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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 09:26:17 AM
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Maybe I've loosened identification with the body, but it's still here. Maybe I've shifted into witnessing my mind through meditation and stillness, but my mind still runs on. Maybe I've been dreaming grandiose dreams about enlightenment, but at night, I still dream about crazy scenarios and absurd imaginings.
What I'm getting at is that just because I've developed a better spiritual vocabulary, engaged in daily spiritual practices, and hung out with spiritually-inclined people, doesn't mean that the realness of my human matrix has disappeared. The realness of the nitty-gritty details of navigating relationships, challenges, and shadows remains. And the physicality of the world keeps it real and reminds me of the presence of Now.
I've noticed a tendency to stray from REALNESS when I get lost in too much abstraction, too much spiritual idealism, or too much non-identification. These are all pitfalls Yogani has mentioned in the lessons.
Has anyone else noticed that pinning a spiritual label on oneself can lead to a diversion from realness? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 09:39:36 AM
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I have, but you may know that already since I've been pretty vocal about it here at the forums and especially vocal about it on the podcast.
Being "spiritual" doesn't (necessarily) mean putting a Namaste sticker on your bumper and doing so can in some cases just be a transference of identification. It was for me.
Love,
Carson  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 4:00:28 PM
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| Thank you, Carson. I was contemplating getting both Jesus and Buddha tattooed on my chest. Perhaps I should reconsider. Maybe a stripper would be more appropriate to de-spiritualize my identity and keep it real. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 4:03:35 PM
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That's what I would do.  
P.S. I have a stripper tattooed on my left leg.  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 4:47:38 PM
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| Awesome. The divine feminine merges with the secular and profane. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 8:33:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Maybe I've loosened identification with the body, but it's still here. Maybe I've shifted into witnessing my mind through meditation and stillness, but my mind still runs on. Maybe I've been dreaming grandiose dreams about enlightenment, but at night, I still dream about crazy scenarios and absurd imaginings.
What I'm getting at is that just because I've developed a better spiritual vocabulary, engaged in daily spiritual practices, and hung out with spiritually-inclined people, doesn't mean that the realness of my human matrix has disappeared. The realness of the nitty-gritty details of navigating relationships, challenges, and shadows remains. And the physicality of the world keeps it real and reminds me of the presence of Now.
I've noticed a tendency to stray from REALNESS when I get lost in too much abstraction, too much spiritual idealism, or too much non-identification. These are all pitfalls Yogani has mentioned in the lessons.
Has anyone else noticed that pinning a spiritual label on oneself can lead to a diversion from realness?
Hi Bodhi,
What you call diversion from realness is what I understand as discordance. There is a vast chasm between awakening and awakening at a deep cellular level. And at this point, the conclusion I've arrived at is that until awakening happens at that deep level where there is no discordance, it is all probably another mind made construct, yet another false belief of having arrived. One need look at the lives of self-proclaimed "awakened" folks to see that huge chasm and the pitfalls of such proclamations.
Ultimately, it does not matter what one experiences in meditation, how long one has been meditating or has been "spiritual", if one has routine "transcendental" states, is operating from chakra #33 or level #45 or is able to time travel, shapeshift or commune with Jesus/Buddha/Krishna. What matters is how life is lived in this moment - without conflict (within and without), without polarizing desires or aversions, without pretentiousness, being at peace with whatever arises, being healthy and wholesome in mind and body, with service that just flows through to where it is needed. Living in such deep harmony results in "realness" and "spiritual" being one and the same.
I used to always wonder why Krishna says in the Gita that enlightenment happens to the rare few. It has become increasingly clear why.
Love to you.   |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 11:17:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Maybe I've loosened identification with the body, but it's still here. Maybe I've shifted into witnessing my mind through meditation and stillness, but my mind still runs on. Maybe I've been dreaming grandiose dreams about enlightenment, but at night, I still dream about crazy scenarios and absurd imaginings.
What I'm getting at is that just because I've developed a better spiritual vocabulary, engaged in daily spiritual practices, and hung out with spiritually-inclined people, doesn't mean that the realness of my human matrix has disappeared. The realness of the nitty-gritty details of navigating relationships, challenges, and shadows remains. And the physicality of the world keeps it real and reminds me of the presence of Now.
I've noticed a tendency to stray from REALNESS when I get lost in too much abstraction, too much spiritual idealism, or too much non-identification. These are all pitfalls Yogani has mentioned in the lessons.
Has anyone else noticed that pinning a spiritual label on oneself can lead to a diversion from realness?
yep, been there, done that! I would assume it is probably a common experience on the spiritual path. You can observe a lot of this kind of behavior among New Agers, which I was in my youth when I experienced it myself.
There's a commonly held - and completely false - idea that "spirituality" or "enlightenment" consists of being "super positive" and "nicey-nice," "airy-faerie," having no personality, passion or personal preferences, no worldly interests, no conflicts or disturbances of any kind - in short, no longer being human, but a sort of angelic abstraction. And people try so hard to live up to that label, believing that someday, in the far off future when we become "enlightened" that's how it will be.
But, as Yogani has pointed out, it's a pitfall. And having had the opportunity to hang out with several genuine yogic masters in my life, I must say that NONE of them were like that. All the masters I've ever had the privilege to meet were incredibly human, natural and down to earth, with a great sense of humor, often even ornery or naughty! LOVE and Grace pours through them, but otherwise they seem quite human and in fact, totally comfortable with being human.
In addition to satsang with such blessed souls, what has helped me get past that "phase" has been, quite frankly, being repeatedly bitten in the ass by so-called "reality" and worn down by life in this material world to the point where eventually I just gave up! I was too busy putting out fires to keep up the pretense. At first I felt really bad, like I was a quitter, but then I got over myself and let it go. That's Divine Grace in action in and through our worldly circumstances. Isn't it wonderful?! 
What a huge relief. It's so much nicer not feeling obliged to live up to such an unobtainable - and, IMO, completely undesirable - ideal.
BTW, Bodhi, you have NEVER come across in that manner during the time I've interacted with you. My impression of your spirituality has always been very warm, down to earth and genuine. |
Edited by - Radharani on Jan 25 2014 4:24:08 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 12:10:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Ultimately, it does not matter what one experiences in meditation, how long one has been meditating or has been "spiritual", if one has routine "transcendental" states, is operating from chakra #33 or level #45 or is able to time travel, shapeshift or commune with Jesus/Buddha/Krishna. What matters is how life is lived in this moment - without conflict (within and without), without polarizing desires or aversions, without pretentiousness, being at peace with whatever arises, being healthy and wholesome in mind and body, with service that just flows through to where it is needed. Living in such deep harmony results in "realness" and "spiritual" being one and the same.
Well said. Your first little quip about chakras and levels got me laughing, for sure. Makes me think of Yogani's caution to not get lost "under the hood". Keep it simple, right?
However, just to explore the notion of conflict, or discordance, I do believe one can be engaged in an external conflict and still be quite at peace within. For instance, someone like Gandhi, who was engaged in non-violent conflict with colonial oppression, was most likely at peace in his core. Maybe angry and frustrated on the surface, but serene underneath.
In my own life, I've been in heated arguments with my family, but there has been a mountainous equanimity that's present beneath the shallow friction. Very important to recognize the multi-layered nature of reality. Otherwise, it becomes too "blah". Blah-blah-blah nullification and abstraction.
Anyway, thanks for chiming in, and keeping it real in the 'hood. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 12:22:28 AM
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@Radharani
Ditto! Lots of resonance reverberating in your post. It's very reassuring to read about your experience with seasoned yogis, and to know they had idiosyncrasies, which are surely a sign of authenticity (I would say).
I enjoy the texture of your language as well, and I still have hopes for thd Florida retreat. Once I get my personal/professional act in order, I will be in a position to contribute and help organize. I know you are willing to collaborate.
Keep on rockin' in the free world. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2014 : 4:28:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
@Radharani
Ditto! Lots of resonance reverberating in your post. It's very reassuring to read about your experience with seasoned yogis, and to know they had idiosyncrasies, which are surely a sign of authenticity (I would say).
I enjoy the texture of your language as well, and I still have hopes for thd Florida retreat. Once I get my personal/professional act in order, I will be in a position to contribute and help organize. I know you are willing to collaborate.
Keep on rockin' in the free world.
yes! I don't know how much I will realistically be able to contribute to the retreat, the way things are going, but please keep me posted, it would be great if we could do that. rock on, bro. |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2014 : 4:32:19 PM
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I think this is why my last relationship failed. I had become such a boring person, never getting angry, never letting things get stirred up, always trying to be quiet and at peace. And I succeeded magnificently - and thus all life was lost.
Now I'm working on developing my ability to feel anger and getting worked up about things. I've never felt anger before, probably because I've been unconsciously repressing it. Now when the neighbours make loud noises at 1 AM I'm starting to get some semblances of rage and irrational anger, and I'm enjoying these immensely. |
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Giacomo
78 Posts |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2014 : 1:08:00 PM
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| Long live Yoda...a true master. |
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Giacomo
78 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 2:55:30 PM
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| The greatest! |
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NewbieGG
Bulgaria
52 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 05:15:38 AM
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This is such an important topic and i am really surprised that just a few people joined it . The main mental issue for me is that i feel no longer normal . The normal people are ignorant and the world is fake but they live perfectly fine in their ignorance and everything is real for them . To be honest with you start envy them and the old me who knew nothing :) The best answer which coming to my head is that I can live the same life as before in the same manner as before with the only difference that now i know. On the other hand it is not easy to live midst people who has no idea what is happening with you and there is no one you can talk with ... May be the only way is to find a community of people like me
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 06:26:03 AM
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That is the way. Find people locally who are into the same things as you. I have found some. Still looking for more. The more, the merrier.
Recently I was watching a YouTube of Sadhguru, and he basically said: "Ignorance is not bliss." To know about the world, to know about the Self--this is bliss. But I'm also reminded of something Yogani said, which is: There is more that we don't know than what we know. So, we are not running out of options here. If anything, the challenge for me has been picking a few areas of concentration to narrow my focus a little bit. This is the only way to achieve depth, and in depth, there is liberation. Otherwise, it's just wandering and dabbling.
There are times when I am coming out of meditation, and I realize I have accumulated plenty of knowledge and experience, but I laugh, because there is that sense that it's still just a drop in the bucket. A very small grain of sand in a vast desert. The only relief, or contentment, is residing in a place that is not dependent on accumulated knowledge. That place is timeless tranquility.
Thank you for touching upon this topic again. Let's build the network!  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 06:39:07 AM
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| P.S. I remember another helpful hint. There is a difference between "knowing about" and "knowing". Knowing about is usually a secondhand knowledge, like reading something in a book. Knowing is more of a direct experience. Therefore, to "know thyself", or Self, is very personal and intimate, because it goes beyond the layer of memorized data. That's why I like poetry and music, because of the subjectivity and personalization imbued in the language and vibration. It's not factual proof; it's the fiber of Being being relayed in a spontaneous way that reveals the aliveness of the Eternal Now. |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 10:33:17 AM
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Dear Bodhi: We are on such a wavelength!
I walked over a bridge one morning. A word came to me: "thought." A single leaf fell into the river's stream. There it went.
I walked over a bridge this morning. I put my hands over the river to feel it. I turned around before leaving. A blue heron waded in the cool shallows.
I played my flute on a rock.
Live. |
Edited by - Anima on Oct 13 2014 11:01:54 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 1:01:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NewbieGG
This is such an important topic and I am really surprised that just a few people joined it .
Don't you worry GG, we are reading. If the things that are to be said are being said, then some of us may keep quiet. But it is a good thread and I for one have been nodding along |
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NewbieGG
Bulgaria
52 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 4:09:22 PM
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| Both Kami and Radharni very helpful replies !!! It is really amazing how a very confused mind can be put in order just by few right words . Not trying to be saint , cosmic entity or the next Buddha is working just fine for me :) . What else is working for me is let go the idea that there is anything secure !!! Dalai Lama said the he meditates on death every single day :) Trying to accept that nothing is safe and i can die tomorrow or after 5 minutes make me feel free and enthusiastic to live just for the day and laugh on my pity worries :) |
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Zanyan
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 6:32:23 PM
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Hi NewbieGG,
Yes, Kami and Radharani had beautiful posts to share here.
Something you mentioned in your post prompted me to reply. I think the sense of you having woken up to a new vision of what it means to be while everyone around you seems to be still asleep is a real experience that most of us go through along the way. It's O.K. to see that, notice it. I think its a normal aspect of awakening to Self. The issue comes up, and you may have already seen this, when we start to attach to feelings and thoughts of being somehow superior to others because we see and understand and know things that they do not seem to (not saying you are doing this, speaking from past experience here). That is the trap, and it's a trap that many fall into, even venerated teachers. It's not bad to fall into the trap, necessarily. It's just another experience after all, but it can be beneficial to you and all beings to see the trap for what it is, understand that it's just a stage on the journey of awakening, and leave it at that. Which is my point after all: if you allow it to be, and don't become attached to the story of it, it is just a stage and it too will pass.
Once that stage passes, you will see that, though in a very real sense you have to walk this journey alone, there are billions of other beings who are available to love.
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2014 : 6:56:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanyan
Hi NewbieGG,
Yes, Kami and Radharani had beautiful posts to share here.
Something you mentioned in your post prompted me to reply. I think the sense of you having woken up to a new vision of what it means to be while everyone around you seems to be still asleep is a real experience that most of us go through along the way. It's O.K. to see that, notice it. I think its a normal aspect of awakening to Self. The issue comes up, and you may have already seen this, when we start to attach to feelings and thoughts of being somehow superior to others because we see and understand and know things that they do not seem to (not saying you are doing this, speaking from past experience here). That is the trap, and it's a trap that many fall into, even venerated teachers. It's not bad to fall into the trap, necessarily. It's just another experience after all, but it can be beneficial to you and all beings to see the trap for what it is, understand that it's just a stage on the journey of awakening, and leave it at that. Which is my point after all: if you allow it to be, and don't become attached to the story of it, it is just a stage and it too will pass.
Once that stage passes, you will see that, though in a very real sense you have to walk this journey alone, there are billions of other beings who are available to love.
Beautiful reply, Zanyan |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2014 : 09:38:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanyan
when we start to attach to feelings and thoughts of being somehow superior to others because we see and understand and know things that they do not seem to
Finding reasons to feel superior/special is a difficult tendency to uproot - the flip-side of our insecurities perhaps? When we come to accept and love ourselves just the way we are, maybe the need to prove our worthiness/superiority simply disappears. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Oct 15 2014 3:31:56 PM |
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Zanyan
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2014 : 2:11:46 PM
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thank you, lalow33
quote:
Finding reasons to feel superior/special is difficult tendency to uproot - the flip-side of our insecurities perhaps? When we come to accept and love ourselves just the way we are, maybe the need to prove our worthiness/superiority simply disappears.
Like all tendencies, they quite literally become absorbed by and into the Divine Self. |
Edited by - Zanyan on Oct 15 2014 4:04:51 PM |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2014 : 01:22:59 AM
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Hey Bodhi,guys..
Others left some great thoughts in this thread.I would just add someone very dear as a great example of balance between being real person and Yogi extraordinaire.
Yogiraj Shama Churun Lahiri Mahasaya was such person.Although he reached very pinnacle of Kriyayogasadhana,he liked to enjoy a hooka in afternoons.Although he was destined to be the pole star of Kriya,he was married and had 5 children.Although he was Guru and private tutor for some Maharajas and Nepali royal family,he would still initiate postmans,milkmans,Muslims,Christians,Dalits or any other cast,without making any difference between people.
From stuff like that one can see that although he was highly spiritual,he was also very real person,dealing daily with a life of an householder AND Yogi of the highest order.
If you would be interested in more details from Baba's life,i would really recommend a book,Purana Purusha by Yogacharya Ashoke Chatterjee.Being a spiritual biography of Baba,it gives unique perspective on details from Baba's everyday life and also precious details in regard Sadhana.Lot about being spiritual and real at same time can be learned from example set by this Purana Purusha.
All the best! |
Edited by - Sol Invictus on Oct 17 2014 02:09:05 AM |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
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Realness and Spirituality
