|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
boris
Norway
68 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 21 2013 : 7:41:59 PM
|
| I am thinking about changing to breath meditation cause of overload.But doe breathe meditation make you feel happy the same way iam meditation does? |
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 01:59:04 AM
|
hello Boris
and what is the alternative? staying with mantra meditation and suffering from unhapiness due to overload? 
one should be wiser than that...the body is already telling you what you need and you should respect that
when one has to self pace,one sees that we tend to create attachment even to our practice....not so good on the path of liberation right?
everything keeps on flowing and changing even our practices...so go with that!
all the best
TGIIY |
 |
|
|
jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 09:13:13 AM
|
Hi Boris,
Breath meditation will have a similar effect to the I am mantra. The key is "relaxing into" the meditation and not trying to compare them in your mind.
Also, if you are experiencing overload, maybe try "just listening" to relaxing music for a while as a meditation. If you "just listen", you will begin to notice that the music actually seems to get louder.
Regards, Jeff |
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 09:29:04 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by boris
I am thinking about changing to breath meditation cause of overload.But doe breathe meditation make you feel happy the same way iam meditation does?
Yes.. I am sure breath meditation will make you happy as well.
When the mantra is bringing up too much purification, just focusing on the breath will take you to the same place but not add the purification due to the vibrations of the mantra.
Here is Yogani's lesson on this
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
Replacing the Mantra with Breath as the Object of Meditation
True meditation always involves the use of an object, and systematically refining our awareness of that object in the mind. In AYP the object we use is a mantra (actually, a progressive system of mantras), which has been found to be highly effective for cultivating abiding inner silence in the nervous system.
For those who are over-sensitive to mantra meditation, no matter how it is approached, it is suggested to use an object for meditation other than a mantra. There are certainly alternative ways to cultivate abiding inner silence in the nervous system. An ancient and reliable method of meditation used widely in the Buddhist system, and elsewhere, involves using the breath as object, rather than mantra.
We can meditate using our breath in the same way we meditate with mantra. The procedure is the same. Starting out, we sit with eyes closed and easily bring our attention to our breath. When we notice that our attention is no longer on our breath, we easily bring it back to the breath. If our attention and the breath have become refined, we come back to the breath at that refined level, just the way we would bring our attention back to a refined level of the mantra if that is where we are when we notice we are off the object of our meditation. And just as with mantra meditation, in breath meditation there can be thoughts or no thoughts with awareness of breath. We don’t try and push thoughts out. We just easily favor the breath, no matter what else may be going on. So, the basic instructions for breath meditation are the same as the instructions for mantra meditation.
There are a few differences between mantra meditation and breath meditation though, and we should point those out.
Some may ask, what is the object we call breath? Is it the sensation of air moving in the nostrils, in the throat, in the lungs? Is it the rising and falling of the chest? As we begin breath meditation, and get into it, we may find it is one of these, or all of these. That is fine. Whatever we perceive the object of breath to be, that is what it is. It is not necessary to physically locate our awareness of the breath. It may start in one place, and move naturally. We can be comfortable with that, easily favor whatever it is, and we will be refining our awareness, purifying our nervous system, and cultivating abiding inner silence.
In time, we will find that our attention will go to a very refined aspect of breath that we could call the "energy impulse" of the breath, without a fixed physical location. It is a lot like a refined mantra, and we can be very deep with it. As we become advanced in our practice, we may find ourselves picking up that refined energy impulse of the breath as soon as we sit to meditate, just the way an advanced mantra meditator will be picking up a refined level of the mantra as soon as the eyes are closed. We can’t force any of this refinement to happen. It happens by itself as our method of meditation and the object we are using become baked into our nervous system. This is why regularity of practice is so important – twice daily, whether we are using mantra or breath.
Breath meditation has been found by over-sensitive meditators to be more gentle than mantra meditation, and much less likely to cause symptoms of excessive purification in the nervous system. Of course, there is no guarantee that it will not, but the chances of an over-sensitive meditator finding a stable practice with breath meditation are much better.
When using breath meditation and going deep, as with any effective form of meditation, the breath may naturally suspend briefly from time to time. This is a sign that metabolism is low, that we are in deep silence, and that effective purification is occurring. If, during a breath suspension, we become aware that our attention is not on the breath, we may not find much physical breath or subtle energy impulse of breath to favor. If that is the case, we can just easily be in the stillness we are experiencing in the moment. When we notice the physical breath or the faint energy impulse of breath again, then we can return to that at whatever level of refinement we find ourselves. This is the primary difference between breath meditation and mantra meditation. When breath suspends in mantra meditation, we can still favor the impulse of the mantra. When breath suspends in breath meditation, we just relax in stillness until the impulse of breath returns. This is one of the reasons why breath meditation is milder in its effects, which is just what the over-sensitive meditator needs.
We self-pace breath meditation just the way we would mantra meditation, according to our comfort in practice, keeping in mind that all spiritual practices have delayed effects. So we will be wise to start off modestly. If we have found it necessary to self-pace ourselves down to 5 minutes per session with mantra meditation (short or long mantra), we should consider starting there with breath meditation, and increasing our time gradually, a few minutes at a time over multiple sessions. That is if we find that we are stable using breath as our object of meditation. If we get all the way up to 20 minutes per session without any serious disruption, it is suggested to stay at that duration of meditation for at least six months, and perhaps indefinitely. While other systems using breath meditation may involve much longer sittings, an over-sensitivity to meditation may be a good reason to stick with the 20 minute limit. It also gives us the option to consider additional practices in the AYP system, without throwing the overall time commitment to spiritual practices out of balance with the rest of our life.
As mentioned earlier, while working to stabilize our meditation routine, it is suggested to discontinue spinal breathing pranayama and any other energy stimulating practices or activities we may be engaged in. And we should not be trying to do more than one kind of meditation while we are stabilizing our practice.
Breath meditation is a very good practice that can effectively cultivate a foundation of abiding inner silence, which is the primary prerequisite for undertaking additional practices we may be drawn to in due course on our spiritual path. With regard to moving through the AYP lessons, using breath meditation as our foundation instead of mantra meditation, it can be done. But there are a few caveats we should mention.
Since we are using breath meditation to find a balance with an over-sensitivity that has resulted in excessive energy symptoms, we should be mindful of the energy implications in many of the AYP practices, beginning with spinal breathing pranayama.
Also, we should be aware that spinal breathing and breath meditation are more similar than spinal breathing and mantra meditation. So we should be well-established with breath meditation before we attempt spinal breathing. These are two different practices, involving two different procedures. In this case, both are working with breath in different ways, so we want to be clear about what we are doing with breath meditation before we attempt to add spinal breathing. And there is the energy aspect, so over-sensitive practitioners are advised to be on alert. The same goes for other energy practices, such as mudras, bandhas, kumbhaka, tantric sexual methods, etc.
Those engaged in breath meditation may find a more comfortable path of additional practices leading through samyama, self-inquiry and karma yoga (service), which focus less directly on the cultivation of ecstatic conductivity (internal energy flow), and may be more manageable for practitioners who have inner energy sensitivity already present. These practices naturally expand the expression (movement) of inner silence in our life, and will bring the necessary ecstatic conductivity and radiance along with less risk of energy overloads. Samyama, self-inquiry and karma yoga are also excellent vehicles for surging bhakti, which over-sensitive meditators usually have an abundance of.
Whatever additional practices are undertaken, prudent self-pacing is always the watch-word. Step-by-step. One thing at a time. And be sure to stabilize each practice, or level of practice, before moving on.
|
|
|
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2013 : 2:30:32 PM
|
My guess is it has more to do with the person and at what point along the path they happen to be. I have done silent sitting meditation (twice a day, 1 h on average) for at least a year regularly at one point (before trying out other practices, semi-regularly and on and off in the years after that). Along that time the methods used varied from small circulation, spot-focus, reverse breathing, forced concentration, breath & silent meditation. Now doing AYP daily, it is still very hard to compare, even along a simple dimension of 'happiness,' with the only exception being whether the meditation was given enough time to deepen. For that reason, I always paired the 'energy' side with a silent sitting right after.
All in all, if you've come to meditation, and have found a personal reason to keep at it, I am sure you will continue to feel some form of happiness no matter what form you do, as long as it is deep enough. |
|
|
|
Shivadas
Norway
4 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 04:03:04 AM
|
I have been practicing meditation for some years and have mostly been practicing breath meditation. I am currently exploring the AYP practice and finding it very enriching but I even though I now practice the AYAM mantra I feel drawn to revert back to my old practice and always use my rest period at the end of my DP practice to just rest in the witnessing of the breath for some time (sometimes as long as 20-30 minutes).
I can feel the mantra's calming effekt on my mind when I end the repetition, and I feel that the mantra always leads me to a more quiet and clear place, so I see the value of the mantra as a tool to experience more inner calm.
But I also feel that the mantra is a doing that I experience as disturbing on a subtle level, and I often feel I want to let go of the mantra and just be silently witnessing.
With breath I experience it easier to just be witnessing and witness the spontaneous rising and falling of breath. With breath I also find it easier to watch how it arise from a silence at the core of my being, and how it falls back. There is the physical breath, and the impulse to breath, and the silence where the impulse to breath arise from and goes back into.
I have read Yoganis variation on Deep Meditation using the breath and was happy to find this variation. But I see that he gives this technique for over-sensitive meditators. I do not feel over-sensitive and have had no negative experiences using the AYAM mantra, but have what I feel as a personal preference for meditation on the breath.
Any thoughts on this topic?
Concerning the witness I feel that this has become well integrated as my center of orientation and this was clear to me even before I started to explore AYP. But I want to explore the AYP system because I am impressed by Yoganis experience, knowledge and integration of the different elements of the yogic, tantrik and vendantic Schools and I feel that this Open Source system of yoga is a very important contribution to the world. I have been part of the yoga circus in both the east and west for many years, and have experienced the the "dark side" of it and seen how teachers take over their students lives and disempower them
Yoganis teachings gives the Tools for each individual to find their own path and I experience it as a path of self-empowerment. I truly believe in the words "the guru is in you" and that the teachers true purpose is to give this knowledge to their students and help them to find their own path, their own dharma.
|
|
|
|
Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 05:29:29 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shivadas
I
[quote]Concerning the witness I feel that this has become well integrated as my center of orientation and this was clear to me even before I started to explore AYP. But I want to explore the AYP system because I am impressed by Yoganis experience, knowledge and integration of the different elements of the yogic, tantrik and vendantic Schools and I feel that this Open Source system of yoga is a very important contribution to the world.
Hi Shivadas,
I totally second this opinion with you!!!
I came here, while I was having my own practice for years, I am satisfied with it, but was looking for answers on experiences and was looking for more tools for my meditation practice. I found this all in AYP.
What I do is follow my own inner guru and take from these beautiful AYP lessons a practice and integrate this in my own practice.
I do this for a few weeks, till its is comfortable, see what it does.
For instance I do every morning my own mantra, SB and deep meditation. Last summer I started with Samyama(AYP) and later on with solar centering (AYP). Both practices I do every day since then. I stay with my own mantra and SB. For me this works. I am very happy to have found AYP, and found also lots of similarities with my own practice.
My advice, do not change too much in one time, and stay with it for some weeks.
Enjoy your practice,
|
|
|
|
Shivadas
Norway
4 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 08:41:13 AM
|
| Thank you, Charliedog, for your quick reply, I really appreciate it :-) |
|
|
|
So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 3:38:04 PM
|
Hello Shivadas
quote:
With breath I experience it easier to just be witnessing and witness the spontaneous rising and falling of breath. With breath I also find it easier to watch how it arise from a silence at the core of my being, and how it falls back. There is the physical breath, and the impulse to breath, and the silence where the impulse to breath arise from and goes back into.
Yes this is understood completely coming from former ZAZEN sitting. Are you practicing Spinal Breathing as well?
The difference is pretty big and pretty subtle as well AYAM or IAM is a duel pole Mantra some can feel this rise and fall immediately for others it takes longer. It can move pretty fast.
This mantra the I or AY part is masculine and goes up the AM or AYAM goes down and is feminine.
In this way it is allot like spinal breathing in the neurobiology and has a deep effect on unwinding impurities in the system and cleans the subconscious not by meaning but by vibratory effect.
The breath meditation you are describing lacks this cleansing ability instead going directly to silence or the still point if successful. If successful there will be the collapse of the witness and Samadhi states which can trigger Kundalini flow very strongly and undirected.
Recommend doing Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation and see what happens.
Be careful and self pace both are far stronger than they look.
You might already be ready for Samyama as well, this may be the part you are missing I know it completed things here.
|
Edited by - So-Hi on Jul 01 2015 5:39:21 PM |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Breath meditation
