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AYPforum
351 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 07 2005 : 5:41:02 PM
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486 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:02pm
Subject: Is there something called FATE? nearoanoke
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I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering spiritual
practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
everything is in our hands.
Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our hands.
Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive practice
under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly and
there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is written
down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
already written.
Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth of
understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some light
on this?
Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this struggle?
Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these practices
anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
492 From: "quickstudy05" <quickstudy05@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:46am
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? quickstudy05
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AYP lesson 103, "destiny and free will," sheds some light on this:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/103
"Destiny is in the stars. The rest is up to us."
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering spiritual
> practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> everything is in our hands.
>
> Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our hands.
> Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive practice
> under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly and
> there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is written
> down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> already written.
>
> Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth of
> understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some
light
> on this?
>
> Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this struggle?
> Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these practices
> anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
495 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:22am
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? obsidian9999
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Hi Near,
I've thought about this one and there are paradoxes in it.
This particular issue tends to get complicated by problems of
language and differences in meaning, which appear subtle but are in
fact gross. I am not going to respond about FATE per se, but on the
related issue of free will.
Here is what I see:
There are three statements:
TRUE-1: Absolutely everything is being done by the Source. In
consequence of that, we have NO free will whatsoever.
TRUE-2: Our will is 'free' in the sense of independent of certain
external conditions, and with it there is much we can achieve.
FALSE-1: We cannot achieve anything because everything is outside
our control.
TRUE-1 and TRUE-2 are both true but wrongly considered
contradictory; FALSE-1 is false.
TRUE-1 is often distorted by people into FALSE-1. Most commonly,
if you say TRUE-1, people think you are saying FALSE-1, and have to
disagree with you.
Knowledge of TRUE-2 keeps us doing things that make sense.
Knowledge of TRUE-1 is surrender to spiritual reality, which is all-
pervading, INSIDE as well as outside you. Belief in FALSE-1 is
surrender to circumstances which are outside you.
Sometimes in meditation, or in a moment of spiritual insight, TRUE-
1 can be perceived very powerfully.
I would say the 'West' lost TRUE-1 almost entirely but very
powerfully grasped TRUE2. The 'East' straddled TRUE-1 and FALSE-1
and had a weaker foundation in TRUE-2. ( Safe Harbour Disclaimer
under the Politically Correct Act 1990: This is presented as a
pattern, not meant to be a generalization about all western and all
eastern cultures.)
The trick is keeping TRUE-1 and TRUE-2 at the same time, without
letting either of them go and in particular, without letting TRUE-1
distort into FALSE-1.
Namaste,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering spiritual
> practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> everything is in our hands.
>
> Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our hands.
> Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive practice
> under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly and
> there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is written
> down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> already written.
>
> Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth of
> understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some
light
> on this?
>
> Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this struggle?
> Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these practices
> anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
500 From: "Paula Youmans" <paula@webboise.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 0:37pm
Subject: RE: Re: Is there something called FATE? paula_youmans
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Hi Near -
This question has driven me insane before. I wonder if you are
asking because of those premonition moments where you glimpse what ends up
happening..
I've somewhat come to the conclusion that this happens because time is
relative and kind of arbitrary. I think it's similar to a sonic boom or the
Doppler Effect where what your senses perceive is out of synch with "real
time" (whatever that is) and what you are sensing has already happened.
So even though it sounds like a paradox, I think you both have free will and
you have already decided and that's why it seems "already written."
This may sound insane, but I tried to alter what I thought I saw once, and I
kid you not it was almost as if I went out of my way to make it happen
exactly how I saw it.even though my intent was to change it.
At first I chalked it up to divine intelligence (and an awesome sense of
humor I'll add), but the more I think about it the more I think it's the
time issue.
Hope this offered anything.
And I hope it doesn't sound totally insane LOL
~Paula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
502 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:06pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? obsidian9999
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> So even though it sounds like a paradox, I think you both have free
> will and
> you have already decided and that's why it seems "already written."
Hello Paula,
I think you are exactly right there.
When we encounter paradoxes, there are always deep assumptions that
we are making that are not quite right.
You have 'explained' how 'free will' is consistent with 'already
written'. I wrote about how free will is consistent with the fact
that everything is done by a single source. The two paradoxes are
very closely related.
And now, we'd better shut up before the Philosopho-phobes kick our
butts (or should that be Phobosophers)? :) I'm getting a
premonition of someone telling me to 'cut through all that'.
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" <paula@w...> wrote:
>
> Hi Near -
>
>
>
> This question has driven me insane before. I wonder if
you are
> asking because of those premonition moments where you glimpse what
ends up
> happening..
>
>
>
> I've somewhat come to the conclusion that this happens because time
is
> relative and kind of arbitrary. I think it's similar to a sonic
boom or the
> Doppler Effect where what your senses perceive is out of synch
with "real
> time" (whatever that is) and what you are sensing has already
happened.
>
> So even though it sounds like a paradox, I think you both have free
will and
> you have already decided and that's why it seems "already written."
>
>
>
> This may sound insane, but I tried to alter what I thought I saw
once, and I
> kid you not it was almost as if I went out of my way to make it
happen
> exactly how I saw it.even though my intent was to change it.
>
> At first I chalked it up to divine intelligence (and an awesome
sense of
> humor I'll add), but the more I think about it the more I think
it's the
> time issue.
>
>
>
> Hope this offered anything.
>
> And I hope it doesn't sound totally insane LOL
>
> ~Paula
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
506 From: "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? nearoanoke
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Good points there paula and david.
As yogani tells enlightenment is a state beyond time and beyond
space. Once we are enlightened we realize that we are everywhere, we
are everything. Spacelessness tells that everything is us including
from fellow human beings to every atom in the universe. Timelessness
is kind of difficult to comprehend but that might mean that we were,
we are and we will be(as paula as wonderfully put).
Thinking thru these limited boundaries of space and time, fate might
appear something in the future, the future that is an illusion.
Hence fate/destiny being written down might appear illogical. As
always our daily twice meditation is the solution for all these
questions.
Love,
Near
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" <paula@w...> wrote:
>
> Hi Near -
>
>
>
> This question has driven me insane before. I wonder if
you are
> asking because of those premonition moments where you glimpse what
ends up
> happening..
>
>
>
> I've somewhat come to the conclusion that this happens because
time is
> relative and kind of arbitrary. I think it's similar to a sonic
boom or the
> Doppler Effect where what your senses perceive is out of synch
with "real
> time" (whatever that is) and what you are sensing has already
happened.
>
> So even though it sounds like a paradox, I think you both have
free will and
> you have already decided and that's why it seems "already written."
>
>
>
> This may sound insane, but I tried to alter what I thought I saw
once, and I
> kid you not it was almost as if I went out of my way to make it
happen
> exactly how I saw it.even though my intent was to change it.
>
> At first I chalked it up to divine intelligence (and an awesome
sense of
> humor I'll add), but the more I think about it the more I think
it's the
> time issue.
>
>
>
> Hope this offered anything.
>
> And I hope it doesn't sound totally insane LOL
>
> ~Paula
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
508 From: "Kathy" <nagoyasea@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? nagoyasea
Offline
Send Email
These are only my own rambling thoughts. It seems that without free
will, we would not be able to stumble and fall or learn and grow
spiritually.
In my life, it appears as though karma is alive and well. Actions I
have taken, thoughts I have had, come back to me even in this life
and I have experienced what I have done to others, good or bad.
Thoughts manifest themselves in feelings and translate into action
and affect us and others in our lives. So the meditations and
practices I do, calming the mind and thoughts, bring me peace, in my
life and my interactions with others.
It seems likely that we may choose the framework of the lives we
live here on earth, prior to taking another incarnation. That
framework may provide the backdrop for specific life learning events
we need to live through. But because we have free will and others
have free will, it doesn't seem like our lives are planned out and
controlled by fate. More like we're moving through chaos, to which
we try to bring a semblance of order
Peace,
Kathy
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering spiritual
> practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> everything is in our hands.
>
> Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our
hands.
> Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive practice
> under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly and
> there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is written
> down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> already written.
>
> Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth of
> understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some
light
> on this?
>
> Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this struggle?
> Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these
practices
> anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
512 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? azaz932001
Offline
Send Email
I think youve cracked it Kathy. It is chaos out there!!! I think
every decision we make creates another reality. its like a maze full
of twists and turns. I think its a case of if irealy feels right Do
it.
Blessings R.C.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <nagoyasea@y...> wrote:
>
>
> These are only my own rambling thoughts. It seems that without free
> will, we would not be able to stumble and fall or learn and grow
> spiritually.
>
> In my life, it appears as though karma is alive and well. Actions I
> have taken, thoughts I have had, come back to me even in this life
> and I have experienced what I have done to others, good or bad.
> Thoughts manifest themselves in feelings and translate into action
> and affect us and others in our lives. So the meditations and
> practices I do, calming the mind and thoughts, bring me peace, in
my
> life and my interactions with others.
>
> It seems likely that we may choose the framework of the lives we
> live here on earth, prior to taking another incarnation. That
> framework may provide the backdrop for specific life learning
events
> we need to live through. But because we have free will and others
> have free will, it doesn't seem like our lives are planned out and
> controlled by fate. More like we're moving through chaos, to which
> we try to bring a semblance of order
>
> Peace,
>
> Kathy
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering
spiritual
> > practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> > everything is in our hands.
> >
> > Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our
> hands.
> > Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive practice
> > under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly and
> > there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is written
> > down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> > already written.
> >
> > Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth of
> > understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some
> light
> > on this?
> >
> > Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this
struggle?
> > Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these
> practices
> > anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
513 From: "Kathy" <nagoyasea@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:27pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? nagoyasea
Offline
Send Email
RC,
you might enjoy a film that was just recently in independent
theatres, called "What the !@#$%!!! Bleep Do We Know?"-- It may be
coming out on video soon. One of the ideas it explored was the idea
that we are participating in many realities simultaneously or at
least that every possible reality was created and is occurring. It
was definitely an interesting film....
In light and love,
Kathy
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001"
<richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
>
>
> I think youve cracked it Kathy. It is chaos out there!!! I think
> every decision we make creates another reality. its like a maze
full
> of twists and turns. I think its a case of if irealy feels right
Do
> it.
>
> Blessings R.C.
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <nagoyasea@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > These are only my own rambling thoughts. It seems that without
free
> > will, we would not be able to stumble and fall or learn and grow
> > spiritually.
> >
> > In my life, it appears as though karma is alive and well.
Actions I
> > have taken, thoughts I have had, come back to me even in this
life
> > and I have experienced what I have done to others, good or bad.
> > Thoughts manifest themselves in feelings and translate into
action
> > and affect us and others in our lives. So the meditations and
> > practices I do, calming the mind and thoughts, bring me peace,
in
> my
> > life and my interactions with others.
> >
> > It seems likely that we may choose the framework of the lives we
> > live here on earth, prior to taking another incarnation. That
> > framework may provide the backdrop for specific life learning
> events
> > we need to live through. But because we have free will and
others
> > have free will, it doesn't seem like our lives are planned out
and
> > controlled by fate. More like we're moving through chaos, to
which
> > we try to bring a semblance of order
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering
> spiritual
> > > practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> > > everything is in our hands.
> > >
> > > Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our
> > hands.
> > > Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive
practice
> > > under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly
and
> > > there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is
written
> > > down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> > > already written.
> > >
> > > Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth
of
> > > understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed some
> > light
> > > on this?
> > >
> > > Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this
> struggle?
> > > Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these
> > practices
> > > anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
521 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:17pm
Subject: Re: Is there something called FATE? azaz932001
Offline
Send Email
Cheers Kathy I love things like that I will look out for it in thr UK
Blessings R.C.
>
>
> RC,
>
> you might enjoy a film that was just recently in independent
> theatres, called "What the !@#$%!!! Bleep Do We Know?"-- It may be
> coming out on video soon. One of the ideas it explored was the idea
> that we are participating in many realities simultaneously or at
> least that every possible reality was created and is occurring. It
> was definitely an interesting film....
>
> In light and love,
>
> Kathy
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001"
> <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think youve cracked it Kathy. It is chaos out there!!! I think
> > every decision we make creates another reality. its like a maze
> full
> > of twists and turns. I think its a case of if irealy feels right
> Do
> > it.
> >
> > Blessings R.C.
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <nagoyasea@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > These are only my own rambling thoughts. It seems that without
> free
> > > will, we would not be able to stumble and fall or learn and
grow
> > > spiritually.
> > >
> > > In my life, it appears as though karma is alive and well.
> Actions I
> > > have taken, thoughts I have had, come back to me even in this
> life
> > > and I have experienced what I have done to others, good or bad.
> > > Thoughts manifest themselves in feelings and translate into
> action
> > > and affect us and others in our lives. So the meditations and
> > > practices I do, calming the mind and thoughts, bring me peace,
> in
> > my
> > > life and my interactions with others.
> > >
> > > It seems likely that we may choose the framework of the lives
we
> > > live here on earth, prior to taking another incarnation. That
> > > framework may provide the backdrop for specific life learning
> > events
> > > we need to live through. But because we have free will and
> others
> > > have free will, it doesn't seem like our lives are planned out
> and
> > > controlled by fate. More like we're moving through chaos, to
> which
> > > we try to bring a semblance of order
> > >
> > > Peace,
> > >
> > > Kathy
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "nearoanoke" <nearoanoke@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I never beleived in anything called FATE before entering
> > spiritual
> > > > practices. I used to think our free-will is all that is and
> > > > everything is in our hands.
> > > >
> > > > Even now I beleieve we reap what we sow and it is all in our
> > > hands.
> > > > Recently I met a practitioner (who has real extenstive
> practice
> > > > under belt) who told me that everything is laid out clearly
> and
> > > > there is little that is in our hands. Our destiny/fate is
> written
> > > > down and our free will can only make minor changes to what is
> > > > already written.
> > > >
> > > > Probably that statement of his requires more spiritual depth
> of
> > > > understanding than what I have. Could someone please shed
some
> > > light
> > > > on this?
> > > >
> > > > Is everything written down? Then what is the use of this
> > struggle?
> > > > Isnt it true that it is in my hands that i can stop these
> > > practices
> > > > anytime that i want. How come that wont make any difference?
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Is there something called FATE?
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