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Holy
796 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 6:45:53 PM
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quote:
What exactly is the difference between Gurunath's Kriya and that of Hans? Are there differences only in the Kriya Pranayama, while the other techniques are the same?
Hi Andrew75, sry it took some time, so here the answers: Hans kriya as far as I can understand is the same as what Asho teaches except one difference, there is no guru pranam in it. Hans was one oh those, I do not know from where he learned the kriya of Lahiri, but after having reached repeated nirvkalpa samadhi Lahiri appeared before him and said from now on God is your guru. He insists since that no physical guru is needed and that it is even better to directly commune with god by the power of extended kriya pranayama. But he also supports all those who practice the kriya as learned by his site www.kriyayoga.com and we also had conversations along the years. He recently said, that he will help all those sincere practitioners for all eternity, a statement with authority, but again focusedly pointed out to be in direct contact to god aka the one source.
Gurunath's kriya as he himself in some earlier youtube vids also explains is a simplified kriya yoga, being similiar to Yogananda's kriya (not the one from SRF, but the one Yogananda taught in India), but also being more advanced. In short, where Hans uses a lot of mantra, Gurunath uses a lot of breath. E.g. navi kriya with Hans has no breath at all, only mantra en masse, while Gurunath's navi uses breath only and mantra just for counting the correct ratio. The same goes for maha mudra. While Hans kriya pranayama is mantra + breath, Gurunath seperated them into two techniques. Other differences are, Hans focuses on kutastha in the final meditation part, Gurunath on the crown. I think Gurunath has taken some elements and insights from Hari, as he also practiced under him and under Satyananda. You can download and see yourself how Hans kriya is, I wanted to nitroduce him aswell here, but life had other plans so far, some things didn't happen, but lets see :)quote:
Also, is it not true that Gurunath's Navi Kriya can also be learned from one of his Kriya Acharyas?
At least in two countries I'm not aware of anyone, but perhaps in the USA or somewhere else there might be some. I'm sure at some point his most advanced students, aka realized ones will start to give the full techniques including the higher kriyas like thokar etc.quote:
Planned breath retention:
The instruction I was given by Atmavidyananda was a brief pause after each exhalation and inhalation where an when you both know. I was also told to increase this gradually and reside within the silence there and observe the triple divine qualities in each center.
It is the same instruction as Manga did give.quote:
KYI and lower centers not being addressed. They most certainy do address the lower centers but in a way that you might not be adjusted to yet, give it some time after the first year it will be more apparant, perhaps?
Hi EK, they are adressed, e.g. much more than AYP adresses them. That statement was just in relation to he other kriya variants, but all in all the chakras are adressed very much in KYI, only the other kriyas do in relation adress them more. More is not always better, it depends on the overall effect. If you give more adressing to the lower chakras within KYI, the whole thing becomes too much. If you add more crown adressing in Gurunath's kriya, it becomes too much. So at some point a compromise is obviously needed. If you add crown to Hans kriya, then it will be a very fast end to practicing for sure :P Outch :Pquote:
I have to agree with you regarding the mantra. Now that I think about it, chanting one never really did much. But listening to that deep low frequency sound/vibration is a completely different story. I'll have to try and deepen the awareness and move it to the appropriate chakras.
Hi Bob, have tried it out with mantra, but all in all I had better results as you with listening to the OM there (also as overall taught in KYI kriya). It is true, that Yogeshwarananda pointed out the tripple devine qualities more than e.g. Manga. She did it, but not repeatedly as Yogeshwarananda did.
Regarding mudras and bandhas while KYI maha mudra, they also happen here out of themselves. Also while KYI pranayama uddiyana does happen a lot, also some mula bandha here and there as pranically needed.
@NoDogma
yes Ashok from vedickriya, the one Will Power went to :)
@Andrew75
regarding those webpages, OMG, I do think it is just a matter of time till all kriya variants and their techniquescan be seen in full detail on the web. What is interesting to see is, that people take these techniques and label them with other fancy names like AUM Lvee Pranayama and there you have a new system without any realized practitioner behind it. What I like with Yogani and AYP is, he also took from different sources, but at least practiced it through and with authority can give all these great lessons and insights.
Some more general info on the topic, KYI do have 6 kriyas. Yogeshwarananda's kriya also had 6 kriyas. I do not know, but have a feeling, that the higher the kriy, the more similiar or the same they will be in both Yogeshwarananda's and KYI's kriya. Swami Nityananda's book also gives hints, his kriya is again somethign else :P But most probably his second and third kriya may be the route Yogeshwarananda and KYI will head to aswell.
Peace and happy new practice year :P |
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 3:36:01 PM
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| Thank you Holy. Very informative and very detailed reply. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 7:32:41 PM
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Hi all,
very soon I will meet this lady again :) Also some of the other calibers, like Peter and Atmavidyananda. Crown paradise is calling (8[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
Wish you all the best and
happy practice! |
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orangesky
Germany
39 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2014 : 12:58:54 PM
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Hello Holy,
have fun there!!! I expect one of your awesome experience reports again ;) |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2014 : 5:15:13 PM
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Holy your experience reports are so inspiring to me...thanks.
Blessings to your Satsang with her.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2014 : 5:53:48 PM
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Hi orangesky,
thanks very much, report is online :)
@BillinL.A,
also thanks, you are very much welcome! :) |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2016 : 8:07:39 PM
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Hi all,
as life happens here, Mangalananda comes by from time to time, visiting her sister who lives close to me, offering group meditations for free. This gathering also happens here twice per month without Manga. But only some times per year am I able to attend and get the crown rememberance ;)
Today we had a small but nice gathering. Mainly women at younger to mid ages. To my feel Manga and her sister are somwhere around 45. Although am into classic kriya, I like this group very much and Manga still is capable of showing me new things in regards to the crown.
Before starting with the meditation, she mentioned that the lower chakras seem to give a reason to stay there, but there is noone holding you from going up she added. And right she is, with the right approach, going up is always possible independent of the remaining karmas in the lower centers.
The meditation was short but as always very nice and made me enter into the crown dimension with great depth one more time. With senses active, everything is completely transformed and transported to a different perception, nonduality in utmost refinement, godliness everywhere, It is hard not to love it :P The capability of becoming ultimately still is among the domains of the crown, as is freedom, joy and the opening of all doors. Grace and love is your being.
It was very funny and sweet to observe both sisters loughing reason free, the joy of the crown.
Still one thing to mention from this times observation: the ever present, the ever still is the ground in which even the crown dimension can beautifully expand upon. Therefore even the crown is still something within the ever present, at least that part of the crown that relates to the moving universe. It is for shure a door to discover and dissolve into the ever present too. It is the magic bridge refining the life force and perception to such a degree, that the unity of all becomes directly visible. Hari's kriya cannot be praised enough for making it possible to open the crown so easily.
Greetings and love to all and happy practice  |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2016 : 10:50:06 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2016 : 12:44:15 AM
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The last post is nearly three years after the posts before it, so since then a lot of things have happend and many more insights have come up :) Just to connect the different threads better, this conversation which reports of the crown chakra and the various after effects of kriya practice was happening in parallel to the thread's beginning with Mangalananda: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=13635 .
After reading my own akashic writing :P in Yogani's forum about the crown experiences, it is very interesting to note, that those deep crown experiences were happening problem free, but due to reasons of better life flow, the main approach here has continued as classic 6 chakras kriya. And to the suprise here, the last event with Mangalananda showed, that the crown was ready then (3 years ago) as it is now. So why all the wait for the crown?
Looking at it right now, it seems like there is a threshhold in relation to the first 6 chakras. If that threshold is passed, means if sufficient work has been done down there, at some point it is up to you! You can keep doing the work down there, as it is near unending :P The transformation can keep going, but also the transcendence and nnoduality up there is possible whenever you like.
Keeping the work below will continue to transform both the body-mind and the flow of life in godliest ways, slowly but shurely progressing into dissolution in the crown. But at the same time, it is obviously always possible to just leave it as it is and directly merge into nonduality and freedom from all the process by means of going up.
Manga spoke of the cloud 7 and the illusion of believing that you have to do something below it to be allowed to go to cloud 7. Looking into the body-mind here, asking this question to myself, the only thing I can see are remaining whishes/concepts in regards to the 6 chakras, like doing this in life first, then and only then it is ok... Do any of you have this aswell? Or what is the reason for you to holding back from dissolving into nonduality? And is it really doing so or do you want to be hold back by it (for whatever reasons, like perhaps fear of the unknown up there)?
Whoever reads this, your comments would be welcome to read! :)
Peace and happy practice! :) |
Edited by - Holy on May 24 2016 01:31:26 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2016 : 02:38:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy
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...So why all the wait for the crown?...
Manga spoke of the cloud 7 and the illusion of believing that you have to do something below it to be allowed to go to cloud 7. Looking into the body-mind here, asking this question to myself, the only thing I can see are remaining whishes/concepts in regards to the 6 chakras, like doing this in life first, then and only then it is ok... Do any of you have this aswell? Or what is the reason for you to holding back from dissolving into nonduality? And is it really doing so or do you want to be hold back by it (for whatever reasons, like perhaps fear of the unknown up there)?
Dear Holy,
I have been asking about this on AYP Plus - Penetrating the crown /Dissolving the Witness in Unity (Lesson 333). I certainly want to. I feel ready / on the brink so to speak - but it is not happening. At least not in the way some describe as a specific recognizable event. Yogani says it will happen once I stop desiring it and yet we have to desire it - "desire-less desire" as Gurunath calls it. I take it as a final act of Grace. It will happen when it will happen. Or.. and I'm beginning to suspect this, it is a slow integration that can happen without any fanfare of an (reportedly glorious but unstable) event(s).
And it is very likely I have no idea what I'm talking about 
Sey
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2016 : 5:28:17 PM
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Dear Sey,
thanks for the post :) Have reread lesson 333 and all the crown lessons. And I couldn't find any info of Yogani in regards to "AYP Plus - Penetrating the crown /Dissolving the Witness in Unity (Lesson 333)". So far the nonduality discovery of the crown here has been something new for me which I had not read about in this way. Are there new lessons (or additions) in this regard in the plus forum?
Coming back to AYP classic lesson 333 (if it differs from the plus lesson), there is no direct relation to the crown and nonduality. Also the other lessons do not mention this relation. You can also feel yourself one with all you perceive by means of the witness penetrating all time and matter and becoming one with it. It is what is happening with classic kriya, shurely with AYP too. There are also different types of nonduality, very much depending upon the degree of perception. If the perception is physical only, nonduality will be limited to physicality. If perception refines to subtler dimensions, nonduality also does. The crown is supreme refinement, accordingly the nonduality.
Coming back to the question, it was more about nonduality by means of the crown which is obviously availabe today if you like. It is not a matter of final grace, nor something that has to do with a mental attitude. It is just a matter of collecting prana and concentrating it in the crown. Thats all. Nothing else to do and nothing else to wait for. Shurely we are speaking from the standpoint, that the body-mind has been purified enough to handle it. But you can remain in the purified body-mind for too long without the nonduality of the crown coming into your life, the only reason being non-adressing or in another word, ignoring this possibility. At least this is what Mangalananda was hinting at me, very much touching that part of me which wants to super-transform the body-mind in ways Gurunath has done for the benefit of all :P But yeah, the crown says, don't forget me, or even more so, why do you not come up? :)
The way you are looking at nonduality is once and for all nonduality. The no return nonduality. Or in other words, having prepared everything in such a way that the first nonduality is the final one. The question is, which nonduality are you refering to, the one encompassing the whole universe or the one that encompasses as much as you can perceive? For the latter one, such wait is not required, but the former one is something can't speak about so far. The nonduality mentioned here, does only go as far as the perception goes, both in terms of gross to subtle and in terms of scale (meters, kilometers). Then there is also the infinitely bigger mysterious transcendental side of nonduality. All of this can be accessed in few hours or days by meeting the requirements of the crown in a group setting. Or some days, weeks, maximum few months if you do it by yourself (going by the prerequisite of having done enough for the body-mind by daily practice that has already occured).
The super nonduality which encompasses all to the eternal infinity, that also comes and goes thousands of times according to the kriya yogis until one completely dissolves into it by means of exhausting even past life karmas. The first entrance to that, as you'd say desireless-desire or just being, yeah the reports of that are few on the net :) May it increase more :D
Manga's statement still remains.. :P More comments are welcome! :)
Happy practice friends! :D |
Edited by - Holy on May 24 2016 6:25:15 PM |
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sunyata
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2016 : 7:31:35 PM
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Hi Holy,
Yes, AYP plus has many lesson additions. We have discussed this in various threads in plus.
Firstly, I have been reading your posts for years and they are truly divine. You could write about doing laundry and it would still sound divine.
I have discussed my awakening in several threads so I won't bore you with those details. The dissolution happened here through grace- no formal spiritual practices. As far as I can remember, I have always questioned the nature of existence, who am I? what am I doing here? I practiced my own form of self inquiry.
Looking back, I had unity experiences growing up. I would think of ecstatic bliss and it would arise in the body. I know you are a dedicated Kriya practitioner and I hear a lot of Kriya gurus with their last name as "Giri". My maternal side is “Giri”. If you know anything about the eastern last names, Giri or sanyasi is the last name given to monks. So I was blessed to born in that lineage. May be I practiced Kriya in my past lives. May be it was the blessing of my ancestors. Who knows, none of it matters.
During the awakening, I had visitation from various ascended kriya masters, having never practiced . You know went through various experiences. I would have whole body orgasms. I could induce it by just thinking about it- no need for all the mudras, energy flowing through me to people. I would ask for some deities to reveal themselves and they would. I would wish for something and it would show up. I would visit other realms and so on.
You know all the fanfare. With all these experience, one thing I noticed- that I still needed to do the dishes, pay bills and be here.
Then one afternoon, I was sitting on the couch- my spine was readjusted, both sides of the brain readjusted and poof the “I” was gone- non duality. When you have this experience the mind is totally annihilated. Basically the intellect is not there to say –“oh yes this is Level A of non duality and now I need to get to Level B”. It is dissolution- one with creation.
One can read about this and debate till the cows come home. The actual experience changes everything and the actual journey begins.
Not to sound arrogant- I see all these Gurus sitting on the pedestal and the followers bowing down to their feet and chasing them. I just don’t get it. How can you see the nature of reality and sit there on the pedestal like a celebrity. This experience makes you humble because you know no one is better than anyone. We are “One”. Why does everything need to be so secret? I can see the misuse of the knowledge and the need to protect certain practices. But it should not cost hundreds of dollars to get the next mantra or the next kriya.
It took 4-5 years to integrate everything, since it was spontaneous and I had to work on the lower chakras. I think people who have been practicing for years will have a smoother transition. I feel working on the lower chakras and then opening the crown is the best way as Yogani emphasizes. IMHO, Yogani is "It" when it comes to gurus.
No, I’m not done. I practice every day. The openings, integration and learning continues. I can’t imagine the rise of more “Joy” in years to come. The past six years have been amazing.
Hope this helps a little. Sorry if I went on a tangent or off topic.
I think this is enough ~tooting my own horn today.
Sunyata
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Edited by - sunyata on May 24 2016 8:11:37 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 07:53:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy
Coming back to AYP classic lesson 333 (if it differs from the plus lesson), there is no direct relation to the crown and nonduality.
Perhaps therein lies my confusion and ignorance of the matter. You see, hearing talk of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (am I right to assume this would involve the transcendental Oneness with the whole universe?), I understood it that one must have penetrated the crown chakra and the more often one gets in and out of this state, until it stabilizes, the better and this is what is needed to gain stable 24/7 nonduality.
Lesson 333 says no need for all that but it is a matter of dissolving the Witness in Unity
From Lesson 333
quote:
Even the witness condition itself is a state of separation. Not more separated than we have always been, but with much greater awareness of it, because our divine Self is now known in the witness condition. And then there is everything else which we are yet to experience to be within our own Self. The duality will become unity. The witness gives us great unifying power to promote this process in our daily practices, in the expansion of ecstatic conductivity, and particularly in samyama and relational self-inquiry, which act directly in dissolving the witness into unity. It can also be viewed as dissolving the world (our fabricated perception of it) into the witness. It is the same a merging of Self with all, and all with Self. Then the separation goes. We may still have our old thoughts and feelings, but they will not pull us out of Oneness. Getting rid of thoughts and feelings is not a prerequisite for unity. But transcending our identification with them is. This is a key point.
Which is the same as what you are saying here:
quote:
Also the other lessons do not mention this relation. You can also feel yourself one with all you perceive by means of the witness penetrating all time and matter and becoming one with it.
It is what is happening with classic kriya, shurely with AYP too.
Indeed - that is what is happening to me as well.
quote:
There are also different types of nonduality, very much depending upon the degree of perception. If the perception is physical only, nonduality will be limited to physicality. If perception refines to subtler dimensions, nonduality also does. The crown is supreme refinement, accordingly the nonduality.
Ok...
quote:
Coming back to the question, it was more about nonduality by means of the crown which is obviously availabe today if you like. It is not a matter of final grace, nor something that has to do with a mental attitude. It is just a matter of collecting prana and concentrating it in the crown. Thats all.
quote:
The way you are looking at nonduality is once and for all nonduality. The no return nonduality. Or in other words, having prepared everything in such a way that the first nonduality is the final one.
I think Yogani is more concerned with this aspect.
quote:
The question is, which nonduality are you refering to, the one encompassing the whole universe or the one that encompasses as much as you can perceive? For the latter one, such wait is not required, but the former one is something can't speak about so far.
I have and do experience all that I perceive as within me, sometimes for days on end. This has come about as a slow process of daily practices. But I did not count this as nonduality. Seeing the Universe inside of me is a much rarer event and of short duration. Exploding (It feels like an explosion and zooming out endlessly, instantaneously and for some reason, Jesus always appears to 'catch' me) into the universe does not make me One with it, does it? I just have suddenly become much much bigger.
I feel like to stop writing as I feel like I am talking rubbish. 
Forget the Universe - let us take the example of the cat. Seeing the cat walk by within me, does not make me one with the cat, in my opinion. I am just bigger and contain the cat. I have no idea how the cat is feeling.
quote:
Then there is also the infinitely bigger mysterious transcendental side of nonduality.
Perhaps this is what I am longing for in my confused way
quote:
The super nonduality which encompasses all to the eternal infinity, that also comes and goes thousands of times according to the kriya yogis until one completely dissolves into it by means of exhausting even past life karmas. The first entrance to that, as you'd say desireless-desire or just being, yeah the reports of that are few on the net :) May it increase more :D
Bring it on
Sey
P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this and just plunk my bum onto my seat everyday and keep at it - talking does not make me know anything, practice does
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Edited by - SeySorciere on May 25 2016 08:00:10 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 08:22:02 AM
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Qoute by Holy
quote:
Looking into the body-mind here, asking this question to myself, the only thing I can see are remaining whishes/concepts in regards to the 6 chakras, like doing this in life first, then and only then it is ok... Do any of you have this aswell? Or what is the reason for you to holding back from dissolving into nonduality? And is it really doing so or do you want to be hold back by it (for whatever reasons, like perhaps fear of the unknown up there)?
Dear Holy,
Just read your reply and I like questions, this gives the opportunity to reflect how this works in me
To answer your question, there was never a holding back, from nothing. Together with the sudden k awakening came fearlessness. After that I found yoga lessons and strong bhakti and dedication to practice came to me.
I am no kriya practitioner, but a dedicated yogi, there was never fear or holdback, just curiosity and want to know and experience it all.
More and more there is the recognition that all is happening without doing.
There is non duality in which all exists, how we see this is depending from the perspective we are able to see. (my opinion)
Sorry for the simplicity, English is today  I have difficulties with writing about me, still I do 
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Edited by - Charliedog on May 25 2016 08:33:23 AM |
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sunyata
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 09:32:32 AM
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quote:
P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this
LOL, Sey. I say the same thing. The only way this would happen is if I delete my account.
Charliedog-
Just to add to what Charliedog said. You experience non duality in every day life. This does not mean you speak in non dual language. One learns to let go of everything. The mind can claim anything, even "Enlightenment", stages of Samadhi, different experiences.
Surrender, Flow and Joy seems to be the fruits of practice. With this~ Stillness in action happens automatically.
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Edited by - sunyata on May 25 2016 09:35:44 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 10:23:43 AM
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| to you Sunyata, Sey and Holy |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 11:27:11 AM
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Replies To Holy:
quote:
Before starting with the meditation, she mentioned that the lower chakras seem to give a reason to stay there, but there is noone holding you from going up she added. And right she is, with the right approach, going up is always possible independent of the remaining karmas in the lower centers.
Just because a thing is possible does not make it
A. Safe
B. The thing one should be doing
C. What is actually needed
D. The proper thing depending upon which Ashram of life one is currently in.
quote:
Hari's kriya cannot be praised enough for making it possible to open the crown so easily.
Ahem.. Paramahamsa Hariharananda if you do not mind due respect and all that. No? Yes his techniques do.
quote:
And to the suprise here, the last event with Mangalananda showed, that the crown was ready then (3 years ago) as it is now. So why all the wait for the crown?
Based on your forum activity I would say you were exploring and needed to explore to come full circle in your particular and unique individual case.
The thing to be cautious about is for others to read your emotional charged and encouraging words and think what is true for you as a unique individual is true for others as well or to give others such an impression.
For exams I have known 4 types of Students of Paramahamsa Hariharananda.
1.) Get nothing out of the practices whatsoever at all they lack refined development and the ability to even feel prana so the triple divine qualities are impossible for them to perceive.
2.) Those who have severe overload and depersonalizing of there day to day interrelation with life.
3.)Those who are escaping from life often these are found to behave like groupies to the Swamis as if they were a rock band like the living dead and can be seen following them everywhere.
4.) Those who are ripe.
Which one are you? based on your sharing it would appear you believe yourself to be category #4
Here is a question to ponder and one I will answer.
If a person is not ripe for these practices then how will they become ripe?
Answer = by doing something else that does not involve the crown. A yogin must purify the nadis first.
AYP however does not focus on any chakra like the different and some faulty schools of practice calling themselves Kriya.
AYP does use Spinal Breathing but even that purifies beyond a specified route.
AYP is not targeted but global in it’s approach to purification which is why Deep Meditation is at it’s core the rest of the techniques are in reality are just helpers including spinal breathing but everything really is there in deep meditation.
At a certain point in a practitioners life I would surmise the two most important AYP Practices are going to be Deep Meditation and Samyama with Mahamudra mixed in to keep the spine in good shape and regulate prana in the body.
quote:
But at the same time, it is obviously always possible to just leave it as it is and directly merge into nonduality and freedom from all the process by means of going up.
Yes once you know how it is always possible, but escapism is not the reason you incarnated here is it?
Gee wiz hmm I think I will take birth just so I can wander around for X amount of years blasted out of my mind just hanging out until the body perishes.
Nahhh didn’t think so.
Caution not to become Type 2 or Type 3 all the while thinking you are Type 4
Only the individual can know when they have fulfilled their purpose for being here and if there is a doubt that you have fulfilled that purpose then the answer is simple = you have not.
No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
If one has not then a far more sane approach would be to continue your global purification and allow things to come in a manageable way while keeping a life of productive interaction with the world and continue to learn from life the very reason you are here in the first place.
Make no mistake about it LIFE on this world is everyones Sadhana or spiritual practice anything and everything contrived of and created by mankind is nothing more than ways to accelerate what is already happening but there are always questions we must always ask ourselves like
Am I accelerating towards a curve in the road too fast or am I just escaping the sadhana of life because it is perhaps too Slow? Boring? too Challenging?
If the answer is it is to slow and I am ready for something more then by all means “ Self Pace yourself in your chosen way.
This can also include perhaps working a job,becoming a husband, a father and live your life as a participating in life yogi until such time as you have fulfilled your reasonably expectable allowed time on this earth baring disease and complications and when you approach your 60’s kick out all the stops and focus on your impending transition out of the body by going Crown all the way and abiding in the crown at all times after all you have done your duty to the world and the reason you came here is mostly fulfilled by defacto of the decades gone by, that is if you applied yourself to the sadhana of being here now up till then with global purification.
quote:
Manga spoke of the cloud 7 and the illusion of believing that you have to do something below it to be allowed to go to cloud 7.
Some hold dogmatic beliefs of this nature but I think I pretty well already answered this.
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Looking into the body-mind here, asking this question to myself, the only thing I can see are remaining whishes/concepts in regards to the 6 chakras, like doing this in life first, then and only then it is ok... Do any of you have this aswell?
Again answered above. But I will add that there comes a time when it is natural to go into the crown and it just takes time to learn how to do it just right like when you cook something if you leave it on the stove too long you will burn an otherwise fine meal.
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Or what is the reason for you to holding back from dissolving into nonduality?
I dies daily.
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And is it really doing so or do you want to be hold back by it (for whatever reasons, like perhaps fear of the unknown up there)?
Sorry have gone way past this question and it holds no relevance, see above.
Replies to Sey:
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I certainly want to. I feel ready / on the brink so to speak - but it is not happening. At least not in the way some describe as a specific recognizable event. Yogani says it will happen once I stop desiring it and yet we have to desire it - "desire-less desire" as Gurunath calls it.
I take it as a final act of Grace.
The desire is not yours, it comes on it’s own as a primal she energy and presence and gives such unimaginable pleasure and bliss the you find yourself swept up in the union. You are then led to the knowings that make the union possible.
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Or.. and I'm beginning to suspect this, it is a slow integration that can happen without any fanfare of an (reportedly glorious but unstable) event(s).
Depends on the approach it can be a slow integration I am sure in fact your entire existence through many lives leads up to it, is that slow enough?
Unstable is a judgmental and conditional phrase which that only your own first hand experience and reflection can validate and determine and never an outsider will comprehend as it is all internal and specific to the individual here generalities will not serve.
One thing is for certain it will be glorious. Entering the crown and beyond each and every time is glorious by comparison to the state prior to doing so when a certain technique is used.
Reply to Holy.
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It is just a matter of collecting prana and concentrating it in the crown. Thats all. Nothing else to do and nothing else to wait for.
Ouch such a rough utilitarian approach might as well dig a bullet out of a gunshot victim with a gardening shovel.
There is much, much more to it than this. It is not just prana which is the subtle form of breath there is also mind dissolving which is the subtle form of prana followed by both intellect and instinct. Then you have unity.
The question is though are you suited for this existence? the individual must answer this.
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Shurely we are speaking from the standpoint, that the body-mind has been purified enough to handle it.
There is no Surety of anything of this nature communicated to complete strangers let alone over the internet for whomever may chance upon this conversation.
This is part of the reason AYP has taken ownership and responsibility for that which is discussed and has necessitated the advent of the paid for plus site now that Yogani is retired and can no longer afford the site upkeep on a retired persons savings.
But I digress this is also why in honorable and responsible Kriya traditions students are taken care of after the initiation and instruction.
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But you can remain in the purified body-mind for too long without the nonduality of the crown coming into your life
Correct, The question is though are you suited for this existence? the individual must answer this.
There is no non addressing of this if you practice in the way of Baba Hariharananda then you will get this wether you pay attention or not, in fact it will be impossible not to live in this intoxication.
By the very nature of non duality it can not be discussed and when it is there is always a failure.
A better way to discuss this is to do what you have and correctly explain it as expanded states of consciousness. Anything you can experience and report is within the realm of Human creatures ability to to contain or perceive and you can go beyond this but when you do you will become as the doll made of salt and dissolve and eventually if taken far enough your consciousness will expand beyond the level of a human animal to contain and your body will die because it will no more be a suitable place for you to express.
After all what do you think Nirvakalpa Samadhi is?
One day it will happen too many either by accident or on purpose and all who once knew you will say the doctor said he died of a heart attack.
All in it’s own good time better to discharge your duties to life while slowly learning how to voluntarily leave the body instead of becoming evicted once the cancer diagnosis is given and hospice is your future followed by a slow morphine drip to sleep, or not it is really up to the individual.
Reply to Sunyata
Paying for something received is honorable and the way the world works and if someone is in a stage of their personal development needs what you have described or instruction then how is this any different from paying for any other goods or services real or imagined it is all in the perception of the customer as to wherein lies the value no?
We pay for AYP Plus for similar reasons, and while it is far more affordable again that is depending on who is doing the paying and there financial status.
Reply to SeySorcerie
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Prhaps therein lies my confusion and ignorance of the matter. You see, hearing talk of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (am I right to assume this would involve the transcendental Oneness with the whole universe?), I understood it that one must have penetrated the crown chakra and the more often one gets in and out of this state, until it stabilizes, the better and this is what is needed to gain stable 24/7 nonduality.
Lesson 333 says no need for all that but it is a matter of dissolving the Witness in Unity
From Lesson 333
Honest answer and the only honest answer there is if you can put Nirvakalpa Samadhi into words then you do not know, you are only theorizing. You will know when it occurs and that is the truth.
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I have and do experience all that I perceive as within me, sometimes for days on end. This has come about as a slow process of daily practices. But I did not count this as nonduality. Seeing the Universe inside of me is a much rarer event and of short duration. Exploding (It feels like an explosion and zooming out endlessly, instantaneously and for some reason, Jesus always appears to 'catch' me) into the universe does not make me One with it, does it? I just have suddenly become much much bigger.
I feel like to stop writing as I feel like I am talking rubbish. #65532;
Forget the Universe - let us take the example of the cat. Seeing the cat walk by within me, does not make me one with the cat, in my opinion. I am just bigger and contain the cat. I have no idea how the cat is feeling.
The cat does not have the capacity of consciousness you as a human being are capable of if it were to suddenly the cat would die.
Think of Nirvakalpa Samadhi / Unity in these theoretical terms the Nirvakalpa Samadhi and conscious awareness of a cat is less than the waking state of consciousness of a human. The same is true of a human but in comparison to what I as a human cannot say.
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P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this and just plunk my bum onto my seat everyday and keep at it - talking does not make me know anything, practice does #65532;#65532;
Yes but it took all this talking to get you to make this important public service announcement and therein lies the value. |
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sunyata
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 1:05:56 PM
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quote:
Paying for something received is honorable and the way the world works and if someone is in a stage of their personal development needs what you have described or instruction then how is this any different from paying for any other goods or services real or imagined it is all in the perception of the customer as to wherein lies the value no?
Hi So-Hi,
I don't want this thread to take a wrong turn. Best if we let this go. My love and respect for Yogani is always overflowing. If it wasn't for his generous writings, my Life would not have been what it is today. Sometimes, this flows in my posts- my apologies if this affected you in anyway. I love you, too.
Sunyata |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 1:37:21 PM
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quote:
The desire is not yours, it comes on it’s own as a primal she energy and presence and gives such unimaginable pleasure and bliss the you find yourself swept up in the union. You are then led to the knowings that make the union possible.
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 2:54:18 PM
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Lol no we are good
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Originally posted by sunyata
quote:
Paying for something received is honorable and the way the world works and if someone is in a stage of their personal development needs what you have described or instruction then how is this any different from paying for any other goods or services real or imagined it is all in the perception of the customer as to wherein lies the value no?
Hi So-Hi,
I don't want this thread to take a wrong turn. Best if we let this go. My love and respect for Yogani is always overflowing. If it wasn't for his generous writings, my Life would not have been what it is today. Sometimes, this flows in my posts- my apologies if this affected you in anyway. I love you, too.
Sunyata
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2016 : 9:34:43 PM
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Hi all,
thanks for all the nice posts :) Will come back to you after the weekend. Holy @spiritualvacation
Peace and happy practice friends! |
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orangesky
Germany
39 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2016 : 07:22:55 AM
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Hello Holy, I wish you a wonderful retreat with the boss, Gurunath  , and many many strong Shivapaths
Have fun! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2016 : 08:10:05 AM
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quote:
Coming back to AYP classic lesson 333 (if it differs from the plus lesson), there is no direct relation to the crown and nonduality.
Hi Holy,
All the lessons on the AYP public site that have not been reduced, are the same as the ones in the AYP Plus site, and the same as the ones in the books (Easy Lessons, Vol 1 and Vol 2). In AYP Plus, there are many additions to the lessons, and where they occur, they are added on to the bottom of the relevant lesson.
These are some of the lesson additions that Yogani has added which are relevant to the opening and purification of the crown chakra and the dissolution into pure bliss consciousness and non-duality that can result from that:
Addition 230.1 - The Natural Evolution of Crown Experiences
Addition 199.1 - Cracking Open the Top of the Head
Addition 378.3 - The Breathless State
It has also been discussed in these two topics in the AYP Plus forum amongst others:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/i...opic=15924.0
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/i...18#msg139218
Essentially, with regards to waiting before going to the crown with attention, it is only necessary to wait until a sufficient degree of purification has taken place in the lower chakras. Once that has happened, the procedure given in lesson 199 can be followed for bringing the attention to the crown.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2016 : 1:41:35 PM
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quote:
Perhaps therein lies my confusion and ignorance of the matter. You see, hearing talk of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (am I right to assume this would involve the transcendental Oneness with the whole universe?), I understood it that one must have penetrated the crown chakra and the more often one gets in and out of this state, until it stabilizes, the better and this is what is needed to gain stable 24/7 nonduality.
Lesson 333 says no need for all that but it is a matter of dissolving the Witness in Unity
Hi Sey
"Nirvikalpa" means "without thought", so nirvikalpa samadhi is samadhi without thought, which also means without the mantra as the mantra is a thought.
So when we are meditating on the mantra and we lose the mantra into silence, that is nirvikalpa samadhi. When we realise that we are off the mantra, we are coming out of nirvikapla samadhi and into savikapla samadhi, or samadhi where some movement of thought, or ideation is present. Then we pick the mantra up again, and again we may lose it into silence.
There is a relationship between samadhi and the crown chakra. The essence, or experience of the awakened and purified crown is one of pure bliss consciousness, so brining the attention to the crown when this is it's state, makes it very easy to enter samadhi (both savikalpa and nirvikalpa). But it is not necessary to have an awakened crown to be able to enter samadhi and in fact the crown does not need to be involved at all, hence lesson 333.
So entering nirvikalpa samadhi can be done through meditation alone. Or it can be entered through the crown chakra, or through pranayama, or it can even occur spontaneously. And you are right, it is necessary to enter nirvikalpa samadhi many times in order for it to become a stable condition. What eventually becomes the stable condition is not nirvikalpa samadhi, but sahaja samadhi, or naturally abiding samadhi, which is a state of unity, or non-dual awareness that becomes our natural condition on or off the mat.
Christi
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 11:31:10 AM
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Hi all,
will reply post by post, otherwise it may get too long :) But thanks Orangesky, the extended week-end was ultimate as always :D
@Sunyata
thank you for your long post.quote:
Firstly, I have been reading your posts for years and they are truly divine. You could write about doing laundry and it would still sound divine.
You are welcome :)quote:
My maternal side is “Giri”. .. So I was blessed to born in that lineage. May be I practiced Kriya in my past lives. May be it was the blessing of my ancestors. Who knows, none of it matters.
Sure I know the Giri's, we had a long discussion on them in another thread, exploring the various alternations to the kriya practice, startin with Sri Yukteswar Giri. You write it does not matter, but I feel like this makes all the difference. The chain of causes and effects are not random and your genes are filled with Giri causes, people who have practiced and created a strong energy lineage of successfully realized people.quote:
Then one afternoon, I was sitting on the couch- my spine was readjusted, both sides of the brain readjusted and poof the “I” was gone- non duality. When you have this experience the mind is totally annihilated. Basically the intellect is not there to say –“oh yes this is Level A of non duality and now I need to get to Level B”. It is dissolution- one with creation.
Speaking of one with creation, was it just your realization by being part of it, or was it one in the ultimate sense, or in other words, have yo been one with Holy aswell, including all kowing, all being, all capable?
It is just my experience that there are countless types of nonduality in a sense So-Hi speaks of expanded states of consiousness. These states can be induced by adressing the one or other chakra, repeatedly resulting in the same degree and refinement of nonduality, the intensity and spectrum being also dependent upon its activity (basedon the amount of prana flooding through it) and purity. In regards to no-mind, there can be no-mind without nonduality, no-mind with nonduality, no-mind with various degrees of refinement of nonduality. The differentation happens when mental activity starts, not while it is absent.
Would you like to be more precise or link me to the experience posts? Thanks :)quote:
Not to sound arrogant- I see all these Gurus sitting on the pedestal and the followers bowing down to their feet and chasing them. I just don’t get it. How can you see the nature of reality and sit there on the pedestal like a celebrity. This experience makes you humble because you know no one is better than anyone. We are “One”.
This question you should ask Shiva and his first students, the Sapta Rishis and why they were bowing down and why till now the student having become one with all continues to bow down to the master who taught him the method and helped him to reach it. In my experience it is an absolute natural happening, in great joy and thankfullness the body-mind bows down deeply and by this is filled with ever more refined love and beauty. It is how life loves it to happen and therefore it does. Madhukar, a student of Papaji, one of my beloved Jnana Yoga masters was also asked the same question. He replied, that the guru takes away aspects of your ego while bowing down. He is fully realized and omnipresent and keeps bowing down to Papaji and Ramana before every satsang, he also bows down to all those who attend. Bowing opens the heart and makes the life energies flow up into the higher chakras, dissolving you into nonduality. Bowing down also gives the realized the opportunity to touch your third eye or crown chakra. Bowing down is the very first kriya practice of all Giri lineages.
Coming to someone sitting in font of others, it is not a matter of pedestal, it is just how life is. Everything spins around that which attracts and holds everything. Atoms have their center around which the electrons spin, formations of atoms having become planets and stars spin around a center which attracts and in our solar case nurishes. The joy of a realized naturally attracts people, making them spin around the source of joy and nurishment. In this sense how not to love the source of joy, the source of love and healing, how not to bown down. Yes, you are this joy, you are this love, still the body-mind will be nautrally attracted to a greater manifestation of this joy and love that you are, always and at all times. The only one complaining can only be the words in the head.quote:
I feel working on the lower chakras and then opening the crown is the best way as Yogani emphasizes.
Ok thanks for your view :)quote:
Hope this helps a little. Sorry if I went on a tangent or off topic.
Thanks, all fine. Don't forget, I am you, working for you ;) Adding to the joy, to the love, to the bliss. No other intentions here than to increase the qualities of the one true nature of all and everything. Explorations and remarks of those who can reveal enourmous silence, love and nonduality like in the case of Mangalananda still makes one think if the own approach is not too limited. At least I have always stayed open for improvements :)
Peace and happy practice :) |
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Swami Mangalananda Giri
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