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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jun 26 2006 :  1:50:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hm. I know too little of this. If it is the same kind of breathing as I mentioned started in me spontaneously, slow, deep and filling the stomach... do you mean that I only have to add an awareness to the spinal nerve, following it up and down while breathing in and out, to get in control of the energies?

I had such slow breathing during the process last night... do you mean that a visualisation of the spinal nerve in that situation would have redirected the energy and stopped the process? Or does it take a lot of practice?

I am sorry if I bore you with trivial questions. I'm trying my best to read the lessons, but it is very much to read... my vacation this summer will be dedicated to meditation! Promise! ;) I have never done any yoga or meditation in my whole life. The only thing I have to follow is my intuition and it says "accept, relax and follow" when I get those energy-happenings...


Edited by - emc on Jun 26 2006 1:51:25 PM
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Jun 26 2006 :  2:41:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi EMC,
Maybe someone else should help you here. But I will tell you a few things I think. All the energy experiences you describe, and visions and feelings... here in AYP we call it scenery. You seem to be getting a lot of these energy experiences.. and that only means that you are ready big time for spirituality. But your energy is running wild.. and your experiences are sporadic. Having this energy at times, an not having it at others is not the goal.. the goal is to live in constant bliss. What we at AYP try to do is get this energy under control...and to achive this you need to get into a twice a day steady routine of meditation, spinal breathing etc... .

I still suggest you start reading from the beginning.. http://www.aypsite.org/10.html
I know its hard.. esp. when you feel like you are way ahead already, why bother to start from scratch.. Well, if this feeling of God being with you and talking to you feels wonderful.. but only occasional.. with steady practice.. you will feel this presence 24/7. That is what AYP helps us with.. As Yogani puts it "It is all about purification and opening. As our nervous system opens and becomes an increasingly pure vehicle for our vast inner potential, we become a channel for infinite joy and progress in this world. "

The fact that when you prayed you got a "hint of what my important message was".. that was actually being in touch with your inner self.. when you pray very sincerely.. you actually touch that part of you that is beyond the mind.. that part of you that is silence... if you would like to live in this silence.. if you would like to embrace the God within you, you will need to start meditation.. so that you can go beyond your mind.
Yogani says "living all the time with unshakable inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love " "Deep meditation is at the foundation of the whole thing, of course -- in stillness -- pure bliss consciousness. "
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jun 26 2006 :  3:40:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much, Shanti!

So you have a name for it - scenery! =) I appreciate this kind of feed back enormously. You are giving me "hooks", a skeleton to hang my experiences on. It is rather difficult for me to understand all of this, only having good old fashioned christianity to lean on when it comes to spirituality, which I don't find very useful. I am stuck in fixed ideas and expectations and when I get other kind of info it sometimes clashes and I get very confused.

I will try to calm down, read more, get into daily meditation and not bother you with every thought I have. I just want you to know that it feels very good to know that you are here. It feels safe to know I have somewhere to turn to if it becomes very tough. Thank you all!
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Jun 26 2006 :  4:28:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
You can bother us any time EMC.. glad we can help..
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2006 :  06:49:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi emc
I have enjoyed your posts
Please - as Shanti says - your questions are very welcome. We all learn from them and from the energy that comes with your words. Do continue.

quote:
My best friends right now are the trees. I like connecting with trees, feel who they are and present myself to them. They are always very honest and kind.


I have been in love with trees for as long as I can remember. You know....you do long for connection, emc. Remember - enlightenment is just a word. The way I see it, the trees make it possible for me to be my own best friend. Have you considered it this way (in your words):

My best friend right now is myself. I like connecting with myself, feel who I am and present myself to myself. I am always very honest and kind.

This is how I perceive you through your posts, emc; kind and honest.

Also - the best way to get a break from oneself, so that one can befriend oneself, is deep meditation. Luckily you don't need anyone else around for that

In getting to know yourself, everything else connects.

I wish you all the best!

May all your Nows be Here
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2006 :  09:05:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Katrine, beautiful words - bodily reactions when I read your paraphrase of my sentence. I shall think of your message!

Okey, lets throw out another annoying question then:

If there is no judgement, if nothing is actually "better" or "worse", if there is no "good" or "evil"... isn't everything worthless then? Don't you end up in a total anxiety and despair over the meaningless nothingness? I read in a book about meditation that many people start meditating to "get a new life" - to change something bad to something good, perhaps the goal is to get more energy, feel more at ease, get happier, more attractive or whatever. And meditation will eventually ease whatever pain or trouble you have since you get a distance to your life. Your awareness can watch the ego and body from beside and not be bothered with whatever feeling that goes through your body, whatever thought that goes through your mind. It is perhaps a nice way to handle negative feelings. But what about the good feelings? Is the goal to become just as distanced from them as well, since the good feelings are no better than the bad ones? My mind demands logic. If ALL feelings are irrelevant after a while, that must be valid also for the good feelings. So where do you eventually end up?

The "bliss" that is mentioned as the "goal" sounds like a positive feeling. Why is bliss presented as being more "worth" than any other sensation?




Edited by - emc on Jun 27 2006 09:18:14 AM
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2006 :  1:29:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
OK EMC, I take it back.. you cannot ask any more questions.
Just kidding.

Lets skip the word goal.. I may get into trouble for using that word...

There was is a topic "Why Yoga".... http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1240 There are some answers there that might interest you.

With meditation, we try to get in touch with our inner silence. With Samyama, we try to move this inner silence outwards.
Over time with practice, we can actually live in this inner silence 24/7. When this happens or maybe even before that... we actually go through life experiencing the good and the bad through this silence... it is not that you will never be happy again or sad again.. all those feelings will still be there.. but we will not dwell on it..
Jim had explained it really well in this thread. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1104
quote:
The literature says that as we practice, we still grieve over what there is to grieve over, we are sad or joyful when those emotions arise. However we SUFFER less and less.

There's a distinction between pain (which is inextricably human) and suffering (which is a reaction we choose to attach to outselves as a result of pain). And I've found that to be true, though I still catch myself suffering (and am grateful that I'm less tethered to it than before....though if I let it build up, I can imagine getting strongly caught again). Pain just is. Suffering is reaction based on faulty understanding.



Read what Yogani says in this post.. switch a few of the words to fit your question in...It is from this thread.. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1034
quote:
On "becoming the mantra," while we'd all like to "Be here now," the becoming-ness of it is impossible to avoid. It is a matter of point of view. If I am out here in ego and go in on the mantra, I may appear to become the mantra as it and my egoic sense dissolve into stillness, which is my self. If I am in there already (as inner silence - witness), looking from the inside out, then there is no self-becoming as the mantra makes the same journey. The process is the same. Only the point of view is different. In the case of our questioner, he saw his ego self dissolve to become the mantra refining into expanding stillness. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is only an observation of scenery and not an imposition on the procedure of deep meditation itself.

Of course, we cannot intellectually locate ourselves in one point of view or the other -- not organically anyway. Our point of view from ego or stillness is where it is depending on the condition of our neurobiology, and we will describe the experience from that angle accordingly. Over time, the point of view gradually shifts as our sense of self changes from external to internal. Then we can say, "Hey everyone, I'm really here now!"

In truth, we probably won't say much, and just go do the dishes and take out the trash. Nothing changes, even as everything does. We are becoming "That" even though we already are "That." I guess that is why they call it "realization." Realizing something that is already. It is a becoming ... a journey from here to here
...


Hopefully these help..

Edited by - Shanti on Jun 27 2006 2:17:57 PM
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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2006 :  7:36:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

quote:
if there is no judgement, if nothing is actually "better" or "worse", if there is no "good" or "evil"... isn't everything worthless then? Don't you end up in a total anxiety and despair over the meaningless nothingness? I read in a book about meditation that many people start meditating to "get a new life" - to change something bad to something good, perhaps the goal is to get more energy, feel more at ease, get happier, more attractive or whatever. And meditation will eventually ease whatever pain or trouble you have since you get a distance to your life. Your awareness can watch the ego and body from beside and not be bothered with whatever feeling that goes through your body, whatever thought that goes through your mind. It is perhaps a nice way to handle negative feelings. But what about the good feelings? Is the goal to become just as distanced from them as well, since the good feelings are no better than the bad ones? My mind demands logic. If ALL feelings are irrelevant after a while, that must be valid also for the good feelings. So where do you eventually end up?

The "bliss" that is mentioned as the "goal" sounds like a positive feeling. Why is bliss presented as being more "worth" than any other sensation?

Hi EMC,

I'd like to share my thoughts on this from the perspective of my "current neurobiology" as Yogani puts it!

I like this question and am coming to understand in myself that as my delusional thoughts are stripped away and the truth is revealed, an inner joy (or bliss) starts to permeate through my being.

An example of a delusional thought for me might be something like having a temporary emotional reaction like feeling irritated at a friend. Once I investigate the thought which causes this emotional reaction of irritation and where it comes from and "unattach" from it, I become free of this small bit of negativity in my life and am a little lighter or more joyful as a result. More bliss shines through.

Conversely, I might feel an emotional reaction of being tremendously elated or happy after winning at something. Upon further investigation I realize that I am happy because of a thought inside me that says something like "I am something special when I win". Once I investigate this thought and realize it is an equal culprit in making me miserable when I lose, and I understand its delusional nature, I become free or unattached to it and again a little more joy shines through.

To me a joyful or blissful state is how we are supposed to be or feel all the time but that it has been blocked out, like a solar eclipse, by layers of delusional thoughts that create both temporarily positive or temporarily negative emotional reactions.

To me bliss is not a positive emotion, it is our natural resting state and we feel it when we become more clear and free.

Hope this helps,

A
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2006 :  9:12:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your thoughts Andrew..
Very clear... definitely at my current neurobiological understanding level..
They helped me a lot.

Edited by - Shanti on Jun 27 2006 9:15:18 PM
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jul 03 2006 :  12:29:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Ishta – Means, “chosen ideal.” Ishta is at the heart of bhakti yoga, and is that which each person chooses as the ideal to inspire active engagement on the spiritual path.


I have started meditating now. But in total apathy. I have no ishta. Will ishta come to me if I continue meditating?

What is the definition of a "thought"? A lot of things is going on in my mind. What are the thoughts I should let pass by? All images, colours, sounds, spoken words (except mantras from what I understand)??? I define everything that my brain is producing as thoughts. I should not hold on to ANYTHING that my brain produces, or what? Is it a thought to se a "film" of colours and patterns?

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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Jul 03 2006 :  10:48:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Ishta - I remember thinking I didn't have one either. In the end my chosen ideal or "Ishta" has been the truth and my search for my inner and outer truth (whatever that may be).

Congratulations on the meditating, it should help bring some balance and stability to your life. Watch as the relationships around you improve and deepen, your level of calmness rises and the frantic questioning of the mind subsides.

Any thing that is not the mantra to me is a thought. Once you realize you are off the mantra and into any thought, feeling, picture. colour etc., simply bring your mind back to the mantra. This is the process of meditation.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Jul 03 2006 :  10:41:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes no ishta is necessary. The truth is within you.
Having said that however, if at some point you find an ideal (no rush), whether like anthem, or to be with God, or any other one you pick (preferably not worldly or selfish), the desire and devotion will greatly increase the effectiveness of your meditation.
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2006 :  04:35:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
First success. =) I saw one type of meditation theme that Deepak Chopra recommended. To concentrate on the spot on the chest where heart and soul meets. Sort of a meditation on "what's in my heart?". I got a reaction in that spot and I just "knew" I had made contact with myself somehow. Then I felt sorrow coming. Lots and lots of sorrow.

That gave me a sense of wonder... I thought I knew myself by now after looking inwards my whole life from a psychology perspective. I thought there was nothing more to discover. But I understand now that it is my "ego-world" I know pretty well. Not my true self. And I felt I woke up a bit and started wondering again... Wow, I am getting contact with a part in me who responds when I ask for contact. My curiousity of myself is starting to grow.

I have now received three of Yoganis books on the post. =))) Summer readings...
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2006 :  8:53:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Consistent meditation on the Iam mantra is better than any book! but books are good too.
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