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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 12:46:50 AM
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Looking for "Oneness" in all the wrong places... Sounds like the title of some "new age" song!
Even though this may already be dead-obvious to anyone reading this, I wanted to share a little epiphany I had during/ after practices today, to help solidify the perspective in my mind as well as for anyone else who goes down the same road in their thinking. Over the last while, I have been thinking a lot about "Oneness", I have heard so much about it from all these spiritual teachers/ books etc. and have wanted to experience it for myself.
This is going to be tough to explain but I am going to try anyway. I realize now that I had done a few things to take myself away from knowing oneness. One, I kept thinking about how I didn't have the awareness of oneness, "why couldn't I perceive it, what do I have to do (answer -> nothing) to see it?" etc. this was a little thought trip I could take over and over and which each time would lead me away from myself. Two, I realize that I had a definition in my mind of what I thought perceiving oneness would be like. I kept thinking of it as "everything" somehow. I don't know if what I thought was important, I just know that I had a picture that was blocking me from letting whatever "Is" just manifest.
My wish was finally answered and I had a brief glimpse today which at first I didn't recognize the full-extent of. It wasn't a profound thing, just the briefest fleeting "oh yeah of course". What I have come to understand from that glimpse is that oneness was hidden in nothingness. I realize this sounds completely meaningless but oh well. From my perspective, the oneness of everything is just being or spirit and that this is the no-thingness or the space that is behind all that we perceive. It was when I stopped trying to see or do or expect and just stayed completely open to anything that I could know nothingness. There are no opposites, it is all one, everything that seems so real around us is the make-believe part, the no-thingness is the truth of what Is.
I don’t know if this makes any sense but feel free to add your perspective.
A |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 05:02:11 AM
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It makes perfect sense, Anthem!
I have exactly the same experience, that "the oneness of everything is just being or spirit and that this is the no-thingness or the space that is behind all that we perceive".
The knowing of this falls over me now and then. Especially when I travel by train or tube I seem to give myself space to fall... When I close my eyes and just go towards the blackness behind my eyes. I feel a tingleling all over my body - I sort of sense the whole body as only a BODY, small shivers and then the deep breathing comes and I just begin to fall into the blackness, the nothingness, and once in a while I am sucked deeply into it and feel I AM spirit - pure love or joy, oneness. There is no separation. Most of the times, though, I stay in some sort of "middle land" where I am totally at ease, not emotional, accepting, but still have my mind controlling things... And as soon as I start DOING things it disappears. The mind takes over. But the memory and knowing of the oneness is there. I know so well it is only my change of perspective that brings me to the truth. The less I resist, the more often these "glimpses" comes. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 07:05:28 AM
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Great, Andrew!
You're coming forward 
quote:
Looking for "Oneness" in all the wrong places...
Or even simpler: "Looking for "Oneness".
You will never "find" it if you continue to look for it. Just like your eye can never see itself. It can spend a whole life looking - the only thing it won't see, is itself. Stop looking alltogether. When you stop looking, the seeing is there. It can't be helped! If you don't look for something - you're bound to see whatever is there! It is the very nature of the eye. Although the eye can't see itself, it can, wonderously enough, perceive the seeing. The seeing can be perceived! The seeing is oneness.
quote:
From my perspective, the oneness of everything is just being or spirit and that this is the no-thingness or the space that is behind all that we perceive.
Yes - and not only that - this space/no-thingness - is what we are. This is all there is. Not only is this "behind" all. It is all. Not like i, over here, perceiving space/no-thingness "behind" everything. No i. Simply space perceiving itself. Knowing itself.
.......*laughing*......
Oneness is not hidden. It is we who hide. Just about all over the place 
Andrew: Thanks for sharing. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 07:19:07 AM
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Keep diving, emc.....
It is obvious you enjoy |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 09:40:50 AM
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What I have come to understand from that glimpse is that oneness was hidden in nothingness.
Yip. We seek it in the forms; it is unconditionally behind them.
Looking for oneness in all the wrong places
This is something I could do some kinds of meditation with. It's a profound sutra, painting a deep picture in so few words.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 12:16:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Looking for "Oneness" in all the wrong places... Sounds like the title of some "new age" song!
Even though this may already be dead-obvious to anyone reading this, I wanted to share a little epiphany I had during/ after practices today, to help solidify the perspective in my mind as well as for anyone else who goes down the same road in their thinking. Over the last while, I have been thinking a lot about "Oneness", I have heard so much about it from all these spiritual teachers/ books etc. and have wanted to experience it for myself.
This is going to be tough to explain but I am going to try anyway. I realize now that I had done a few things to take myself away from knowing oneness. One, I kept thinking about how I didn't have the awareness of oneness, "why couldn't I perceive it, what do I have to do (answer -> nothing) to see it?" etc. this was a little thought trip I could take over and over and which each time would lead me away from myself. Two, I realize that I had a definition in my mind of what I thought perceiving oneness would be like. I kept thinking of it as "everything" somehow. I don't know if what I thought was important, I just know that I had a picture that was blocking me from letting whatever "Is" just manifest.
My wish was finally answered and I had a brief glimpse today which at first I didn't recognize the full-extent of. It wasn't a profound thing, just the briefest fleeting "oh yeah of course". What I have come to understand from that glimpse is that oneness was hidden in nothingness. I realize this sounds completely meaningless but oh well. From my perspective, the oneness of everything is just being or spirit and that this is the no-thingness or the space that is behind all that we perceive. It was when I stopped trying to see or do or expect and just stayed completely open to anything that I could know nothingness. There are no opposites, it is all one, everything that seems so real around us is the make-believe part, the no-thingness is the truth of what Is.
I don’t know if this makes any sense but feel free to add your perspective.
A
Welcome home, brother.
In the new thread I started in the "Gurus & Sages" folder yesterday, on Adyashanti, I saw your comment, indicating that you were positively impressed with his teachings.
Very cool - mostly because a vast majority of what Adya teaches, has to do with .... THIS.
Both the "Big THIS" (manifested reality, and the no-thingness which comprises and contains it, including all thoughts, feelings, subtle planes, "others", and so on -- there is nothing that is not no-thing at its essence -- the "no-thing" you experienced, per your description above), and the "little this" (this topic you raise).
I highly HIGHLY recommend that you check out Emptiness Dancing by Adyashanti -- not at all as a "teacher promotion" thing on my part, but because the dynamic you referenced in, and by, starting this thread, is what the book is _about_ (what's a good way to describe how the no-thing interacts with all this "thingness" - hm ... how about ... "Emptiness Dancing"?).
Q. What does emptiness dancing look like?
A. Like THIS!
Adya often uses the word "obvious" -- it becomes obvious that this is how it is (that no-thingness is reality, all reality - both form and formless - savikalpa and nirvikalpa).
I'm actually running late for work (which is almost funny, per this conversation -- so I'll leave you with a few rapid fire "thoughts for the day") ....
*If you can speak about it, you may be close to it - but that's not it -- as soon as Truth is encapsulated (into words or thoughts), it's no longer Truth. Truth can only be experienced.
*Silence (per AYP meditation) and Ecstatic Bliss (per AYP Spinal Breathing) are two sides of one coin, which ultimately integrates into One -- which is the living, luminous, loving no-thingness.
*Silence is not a dead silence, but a living, luminous silence - an alive silence - that is the no-thing.
*You've followed the trajectory all the way home -- from the illusion of separateness into Oneness into Nothing. In Zen, they call this Awakening. Many paths end there; Zen starts there. Much integration takes places after this -- with the ultimate result being: living in the Awakeness, as the Awakeness.
*As Adyashanti says, the only requirement to move forward from here, is to remind yourself that you've been entirely wrong about everything.
[Jokingly] Adya says, "Enlightenment isn't so much a great achievement - it's more .... embarassing!"
(i.e. "Wow -- I've been totally .... wrong. Cool!"
Peace, Namaste & THIS,
Kirtanman
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 4:17:51 PM
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I just had an experience that I will put in words. Probably not the truth, then.
I watched some videos on Adya's site, read some words from Babaji, and just felt I HAVE to see my partner tonight. It was our "day off" from each other, but I called him and said that it feels as if it is a must to see him tonight. We went to an Indian restaurant and during the dinner we started to joke about the oneness. "Wow, imagine I manifest as a knife!" "Cool, is THIS how I look? A curtain? Haha!" We laughed. And then I turned to him and said - "And imagine... I have manifested my male energy in form of you." And I instantly felt the switch coming, tears in my eyes, breathing, tingeling and KNOWING I was just looking at a male manifestation of myself. I wanted to kiss him and felt "Ah, so this is how I feel when I kiss". I felt the soft skin on his hand and just cried. It was a miracle like sense... Of course... how could abstract love know how it feels if there was no separation? And I loved the separation and manifestation into physical bodies. It was SO beautiful.
It is really strange to try to write it down.
I have gotten "signals" of this from the beginning of our relationship. I have been so annoyed because it has been so clearly disturbing... Many times I have tried to look deep into his eyes, but I haven't managed to do that, because the light has been reflecting the image of my face in his eyes instead. When I have tried in very loving moments to really sink into his eyes, I have only met a picture of myself... Now it is perfectly clear to me what that has been trying to tell me.
PS: And I know I am not very consequent in my choice of words. I am not used to differences of how to use the words "I", "ME" or "MYSELF". I trust you will understand what I mean, and not mark the possible wrong choice of term. |
Edited by - emc on Sep 12 2006 4:51:46 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 7:53:32 PM
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Thanks for the feedback everyone and for the perspectives, it's a great thread!
A
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 02:11:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Thanks for the feedback everyone and for the perspectives, it's a great thread!
A
Ah, it's nothing, really!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 02:42:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
I just had an experience that I will put in words. Probably not the truth, then.
I watched some videos on Adya's site, read some words from Babaji, and just felt I HAVE to see my partner tonight. It was our "day off" from each other, but I called him and said that it feels as if it is a must to see him tonight. We went to an Indian restaurant and during the dinner we started to joke about the oneness. "Wow, imagine I manifest as a knife!" "Cool, is THIS how I look? A curtain? Haha!" We laughed. And then I turned to him and said - "And imagine... I have manifested my male energy in form of you." And I instantly felt the switch coming, tears in my eyes, breathing, tingeling and KNOWING I was just looking at a male manifestation of myself. I wanted to kiss him and felt "Ah, so this is how I feel when I kiss". I felt the soft skin on his hand and just cried. It was a miracle like sense... Of course... how could abstract love know how it feels if there was no separation? And I loved the separation and manifestation into physical bodies. It was SO beautiful.
It is really strange to try to write it down.
I have gotten "signals" of this from the beginning of our relationship. I have been so annoyed because it has been so clearly disturbing... Many times I have tried to look deep into his eyes, but I haven't managed to do that, because the light has been reflecting the image of my face in his eyes instead. When I have tried in very loving moments to really sink into his eyes, I have only met a picture of myself... Now it is perfectly clear to me what that has been trying to tell me.
PS: And I know I am not very consequent in my choice of words. I am not used to differences of how to use the words "I", "ME" or "MYSELF". I trust you will understand what I mean, and not mark the possible wrong choice of term.
Wow - what a beautiful post. Thanks for sharing it with us, EMC.
I just had an experience that I will put in words. Probably not the truth, then.
Yeah, yeah .....
Actually, this post (your story of the Oneness Having Dinner, Dressed as Two Lovers ... ) is a pretty good example of what I meant when I posted the comment about the Truth (aka Reality) not fitting well into words.
As beautiful as your story is, and as resonate as I'm sure most of us are with the spiritual truths to which is points, and the beautiful tenderness it describes -- I can pretty much guarantee you that what I picture in my mind when reading your words, is probably not too similar to what actually happened.
In spirit maybe, but not in form -- but even "closeness in spirit" can be a long way off from Reality -- both the "reality" of Maya (how you and your partner looked, felt, sounded, etc. etc., what the environment was like, the exact energy of the thoughts and emotions, the language, the subtle nuances, and so on -- and actual Reality (the energy of the No-Thing, appearing to oscillate in a certain way).
"What you see as reality, I see as various ways that light weaves itself into dreams."
-- Adyashanti, My Secret is Silence
(Adya's book of "Poetry and Sayings" - any Rumi / Hafiz fans out there will dig it; many others, too, "likely". )
So, it's not a bad or judgemental thing, this "truth can't be expressed" concept .... because, _as_ a concept, it's as untrue as anything else (except actual experience -- which is almost always colored by concepts, experiences, genetics, culture, gender, family history, etc. - so that it's not reality or truth, either).
So where _can_ the truth be found?
Same place as always, right here, right now.
When we let ourselves drop into the Silence, and Open, as you so beautifully describe (in your first post, in this thread) - the oscillations of the mind - all that "color" I speak of, above - quiet down -- and we find that we simply ever remain in the ever new joy of the loving silence that ever is.
(And I probably bobble about on the surface, or near it, as many / most of us do, the majority of most days -- but I am unspeakably grateful for the fact that I can spend at least a few moments each day, realizing Reality. It is an experience so sacred, and for which I am so grateful, that I can't even begin to express how I really feel about it -- especially when I remember how far away from it I thought I was, not at all long ago --- and it was always right here, as the saints and sages have always told us.)
So, per all of this, and per your story -- imagine the confusion, and un-reality (perceptually) that can occur when the phrase, "God is Love" is spoken.
In my experience, that's essentially what we're describing here (experiencing "God is Love") -- but, if a thousand people read those words, you get a thousand different interpretations - even those who enthusiastically express agreement, are having a different experience.
And underneath it all, is the one experience - which is ever the same, absolutely.
As the sage (no clue which one ....) said, "When you see a finger pointing at the moon, look at the moon -- and not the finger."
Nothing Real Can Be Threatened
Nothing Unreal Exists
Herein Lies the Peace of God
-- A Course in Miracles
My humble thanks to all of you, for dancing this dance, with "me", as This.
Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - If you don't hear from me for a couple of days, it's because I'm off being Nothing, oscillating, apparently, in Denver. Back online Friday. Ish.
PPS - Apologies for any typos, or non-sensical statements (more than is usually the case, I mean .... ), I am *way* tired, and looking at <4 hours sleep, if I start a few minutes ago --- so I'm not in proofreading mode, at the moment.
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 03:11:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
"And imagine... I have manifested my male energy in form of you."
Hi emc,
it would be wonderful if the male manifestation of you (your partner)
also realises that you are a female manifestation of him !
Love and Light
Wolfgang |
Edited by - Wolfgang on Sep 13 2006 04:22:26 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 07:46:35 AM
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quote:
the Oneness Having Dinner, Dressed as Two Lovers
Great!!!
Kirtanman, your philosophical comments are interesting. I have had the thought that one of the most troublesome consequence from the minds interpretation of the statement "God is love" is the Teodice-problem: "How can God be both good and allmighty when there is so much evil in the world?" It is such a relief to understand that that "problem" is the biggest joke. =)
Wolfgang,
Yes, it would be wonderful! He is not there yet, but on his way! He has a few wounds left to take care of first. There is much anger, shame and sorrow still blocking. Actually, last weekend he had a major break through. Finally, he dared to go into knowing himself, accepting the pain and facing it. As I read somewhere... "How can you know God if you don't know yourself first?"
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 9:54:03 PM
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I want to share some thoughts that are in the same vein as this thread and which also help me to mentally digest my understanding.
Recent experiences have lead me to realize a little more fully how we leave ourselves. When I say leave ourselves, it is in the mind/ spirit way, leaving our oneness, our beings to find fulfillment elsewhere.
I have come to know intimately that everything I have ever truly wanted has always been right there inside of me despite my tremendous effort to find it elsewhere. To me all this effort comes from an internal basic longing for two things: yearning for love and to physically know pleasure. To me, spirit yields love as this is what it is "made of" and life yields pleasure when it flows unopposed through our bodies. We seek these externally, but they are the very fabric of our existence.
It is ironic that in our attempt to satisfy our basic desires to find love/ pleasure etc. that we look first where it isn’t: outside of ourselves. This is what takes us away from having it. It comes from our false belief that what we seek is located externally in this world that we inhabit. (Hard to blame ourselves when we have these scary emotions lurking under the surface inspiring us to look elsewhere). The truth is that everything we need and want are located within ourselves, we just haven't looked deeply enough and in a sustained enough way to know it yet. Our access to it can also be obscured by our being distracted by our thoughts, beliefs and emotions that float around our insides with us. If we can stare long enough at our being in a sustained enough way without yielding to the many layers of distracting thoughts, we can know this for ourselves.
The good news is, this is in part what meditation trains our minds to do!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 07:02:09 AM
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Anthem, it is so beautifully written! I couldn't agree more.
It brings lots of thoughts to me in association to my present major concern, sexuality. But I will write my thoughts in the tantra section. It is more appropriate, I think. |
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Looking for "Oneness" in all the wrong places...
