough, wise enough, pure enough. I'm not smug enough.
If I see you hit your head, my empathy would engage, and, who the hell knows, make some difference somehow (I doubt it, frankly). I leave it at that (aside from running around gathering ice and aspirin). I don't do "moves". I don't release into silence, or intend...any of this occult stuff that's become so bound up in spirituality for so many people. That's not what I'm in yoga for.
I'm in yoga because I perceive (per my posting above, and that video) that the world is fine as-is, and that spiritual work isn't about fixing the flaws I perceive in the world, but, rather, about fixing my lingering bits of resistance to It All.
Which isn't to say I'm passive, callous, or blasé. I'm doing all sorts of stuff! Here I am posting to an Internet chat board! I'm just not trying to aim and amplify my spiritual woo-joo - by releasing it into silence or by any other gambit. I'm just living like normal. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 23 2015 3:39:53 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 3:14:23 PM
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So after posting the above response, I started talking to my grandfather about how much I like the discussions on the AYP forum, and I said: "Yeah, Pop, in terms of Internet forums, AYP is really high caliber." Then he said, chiding me: "Oh really? That must be because you're writing on it." We laughed.
Good to have some countermeasures to keep my spiritual pride in check!  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 4:02:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I'm just not trying to aim and amplify my spiritual woo-joo - by releasing it into silence or by any other gambit.
Samyama (releasing into silence) is not your cup of tea then? That's fine, but bringing this discussion full circle, I find it worthwhile to recommend samyama to KarenVic for dealing with distractions/obstructions, if she feels like she has enough inner silence present.
Your fundamental point about resistance vs. non-resistance is also helpful. In fact, it can be a sutra: resistance. Similarly, it can be posed as a self-inquiry question: How am I resisting What Is?...then release... |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 4:24:48 PM
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"Let your light shine so brightly that others could find there way"
edit find
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Edited by - Charliedog on Mar 24 2015 02:30:20 AM |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 11:34:06 PM
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What a wonderful discussion, I feel so blessed to have the experience of Advanced Yogis to relate to.
I think for me it will be not so much Who is asking, Whos is talking but
feel the Beloved in all,as all,
Sat Nam
KV |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2015 : 10:16:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KarenVic
Hello SolInvictus
Thank you for you lovely note, I appreciate it and will re double my efforts. My Monkey mind has been at it lately, and practice has become something I force myself to do, even though I love it, for some reason lately its a struggle.
Dear Karen,
big thank you should go to Revered Lahiri Baba,as His sadhana derived realizations along with Kriyayogasadhana were passed onto number of his advanced disciples and also penned down in 26 secret diaries.Those two facts made it possible for us today to study His teachings and preform Atmasadhana ie Kriya.
As you might know Gita is telling the story of battle between Kauravas and Pandavas.
"Kuru signifies material attachment i.e. the faculty which induces one to perform bondage-oriented actions and Pandava signifies material detachment i.e. the faculty which weans one from performing
bondage-oriented actions. The conflict between these two has been infinitely continuing within a human being."(Purana Purusha,by Yogacharya Chatterjee)
Thus sadhana is said to be a battle,and battle is "struggle",as you wrote, between two forces.Gita tells us about that;
"Tasmaduttishtha kaunteya yuddhaya kritaniscayah.(Gita- 2/37) —“O Kaunteya,arise confident of your success in the battlefield and wage the battle of sadhana."
What works for me...every time mind tries to pull out some stunt to prevent a sitting,i take step back from that thought and ask my self;who is producing this thought,me or the mind?
Then,answer is always mind,and i just give the middle finger to it,get up and go to "wage the battle of sadhana."
We can't practice sadhana without mind,so at same time it is our enemy and our friend.
Other thought that helps is;life is only fruitful if settlement in Eternal Tranquility is achieved,that is the ultimate goal.It must happen sooner or later,so better sooner than later.Same as each river is destined to merge with sea,each human is destined to return to the Source ie still Prana.Thus,better to get my butt up and do what needs to be done.
Hope this helps,all the best! |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2017 : 3:12:06 PM
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Sol Victus, thank you for your note, I will check out the Revered Lahiri Baba as you suggest. Thank you for these notes on the Struggle, I feel better knowing this is part of the path and not something in me that is lacking. For whatever reason I keep falling into the belief of there is something wrong with me, and this insight in and of itself is very illuminating. An Ego based on self destruction, belief in sin and guilt, just as troublesome as one based on entitlement and elitism. How to get past the judgement of it all and feel the truth of stillness and love, thats the real challenge.
Light and love to you, K ps. sorry it took so long to reply I have not been on the site in a very long time. I feel back into the illusion but seem to be on the road again. |
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Introversion of the senses.
