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 Is Deep Meditation the same as TM?
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lsmithbco

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2012 :  5:15:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
From the little I've learned about TM without paying the $1500 to take the course, it seems like Deep Meditation is the same thing. Is it?

mikkiji

USA
219 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2012 :  10:14:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit mikkiji's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have practiced TM for 40 years, spent two years with and was personally trained by His Holiness the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi as an initiator of TM in 1976, and have also been involved in AYP for about 5 years, attending two AYP residential retreats as well. From my perspective, the basic TM technique is virtually identical to AYP Deep Meditation. I'm speaking of the actual meditation procedure here. There are vast philosophical and procedural differences in HOW ONE LEARNS each meditation technique, but very little difference in how one actually practices them. The "I Am" mantra is, in fact, one of the mantras we use in TM, a bija or seed mantra, although the Sanskrit pronunciation which Maharishi chanted to me was, at least to my ear, somewhat different, and it is only one of many mantras we may choose. Be that as it may, although the basic technique of AYP Deep Meditation is nearly identical to TM--how to think the mantra, how to handle the arising of thoughts and returning to the mantra, the time of meditation, etc.--these basic mechanics are sometimes word-for-word exactly what Maharishi taught me to say when teaching meditation, in my very long experience teaching meditation and my last 5 years involved with AYP I have come to appreciate the role of a trained teacher and personal instruction in giving the novice meditator the best possible start. One CAN (that is to say, it IS possible) to get a good, proper and totally correct start with AYP just from reading what to do. BUT, it is also possible that the new learner may just not be getting it all quite right. The role of the instructor and personal instruction is to give an instruction, have the learner do it, ask a question and, based on the response to that question, give either further instructions, provide a refinement or restatement of the previous instruction, or ask the learner other questions to determine what steps to take next. It is a sort of guided instruction tree with nearly infinite branches, and since everyone has a different path of responses, and Maharishi basically gave us every possible response to each step and how to proceed from each point, we are able to guide a new meditator seamlessly AND CORRECTLY to a good and proper start. In addition, we have a structured guided checking procedure in TM whereby we can make certain that the meditator is, in fact, practicing correctly, and if not, to correct any subtle errors in mechanics or technique. We thereby "tune up" all new meditators several times during the 5-day course of instruction.

Do I think that TM is worth $1,500? Well, in fact, it has infinite value, BUT in real terms, that IS an absurd amount in my opinion, which is why, after Maharishi left us and the TM organization jacked up the price, I left the organization and teach independently at the prices I charged back in 1976. That seems reasonable to me, and as long as I don't call it "Transcendental Meditation or The TM Technique", I stay out of legal hassles with them. I applaud Yogani for distilling the core of the TM meditation procedure and setting it out for the masses to pick up and try--it is a phase change in the science of Consciousness. But, it is also sort of like trying to learn Calculus from a book--unless you are a very gifted mathematician, you really do need, at some points, some personal intervention, a give and take that is just not available here on these forums in the real-time needed for complete transmission of proper technique. I know that many thousands, or perhaps tens of thousands, have successfully learned AYP meditation, and it has changed their lives. I also want to reiterate that, in a perfect world, a trained personal instructor would be available to give the novice the best possible start.

Because, as Maharishi always told us, "Well begun is half done."

Namaste,
Michael
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lsmithbco

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  10:40:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Michael, for your thoughtful and detailed reply. I appreciate that you took the time and effort to do so. I tried to email you, but I got a message saying I hadn't made enough posts to email others. (What's that about?) Anyway, if you are able to email me, would you, please? I'd like to follow up with you on the topic of personal instructors.

Many thanks.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  2:33:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Ismithbco,

quote:
I tried to email you, but I got a message saying I hadn't made enough posts to email others. (What's that about?)


You have to make at least 5 posts in the forum to be able to email other members. It cuts down on people using the forum for advertising purposes only.

Christi
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  3:18:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Michael for a very clear and detailed explanation. I have had no experience with TM but extensive experience with Iyengar style Asana and Pranayama and in the past 8 years with AYP so I fully understand what you are saying about instruction. AYP worked very well for me because of my prior yoga training but I had often suspected that the meditation technique was quite similar to TM and you have confirmed it. I always have had respect for the technique but the fees charged by TM always brought to mind the phrase "used mantra salesman" No offense ;)
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  8:46:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Michael very interesting, and good for you for bucking the trend and doing what you feel is right.
I had heard from others that TM gave people their own personal mantra.

Yes, all necessary instructions are in Yogani's writings, but I have noticed that some people can't stick to easy meditation, and want a lot more words.

Also, a certain type of person will value instruction more that costs $1500, and will buckle down and persevere for that reason. Osho also teaches that kind of personality.

Other people, like me, believe that the free instructions are very valuable, and it is up to me to persevere and thereby add my own value. This applies to a whole lot of other things in life too...
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mikkiji

USA
219 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  10:54:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit mikkiji's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm an open book, I just enjoy spreading the... wisdom, let's say... Actually, Maharishi did tell us, at some point many many years ago, that "giving it away", at least in the West, would not be a good idea, because he felt (and I agreed with him at the time and even more so now!) that we place value on those things we have to work to get--things that are free are afforded less "value", simply because they ARE free. I have taught some people for free--family members and such--and for the most part, they have not usually stuck with it, while many I taught decades ago (for fees ranging from $35. for college kids to $150 for working adults) are still regular meditators. Also, There are only a very finite number of mantras we use, so it's not exactly that "TM gave people their own personal mantra", but that the several dozens of mantras we use are assigned individually, based on very objective criteria. But, yes, some people are not intuitive learners when it comes to meditation, and some people tend to over-intellectualize, but both types (and many others) tend to make many people incapable of learning correctly without very specific steps guiding them into and through the process.
Michael
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AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2012 :  11:08:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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yogani

USA
5102 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2012 :  2:57:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Michael:

Just wanted to say thank you for your many contributions to the AYP community, and the clarity you bring with your background as a long time meditation teacher trained by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Mantra meditation has been around for a long time and can be found in many traditions, East and West, but no one systematized the training of it and the public promotion of it to the degree that the Maharishi did. In that he stands alone, not only in methodology of teaching, but also the fact that he trained tens of thousands of teachers like yourself. It is unfortunate that business decisions made along the way ended up decimating the vast teaching resource that the Maharishi so painstakingly created. I have great admiration for people like yourself, who keep on teaching TM with limited support.

As for AYP, it does not come from a TM teacher. Rather, it comes from a wide-ranging exploration of many traditions, taking the best elements from each and integrating them all together into a cohesive "common sense" system that can be used by self-directed practitioners around the world. So it is a different thing. That is the path I have taken over 40+ years, so it stands to reason that AYP reflects that sort of open approach. In giving it back, the hope has been that others could benefit as I have.

Sometimes AYP has been called a TM derivative. Other times it has been called a Kriya Yoga derivative. Other times a form of Kundalini Yoga, Tantra Yoga, Hatha Yoga, or other things. Lately, AYP has even been called a Jnana/Advaita (non-duality) teaching. It is not any of these, and it is all of them -- the best elements from all of them integrated together for effective application by self-directed practitioners.

The truth is that each of the traditions is lacking something that other ones have. The goal in developing AYP as a comprehensive instructional knowledge-base and support system has been to cross the lines dividing the traditions and include all the pieces that effectively cultivate human spiritual transformation. No stone has been left unturned.

Spiritual teachings have always had to adapt themselves to fit the times, because world consciousness is always changing. In these times, many are dealing with causes and effects in practices that are quite different than what the dynamic was only 20 or 40 years ago. Everything is moving much faster. This is being reflected in the experiences of spiritual practitioners everywhere, and even in non-practitioners who show up every week asking, "What's going on in me?"

AYP attempts to remain flexible, while providing a full range of tools ("baseline system") that self-directed practitioners can draw upon as they travel the path of human spiritual transformation. It may be an approach whose time has come, with so many feeling the divine light coming from within these days.

As a written teaching, AYP has certain limitations, as you pointed out. It is for people who have an intuitive sense of their journey and are prepared to take responsibility for their spiritual evolution, and who don't require as much detailed assistance as they may get in a hands-on teaching environment (TM certainly excels in that).

On the other hand, AYP has certain advantages. In this "information age," it is able to reach many people around the world with easy-to-access tools like deep meditation, spinal breathing pranayama and many other practices, along with detailed instructions on their application, effects and ongoing management. So while the knowledge is spreading out in a somewhat less concentrated form than one might find sitting at the feet of an expert, it is reaching many more people as a ready-to-use resource. The underlying premise of AYP is that the guru/expert is in each of us, and we hope to provide enough stimulus and knowledge to bring that out in everyone. It is a non-traditional approach for sure, and after nearly 10 years in the public sphere it is still an ongoing experiment. Time will tell. So far, so good.

AYP also (ironically) offers more detailed instruction than most traditional approaches in the important area of self-pacing. It has to, because each independent practitioner must develop skill in regulating their practices according to the causes and effects that are occurring. With world consciousness rising and producing greatly increased spiritual sensitivities, knowing about the application of self-pacing and grounding principles has become important for all practitioners in all the traditions. Times have changed, and spiritual teachings must adapt. AYP is a leader in promoting self-pacing for all kinds of practice, and in that it could be said that the AYP approach is among the safest, even though it is utilizing a very powerful combination of practices. There can be no doubt that the knowledge of self-pacing and grounding being made widely available can help anyone who is working with practices of any kind.

So a broad instructional writing approach like AYP has been able to bring a lot to the table. This does not limit the traditional teaching approaches from expanding their reach to people everywhere. I hope they do. I am all for TM getting its act together to reach as many people across the landscape as possible, and every other tradition as well. The more the merrier. There is no limit to what we can all do collectively to help humanity awaken to its divine destiny.

The guru is in you.

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Bodhi Tree

USA
2800 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2012 :  5:49:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yogani's post above reminds me of a movie I saw recently: Tron Legacy. In the movie a major software company ENCOM is taken over by stakeholders who are profit-motivated (rather than innovatively or creatively motivated), and so when the company releases its latest operating system, one of the board members asks what's new in this latest version. The CEO snidely replies: "We changed the logo."

But the renegade, rebellious son of Flynn (the original mind behind ENCOM) hacks into the system and releases the OS to the public for free. It's the ultimate coup d'tat--a disengagement from the monoliths that seek monopolies and possesive pride.

Anyway, Yogani kind of reminds me of Flynn and his son...except of course that nothing was stolen or hacked (from TM, for instance ), it's just been organized and presented in an open-source way that is far more comprehensive and accessible than previous traditions.

Free knowledge, free forum, free opportunity for seekers to connect and move forward--with no strings attached (except surrender to stillness and divine unfoldment).

Revolutionary, baby, revolutionary.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2012 :  8:52:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Michael wrote:
"we place value on those things we have to work to get--things that are free are afforded less "value", simply because they ARE free."

I think that is true in many cases, but it seems to be slowly fading away with the internet. At least with me, when there is information on the net that costs money, I can often search and find it for free. And I value that free information just as much as paying for it because I know some people charge for it.

Also, to add to Yogani's post, there are people like me who are on the "fringe" of Yoga. I not only wouldn't pay, but I don't like meeting with people to learn stuff. I'm a loner, so his method of teaching is perfect for me, and better than any other.
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yogani

USA
5102 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2012 :  10:22:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Michael wrote:
"we place value on those things we have to work to get--things that are free are afforded less "value", simply because they ARE free."


Hi All:

Not surprisingly, the AYP perspective on value and cost is different.

While it is agreed that we will get out what we put in (with anything), it is not primarily about money in the case of spiritual practices. It is first about access to knowledge, and then about commitment to our betterment and a willingness to practice over the long haul. IMO it has little to do with cost, except as it affects access to knowledge: less cost = more access; more cost = less access.

With open access to knowledge, and hopefully a taste of inner silence early on, people will find out what their commitment is to practice or not. How they got there and what they spent is of lesser consequence. The important thing is for as many people as possible to have the opportunity to find out what it is for them, and then they can decide where to go from there. A high cost for spiritual knowledge (and experience) limits access and choice.

This is not to say that the financial aspects of delivering spiritual knowledge should be ignored. Financial matters have to be addressed, or the work cannot continue for long. Charging too little can be as dysfunctional as charging too much. The AYP model of offering most of the knowledge for free on the web while charging for the books is not a formula for a lucrative business, but it is getting the job of knowledge delivery done, with a reasonable prospect for longevity (I hope).

While fee decisions for TM over the years were presumably well thought out, it is obvious that they were not geared to maximizing access or market demand. Perhaps they were geared to a subjective evaluation of value, or maybe intended to accommodate expanding budgets? In any case, the results speak for themselves. In any business, ignoring the message of the market is a perilous path, whether charging too little or too much. There are many workable solutions in-between. Being flexible enough to adapt to changing conditions is the key.

One thing is for sure; cost is an important determinant of access to spiritual knowledge, and of how many will be coming to it.

Just my two cents. Even two cents can be worth something sometimes.

The guru is in you.

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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2012 :  8:36:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I used to always buy the best of everything and think I was being smart. Then I matured more and also started working for a guy who grew up on a farm. He buys what is barely adequate, and only when he needs it badly. Then he makes it last as long as possible before upgrading. He gets much more value for his money that way.
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lsmithbco

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2012 :  9:34:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. My simple question led to such a volume of answers! Thank you for all your insights and explanations.
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mikkiji

USA
219 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2012 :  11:27:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit mikkiji's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yogani--thank you for the kind words. As for my statement that "we place value on those things we have to work to get--things that are free are afforded less "value", simply because they ARE free," the WE I was speaking of is 'We Generic Westerners', not We AYP'ers! We here, who have found and delved into this self-guided spiritual path are just those who do NOT equate monetary cost with intrinsic value, but have dared to move beyond that Capitalistic concept of, "You get what you pay for." In TM, although Maharishi originally called his organization the "Spiritual Regeneration Movement" in the 1950s, for many decades afterward we did not market the technique as any sort of spiritual path but rather a methodical technology for achieving physical health, intellectual clarity, emotional stability and decreasing stress. That did seem to appeal to Americans and Western Europeans in the millions!

I do agree with Etherfish, however, that it may perhaps be the Internet that has begun to chip away at this long-cherished insistence that cost=value, that you always only get what you pay for and therefore if you have paid nothing, you must be getting nothing! Perhaps this is a glimmer of the ending of Kali Yuga (Dark Ages) and dawning of Sat Yuga (Golden Age)...?!

Finally, Yogani, I so much wish that the contrasts which you so succinctly draw between TM and AYP in the following could be reconciled:
quote:
"As a written teaching, AYP has certain limitations, as you pointed out. It is for people who have an intuitive sense of their journey and are prepared to take responsibility for their spiritual evolution, and who don't require as much detailed assistance as they may get in a hands-on teaching environment (TM certainly excels in that). On the other hand, AYP has certain advantages. In this "information age," it is able to reach many people around the world with easy-to-access tools like deep meditation, spinal breathing pranayama and many other practices, along with detailed instructions on their application, effects and ongoing management. So while the knowledge is spreading out in a somewhat less concentrated form than one might find sitting at the feet of an expert, it is reaching many more people as a ready-to-use resource."
I'd love it if these differences could be transcended and blended so that those without that intuitive sense of spiritual direction could also be brought into the fold, so to speak. And that also those WITH an intuitive sense of spiritual evolution who HAVE misconstrued the mechanics of the technique could be checked and corrected. Because, (sorry Katrine, for hanging this one up on your hook...) as we learned from dear Katrine's long-running error, uncovered finally in this thread: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=9738, and your patient correcting of her "back to back repetition" instruction which she had gotten wrong, it's always possible to just get something slightly incorrect, and to then pass that incorrectness on to others. As joyous as I truly am about all of this knowledge being freely available, I guess my bottom line continues to be an echo of a point Maharishi drove home to us over and over--"Keep the Teaching Pure" because the effectiveness of the technique is wholly dependent on its correctness, its purity. Sigh, I guess I remain on the fence about this, wishing for both maximum effectiveness WITH maximum exposure to the general public! I guess that's why Maharishi trained so many thousands of teachers...! I'm chasing my own tail here, so I'll stop...
Namaste,
Michael

Edited by - mikkiji on Oct 02 2012 11:47:32 AM
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yogani

USA
5102 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2012 :  2:59:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Michael:

I certainly agree that "keeping the teaching pure" is important, at least on some fundamental level. That applies to any kind of knowledge, and especially to spiritual practices, where there are endless ways a teaching can be modified based on subjective evaluations of experience in the moment, rather than sticking with basic technique for a satisfactory a long term outcome.

With AYP being "open source," we have seen it go in many directions. That is the nature of open source -- people take the knowledge and use it as they see fit. But that does not change the baseline teaching, which is recorded in writing and will remain the same, no matter how the applications may vary.

I used to answer a great many questions on baseline AYP versus variations (the link you gave above is a good example). It is an endless analysis and tweaking that many go through, so I finally wrote Lesson 384, which basically says that the baseline is as described in the AYP writings, and if a practitioner decides to modify a baseline practice or add practices from other sources, then it will be the practitioner's research.

From a broader perspective, AYP serves a need for self-directed practitioners who are less likely to sign on with a more structured teaching, especially at a high cost. It also serves a need as a supplemental resource for anyone involved in any traditional form of practice. As you know, we have many people stopping by AYP, coming from just about every tradition on the planet. So it is a way for people to develop some perspective on practices they are using in their own tradition, without having to make a commitment to another tradition.

Given the nature of open source, it is not likely that AYP will be in a position to offer the amount of support necessary to assure that the practices will be applied by everyone exactly as they have been documented. That kind of support will best be left to those who have made a pure application of the practices, and perhaps people like you who have been classically trained. Those who have not made a pure application of the practices will always have the AYP writings to contend with.

The guru is in you.


PS: Could the AYP writings be more thorough? Absolutely, even though they are several thousand pages already. But there is only so much one fellow can do. It is really up to the practitioners to decide how to utilize the knowledge. If AYP does not provide enough clarity on meditation instruction, or any other practice, then for some people it may be best to go to traditional sources. Any way that AYP can help seekers find their next step on the journey will be a plus.

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Bodhi Tree

USA
2800 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2012 :  6:00:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Michael,

The teachings are clear as crystal, and anyone with a remote sense of curiosity can peruse the plethora of online lessons, books, forums (not to mention individualized, direct e-mail responses from Yogani himself--what!?! ).

Any modifications from the baseline practice are done based on individual discretion--not due to some lack in the clarity of instruction or a perceived deficiency in educational support from the AYP community. Support is abundant, and the answers are brimming with precision and comprehensive guidance.

The way you keep a teaching "pure" is to fully reveal its mechanics in the most transparent way--with access for anyone who seeks transcendence and self-realization. The way to muddle, confuse, or water down a teaching is to have its transmission based on person-to-person, transient communication. [I remember Yogani mentioned the metaphor of playing the game "telephone", in which kids pass an original message verbally, ear-to-ear (and in secret--concealed from the group as a whole)]. What results is that the message is inevitably changed due to the pitfalls of verbal, one-on-one transmission.

AYP is the antithesis of that kind of methodology--relying instead on the rock-solid online lessons and books as BASELINE (not on an appointed, paid individual like TM's courses).

It's simple mechanics--not opinion. The writing's on the wall, mate. Chickity-check yourself before you wreck yourself.

AYP apologetics--all day long, baby! Good mental exercise.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2012 :  11:32:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Michael,
It's true that an error can be passed on and later corrected, but I think it's no big deal. If you look at Katrine's posts and anyone who has followed her, it's obvious.

This is not anything like rocket science, where one failed part becomes a life or death situation.

I had done the mantra both the "right" and "wrong" way, and it was still effective for me to find inner silence, and inner guru.
Once a "student" reaches that point and has bhakti, he or she won't get off track for long as our inner guru guides us night and day.

I don't mean to belittle all the personal instructions given in other systems, but in my mind there is primarily one goal, finding the inner guru, and it's pretty much smooth sailing after that.
Notice how Yogani signs off "The guru is in you". There are thousands of words in other systems that tend to obscure this simple truth.
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cosmic

USA
821 Posts

Posted - Oct 03 2012 :  2:27:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Michael, Yogani and all,

Thanks for the interesting discussion. I've always been fascinated by TM and the community they've built in Fairfield, Iowa. I attended a TM presentation before I discovered AYP, but it was too pricey for me.

I feel that there's enough flexibility within the open-source model for different learning approaches. Some people will read the lessons online and run with them. Some will need guidance or even direct teaching, at least in the beginning until they gain confidence and momentum in their sadhana. Most of us will probably seek guidance on the AYP forums, or through more experienced practitioners, or Yogani, at some point.

I think a balanced approach would be to keep the knowledge open and free to all, and for the more experienced practitioners to be available to guide or assist the newer ones on whatever level is appropriate. There's a distinction to be made between being a resource vs. a gatekeeper, to those seeking guidance, and keeping the knowledge open is a good "check and balance" against the latter.

Namaste,
cosmic
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cosmic

USA
821 Posts

Posted - Oct 05 2012 :  11:27:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, I'm not against charging a fee for one's time and effort, simply because this is a "spiritual" thing that's being offerred. We must all make a living, and it's perfectly fair in our culture to be compensated for giving something of value.

I just found the $2000+ I was quoted (in 2002 or so) cost-prohibitive and antithetical to spreading enlightenment to all corners of the world.

But I'm guessing they charge so much to fund big projects like Maharishi Vedic City and MUM. I'm glad they're out there doing what they're doing, and thank God there's AYP for peeps like me

Much Love
cosmic
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colours

Sweden
74 Posts

Posted - Aug 12 2017 :  9:23:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting discussion. There are mostly two reasons why I have not learned TM... one is that it was taught too far away from where I live (to attend to many "classes" when learning TM), and the other was/is that I have not had the money to spend on meditation.

Now it seems you CAN learn TM only 30 minutes away, by car, from where I live... so what is stopping me is the economical part. But if I work hard for a few years, and make enough money, which I plan to do, and you are able to learn TM nearby, the two reasons not to learn TM are gone for me....

If I learn TM some day, I might write about my experience in this forum for people to read... My questions are; would it be easier to keep the routine each day with TM? Is the "personalised" mantra making it easier to trancend into stillness than I AM? That are the questions I would like to know, and I guess the way to find out for sure is to try both...

/colours
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1017 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  02:22:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for reviving this interesting thread.

I find that any error made in getting the technique "right" at the beginning due to misinterpretation/misunderstanding of the instructions or drifting off the right technique at the beginning will eventually correct itself out because these techniques are based on intrinsic tendencies of the body and mind, so years down the line, they refine and correct for effectiveness and efficiency. Am I making sense?



Sey
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colours

Sweden
74 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  11:44:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply


Yes, you are making sense. It is funny, this thing I discovered through practice (and I haven't even been practicing each day) that the meditation works better, feels better, and so on when not being TOO focused or concentrated on the mantra and let it flow easily and effortlessly in your mind... this, what TM is telling people that their meditation is like on their website, not being about concetration, being very natural etc... Maybe it is something about this, which the TM-teacher is guiding the student in? "How to" repeat the mantra, how to relate to the mantra and the meditation procedure? I am wondering... it is anyways these things I would like to "learn" when being on a meditation course.

But yes Sey, I believe it is as you speak in the matter... Maybe it is not so much about doing it right, as doing it and being relaxed and easy about it? There is so much blocking in doing it right, doing it wrong, especially in meditation I believe.
In my opinion, this is what Yogani's book on meditation gave me mostly, removing these things which are blocking the actual easy process of mantra meditation... like he "undressed" my meditation and my ideas about meditation and made it so much more natural and effortlessly. I was truly amazed by that book and it's result on me after reading it...

Anyways, almost feels like I have written a book in this post haha hope I did not get too far away from the thread topic.

/colours



Edited by - colours on Aug 14 2017 12:07:50 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3237 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  7:07:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Colours,

On the AYP retreats, there are question and answer sessions during the evening Satsangs, so if anyone is unsure about any of the techniques (not just meditation), they can ask. There are quite a few retreats happening in the U.K. this year and next year and I will also be leading a one week retreat in Spain next May.

Details here.

There are also plenty of opportunities for people to ask questions on practice during the AYP Teacher Training Courses. The courses last for a month, so there is a lot of time to go in depth with practices.

Details on upcoming TTC's are here.


Christi
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colours

Sweden
74 Posts

Posted - Aug 16 2017 :  10:17:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

I have heard about the retreats and also the teacher training. I live in Sweden so there is not very easy for me to join a retreat at the moment, even if I would like to. If it were closer it would be different. That is why I was happy that TM now teaches their meditation right where I live, if I understand it correctly.

I have not practiced enough to be able to take the teacher training course. I would need more experience... I am still struggling to maybe meditate regularly each day some day... So I am far from becoming a yoga teacher But thanks anyways for the tip.

It is good, anyways to have the AYP-forum, and Yogani if you are having any trouble with practice... :)

/colours
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