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Asanas - Postures and Physical Culture

siddhasana vs seiza

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			$Prayer [/\]$

[quote][i]Originally posted by momo[/i]
[br]dear friends,

being in my third week of practicing DM and oday i have read about and added pranayama - so far so good!

now i have a question regarding the sitting position.i like to sit without back support and have tried the siddhasana and a variation of what i believe is called a seiza sitting position and i find the later to be much better for a couple of reasons.

i should say that in both i need/use a small cushion on top of a nicely shaped stone to raise my hip, angle it right, straighten/relax my spine and relief/remove tension in my knees and right shoulder.

when i sit in seiza, i have my knees wide apart and sit between my foots on the cushion/stone. compared to siddhasana, this completely opens up my lower stomach area and i can just settle in this relaxed/open position.

also, it is symmetric and hence more stable. furthermore, the hip falls nicer into the right position - a bit forward, just right for the spine to relax in a straight position.and finally, i feel this is due to the symmetry - i don't get shoulder pains in this position, whereas in siddhasana my right shoulder will start to ache after a while.

so - seiza all the way for me - any thoughts/comments/feelings/reasons why not to prefer the in my observations more symmetrical/stable/open/relaxing seiza sitting position?

thank you!
[/quote]

T O P I C R E V I E W
momo	Posted - Apr 15 2012 : 08:06:16 AM dear friends, being in my third week of practicing DM and oday i have read about and added pranayama - so far so good! now i have a question regarding the sitting position.i like to sit without back support and have tried the siddhasana and a variation of what i believe is called a seiza sitting position and i find the later to be much better for a couple of reasons. i should say that in both i need/use a small cushion on top of a nicely shaped stone to raise my hip, angle it right, straighten/relax my spine and relief/remove tension in my knees and right shoulder. when i sit in seiza, i have my knees wide apart and sit between my foots on the cushion/stone. compared to siddhasana, this completely opens up my lower stomach area and i can just settle in this relaxed/open position. also, it is symmetric and hence more stable. furthermore, the hip falls nicer into the right position - a bit forward, just right for the spine to relax in a straight position.and finally, i feel this is due to the symmetry - i don't get shoulder pains in this position, whereas in siddhasana my right shoulder will start to ache after a while. so - seiza all the way for me - any thoughts/comments/feelings/reasons why not to prefer the in my observations more symmetrical/stable/open/relaxing seiza sitting position? thank you!
14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
mimirom	Posted - May 13 2012 : 07:23:39 AM Dear momo, watch out. The practices you are learning now are powerful. Seriously. No kidding. Take your time, ok? Take on ONE technique and observe very carefully and patiently what's happening. I personally would say you should be slowly beginning to form your first impressions from deep meditation at this point. Maybe, but only maybe, if you are that particular type of person for whom it is beneficial to start early on with spinal breathing pranayama, you could be gently adding that. You have plenty of time, so enjoy every moment and don't hurry. Siddhasana is very advanced and it will best serve students, who are likewise advanced. This is not meant to scare you - you are safe with ayp. What is the point here is that the rule "less is sometimes more" is very true for advanced yoga. I'd really call it the golden rule. Slow and steady wins the game, right? All the best and have great fun with your practice
momo	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 09:11:42 AM thank you holy, i am at the end of my third week and i have followed the instructions up to lesson 75. so far it seems that my body is falling into it really nicely - strongly but naturally. only good comes out of it until now - at the moment i am still stabilising this stage, and it feels like that is happening. but i will back off if things should get out of hand - thanks again!
Holy	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 3:57:48 PM To clear up the last postings, siddhasana and maha mudra are two different asanas, the second one being quite different and not really a sitting posture but an active technique with the full scope of mudras, bandhas and even kumbhaka. @momo siddhasana is really powerful and maybe way too much if you just started with DM. A more smooth and stable order would be DM --> SBP --> mula bandha/aswini mudra --> sambhavi mudra --> siddhasana. In the end its you bhakti and wish, but don't worry if it gets too intense very soon. You can self pace and reduce additions for a while until you are stable again.
axelschlotzhauer	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 08:23:53 AM Sounds really good being already in the process of an energy filled belly combined with a straight sitting on the mineral force of a stone. All that worked by the mantra. As I found no really good discussion on Mahamudra I gave you further hints for avoiding certain traps favoring breathless states by different schools and guru not interested in giving you more advanced details. I made a fault. Bladder meridian is at the little toe. Spleen meridian with superb thinking qualities is outside the big toe. It seems that by the mantra like tibetan mantras I know you are already in. above and below the navel to work Mahamudra there as Lama Yeshe in a work of ths title and others. I avoid here the names and colors they use for not disturbing the equivalents used here. Better in the beginning. You have to choose and not me. Axel
momo	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 04:35:09 AM thanks alex, so much info i can grasp only with my head, but the important point i get - there is clear energetic differences between the poses in terms of energy flow, what is excited, massaged. i have much to learn.i am now on my 3rd day with siddhasana as it should be. i'm quite flexible but am still working it, or shall i say - it is working me. it is very physical and grounding, my belly fills up with energy while my muscles are grounding the whole upper body. it is amazing really. so fast, so strong. i could say it is quite distracting from the mantra, but then at moments it clicks, and while i pay full and clear attention to the mantra the strong/energetic posture follows the mantra and for moments there is just the mantra in this strong energised background. i feel it will settle into that eventually, - let's see, if it is like it feels, i'll be good - it already is!
axelschlotzhauer	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 4:22:56 PM Reading the complete costless download of Ennio Firmis of Kriya to which also AYP belongs I came to read page 100 with several techniques done with this most important asana. The search function grabs still more important techniques. I take two of them: 1) Connecting thie pressure on Muladhara getting aware this waywith the third eye in the head by a deep breath. What is meant by cerebrospinal tube seems to be page 20 the empty spine of Yoganandas master. Ennio led a whole controversy on this point and breathless approaches. As a tantric method between two energy exchanging persons in normal meetings this can be already near to kundalini when the female part puts her muladhara energy on your forehead entering at the same time from below you spine with some seducing sights and movements. A step towards a better consciousness as you get highly concetrated if you can cope with it. The other side is putting a little bit of your sexual energy into the female midbrain getting explosions grasping her whole body. 2)Some schools think to balance ida and pingala by grasping the big toes covering perhaps the soles with the hands or putting nails into the big toes. Well outside the toe you get the first point of the bladder meridian mounting the spine till the third eye. Inside the toe you get the stomach meridian for the left and right side channels of the middle channel through. You seiza cannot work that though this is also a famous asana of lion pose and roar I think with similarily useful streams. I had to check i again. Axel
AYPforum	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 12:14:07 PM Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
axelschlotzhauer	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 07:44:14 AM Slowly, slowly. Mahamudra is a very broad topic and secret. As kundalini from the navel and inner fire rather freely described by Lama Yeshe. The stimulation of the perineum is surely a good hypothesis as like the crown as male or yang energies this by Hui Yin the main place for female or yin energies of all sorts and as a snake shakti is residing there kicking you easily your brains when turning to fire as tummo in tibetan means wild women. The mudra as a magical gesture needs an initiation and sets presumably a lock against leaking out male energies and semen to the ground or into a woman what is normally the case when your brains are kicked by a woman meeting you. By Mahamudra these energies get sealed for going upwards instead uselessly downwards is my hypothesis.This surely not the only means as I could cope with this female forces by Taoism for having also multiple orgasm. Don`t forget the heels touching the perineum. This closes obviously a circuit not allowing losing your energies into the ground but keeking them and enforcing the yin energies for going upwards also. The uterus is not leaking so much protecting babies this way. But it can exhaust also. Axel
momo	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 07:18:38 AM hi holy, when i first wrote the post, i used both words siddhasana/seiza without knowing to much about them. i did not know about the heel on the perineum - i'm sorry! i should clarify, when i said seiza, i meant something else really - i do not sit on my heels like on the picture. i put me feet further out so that i actually would sit on my sitting bones. however, that stretches my knees to much and so i took a nice fist size oval/sphere shaped stone and put on that a cushion. when sitting my sitting bones find good support on the stone, well enough cushioned by the cushion. and also, if i move back a bit i can have it press exactly on the perineum. having said all that, now that i read up on siddhasana and start to understand, i will try to master it - as they say :) also, i work in and office and the chairs here are perfect for sitting in siddhasana with back support - all day - so, i'll get a fair bit of practice :) still, i think that my version of what i called seiza, is symmetrical and easy on the knees and everything else i said before. the only thing is - you need some gadget - in my case the stone/cushion - to stimulate the perineum. all good :)
Holy	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 6:56:06 PM Dear momo, can you explain how you hit your perineum in this sitting position? http://www.aikido-student.com/seiza.php I tried different variations and the only one where the perineum is hit very strongly is with crossed legs and this hurts more than padmasana for this body =P The other parts are nr.1 with a straight spine and easy breathing, but also much demanding in general. Longterm sitting seems to be problematic, even with some good kundalini acivity the pain starts coming too fast here. (not that siddhaasana on the floor without back support is much better ;) With back support on the bed or a soft cussion, siddhaasana works for long enough times here. @karl siddhaasana is more than a recommendation, but seeing so, DM and SBP are also life-recommendations from yogani =)
AumNaturel	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 2:42:14 PM There's also a great alternative that resembles siddhasana mentioned in lesson 75. I've come to rely on it since it allows the hip and knee stretching along with a slightly forward center of gravity that I just can't do with a heel locking my spine from rolling forward from the base. I also enjoy a hard surface with only a folded towel as it tends to feel more grounding in some way, while a soft surface again shifts my center backwards sinking in while the legs and knees remain elevated. I refold my legs after a while (burmese posture) and that keeps the ankles comfortable and refreshes most numbness. Of course, getting more comfortable into it took many years without any stretching on the side, and has been rewarding, but isn't necessary and can be a distraction to DM.
momo	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 08:21:12 AM yes, you are absolutely right, i actually did not know that about siddhasana, thinking that it just meant 'cross legged sitting', i had not read that far into the lessons. i did read up on it now - thank you!
SeySorciere	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 02:24:04 AM Karl is right - it is only a recommendation but a recommendation with an advantage - in Siddhasana, the heel of your foot is conveniently placed at your perineum providing a gentle massage /slight pressure down there to help stimulate the latent energy. Read up on the Tantra lessons when you have the time. Enjoy your practices Sey
karl	Posted - Apr 15 2012 : 08:37:16 AM AYP doesn't really get too concerned with positioning for DM. Whatever is the most comfortable is the way forward, the recommendations of the heel at the root are exactly that - recommendations. As long as you are comfortable it will be fine. Welcome to the forum by he way