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Satsang Cafe - General Questions on AYP

Contemplations on the physicality of Kundalini..

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			$Prayer [/\]$

[quote][i]Originally posted by _shakti_[/i]
[br]This may be a very odd question.. but I am apparently full of them, and this one won't leave my mind..

If we are truly not our body (an assertion I wholly agree with btw, perhaps too much so?), then why must the body be SO involved in the process of enlightenment?

I am not suggesting that we should abuse our body as we seek enlightenment, I can see the inherent incompatibility there. We have incarnated on Earth in this physical vehicle for a reason after all. But what I don't understand is why the process is SO physical if we will ultimately be leaving this body behind.. ?

Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly, but it is tough at times to see past the many things that occur physically with an 'awakened kundalini'. And it makes me wonder.. what is the purpose of it? In a grander sense..

Are the physical symptoms merely the gross aspects of what is going on as the energetic system is purified? And if you accept reincarnation, what happens in your next life.. must you go through the whole process again?

I guess I am caught up in the why of it all, trying in vain to understand and feeling mostly a helpless victim to the process. Forgive my odd contemplations, but I have no where else to share them, that is for sure!

[/quote]

T O P I C R E V I E W
_shakti_	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 6:42:27 PM This may be a very odd question.. but I am apparently full of them, and this one won't leave my mind.. If we are truly not our body (an assertion I wholly agree with btw, perhaps too much so?), then why must the body be SO involved in the process of enlightenment? I am not suggesting that we should abuse our body as we seek enlightenment, I can see the inherent incompatibility there. We have incarnated on Earth in this physical vehicle for a reason after all. But what I don't understand is why the process is SO physical if we will ultimately be leaving this body behind.. ? Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly, but it is tough at times to see past the many things that occur physically with an 'awakened kundalini'. And it makes me wonder.. what is the purpose of it? In a grander sense.. Are the physical symptoms merely the gross aspects of what is going on as the energetic system is purified? And if you accept reincarnation, what happens in your next life.. must you go through the whole process again? I guess I am caught up in the why of it all, trying in vain to understand and feeling mostly a helpless victim to the process. Forgive my odd contemplations, but I have no where else to share them, that is for sure!
10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
AumNaturel	Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 3:06:10 PM quote: Originally posted by _shakti_ there really is no 'proof' of this (in regard to carrying benefits forward to a future incarnation) Then there is the idea of ripeness, which is hard to deny by the way it manifests at least to those who are more well-known. Your other questions don't carry answers on the same terms, and enter into self-inquiry.
_shakti_	Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 2:11:28 PM quote: While I can't answer your question, I can offer well wishes from yet another Albertan. Maybe it's something in the water? Thanks Beckon! Whereabouts in Alberta are you from? I was thinking of moving because I've been feeling pretty isolated from like minded others here, so it's good to know there are others nearby :) quote: I think you may well have... Thank you for understanding what I was getting at, I appreciate that more than you know! quote: The whole problem is one of impurity, so the whole solution is one of purification. Impurities exist essentially on 3 levels- the physical, the energetic and the mental. In fact, most of our yoga practices are designed to purify on the mental and energetic levels. We don't do much on a physical level compared to those other two. I wasn't doing much in that regard either, until I had some very intense experiences in India. And now I don't seem to have much choice in the matter at all. quote: So don't think that you are doing all this work for nothing. You won't lose any of it. Everything you do in yoga will benefit you forever. It's kind of a win- win situation. While there really is no 'proof' of this (in regard to carrying benefits forward to a future incarnation), it doesn't make sense any other way. Again, I really appreciate your feedback Christi :) quote: I think the illusion of "so much" having to be done physically may be related to identifying with the physical body. The physical experiences that I have had are far from illusions, lol.. only insofar as this physical body is an illusion. And if that is the case, why did I choose to inhabit it? To obtain some illusory purification.. ? In my particular case, I think the feelings that prompted me to write this thread were caused because I wasn't identified with my body. Prior to my experiences in India, my body was not really involved in my spirituality. Oh sure, I did yoga and felt all the benefits, but there was still a distinct separation that I was not even conscious of until I returned home. I guess to simplify what I am (probably poorly) attempting to explain, is that I was in control of my body.. but now I am not. It too has surrendered to the process. But I didn't get there without a struggle, hence the contemplations I suppose. The mind and it's silly attempts at control.. quote: I have gone through alternate periods of physical things seeming to be so much effort, and the same thing later seeming like no effort at all. I suppose that as you become more and more purified, such physical experiences become greatly lessened. But I'm not sure where the 'effort' would come in?
Christi	Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 04:17:11 AM Hi Ether, Yes, It wouldn't surprise me if the Ancient Egyptians had a similar understanding of the universe to the ancient Yogis. After all, there is only one thing going on.
Etherfish	Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 07:34:17 AM Very interesting Christi. I think the illusion of "so much" having to be done physically may be related to identifying with the physical body. I have gone through alternate periods of physical things seeming to be so much effort, and the same thing later seeming like no effort at all. The ancient egyptians lived in the last "Golden Age" or yuga, when the spiritual energy for everyone was higher. This made it easier to access higher states of consciousness, and there is a possibility that the pyramids were a kind of spiritual energy generator designed to help people as the energy declined at the end of the Golden age. The different spiritual bodies may have been common knowledge back then. They didn't have a word for "death". It was called "westing", like what the sun does at the end of a day. Their concept was that time is cyclical, not linear, and obviously if you do what the sun does at the end of the day, it begins a new cycle the following day.
Christi	Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 03:01:18 AM quote: Originally posted by _shakti_ Like I said in the initial post, I get that it is all connected. I am just having trouble understanding why the body has to go through... so much.. in the process. I'd rather not get into specifics on the 'so much', because it's pretty difficult to understand, let alone put into words. But it has made me contemplative about WHY we need such an intense purification process to get 'there'.. ? I understand that everyone is different, and will experience different things.. but this does seem to be a universal process at its core. Maybe that is the purpose of being in this body in the first place, to render incarnation as such essentially unnecessary? Hmmm.. perhaps I have begun to answer my own question. Hi Shakti, I think you may well have... The whole problem is one of impurity, so the whole solution is one of purification. Impurities exist essentially on 3 levels- the physical, the energetic and the mental. In fact, most of our yoga practices are designed to purify on the mental and energetic levels. We don't do much on a physical level compared to those other two. In yoga the soul has a number of bodies. The outermost is the physical body which is abandoned at death. In fact that is all the word death actually means. The next body going inwards is the subtle body. This includes both the mental sheath and the energetic sheath, neither of which are abandoned at death. Most of the purification we are doing is about purifying these two sheaths (koshas). There is another body beyond the subtle body called the causal body. Even this is not the true seat of the soul, but just another vehicle. So don't think that you are doing all this work for nothing. You won't lose any of it. Everything you do in yoga will benefit you forever. It's kind of a win- win situation. Enjoy! Christi
beckon	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 11:35:35 PM While I can't answer your question, I can offer well wishes from yet another Albertan. Maybe it's something in the water?
_shakti_	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 9:29:50 PM Like I said in the initial post, I get that it is all connected. I am just having trouble understanding why the body has to go through... so much.. in the process. I'd rather not get into specifics on the 'so much', because it's pretty difficult to understand, let alone put into words. But it has made me contemplative about WHY we need such an intense purification process to get 'there'.. ? I understand that everyone is different, and will experience different things.. but this does seem to be a universal process at its core. Maybe that is the purpose of being in this body in the first place, to render incarnation as such essentially unnecessary? Hmmm.. perhaps I have begun to answer my own question.
BellaMente	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 8:50:27 PM I agree with Carson . In a holographic universe, each part contains the Whole. The micro mirrors the macro. Our body mirrors the Spirit, it is a lower reflection of the Absolute. Just like in Vedanta, the jiva (soul) is a lower reflection of the Atman (Spirit) which in turn is Brahman (God-Consciousness, or whatever you may wish to call it). So the Spirit is connected with and works through our body/bodies. Damaging one may damage the other (spiritual issues can lead to physical disease and illness and physical issues may lead to corruption and corroding of Spirit.) For example: 7 chakras correspond to the 7 endocrine glands. The sushumna corresponds with the central canal of the spinal cord, the ida and pingala with the autonomic nervous system, and etc, etc, etc.
_shakti_	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 6:59:05 PM I'd like to clarify that I'm not really a victim to this process, since I acknowledge that on a certain level.. I chose it. I just wasn't expecting it in the way that it came. Nor all the after-effects necessarily. Probably the worst part is having NO ONE to talk to about any of it, that really adds to the 'feeling crazy' aspect. Thanks so much for the welcome Carson, and from an Albertan! It couldn't get any better than that :)
CarsonZi	Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 6:51:11 PM Hi Shakti and welcome to the AYP forums To me, the body is the vehicle, the medium for self realization. In an ultimate sense we may not be the body, but without it there is no opportunity for self realization. When we are embodied we are given the opportunity to see the dream from within the dream. There is nothing (I can think of) that is more precious than that. Happy to welcome a fellow Albertan to the forums. Love! Carson