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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 8:50:22 PM
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Beautiful 
From my perspective, this:
"I've also had some further struggles with family situations, again dealing with my father. I noticed more behavior of his that was deeply unappealing to me. At times I feel as if it has most likely been there all along, but like my own shortcomings, I've been too close to them to really see them for what they are. I feel as if I've gained some perspective on myself and my relationships through meditation, but I am still struggling with the consequences of these new perspectives. "
Is also positive  Sometimes we only see things in retrospect. And also sometimes you see that the negative things, in retrospect are actually positive
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 8:52:48 PM
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| I am talking about your newfound perspective of course. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2014 : 1:13:11 PM
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Many thanks Bodhi Tree and Yonatan :)
Yonatan — indeed, there may be time needed to settle into the new perspective and be able to fully appreciate it all. Thanks for the reminder. Despite the awkwardness, it feels very good and correct to be in this perspective, even if it needs to be "broken in" a bit.
I'm just realizing as I type that like bad habits of the body, one can have bad habits of the mind, of thought patterns. It seems both are equally tough to re-pattern to a healthy direction. The mind, like the body, seems to crave the old familiar, even if it isn't the healthier route. Immeditate gratification seems to be a factor in both.
My new mantra: refined mind, not refined carbs!
I've not mentioned it on this journal, but I've been on a parallel study of Stoicism along with yoga and mediation and I find it to be very compatible and helpful along the path, each supporting the other. Stoicism is very much a discipline of the mind, and by extension the actions resulting from thought. The best one-line summary I've read was a quote from (I believe) Marcus Aurelius that we cannot control what happens to is, but we can control our reactions to what happens, and how we think about those actions. Like Buddha's Middle Path, the Stoics were not promoting asceticism, but rather the ability to do without pleasure. Or rather, the ability to be satisfied with or without pleasures. A pleasure you cannot control (I.e. Say "no" to), controls you.
Also, I recently read the PDF "The Path" from Swami J's website, summarizing the concepts of Swami Rama. I found it to be exceptionally helpful. I think one needs a bit of experience in yoga/meditation to grasp the ideas, as I recall reading it when I first started out and it seemed "out there" or over my head. But reading it this past week, I found it very direct, concise and very helpful to understand what we are heading towards in this journey.
http://www.swamij.com/downloads.htm |
Edited by - Yogaman on Jul 31 2014 3:46:18 PM |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2014 : 10:59:55 PM
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Very interesting Yogaman, thanks for sharing
Regarding you now being able to read and understand swami Rama's teachings, I love to see in my own path, (and it has happened to me a couple of times), how I grow over time and am able to take in and understand writings and teachings that were vague to me or that I didn't see the truth of before. I see it as actual growth in consciousness and it is a very clear sign that tells you that "yes, I have grown overtime" (which sometimes is not a very easy thing to see in yourself that clearly).
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2014 : 01:38:18 AM
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| Thanks for the thoughts Yonatan. I think the Swami J summaries helped a lot. I have not read any Rama books yet. But I know what you mean about coming back to something and seeing things you didn't see or perhaps comprehend before. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2014 : 09:05:54 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-08-03
Another week of very intense, deep and still sits. I find myself saying this often along this journey, but I feel as if I've reached a new level of the practice. I find the inner energy much more eager to be cultivated, and it starts with the first knees-to-chest asana. Relaxation and stillness start then as well. Kneeling Seat keeps growing in inner energy intensity as well.
Yoni mudra kumbakha continues to improve although i am still getting the hang of it. Samyama continues to improve as well. I do find myself drifting off mentally at the end of each sutra at times. The inner energy can be quite strong for certain sutras.
Meditation continues to expand on the deep stillness, and the inner energy reaches this tough-to-explain "static dynamism" state. I referred to it as the sensation of learning to ride a bike no-handed in one of my sit journal entries yesterday. There is a distinct sensation of the energy "aligning" vertically and finding that still point helps the the body and by extension the mind relax into deeper states.
Life between sits has been very good. The mood and outlook has been great. I've not been able to get as much outdoor activity (biking and park hikes) in as I'd like due to impending rain on many days this week (which never seems to actually happen).
I've also been working hard to make a personal art project happen, there is a lot of pieces to this puzzle as far as not only the art and design aspect, but also the financial, business and marketing aspects in order to make the funding campaign successful. It's been like starting a small business! It's been very educational though, and regardless of the outcome the experience will have been worth it, I can already tell.
After a year of constant repairs which prompted the lease of a new car, I finally sold my previous vehicle of 13 years. It's quite interesting how wrapped up one's identity can be in an external object, especially an automobile. And especially after such a long time. It was like a second skin. It can define who you are, and how you imagine you appear to others. From the make, model, and even the blue-collar "badges of honor" (rust).
I find myself unsure of my boundaries in this new ride, hesitatingly backing out of the garage like a novice driver. And not to mention a bit of self-consciousness with the nice, new vehicle and a bit of cognitive dissonance with ingrained habits of thought from my financially-strapped upbringing. I've read recently of how there can be a kind of inverse narcissism, where one is focused on the Self, but has a low opinion. One can convince themselves they are not worthy of success, of rewards, of nice things in their lives.
Part of my reason for choosing the lease of a new vehicle (besides the surprisingly low cost on close out models) was the breaking of these old mental habits. Instead of drudging through the experience yet again of being an old car owner, I chose to instead use the debt as a motivator to work harder and expand my business. As a way to do a bit of immersion therapy and perhaps break this inverse narcissism I've been condition towards. Spend money on a car that allows me to work in a more focused and productive manner, instead of one that allows me to stay at the same level.
I go into this car psychology at length here on this journal entry because I feel the parallels to yoga/meditation are quite strong. The "new vehicle", the old habits, the extension and sense of boundaries of the self. The unnoticed conditioning after many years of "driving"(thinking) in the same "car" (mind).
With yoga/meditation, I'm getting much better mileage, a smoother ride, less trips to the mechanic. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2014 : 1:19:14 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-08-10
I can't recall where the intensity is sits left off from last week, but this week continued to deepen as well as increase in stillness and the intensity of inner energy flow. At times the experiences are quite profound and enjoyable. The intensity can at times near the border of too strong, but never to the point of actually becoming so. My analogy has been like learning to ride a bike no-handed — its a second-order level of balance required when riding a bike. At times the inner energy experience is indeed like finding a literal balance on the column of inner energy.
What strikes me most about this new stage of experience is how literal it all is, from the subjective point of view. One feels sambhavi mudra literally. The inner energy rising up the spine during pranayama is felt quite distinctly. You also realize why these practices need to be taken slowly. It's like warming up the muscles before exercising. The "system" needs to be conditioned and one needs to be familiarized with it all.
The experiences I've begun to have consistently over the past two weeks are along the lines of what my anxious expectations were for the first 3-6 months of practicing these techniques. It's about 18+ months now for me, and only 10 months of regular twice-daily sits. And only about 3 months since switching back to the mantra (which I did for about 3-4 months to start before switching to my pre-AYP breath focus method).
I am experiencing inner energy flows now during the initial asana, knees to chest. I usually stay in that for a bit and cultivate some energy and stillness. Laying in corpse pose during rests also generates inner dynamism, and the past few days even a sense of buoyancy.
Mantra continues to refine, occupying a different location in the awareness that seems to be more at the back of the skull and upper spine, and rises upward upon repetition. It has this "energetic amplifier"component to it as well. I've also noticed a heated energetic sensation in the front upper chest at times during exceptionally focused and energetic sits. Particularly when the inner energy is strong and "condensed".
Life between sits has been very good. Some rough spots with some emotional and relationship struggles have smoothed out in my thinking, as I've been [more] accepting of the faults of others while also understanding that I need to learn to not let those negative vibes affect me when I am near these people, instead of just avoiding them completely. I'm still learning how to do this but it feels healthier than the constriction approach.
One direct meditation benefit I experienced this week was a bit of anxiety with a Kickstarter art project I released this week. When the funds were slow coming in the first day, I could sense my ego and fixed-mindset (and it's related attachment of self-worth to skills and talents) struggling with this perceived uppercut to the ego. But recently during meditation the technique of "noting" thought a has arisen spontaneously, and as these esteem thoughts were bubbling up, I noticed them for what they were, and also noticed how they were directly triggering the neurobiology to release emotions, which in turn amplify and fuel the self-effacing thoughts. I had the insight "wait, I can circumvent this process!" and chose to not go down that route in my thoughts. It was a huge burden listen, and a big aha! moment for me.
One thing I forgot to mention is that I've also been implementing the Swami Rama technique of talking to my Mind as a friend. I have brief conversations with Mind before meditation. It's a quite interesting process. I have had some insights right off the bat with this method. The first being: why, if Self and Mind are "in this together", is there a struggle going on? And no weird there are these "two selves". And why is one of them so seemingly "other" and inaccessible? These profound sits as of late coincide with the "Mind chat" technique, but I feel as if the pranayama techniques and mantra are more likely the cause of the profound levels of sits as of late. The Mind Chats however may have helped me in that earlier scenario where I was more of an objective observer of mind/thoughts and was therefore able to not go down an undesirable path of thought. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2014 : 11:24:54 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-08-17
Strange week of sits. The beginning of the week continued the deep, still, strong, focused and energetic sits, but from Thursday onward they took a less-ideal turn. More mind-wandering, less focus of attention and energy, more effort required for mudras and bandhas, which were less focused. I have not been doing samyama these past few days while feeling ill, as it usually takes enough to just get the sits in twice daily.
Allergies or a cold have arisen at the same time, which could be playing a factor. Just not feeling well in general and my exercise routine has been on hold.
Overall, life between sits is still good. A bit of the "glow" that has been tinting my experiences these past few weeks is dimming, but nothing negative. Mostly just flat. The weather turning colder and more rainy, indicating imminent fall and winter most likely are playing a factor in mood and perception.
I also wonder if my introverted self is dealing with a bit of an over-socializing hangover. I've made some big changes and decisions in the past few weeks as well. For someone usually not quick to change and a bit used to doing things in a routine, perhaps all those changes in a short time frame were a bit much for me. It's actually why I did a lot of it all in the same time period, as I knew in the long run it was the right thing to do but in the short term I knew I could talk myself out of the changes. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2014 : 10:16:26 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-08-24
A good week of sits. Improved from some distracted sits the previous week while I was dealing with allergies or a cold. Not as focused, still, deep or energetic, but slowly climbing back to that point. Still a bit of distraction by thoughts during sits. I did reach a few interesting deep stillness experiences where I felt as if I had reached a deep level of inner "balance". It was both a physical and mental sensation. Mentally, I felt as if I could not be "knocked off balance" by interruptions of thoughts.
Also having slight experiences of observing thoughts as they arise, and before they "move on" to affect me in say an emotional sense. This happen during and between sits. I've also spontaneously been performing a technique I read about elsewhere called "noting", where instead of dwelling on the content of arising thoughts, I quickly categorize them as "the usual suspects" and move on from them.
Life between sits has been good. Work and personal projects continue to keep me quite busy on top of my regular healthy routines of biking and hiking as often as possible. I've also been working to get the used motorhome I bought a few weeks ago set up. I've never done this before so it's all a learning experience. It's been good for me, as I tend to get wrapped up in routines and patterns and I want to mix that up more. I'm taking more initiative to do so and I feel that meditation has been a big factor in establishing that positive change of mindset. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 11:58:38 AM
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]Yoga Recap 2014-09-01
A late weekly recap due to being out of town this weekend.
A return to the deep, still and energetic sits. Had some incredible sits this week. I was out of town visiting a friend over the weekend yet still maintained a short sit twice daily. And was able to reach some deep stillness and cultivate some inner energy quite quickly.
Life between sits remains on the upswing. I've realized a bit more as of late how meditation has been improving my daily life. These moments of a pause before thoughts and runaway emotions, being an occasional objective observer of my thinking and actions — these have become valuable resources within.
Spinal breathing, with sambhavi mudra and mula bandha have been increasing in quality over the past month. Meditation and mantra as well. My analogy has been that I am now learning to ride the bike no-handed. To go with that analogy, I do experience a deep sense of inner physical/energetic balance when reaching states of deep stillness. These seem to result from a complete letting go, a complete relaxation, a release of those last tensions you were unaware you were maintaining. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 2:18:30 PM
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quote:
My analogy has been that I am now learning to ride the bike no-handed. To go with that analogy, I do experience a deep sense of inner physical/energetic balance when reaching states of deep stillness. These seem to result from a complete letting go, a complete relaxation, a release of those last tensions you were unaware you were maintaining.
In asanas I often ask myself "is this yet the full expression?" And more often than not, the answer is No, the shoulders aren't back, or my thighs aren't turning inward, or some such thing...until the No becomes a Yes! as the inner energies confirm my warrior self. I love the image of riding a bike with no hands as this has forever challenged me and reminds me there is always more surrender work to do! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2014 : 12:31:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
quote:
My analogy has been that I am now learning to ride the bike no-handed. To go with that analogy, I do experience a deep sense of inner physical/energetic balance when reaching states of deep stillness. These seem to result from a complete letting go, a complete relaxation, a release of those last tensions you were unaware you were maintaining.
In asanas I often ask myself "is this yet the full expression?" And more often than not, the answer is No, the shoulders aren't back, or my thighs aren't turning inward, or some such thing...until the No becomes a Yes! as the inner energies confirm my warrior self. I love the image of riding a bike with no hands as this has forever challenged me and reminds me there is always more surrender work to do!
I too often wonder with asanas, mudras or bandhas if I've found the right expression (I like your use of that term). Usually the answer is eventually "it seems it was not!"
Very easy to think you've found the zone, only to later on discover a deeper level. I'm sure that will continue! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2014 : 1:48:11 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-09-07
Another good week of sits. Despite some small ups and down in health levels, I maintained my sits and even had some quite. Deep, still and profound sits during some short sessions.
Life between sits (or the much more humorous 'between the cushions' which always comes to mind when I type this) remains positive and positive enhanced by meditation. I continue to experience this helpful perspective of pause between thought, the resulting emotional response, and the ensuing physical reaction. I observe them as aspects of a process, as opposed to the former way of it all being mashed into one unavoidable lump.
Opposed to stifling or avoiding these undesirable emotional and mental states, I feel as if I have that pause in which I can actively choose, as opposed to the former situation of passively reacting. The deeper implications to this are that of responsibility and autonomy: I am slowly losing the old excuses I once clung to. When one is aware of, and has a choice in, the possible paths from which a thought can follow, you can no longer blame circumstances for your behavior.
One can no longer cling to suffering, which I am coming to see as an excuse for Immediate gratification and indulgence in cravings, urges and other unhealthy behaviors, habits and addictions. We plant the seeds of suffering so the future self can harvest the fruits when it needs an excuse for unhealthy choices.
But with a notion of what we (as the secret sufferer) are up to with this perspective gained from the pause between thought, emotional response and body reaction, that outsourcing of blame is gone. Impossible. We are now responsible, and we know it. Runaway mind, runaway emotional response — these can no longer function as the escapes we once took refuge in. |
Edited by - Yogaman on Sep 07 2014 1:56:28 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2014 : 6:20:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
When one is aware of, and has a choice in, the possible paths from which a thought can follow, you can no longer blame circumstances for your behavior.
One can no longer cling to suffering, which I am coming to see as an excuse for Immediate gratification and indulgence in cravings, urges and other unhealthy behaviors, habits and addictions. We plant the seeds of suffering so the future self can harvest the fruits when it needs an excuse for unhealthy choices.
But with a notion of what we (as the secret sufferer) are up to with this perspective gained from the pause between thought, emotional response and body reaction, that outsourcing of blame is gone. Impossible. We are now responsible, and we know it. Runaway mind, runaway emotional response — these can no longer function as the escapes we once took refuge in.
Wow. Strong. Thank you.
Makes me think of the quote from St. Paul: "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish things." |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2014 : 02:09:44 AM
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| Thanks. Bodhi. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2014 : 12:28:11 PM
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Yoga Recap 2014-09-14
Another good week of sits. Health has been up and down and so have the length of sits, although I've found myself sinking into deep, still, energetic, focused and balanced sits where the short sits can't help but end up being typical sits.
Life between sits remains positive. I've been in a strange mood, almost feels as if a transition is accelerating. But at times it also feels sluggish and as of wheels are spinning.
I've been learning more about my issues with procrastination and how they relate to the perfectionism I struggle with, and also how these both deal with esteem and shame issues. Shame is another one of those words or concepts that one thinks they understand, but on further inspection it seems we have only a vague and cartoonish notion of the idea. The same held true for meditation and yoga before I got started in actual practice.
I've been reading the book "Conquest of Illusion" which I discovered via the Plane Talk blog, which has a great perspective of yoga/meditation that I really enjoyed: http://dondeg.wordpress.com/2014/04...ion-problem/
"Conquest of Illusion" speaks very directly to a lot of those back-of-the-mind questions I have surrounding yoga and meditation, even if not specifically a book about yogic techniques. He also seems to expand on the concepts Alan Watts likes to focus on, that of the intrinsic nature of reality as a non-dual whole.
While my practice continues to result in deep, still, energetic and focused sits as well as peace, positivity and even a bit of joy in my everyday life, I still have that craving for "more". Something more overt. I've held that my goal is to reach a point where I can confidently suggest to my brother that he should start a meditation practice. While I find it worthy myself, I've always had a interest and fascination in yoga and meditation but never the discipline to start or maintain a practice. I've had enough experiential feedback to tell me that something is progressing, and it aligns with the experiences and claims reported by others. But I've yet to have anything I could point directly to and tell my brother that it's worth the focus, discipline, time and effort. I'm not saying I don't find at least some of that myself, but not to the degree where I would confidently suggest to him that he should consider it himself.
That said, it's tough to point to any particular benefit for my regular exercise, save for some slight improvements in muscular build and tone. Much of it is in the mindset, in being someone who exercises regularly, and the resulting influence that mindset has on the rest of my life, perspective and experience. I've no doubt that meditation is the same on some level. However the claims of the results of yoga/meditation far surpass those of exercise, and the limited vague sense of improved well-being I think I am experiencing.
I am patient enough to maintain the practice, and have had enough hints of progress that keep me on the path. But still I anticipate being able to say to my brother and other seekers "yes, you want to do this". In time. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2014 : 5:44:03 PM
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quote:
While I find it worthy myself, I've always had a interest and fascination in yoga and meditation but never the discipline to start or maintain a practice. I've had enough experiential feedback to tell me that something is progressing, and it aligns with the experiences and claims reported by others. But I've yet to have anything I could point directly to and tell my brother that it's worth the focus, discipline, time and effort. I'm not saying I don't find at least some of that myself, but not to the degree where I would confidently suggest to him that he should consider it himself.
I believe you mentioned this brother before in this context (endorsing and advocating meditation for him when it has proven its worth to you) and I'm curious about:
1) the nature of your relationship with him
2) why you believe he (maybe) should meditate
3) what event you are anticipating that would trigger an endorsement
4) why the changes that have occurred thus far are not yet worthy of this endorsement
5) if an endorsement is needed. Is he curious about your practice but wants a guarentee that time invested won't be wasted? Is that your fear too? |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2014 : 1:19:57 PM
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Dogboy:
My brother and I are quite close, very similarly minded. He is a bit younger and has a family and a job, while I am single and have a home business. Thus I've more time than he does. He's also a bit more impatient. But in some ways, my criteria is more about selling it myself, I think.
2: he has expressed interest and if one of those things that is worth the time, best to start now.
3. Trigger event: some sort of realization that I can point directly to. Even general day to day happiness. There's lots of talk about yoga and meditation being a science, yet the results claimed are often very vague. Conversely, some of the benefits are beyond verbal description. I'd like to have an experience that definitively gives me an awareness of these states of consciousness (samadhi and such).
4. The changes this far, well nothing I can point directly to, to encourage someone on the fence. I've mentioned before my experience of having some "space" between thoughts, and also between a thought and an emotional response. It's beneficial but inconsistent. Also vague and subjective. My full routine can take up to two hours of a day. That's a serious time investment. It would be nice to be able to point to the ecstatic descriptions in Yogani's books and tell people "stick with it, you'll have these experiences". That may indeed be true in time, but for me 18+ months in, I've not even scratched the surface.
I'm not complaining. I'm just saying to someone skeptical, there are a lot of big claims that one may not experience for many months or years. It seems unpopular to ask questions about meditation, or to express doubt. I'm just being honest. I question things. I was raised in a religious-ish environment and told to believe that that was "true". But not to my experience. Direct experience is what drew me into yoga/meditation. I only ask for the direct experience claimed.
5. He is somewhat curious. And as mentioned above, I don't doubt I too want reassurance my time won't be wasted. But for me, I've been down other paths. My studies have led me to yoga/meditation after a lot of searching. I'm in it for the long haul. To be honest, I'm out of other options!
I express my doubts mostly because as a journal, I assume there are others along the path like me. I don't feel my questions are properly addressed by what I've read out there. In a way, I am hoping to have some direct experience so as to be able to report back to anyone on the fence (as I was in the past) and tell them "stick with it".
My questions are not intended to challenge, but rather to express an honest perspective that I know a lot of people have. I'm not asking for anything more than direct experience, results of the practices as described. If valid, they should provide results. I am just journaling my honest progress on the journey.
I don't think it would be fair to only speak glowingly and optimistically of the practices when I have moments of doubt. I look forward to and enjoy and get better at my sits every day, every week. But I will also be honest and say that doubts creep in. I read other reports on these forums, on blogs, in books and articles online. There are some big experiences talked about. It's easy to feel left out, left behind. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2014 : 11:32:21 AM
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Yoga Recap 2014-09-21
An interesting week of sits. Been off and on sick all week but maintained at least a daily sit. Most of them I did untimed as I didn't expect them to be long sits, but they all turned into long sits as they all went extremely well and became very deep and intense.
Sambhavi mudra has become more focused. Mula bandha seems to be refining to a muscle group higher in the pelvis. The spinal nerve has become quite pronounced and the inner energy eager to engage. Spinal breathing has become quite strong, at times it can seem a bit much.
Meditation too has refined, my sitting posture continues to relax and become stronger and my focus increases in consistency. Mantra refined further as well. I am experiencing the concept of returning to the mantra as opposed to trying to stay on it more clearly.
Life between sits remains positive, even while dealing with this ongoing cold or allergy bout (or whatever I'm dealing with). In the past this could have easily led to rumination and perhaps even depression, but the more I learn about what triggers these events, and why, the better I am at avoiding them. I believe meditation has been instrumental in this.
The perfectionist desire to maintain a rigid schedule and habit can be a negative thing if one ties some misses too deeply to their sense of self. I'm learning to forgive myself in these situations.
I've been doing a lot of thinking about my earlier post about expectations from meditation. The best analogy I have is that of lucid dreaming, another esoteric activity that at one time was very mysterious and interesting to me. There was a lot of controversy as to the reality, validity and attainability of the experience. For years I practiced the suggested techniques.
When I finally experienced my first lucid dream, there were no longer any doubts or questions. No amount of reading or argument could ever convince me that they were not real experiences. I've had a but a few since then, and have not maintained the practices. It opened my mind quite a bit to other esoteric practices such as yoga and meditation (which looking back I knew nothing of besides vague, misinformed information accumulated from ignorant sources like mass media). But the critiques and outright dismissal by some of lucid dreaming, once I'd experienced one directly, revealed to me that indeed our consciousness held more to be discovered despite any arguments otherwise.
In recent years I've Internet-met some people who claim regular lucid dreaming, often to the point of annoyance. This has tempered my patience with meditation. It points back to my questions about "how were these techniques discovered?" and the variance in timeframes for experiences. The regular lucid dreamer never had to make any effort to instigate them, he knew no other dreaming experience.
My other thoughts on the experience of spiritual states and awakening relate to the odd feeling I get at times that to expect results seems frowned upon. I find that odd, as I've stated before I came to yoga/meditation for direct experiences. While I indeed find benefit and joy in the practice itself, I am interested in the larger scope based on the reports of others. If these experiences are ever to become more widespread, as Yogani discusses throughout the AYP writings, there is a need to address these issues.
When I spoke earlier of wanting to be able to tell my brother that he should indeed meditate, it was more of a benchmark for me than to actually convince him specifically to meditate. As mentioned, he's an open-minded skeptic, and like most Westerners, mired in this dualistic experience of the world we've been conditioned to experience.
I can without question validate the reality of the lucid dreaming experience. I can without question, and from direct experience, suggest to any interested seeker that if they put in the time and effort, the experience is real.
Often on this path, and quite recently in fact, I encounter those who talk confidently of the validity of these non-dual realities, the direct experience of the Absolute, yet only discover upon further inquiry that they are merely regurgitating information they have gathered. One such person revealed to me that not only had they not directly experienced this state, they never even meditated or practiced any type of contemplative activity designed to result in these mystical experiences. In fact, this person was highly touting a book which throughly defused the idea that one can intellectualize their way to an experience or understanding of this state — which is exactly what this person was doing!
This is where my hesitations lie, with not knowing the validity behind the claims. The "brother benchmark" for me is also one on a personal scale: if I tell him, he knows that I would not suggest it lightly. If indeed this experience lies in wait for humanity (as I believe it does), it is going to spread by trusted word of mouth. This is what I am reaching towards. I am not going to suggest that others follow in the path of meditation (and all the extensive claims behind it, such as ecstatic conductivity, unending divine bliss, and other wonderfully poetic and inspiring references by Yogani) until I can tell others "yes, I've experienced these myself".
I don't think it's too much to ask to want to have direct experiences. I feel like that is why we are on this path. At least it's why I am.
Speaking of "I Am", I recently started listening to the "I Am" Spirituality podcast. Really good stuff. The host is a guy who claims direct experience of enlightenment. And a resulting passion to bring that same direct experience to others. His definitions of ego, fear and emotions are quite helpful and useful on the yoga path.
He also dedicates an episode to describing his enlightenment experience, which is something I can point to as far as a specific experience to aim for in all of this. I do not expect these kinds of results off the bat, but I am aiming for this. And the host, Sean Webb, also discusses the differences between spiritual awakenings and enlightenment. My intermediate goals are to have the awakenings. Milestones that the path is opening up. That my technique is good, my practice sound.
I referenced "samadhi" earlier, which may not be the right word. Yogani seems to equate samadhi the the experience of The Witness state, which to me was an intermediate stage and not enlightenment. So to clarify, I am not expecting the firehose after a few months or even a few years. But I do expect, as I did with my lucid dreaming practices, to have unmistakable experiences. Lucid dreaming is all or nothing, but meditation seems to have intermediate stages such as The Witness (whatever analogue that has to Sanskrit terms). Yogani speaks very directly and plainly to the rise of The Witness. It is my near-term aim to cultivate this experience.
http://iamspirituality.com/ - check out episode 20 for his recounting of his enlightenment experience. |
Edited by - Yogaman on Sep 21 2014 11:39:09 AM |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2014 : 3:30:10 PM
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quote:
My questions are not intended to challenge...
My questions too, dear Yogaman, were not meant as a challenge, so I am pleased you didn't take it as such. To learn of the love and respect of your brotherhood touches me dearly, and made me recall when I was seven, my mother miscarried both "Baby Joseph" and my last chance to have a brother (I have two sisters).
quote:
I don't think it would be fair to only speak glowingly and optimistically of the practices when I have moments of doubt. I look forward to and enjoy and get better at my sits every day, every week. But I will also be honest and say that doubts creep in. I read other reports on these forums, on blogs, in books and articles online. There are some big experiences talked about. It's easy to feel left out, left behind.
I'm impressed with your honest and heartfelt approach to your practice. Your inquisitive nature, coupled with you Bhakti. will surely eventually free you from these "Horse Latitudes". You are providing a tremendous service to others along your particular pock-holed path of doubts by your union of discipline and Bhakti, which makes your journal a must-read every Sunday. It is path of the tortoise amongst hares and you remember how that story played out?
I had no indication only a year into AYP it was my lot to be the hare in terms of prana flow (A side note: now that I am Ego Aware, I'm in a constant conflict how much to reveal on this forum without becoming a Talking Head shouting "look at me!", but that is another thread I guess!). I thought then bliss meant I'd be a "walking fountain of arousal" with a peaceful smile plastered on my face. While at times that indeed is the case, most times prana is an ever-present subtle 'subterranean' vibration; DM is constructing me into a vessel of stillness to house an energy that vacillates in intensity in any given moment on any given day. It is my new chew toy. I am learning much the more I play with this prana, using asanas with gentle awareness, mindfulness, and surrender. I am also keen on its volatile capability, and learning about self pacing and directing circulation so I may continue to engage this amazing discovery AYP has unearthed in me. If I never experience samadhi, que sera sera, I can always do it at death!
I report this not in the spirit of measuring against anyone else's path, but to encourage your discipline to remain steadfast, that your labors will bear fruit of some variety that you will one day enjoy and share with your loved ones. Your example is providing IMHO proof enough for your brother that focused effort is never wasted.
Thank you for sharing your and yoga!
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Edited by - Dogboy on Sep 22 2014 06:38:31 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2014 : 6:55:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
Often on this path, and quite recently in fact, I encounter those who talk confidently of the validity of these non-dual realities, the direct experience of the Absolute, yet only discover upon further inquiry that they are merely regurgitating information they have gathered. One such person revealed to me that not only had they not directly experienced this state, they never even meditated or practiced any type of contemplative activity designed to result in these mystical experiences. In fact, this person was highly touting a book which throughly defused the idea that one can intellectualize their way to an experience or understanding of this state — which is exactly what this person was doing!
This is where my hesitations lie, with not knowing the validity behind the claims. The "brother benchmark" for me is also one on a personal scale: if I tell him, he knows that I would not suggest it lightly. If indeed this experience lies in wait for humanity (as I believe it does), it is going to spread by trusted word of mouth. This is what I am reaching towards. I am not going to suggest that others follow in the path of meditation (and all the extensive claims behind it, such as ecstatic conductivity, unending divine bliss, and other wonderfully poetic and inspiring references by Yogani) until I can tell others "yes, I've experienced these myself".
I don't think it's too much to ask to want to have direct experiences. I feel like that is why we are on this path. At least it's why I am.
Strong bhakti, man. Wanting nothing but the truth--nothing but direct experience. Of that, I can relate, wholeheartedly. Authentic, genuine, real. Better keep going, I guess! What other choice do we have? Stick with the techniques that yield tangible (or maybe slightly intangible  ) results, and peel off the layers that hold you down.
Just a random thought...one enhancement that has helped me BIG-TIME is the solar centering enhancement. You might want to consider that one if your bhakti is pulling you towards more depth and refinement. Since beginning that one, I've noticed orgasmic pulsations emitting from that region, and when that is occurring, there's not too much room for complaint anymore (well, maybe a demand for MORE so I can be devoured by it completely).
Thank you for your lucid writing and honest insight regarding your path.  |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2014 : 2:15:05 PM
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Second the Solar Centering advice.
I don't know if you already do, but adding some tantra techniques on AYP might also jump start your prana flow, especially with DM well established.  |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2014 : 10:20:01 AM
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Many thanks for the kind comments and suggestions. I'll definitely look into this Solar Centering. I've not delved too much into the tantra stuff on AYP yet. I've been focused on the slow addition to the core practices.
I stumbled on this quote the other day that I thought relevant to my recent posts:
“The ultimate reason for setting goals is to entice you to become the person it takes to achieve them.” – Jim Rohn
From this perspective, meditation has already paid off big dividends. I can sometimes overlook this. Another ironic aspect of my questions is the fact that they arise during the most obvious manifestation of direct experience in my meditation practice to date. Strong spinal breathing, distinct spinal nerve sensations, deep and focused stillness in meditation. In the past 6 weeks I've no doubt crossed a threshold. Perhaps some of us need to be hit over the head with the milestones!
Perhaps it is a situation of hedonic adaptation. The mind/brain likes to become jaded and take things for granted as quickly as possible it seems.
I also need to take my own advice when it comes to goals. Just as the goal of fitness isn't some specific "thing" or static "state" one achieves, but a pattern, a habit, a way of being that infuses the choices you make and the way one approaches situations — so too is it for yoga and meditation. One is not an artist because they have mastered some skill, but because they regularly put that skill into action.
Just as it can be tough to perceive an unhealthy situation from within it, I have a strong suspicion that holds true for the healthy ones as well.
Thanks again. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2014 : 12:58:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yogaman
One is not an artist because they have mastered some skill, but because they regularly put that skill into action.
Exactly. Hence the importance of recognizing that an identity (artist, yogi, athlete) is merely tacked on to describe an event that is already occurring.
One thing I like to contemplate is how superfluous an awards ceremony can be--after a big tennis match, for instance. The joy and the thrill is watching the players compete at a high level of intensity, but once it's over, who keeps watching TV to see the awards ceremony? It's anti-climactic. Same with the Oscars. Getting lost and immersed in the movie itself far surpasses any accolades that get tacked onto the piece of art.
I've read so many spiritual books. I've devoured AYP material like a ravenous scholar. I can access a mental, holographic compendium of much information. But at the end of the day, what do I want? The direct experience.
We want to taste it, touch it, smell it, feel it, and hear it. And of course, we want to transcend it. Desire...that's what makes the world go round. |
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Dogboy
USA
2193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2014 : 4:31:37 PM
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