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maverick angel
France
42 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 08:32:08 AM
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http://youtu.be/TcMkY3e7LNQ
I was watching this video of Mooji called Kundalini or Pure Self. I like Mooji but find his attitude to kundalini strange. The woman is clearly sincere and has had a profound experience. When Mooji first talks about kundalini I felt that he hadn't experienced it, at least not as I do. Then later, when the girl asks him directly, he rather disparagingly says, 'My dear, that is childs play!'. I don't think it was helpful to basically tell her that her kundalini awakening is meaningless. What do you think? |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 08:38:00 AM
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 5:31:23 PM
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Hi Maverick,
Yes, the lady in this video is clearly going through a kundalini awakening and needs some guidance on how to work through that effectively and safely. What Mooji offers her instead is advaita teaching. I think, from watching the video, that Mooji is aware that he is not offering her what she really needs. In this case Mooji needs to adapt his teaching to fit the student.
Christi |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 6:53:58 PM
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Hi Maverick,
Thank you. The video was very informative on Mooji's perspective.
Best, Jeff |
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maverick angel
France
42 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2013 : 01:35:47 AM
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| Is advaita teaching a kind of intellectual realisation, does it occur, without kundalini? Is it the inner silence without the ecstacy? I'm curious because I like Mooji, but theres clearly a problem here. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2013 : 05:20:22 AM
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Hi Maverick,
Advaita teaching is based around the realization of a state of unity (refered to as the supreme state), through verbal and non verbal instruction. So in a sense it is partly an intellectual exercise, but the realization is beyond the intellect. The primary practice is self-inquiry.
It can occur for a limited period of time without the awakening of kundalini. But if kundalini is not awakened, simply attaining a state of unity through advaitic teaching will cause kundalini to awaken. It also will not necessarily cause it to awaken in a safe manner as no direction is given to channel the energy along safe routes.
A state of unity, or the supreme state, can only be reached and made permanent once kundalini is awakened and the purification process is mostly complete.
Christi |
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maverick angel
France
42 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2013 : 11:39:08 AM
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| Thanks Christi, this is what I thought, kundalini leading to realization or realization leading to kundalini, either way kundalini is in the equation. So, in fact,in this respect Mooji is wronging what he is teaching, which is a shame. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2013 : 2:27:29 PM
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Hi Maverick,
This is one powerful video!! Thanks for sharing - waves of ecstatic bliss watching this. 
My perspective is that I think you (and perhaps others who have commented here) are gravely misunderstanding his message. Not once in this video does he give the impression that Kundalini awakening is meaningless. He is saying clearly, concisely and beautifully that yes, these symptoms are real, but only from the perspective of the body-mind. Toward the end he says, none of this is the real thing, including the ability to be in two places at once or any other siddhis. When asked if he has experienced it, he clearly states yes, it is child's play compared to being one with what is.
Kundalini awakening (as necessary as it might be) is still only an experience (or series of experiences) in Consciousness. Not Consciousness itself. He is simply trying to clarify this. He is an Advaita teacher, and a fantastic one IMHO. This video illustrates the simplicity and beauty of his being and his teachings. Thank you again for sharing.
Love,
kami
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2013 : 9:51:24 PM
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Hi Kami,
I wasn't questioning the truth of what Mooji is saying in this video. What he says is true. I was questioning the relevance and usefulness of what he says for the lady he is speaking to. He only really says two things to her, firstly that the experience of kundalini that she is going through is not the end of the spiritual journey, and that if she wants to she can "simply rest with what is and allow whatever happens to happen". When he says that second one, he seems a little hesitant, and rightly so. Simply resting with what is and allowing whatever happens to happen can put a powerful draw on the kundalini energy from the root chakra.
She has already said that she is going through ups and downs with the energetic experience, so a practice that can accentuate kundalini without giving any safe direction to the process could result in her having a lot of problems energy-wise. "Not much fun" as Mooji says.
This is why teaching advaita to everyone who comes to you is not necessarily a responsible thing to do. It can leave some without the practices they need, and others with practices that they are not yet ready for.
Christi
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 06:43:33 AM
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Christi,
In the video, the woman states that she didn't know about Mooji when she signed up for the satsang. He is an Advaita teacher, and in my opinion, gave her the most sound advice - to not get attached to energy experiences.
Too bad he doesn't do what "should" be done, according to our "correct" opinions.
kami |
Edited by - kami on Jan 24 2013 09:47:50 AM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 09:35:08 AM
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Hi there,
I haven't watched the video...too long for my limited internet quota 
But I've been to Mooji's satsangs.Even if what he says may not appeal to me,you and others...but one thing for sure his presence is pure Love n Joy.
I have a friend who was pulled out from an immanent suicide by Mooji.Try to tell her he's not good ...
As for me personally I love him because he's number one supporter & donator for the animals shelter in Tiru.
Two years back,when a devotee of Ramana was hit by a truck & her leg amputated. Mooji and his devotees were the first in the hospital to give financial support and blood donation.He was a tool to save the life of two sisters so far....can't but hold gratitude & respect towards what he and his devotees are doing.
Much Love.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 09:53:09 AM
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Hi Kami,
I don't think there are correct opinions, or incorrect opinions, just opinions.
What I did feel from watching this video is that Mooji does not seem to have a deep understanding about the relationship between kundalini and liberation. That they are in fact the same thing. He seems to be saying that you have to choose between one or the other. There is no reason of course that he should have a deep understanding about kundalini. It is not a requirement for an advaita teacher. Some people are born awake.
Not getting attached to energy experiences is certainly sound advice. But the lady in this video could end up leaving the conversation thinking that kundalini is basically just a barrier and a distraction from liberation rather than a force for liberation. That's what troubles me about this approach to teaching. She could go home, do nothing in terms of spiritual practices other than to let things be, her kundalini could go back to sleep in a year or so and that could be the end of her spiritual journey for this lifetime. Certainly if she followed Mooji's advice to the letter it is quite likely that that is what would happen.
So this is the danger of advaita, where the cart is put way ahead of the horse. If people are not ripe (ripened by the process of spiritual purification which is kundalini), they aren't going to "get it". And if they don't get it, they can be left thinking that there is nothing to do, or even worse, that doing anything in terms of spiritual practice is an impediment to liberation. And so, doing nothing, they remain unliberated.
Of course, I hope that doesn't happen to this lady. I hope she finds a spiritual path that can give her the tools that she needs to bring herself to the point where she is ripe. Or maybe she is already ripe and ready to drop? But in many cases what I see happening with students who have a relationship with an advaita teacher, is more along the lines of the former scenario, slow progress due to the lack of effective spiritual practices and, quite often, an attachment to views about what it means to be liberated, rather than any direct experience of liberation.
Christi |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 11:47:22 AM
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Christi,
Thanks for clarifying. While there is truth that there is an energetic component to liberation, I don't know that Kundalini and liberation are the same thing. Depends on how you are defining liberation I suppose. Plenty of examples of very active Kundalini and being unliberated.
Nothing occurs by accident. Including this woman meeting this particular teacher at this particular moment. Our ways may not jive with his, but that does not mean it was wrong for this woman. Perhaps this is exactly what she needed to see beyond the energy? Who are we to judge? From one video (or any number), I am not in a position to comment on Mooji's understanding.
Is there only "one" way? We will all get to it in our own time, in our own unique way.
kami
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 12:28:43 PM
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Hello all,
I found nothing inappropriate about Mooji's response. When people approach him, he is fairly consistent in doing two things: pointing them to what is changeless and ever-present, and cutting through their attachment to what is transient/temporary (thoughts, experiences, emotions, etc.). When people get too attached to or distracted by thoughts, he points beyond them or tries to bring the person back to inquiry. This is what he does and is presumably why people come to him.
In light of what he points to, kundalini symptoms and energy experiences are no different than thoughts; they are transient and not the Self. We yogis may place greater importance on kundalini experiences than on thoughts, but even Yogani considers them scenery and not the end goal.
It's been a while since I saw the video, but I don't remember her asking for help with kundalini problems. My recollection is that she was looking for validation of her experiences and he was pointing beyond them.
Namaste |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 8:51:17 PM
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Hi Kami,
quote:
While there is truth that there is an energetic component to liberation, I don't know that Kundalini and liberation are the same thing. Depends on how you are defining liberation I suppose. Plenty of examples of very active Kundalini and being unliberated.
I mean by that that kundalini is the process of purification which leads to liberation, upon which liberation is dependent. So essentially they are the same thing. Liberation is a whole body affair mostly involving the crown and the heart. It is really a coming into and functioning from the open heart as love once obstructions to clear seeing have fallen away in silence.
It is mentioned here in the main lessons:
"By the way, neuro-biologically speaking, the jivan mukti/christ stage corresponds with the union of inner silence and ecstatic conductivity evolving up from everywhere in the body, reaching maturity in the head, and then migrating back down into the heart where the spiritual rebirth occurs. So the heart is where we will end up with all this. The heart is the final home of our enlightenment in this body, with the neuro-biology of the whole body supporting that. There is much to do in setting the stage for this final outcome, and that is what AYP is about." [from lesson 274]
So there is an energetic aspect (kundalini) and an aspect of silence and knowing (jnana), the latter being what Mooji teaches. Could it happen if the energetic side of the equation is ignored? Yes, because silence causes kundalini to rise. So all paths lead to God. All I am saying is that it could be a slower (much slower) and more bumpy ride.
All the best
Christi |
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kristlynne
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2015 : 4:32:59 PM
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@Christi
Hello,
I had a similar response to the video and appreciate your insight. Out of curiousity what would you recommend to the young woman in the video in terms of practice? I am currently learning to balance my awakened kundalini and have a daily sadhana, but feel that a resource with advice/meditations for balancing my particular dosha would be helpful. Thank you |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2015 : 5:45:40 PM
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Hi Kristlynne,
Welcome to the forum!
quote:
Out of curiousity what would you recommend to the young woman in the video in terms of practice? I am currently learning to balance my awakened kundalini and have a daily sadhana, but feel that a resource with advice/meditations for balancing my particular dosha would be helpful. Thank you
That's an easy one to answer, especially as this is the AYP support forums and I teach AYP! I would recommend AYP. 
Simply start at the beginning of the main lessons here, and work your way through. All the practices are described in detail one by one so you can build up an effective and safe practice over time.
Speaking more broadly, any yoga or spiritual system which is built on a holistic approach to awakening, incorporating energetic practices as well as practices which lead to the cultivation of silence and knowledge (jnana).
This is not to say that advaita does not have its place in yoga. It does. But it has to come at the right time and not before, when the practitioner is ready.
Personally I do not recommend people to adjust their spiritual practice according to their dosha and it is not recommended in the AYP main lessons either. The process of spiritual transformation and awakening is something that is much bigger than things like doshas. The doshas are changed and transformed by the whole awakening process as the body becomes enlivened and ecstatic and the mind becomes more purified.
As the journey unfolds we can use our diet in a particular way to help balance out the changes that are occurring and having an understanding of doshas and their relationship to specific foods can be useful for that.
See the Ayurveda diet guidelines.
Christi |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2015 : 7:50:01 PM
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Just to chime in and add to Christi's excellent response...Spinal Breathing Pranayama in particular can be helpful in balancing kundalini, because we sweep from the root to the brow, and that has a globally purifying effect, establishing balance between top and bottom, as well as left and right. Deep Meditation (inner silence) is the prerequisite for SBP.
Inner Silence + Ecstasy = Enlightenment
(As has been observed, the aforementioned No-Ego teacher may be lacking in the department of ecstasy, making his equation a little limp, flaccid, and incomplete. But most teachers like that tend to be lacking in color, texture, and vibrant-explosive-aliveness...which is fine, because that is their trip, and their choice.) |
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kristlynne
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2015 : 1:21:44 PM
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| Thank you Christi and Bodhi Tree, I really appreciate your responses. I've been practicing Kundalini yoga meditations (kriyas) for nearly a year, including Kirtan kriya, Sodarshan, Sat and a Pranayama meditation with regulated breathing patterns which has on several occasions caused the sexual energy to move up into my second and third chakras and seems to correspond to the bliss and ecstacy that Yogani has described from the little I have read of his early AYP lessons. I feel the energy actively responding during the Kirtan kriya, moving from my crown to third eye. I was hoping to refine my daily practice now, since I feel that despite being a good base, I seem to have plateaued, or rather, I rarely feel energy elsewhere, like in my heart chakra, throat. I can always find Kundalini if I focus on my body, but usually there is no need, because it is usually sitting at my third eye. There is a slight pressure but never pain. I tried the spinal breathing and 'I am' meditations twice yesterday--they began that blissful energy emanating from my root chakra up into my navel. The experience is similar to the other pranayam I mentioned. Anyhow, any resources or advice would be welcome. Peace:) |
Edited by - kristlynne on May 31 2015 5:40:44 PM |
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kristlynne
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2015 : 1:36:43 PM
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| I should mention that the original inner connunction occured Sept 2012. Kundalini may have been active before then but I was oblivious. I didn't realize what had occured until a year later, and went from being a regular meditator to a daily meditator. Just thought this might be relevant. Sorry for all the typos--my phone has been a bit glitchy lately. Thanks again! |
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Dogboy
USA
2192 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2015 : 3:35:36 PM
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quote:
I was hoping to refine my daily practice now, since I feel that despite being a good base, I seem to have plateaued, or rather, I rarely feel energy elsewhere, like in my heart chakra, throat. I can always find Kundalini if I focus on my body, but usually there is no need, because it is usually sitting at my third eye. There is a slight pressure but never pain. I tried the spinal breathing and 'I am' meditations twice yesterday--they began that blissful energy emanating from my root chakra up into my navel. The experience is similar to the other pranayam I mentioned.
The third eye is the first place I knew I was on the right track, very similar to your description. As your continue practice, there is change and refinement, always. Enjoy the ride with Guru Inyou, kundalini will do the driving! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2015 : 5:30:45 PM
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Hi Kristlynne,
It sounds like you are doing very well with your practice. If you simply continue with your practices everything will unfold as it should. The heart will open when the time is right as will the other chakras so there is no need to worry. The most important thing is to cultivate inner silence every day through meditation. That way you will develop the serenity, equanimity and inner calm that you will need to be able to deal with the highs and lows of ecstasy that come with the later stages of the path. In the end yoga is not about experiencing this or that state, whatever that state may be, but going beyond all experiences into unity and divine love. Inner silence is the key to bringing about That as well as to being able to manage the waves of kundalini that happen on the way there.
Christi
p.s. Reading through the main lessons and tantra lessons will give you a good understanding of how far you have come and where you have to go. Even if you don't take on any more practices at this time, or for a while to come, it is very useful to know what is happening from someone who has already walked the path. |
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kristlynne
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2015 : 7:03:31 PM
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| This may not be the appropriate forum thread, but since you've been so helpful I thought I'd try here first. I tried to add spinal breathing and deep meditation to my nearly 1 hour daily practice. I'd been doing this other practice for almost a year and felt ready to progress. For two days I did both, my practice and 10 minutes spinal breathing, 20 minutes meditation. I felt great until the third day. I did spinal breathing and meditation that morning and felt strongly I should not continue with more (a major bummer since I had not missed a day of my original practice. Anyway it felt like the right choice but difficult.) I kept doing the meditation and spinal breathing twice a day because I was feeling so much bliss, but since then I haven't been able to add back my other kriyas. I did both yesterday and could not sleep without taking valerian root--energy (good feeling, but inconvenient) rushing through me. Today I cut the S Breathing & Deep Med to 5 minutes and ten minutes--did one of my kriyas and felt I should stop. Just wondering if anyone has experience determining when it is time to drop one practice and do another, or incorporating is better? I get some stability (intellectual anyway) from doing the ones I am familiar with. Thanks so much. |
Edited by - kristlynne on Jun 02 2015 9:07:00 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2015 : 02:58:51 AM
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Hi Kristlynne,
What you are experiencing is the doubling up effect that can happen if you add one energetic practice on to another. Both together, become twice as powerful and if the body is not ready for that, you can run into problems such as the ones you are describing.
AYP on its own is a powerful practice, so adding it onto an already existing kriya practice can be problematic. It could be best to chose one or the other. The alternative is to cut right back on timings, so you are doing shorter sessions of the AYP practices and also of your regular kriya practice. If you chose that route, you would have to experiment to find a mix of practices that works for you and which you can sustain over the long term.
Christi
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kristlynne
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2015 : 05:41:12 AM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you very much for your response. For now I may return to my original practice to stabilize things and then slowly try to bring AYP back in. AYP lessons were so effective it would be ideal to find a balance with shorter versions of both. I thought integrating would fill in some perceived gaps but balance is essential. I am grateful for all of your help since I joined the forum.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4364 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2015 : 1:26:24 PM
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Hi Kristlynne,
Sounds like you are on the right track.
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Mooji and kundalini
