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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 6:45:49 PM
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God's Not Dead
Watched this one with my grandparents recently. Opens up a whole can of worms--much of which is ontological speculation that can't really be proven or disproven. However, I found it to be a nudge towards meaningful self-inquiry, especially regarding belief.
What do I believe? Above all, I currently believe that life is unfolding in a pattern that reveals genius, love, and self-regulating mechanisms. Who, or what, designed that pattern is much more mysterious. I don't believe (as the movie suggests) that Jesus Christ died for my sins and will therefore guarantee any salvation in heaven. However, I do believe that Jesus is a good role model, and that his core teachings are invaluably true, if followed properly.
Love thy neighbor as thyself. 
I think I figured out something about hard belief vs. soft belief. I think people (like some of my family) that regard Jesus as their personal savior (and the only son of God) adopt a hard belief. And when that occurs, I'm pretty sure something happens in the neurobiology. More specifically, I think there is a heart clenching--a kind of contraction that sticks. The heart, in a subtle, literal way, tries to grab onto something in the hopes of a guarantee. This is natural enough, since we are surrounded by impermanent things.
But, when I am residing in that still, serene place which requires no grasping, there is no room to view Jesus in some kind of exclusive manner. Actually, there is so much room: for Jesus, for Buddha, for whoever wants to dwell there. So, most of my beliefs are of the soft variety. What is firm, or hard, is my devotion to practices...trying to get closer to the mystery which Jesus seems to be speaking from. And even devotion to practices requires self-pacing (easily favoring), so nothing is set in stone, so to speak.
Just curious to see if anyone has seen the movie, or if there are any contemplative musings on the matter.
P.S. Not trying to get into a theological debate or mock anyone's belief in Jesus. Just relaying some thoughts springing from self-inquiry. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2014 : 02:32:15 AM
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Yes, I saw the movie a couple of weeks ago. I enjoyed it but no, it did not call forth any deeper musings 
I think anyone on the mystical path have what you call soft beliefs. We are flexible, open. AYP has allowed me to regain and deepen my belief in Jesus.
Sey |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2014 : 7:52:48 PM
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Now THAT is some discourse! LMAO! Good times, good times.
I'm going to respond prose-like, to round out the rhetoric.
I awoke today and believed that every physical moment leading to the moment of awakening was real, and therefore had momentum. I believed that this physical world is real, and still do. I believe that to transcend it, I must master it. And to master it, I must align my efforts with maximizing every cell in the body. Once every cell in the body is singing with silence, then the belief has fulfilled its purpose of pushing me to the edge. Until the state of union is achieved, the belief will persist--nagging the mind to inquire, to verify, to find out.
The mind wants to experience, and it needs something to believe in to move towards experience. Experience is derived from a Latin root word meaning to try. To try, to put forth effort, to tangibly feel.
Belief can only be a stepping stone, but it is incomplete without validation. How does it get validated? By experience. So far, my experience in this body has many moments, many colors, many shades of emotion. Of these, there has certainly been felt a deep, deep connection to Jesus. Jesus is real to me because I can sense something eternal in his presence, even though he is portrayed as a historical figure. But I have felt the same kind of kinship with the Buddha Gautama, so I cannot subscribe to any exclusivity being pitched by Christianity.
I believe in John Wilder's inclination: Why not me? And, for that matter, why not us? Even though he is fictional, the inclination is real.
Thank you, Anima, for playing along! Keep on churning out those words, bro. High quality. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2014 : 7:53:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
AYP has allowed me to regain and deepen my belief in Jesus.
Good to hear. Same over here.
Unity. Wisdom. Lightness of Air.  |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2014 : 5:29:52 PM
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Hi,
I saw the movie, and I'm a soft believer, not exclusive. That said, I see value in exclusivity for those who go that way. Yogis do it too. As I recall, a famous yogi who I shall not name claimed to be the one and only, and he expected his disciples to see it that way.
As I see it believing in Jesus, when it works the way it was intended, softens and opens hearts, brings out loving kindness. Believing is trusting that another knows best until that day when one "sees", if such a day comes. The need to trust that someone knows better seems to be part of the human condition, a necessary part IMHO. One could do a lot worse than Jesus.
Namaste,
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2014 : 5:46:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
As I see it believing in Jesus, when it works the way it was intended, softens and opens hearts, brings out loving kindness. Believing is trusting that another knows best until that day when one "sees", if such a day comes. The need to trust that someone knows better seems to be part of the human condition, a necessary part IMHO. One could do a lot worse than Jesus.
Very well said. I think that's spot on. Jesus being kind of like training wheels.
It would be nice to find Jesus in the cosmos. I will keep seeking him in inner space...to determine whether he is more than an archetype, and still a living presence.  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2014 : 01:33:48 AM
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Hey BT
Jesus is very much alive. When I say my knowledge of Him has deepened it's not just that I now 'get' what he was preaching but rather because I have had a couple of mystical experiences involving him. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was settling down for bed when my central channel started glowing brighter and brighter, drawing my inner gaze. Out of the brilliant light steps a Light Being. His face slowly forms that of Jesus. He silently looks at me with love and compassion before dissolving. I acknowledged the honour and grace bestowed upon my humble self. It all happened in a short time. No words exchanged just an out-pour of Divine love.
But is he the only one? Definitely no.
Sey
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2014 : 09:13:25 AM
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Hi Bodhi,
Jesus definitely exists, is available and can take one all the way.
The following is from the the book The Secret Surpreme by Swami Lakshmanjoo. Rather than a mystical Christian view, it describes the Kashmir Shaivism perspective of the highest form of grace given by Shiva to individuals who follow the path.
I hope you will find it as interesting as I did...
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In the kingdom of spirituality. Lord Siva creates masters and disciples through His fifth act, the act of grace (anugraha). This grace is ninefold and, therefore. He creates masters and disciples in nine different ways.
The first and highest level of grace is called tivrativra sak-tipata. Tivrativra saktipata means "super supreme grace." When Lord Siva bestows super supreme grace on anyone, then that person becomes perfectly self-recognized. He knows his real nature completely and in perfection. At the same time, however, this kind of intense grace can not be resisted by his body, so he throws away his body and dies. This person becomes a master; however, he accomplishes the act of his mastery secretly in the deserving hearts of disciples. He is not visible in this world. Only those who are deserving experience his subtle existence.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2014 : 7:01:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Jesus is very much alive. When I say my knowledge of Him has deepened it's not just that I now 'get' what he was preaching but rather because I have had a couple of mystical experiences involving him. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was settling down for bed when my central channel started glowing brighter and brighter, drawing my inner gaze. Out of the brilliant light steps a Light Being. His face slowly forms that of Jesus. He silently looks at me with love and compassion before dissolving. I acknowledged the honour and grace bestowed upon my humble self. It all happened in a short time. No words exchanged just an out-pour of Divine love.
Well, there you go. Bing, bang, boom. Alive and well. Thank you for sharing the vision! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2014 : 7:10:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
In the kingdom of spirituality. Lord Siva creates masters and disciples through His fifth act, the act of grace (anugraha). This grace is ninefold and, therefore. He creates masters and disciples in nine different ways.
Makes me think of the Gospel quote: In my Father's house, there are many mansions. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2014 : 7:14:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anima Deorum
Bodhi, don't know if you caught it, but the teacher in that movie (Kevin Sorbo) used to play Hercules on TV in the late 90s. He even teamed up with Zena on occasion. Totally cheesy! But he was Hercules, and I therefor liked the show.
Well, he did a fine job playing the atheist role. He also played an intellectual snob with a certain kind of machismo, so that makes sense he was Hercules! In the end, he saw the light and went to Jesus (literally as he was dying). Thanks for the connection. |
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God's Not Dead
