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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 08:35:41 AM
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Hi,
Just sharing a solution to a common problem. Often spiritual practices cause me to get overloads of energy in the head area. This can be quite unpleasant and cause headaches. I also find it can sometimes even affect my speech, taking away the easy natural flow of communication, and making it hard for me to speak. Finally, it can stop thought in a way that is uncomfortable - I feel completely blank and unable to use thought.
When overloading, breath meditation as an alternative to "I Am" mantra meditation is nothing new, and an alternative I regularly employ, but specifically, when doing the breath meditation, I breath deeply into the abdomen, so I can practically feel my breath going below the level of the navel.
I also rest my attention during the meditation in the abdomen, lower waist, and even around the digestive organs.
In this way, the bliss meditation building up in the head gets breathed down into the lower parts of the body, and no overload ensues.
For me it's often the only solution, because being pretty sensitive even doing something like reading some advaita can cause me to overload in the head.
Best,
J |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 09:46:04 AM
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Sounds like a great idea. Thanks.  |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 10:08:38 AM
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Do you also use solar centering otherwise when not overloading, and does it also help?
The techniques you describe is the way I eventually settled into meditation prior to AYP, after first starting with no method or external guidance other than just sitting in silence, and then added full yogic breathing with focus on lower abdomen which I found as the common instruction among a few books. I've always been stable, and as a beginner not sensitive enough to see any effects, though I do enjoy attention at the plexus since it is easy to feel feedback from higher centers and muladhara while abdomen has always felt completely numb. There were also inconsistencies in the exact focus point, and more speculation one would not expect coming from sources claiming to know and truly wanting to teach (real vs false points) that made me recognize a few things about bhakti, teaching styles, and approaches.
Appreciate the insight from your experience, Mr. Anderson. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 1:32:30 PM
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Hey Aum,
I've found solar centering is not too helpful for me. I still get energy overload in the head when I do solar centering, but not quite as badly as if I was just doing the mantra regular style (where attention tends to naturally rest in the head or throat).
I'm resting attention way down below the plexus, almost inside the lower intestine. The attention seems to like to come inside the body, in the center of it, as opposed to resting attention on the outside.
It's hard to know what is really going on, on the energetic level. But overload in the head just spells headaches, irritability, and the overall intuitive sense is that there's no progress being made when all the energy is blocked up in the head. The experience has a shallow feeling. If I don't follow my intuition to lead the energy deep into the lower half of the torso, I just get into a weirdly detached state, with a headache, and eventually I lose interest in spiritual practice.
However, pulling the energy down, down, down, almost into the rectum, and the whole body resonates with a profound silence. In this way, the body is experienced more as an illusory appearance in consciousness, transparent, fluid, free, a little wave of bliss upon the ocean of bliss. It doesn't feel so much that "I am this heavy, solid entity". Feels more like light cotton wool like sensations passing in awareness. It's pretty hard to describe this feeling as you might imagine, and I'm probably not doing it justice. And I'm sure this just a somewhat personal thing. Everyone's network of obstructions is different.
At least that is how it has been recently. If I don't consciously direct the energy down out of the head, not much will be happening other than headaches that last for the entire day and being a little crabby with my girlfriend  |
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JimProfit
France
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 5:09:35 PM
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Hi Mr Anderson,
I have been reading the forum for three or four years now, and have enjoyed your contributions a lot.
I have discovered the presence process when you first posted it on the forum some time ago...i am now in my third time and going for a forth time  but still doing AYP between each ten weeks of TPP.
Your experiences about abdominal breathing and insight on the energetics have reminded me of one of my readings about Master Hakuin. Hakuin suffered of "zen sickness" (energetic problems )and with the help of a Taoist hermit cured himself with abdominal breathing and the "so cream meditation" .
http://fr.scribd.com/doc/60202616/Y...anna-Compare
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Edited by - JimProfit on Jul 10 2013 6:04:23 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2013 : 7:52:21 PM
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Hi Jimprofit,
Glad you picked up on TPP and went through the full course. How were your experiences? I've been through 3 times.
Thanks for the document link, I just read through. |
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JimProfit
France
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2013 : 2:02:10 PM
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quote:
How were your experiences?
Awful, kidding
It had been difficult, in particular when i hit the seven week mark (i had to stop for 2 weeks with flu the 2nd time and for 2 days the third) and i hated (a lot) the hot baths but it was easier than what i was expecting.
Presence seems to have been very gentle with me, i still feel that there is more to work through.
The effects of the process are still unfolding here but i have been having some explosive insights on the nature of the ego ... the last one was yesterday and i laughed for a good five minutes .
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Edited by - JimProfit on Jul 11 2013 2:15:42 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2013 : 2:44:59 PM
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Yeah actually during my third time thru the Presence Process I had my first real experience of totally waking up out of identification with form. It's funny, because it's essentially a very simple teaching of learning how to just be in the moment without resistance. And all "resistance to the moment" is just a constriction on an energetic/felt level, so TPP dives right into the core of those constrictions. And by simply learning to recognize constriction and unpleasant emotion when it occurs, then breath calmly, close one's eyes, and fix attention in the moment, and stop running from the constrictions and unpleasant feelings, they naturally lose their momentum and dissolve.
Good luck with your present journey! |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2013 : 9:14:47 PM
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Hey Josh!
How goes it my brother? Your experience with the head imbalances is pretty similar to what I'd experienced for about 18 months off and on...some headaches, spaciness, difficulty in thinking...and on retreats the energy would be so intense that it would make it difficult to communicate, there just simply wouldn't be much in the way of thoughts arising to speak.
The energy follows the attention so focusing on the lower chakras would help, although when I would take my attention off of that area the energy tended to pull back to the head...almost like a window shade that you can't keep down, every time you let go it shoots back to the top
Visualizing the energy traveling down through the root and anchoring in the earth would help, as would walking barefoot in the grass and visualizing the energy grounding into the dirt. Chin pump did help for me as well, bringing the energy down into the chest, but a little too much of it would intensify the head energy as well, so I had to very carefully self pace on that
I've also used some grounding stones black onyx, tourmeline, apache tears...I keep one or two in my pocket at work and it does seem to help a bit.
Over the past couple of months I've had some blockages in the throat and heart areas dissapate, and It has been a big relief for the energy pooling in the head. So much more grounded and much greater clarity in thinking.
TPP has been helping as well...for me--currently--I have tended to feel energy constrictioning as an unconscious tightening of the abdomen...and the noticing of the constriction and bringing unconditional awareness to it release the contraction and the energy flows more freely to that area. As this happens the energy is naturally pulled down into the body resulting in feeling more grounded.
Thanks for all of your posts Josh...they have all been super helpful for me.
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2013 : 10:13:11 PM
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Hey!
Good to hear from you man.
quote:
The energy follows the attention so focusing on the lower chakras would help, although when I would take my attention off of that area the energy tended to pull back to the head...almost like a window shade that you can't keep down, every time you let go it shoots back to the top
lol. this describes my issue exactly.
quote:
I have tended to feel energy constrictioning as an unconscious tightening of the abdomen
Yes, it's often the same here.
I find that ultimately, on becoming more and more deeply established in the witness/choiceless awareness, the more immediately resistance to the moment (in its energetic form of constrictions and so on in the body) is noticed as an object in awareness, instead of unconsciously identified with, and the more easily it is let go
Feels good. TPP is a nice tool for zapping sticky patterns. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2013 : 12:31:33 AM
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Hello Mr. Anderson,
Do you think this technique could help with facial tension/face freezing up during DM?
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2013 : 07:16:41 AM
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Hi Lalow,
I have often experienced facial tension and face freezing up from DM.
I consider it a symptom of overload. What is your practice routine and in what context do you experience it ? |
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JimProfit
France
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2013 : 2:32:25 PM
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quote:
Good luck with your present journey!
Thanks Mr Anderson |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2013 : 3:25:41 PM
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Mr. Anderson,
I'm just coming off my first overload. I had to skip some days then went to 5 min of DM. Feeling much better so I did 10min of DM and had the facial freezing both sessions. I had a lot of this in the past; I think it started during lots of third eye activity, experienced during meditation and Savasana. I can't remember the type of meditation because I was experimenting.
I read your post and thought it may be helpful. Probably for future use since I'm only 3mo in to AYP. I don't want to switch meditation styles now unless I absolutely have to.
Oh yeah, I dropped sbp 2 weeks ago , and I'm still doing asanas daily but decreased the amt. substantially . |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2013 : 3:44:53 PM
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Sounds like you are very sensitive like me. Facial freezing was a common side effect I often experienced.
See how you go, but eventually DM just became interminable for me, due to that and many other side effects, and I had to stick with breath watching.
Self pace carefully and be very careful not to get a build up of overload or you might end up having to stop practices for a considerable amount of time. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 11:26:45 AM
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Josh,
I just bought the Presense Process and I am getting ready to start it. My question is about the meditation in the book. I have not read far enough but would you think it would be ok to replace the breath meditation in the book with AYP for the formal sitting practice? I just don't want to confuse two systems and overload.
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Edited by - jonesboy on Jul 17 2013 12:45:54 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 2:53:21 PM
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Hi Jonesboy,
The breathing method in the Presence Process is not comparable to AYP's Deep Meditation. I'd go so far as to say that they are each for very different purposes, and each has very different effects.
If you wish to complete the Presence Process effectively, I suggest staying with Michael Brown's proscribed practice, and leaving AYP for that time.
If you are an under-sensitive meditator, you could do both, but I'd recommend one or the other. Part of the Presence Process involves using Consciously Connected Breathing during the day whilst taking part in our daily activities, and through several sessions of warm baths.
Without the 70 day course of consciously connected breathing, both for 15 minutes twice daily of sitting practice, and whilst remaining aware during the day, there isn't really a Presence Process - just rather a lot of unproven information about emotions.
With the 70 day course of breathing practice, what follows is one of the only valid (and unbelievably rapid) transformational methods I'm aware of for slicing away the emotional obstructions, the addiction to thinking and the grasping / resisting, that obscure the direct experience of our true nature as Sat-Chit-Ananda.
Best wishes on your experience!
Josh |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jul 17 2013 2:54:32 PM |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 4:36:13 PM
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| Wow, Thank you Josh. Your posts are always so informative. I hope your classes are getting bigger becuase you do have a lot to offer. If you are ever in the Phoenix area please let me know :) |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 5:33:52 PM
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| Thanks! I'd love to stop by, and may well do so! |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 08:44:38 AM
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| Hi Josh, I have a similar situation as yours. I've done AYP DM for 6 months, but the intense pressures in the third eye area stopped me from practicing even for 5 mins. I tried solar centering, but that didn't work either. For now I am doing the presence process with consciously connected breathing, which is good for me. I'm just worried I can never go back to AYP. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 10:14:09 AM
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| Breath meditation may be best for you. Yogani's method of breath meditation is different than the TPP method. I have found the breath meditation in TPP to give me more energy ( having trouble getting to sleep) and a lot more crown activity. The pressure in Ajna seems to be more spread out for me also. |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 10:50:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
Hi Jonesboy,
The breathing method in the Presence Process is not comparable to AYP's Deep Meditation. I'd go so far as to say that they are each for very different purposes, and each has very different effects.
If you wish to complete the Presence Process effectively, I suggest staying with Michael Brown's proscribed practice, and leaving AYP for that time.
If you are an under-sensitive meditator, you could do both, but I'd recommend one or the other. Part of the Presence Process involves using Consciously Connected Breathing during the day whilst taking part in our daily activities, and through several sessions of warm baths.
Without the 70 day course of consciously connected breathing, both for 15 minutes twice daily of sitting practice, and whilst remaining aware during the day, there isn't really a Presence Process - just rather a lot of unproven information about emotions.
With the 70 day course of breathing practice, what follows is one of the only valid (and unbelievably rapid) transformational methods I'm aware of for slicing away the emotional obstructions, the addiction to thinking and the grasping / resisting, that obscure the direct experience of our true nature as Sat-Chit-Ananda.
Best wishes on your experience!
Josh
Hi Mr A
Your comments on TPP are much appreciated and also feedback from others is valued. Michael Brown is brilliant and TPP is amazing. The problem I'm having, if you recall, is with the sitting meditation and explicitly following his instructions. I'm extremely sensitive and even breath meditation tends to produce significant overload.
However the TPP meditation suits me better than any other sitting meditation attempted, so am sticking with it even though only up to 5-6 minutes once or twice daily now. At first only 3-4 minutes a sitting could be managed. May have to settle with 10 minutes 3x rather than 15 minutes 2x. We'll see how it goes.
All I can manage is slow progress, but if and when I get up to 10-12 minutes per sitting, the course will be tried, while simultaenously increasing meditation time by a minute every other week or so if possible. Am very busy now but in the near future plan on reading it again. Just having the book and carefully studying it helped me immensely. So I can imagine how much transmutation will occur when finally able to do the course.
You've inspired several of us to do the course, or in my case being highly motivated to do so. I'm confident it's just a matter of time before it can be accomplished here. Thanks again.
love
parvati |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 12:19:56 PM
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| I agree with parvati, thank you for your comments on TPP. I'm only in week one and am already beginning to see some positive effects. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 12:35:35 PM
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Dear Parvati - Very best wishes on your journey if you do do it, and I'm glad the TPP meditation works for you. I find it extremely useful at times. I'm very pleased that you were inspired and that also you found the course useful.
AK33 - I would not be too concerned with whether or not you can go back to AYP. By all means try. I have certainly tried, tried and tried again :-) But whatever is happening in your practices, whilst it may not align with your personal will, it is most certainly the will of That, the Self, of God, or whatever conceptual label you may prefer to use for The One, which encompasses, and is all. There is only one prayer we really need: Thy (not my) Will Be Done. Overload is often a sign of a ripe and sensitive nervous system, and an indicator to back-off on practices. Everything happens in its right time.
Don't identify with the impulse, which comes from the ego, which is this desperate tendency to drive oneself too hard, with the belief that "If I only practice right/hard enough, I'll get there". This belief needs to be questioned. One of the best pre-requisites for Self-Realization is a highly open, alert, clear, dynamic, flexible and curious mind that will question everything (including whether or not practices are really being helpful at this point). This mind and questioning process must be Sattvic (grounded in peace and silence, having a soft/gentle/harmonious approach to inquiry) as result of having undergone considerable purification through methods like AYP, The Presence Process, and right diet (I find abstaining from intoxicants, having a lot of raw foods and green juices and leaning towards being Vegan/Vegetarian immensely helpful).
If having taken some "time off" from spiritual practices, allowing the overload to calm down, yet you find you are still unable to go back, it's just a sign that more subtle tools are required for your nervous system. This is a theme frequently encountered by practitioners here, it seems. For example, in Carson's recent post in the Jnana/Advaita section, he refers to the fact that he is unable to do anything other than simply sitting in silence.
This is much the case with me also. But far from being an obstacle, it's a blessing. Our intense bhakti & practices have ripened the nervous system, and the energy has built up to the level where we are quite literally FORCED INTO SURRENDER. I discovered this yesterday.
I was overloading even from just spending a few minutes sitting in silence. Or even listening to an MP3 of Adyashanti talking would send me into overload. I just could not do anything spiritual at all. I went into a beautiful huge Cathedral/Church on the lower east side, and kneeling at the bench, I just surrendered. The personal will was desperately trying to regain previously experienced freedom of residing as the Self. The personal will was incapable of achieving this. Frustrated to point of absolute Surrender, I just offered up the personal will saying "Father, THY, not MY, will be done."
This morning when I awoke, identification had just gone altogether, and once again realized my true nature as the empty, formless, blissful, awareness within which all forms arise and disappear. All sense of the body-mind being "me" was gone. Total freedom from suffering, freedom from identification.
The ego does its bit. It longs intensely for its own dissolution into the Self, and it practices intensely to achieve its purpose. But the ego or practices don't actually take one to enlightenment. Practices help ripen the nervous system to receive grace and the ego actually gets forced into surrender by the very frustration of its desire for the Self. So don't regard overload symptoms as a problem, they are a sign that you've done all you can as an ego, and you need to hand over the reigns to grace. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jul 26 2013 12:58:24 PM |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2013 : 10:56:46 AM
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Josh,
Your progress over the last few weeks has been very inspiring
May I make a request of you to create a thread in the books sections on TPP so that your insight an others may not get lost within this thread. I am only on week two which I think so far has been pretty eye opening but I am still far from being able to give the process a proper review unlike yourself.
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2013 : 12:18:15 PM
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I'm starting TPP and would be grateful for a thread on it but you give tons already Mr. Anderson and its fine finding your posts where ever they are.
And Mr. Anderson I've got to keep this comment of yours from above in my mind instead of freaking out:
"So don't regard overload symptoms as a problem, they are a sign that you've done all you can as an ego, and you need to hand over the reigns to grace."
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Headaches & Head Imbalances
