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Satsang Cafe - General Questions on AYP

Can't A Master just Transmit Enlightenment?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
beetsmyth	Posted - May 28 2012 : 4:12:58 PM If One becomes a Spiritual Master, all Channels open, Complete utter Ego Death, Oneness, Supreme Realization and so forth..... Isn't someone like that capable of merely transmitting such realization/Oneness over to someone in their midst? Just from my glimpses and back and forth between Localized and Nonlocal Awareness, it seems as if this should be possible. There used to be a non-tradional Nondual teacher named Alfred Pulyan who said he had a 70% success rate with transmission and that was even through writing people letters back in the 60-70's!!! Also in Zen there is a tradition of a master being able to transmit an Awakening. What is your guys take on this?
20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
FutureHumanDestiny	Posted - Oct 13 2012 : 4:32:29 PM the transmissions depends on 2 things: the strength and quality of the transmission and the capacity of the person receiving it. from what i have seen, people are rarely willing to do what is required: to do nothing. the entrapments of videos, television, radio and books (while appealing, and occasionally informative) require both tremendous energy and time, yet, when one meets their guru, they often retreat to the computer, the television, the phone, the internet, books, etc. to validate what they heard the guru say. Enlightenment relies on nothing in order to occur. A body full of stress can not be filled with the spirit, nor can a busy man become enlightened. In much the same way that a glass full of beer can not be filled with milk, a woman (or man) must be emptied of desire and action in order to receive divine gifts. Can a master transmit enlightenment? If they are legit, they can share their energy, personality, charisma, exuberance and thoughtless-ness. The sharing of their mindlessness, or no-mind state, is usually associated with Shiva. (the highest state they can share, typically) The nascent state is usually associated with Babiji. Their energy is usually associated with Shakti. Their samadhi mind state is shared through darshan, or open-eyed meditation with disciples 1 on 1 only. Non-enlightened aspirants sometimes can do this via lesser siddhis. just a random fact. Their techniques are shared with groups as part of the vetting process: those who practice, progress to darshan. Their philosophy is shared openly with all who ask. this is the lowest state of an aspirant, those who study only. Then there are those who they see day to day in town: who know nothing of philosophy, spirit or meditation and see the guru as too humble, too calm, too quiet, too boring, etc. to them, the guru offers wisdom though they rarely take it. so you see now how aspirants reject the transmission even though they demand it. this is (a portion of) the paradox of suffering. hope that helps, in the long run. -dale
harsharan000	Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 6:25:32 PM Enlightening, is just like breathing oxygen, which is not in any particular direction, we are surrounded and wrapped by it...we only have to breathe. In the same way, we are surrounded by, and immersed in divinity, it is only that, "we" have to open "our eyes"...no body can look for us ....we have to do only that much. Somebody may guide us in achieving our objective, but ultimately, we have to make ourselves receptive to that divinity, which as said before, it is nowhere outside nor far...it is right within ourselves. But in spite of having it within, we are without it. Why? Because of the veil of layers of impurities, so, according to the wise ones, the only thing we have to try hard with all our heart, mind and soul, is just, focus our attention on our objective, and sincerely put the efforts of removing those layers. And that is, that simple as switching the light on. When the light appears, the darkness automatically and immediately runs away...but the switching on, has to be done by us. Enlightened or not enlightened, the Natural Light, is the same for all, it is the right of all beings...nobody can say this is my (Sun)light.... The light is already there for everybody, and, it is our birthright, irrespective of color, class or creed. Only willingness is needed, and above all, Grace is needed...both go hand by hand. Sach-Chit-Anand.
yogishankar	Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 4:56:59 PM Enlightenment should be earned and not possible to receive as gift. There should be atleast an attempt and work needs to be done. Ofcourse glimpse of Enlightenment is possible thru shakthipat.
Ananda	Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 9:26:22 PM quote: Originally posted by Will Power quote: Originally posted by Ananda One of my suffi friends, the middle man between me and my sheikh told me the last time I met him I would cut off from the path again.. I was surprised and told him yet again I will.. Even after all I've experienced and seen... He smiled and said Yes... After around 50 days it happened so and I really couldn't take it. I am sharing this to tell you that being with a master is not as easy as people think it is. It has great benefits but it could be hell at times. But definitely it's worth it. Love, Ananda Interesting. I'm wondering what would have happened had he not told you that, or had he told you that you would stay with the path with an iron will. Like whe in The Matrix when the oracle tells neo that he'll break a jar, and he does, and the she aks him if he would have broken it if she hadn't said anything. For me a powerful thought of confidence in your path from a master is one of the best gifts that one could have. Reminds me of the film Inception, and something that happened to me 2 o 3 years ago. At that time, I took a teenager cousin of mine a couple of days with me to help her with her studies. She has serious psychological problems, and I tried to teach her simple breath meditation. She tried it and was almost constantly moving her body, and after a couple of minutes she left the practice and said that she hated yoga and she no longer practised. From time to time, when I saw her I'd tell her that yoga and meditation helps calming the mind and brings you to stillness, but she was very rebellious. My mother always said, why bother, it's for nothing. Some days my cousing told me that she was practising yoga and that she loved it! I was very happy to hear it, and I realized how powerful planting a seed thought is, the thing is that it takes time to germinate. Please note that I am not saying that I am a master or something, just that it's amazing how thoughts (positive and negative) expand. I am not saying either that your friend didn't act correctly saying that to you. Dear, I totally understand what you're saying and know your good intentions behind it... But with Yassine, it's being with a totally different caliber of teacher or human being for that matter... He knows what's best and works in ways I can't grasp or understand with my limited mind... Instead of learning you get unlearning and good grinding of the ego... We were there in the presence of Truth shining with all its' glory. It really happened and it was beyond the beyond for me and others... I can't be grateful enough. On the other hand, my sheikh in Tunis told me I would have certain experiences after 4 months and contact him and it happened so... He also told me that God willing I will be enlightened with a gentle certitude in his tone. I've come to the understanding recently that our egos cannot push their way or get enlightenment. It is something beyond ego and is only GIVEN. I have been putting too much effort for a long time on the path and still kind of am but I am directing the whole thing in a much gentler way now... While taking it more easy on myself... Because I have exhausted my body and self way too much... It's time to surrender... It's not in my hands. Love, Ananda
gentlep	Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 9:00:44 PM ok, I had this question too. Why can't the enlightened just purify us.
harsharan000	Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 7:11:07 PM Just let us take the example of Sunlight. The Sun gives and spreads light equally all around....but only that home benefits fully and gets more light and energy, the one, which has it�s window cleaner or cleanest. In the same way the enlightened one, may want to share it�s knowledge, it�s level of spirituality with us, but it is very necessary to have that purity, that cleanliness within ourselves, in order to be receptive to the maximum amount possible, of that energy coming from the enlightened one.... And to achieve that purity, Yoga and all that evolves around it, play an important role, in the pursuit of that achievement.
Will Power	Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 07:46:25 AM quote: Originally posted by Ananda One of my suffi friends, the middle man between me and my sheikh told me the last time I met him I would cut off from the path again.. I was surprised and told him yet again I will.. Even after all I've experienced and seen... He smiled and said Yes... After around 50 days it happened so and I really couldn't take it. I am sharing this to tell you that being with a master is not as easy as people think it is. It has great benefits but it could be hell at times. But definitely it's worth it. Love, Ananda Interesting. I'm wondering what would have happened had he not told you that, or had he told you that you would stay with the path with an iron will. Like whe in The Matrix when the oracle tells neo that he'll break a jar, and he does, and the she aks him if he would have broken it if she hadn't said anything. For me a powerful thought of confidence in your path from a master is one of the best gifts that one could have. Reminds me of the film Inception, and something that happened to me 2 o 3 years ago. At that time, I took a teenager cousin of mine a couple of days with me to help her with her studies. She has serious psychological problems, and I tried to teach her simple breath meditation. She tried it and was almost constantly moving her body, and after a couple of minutes she left the practice and said that she hated yoga and she no longer practised. From time to time, when I saw her I'd tell her that yoga and meditation helps calming the mind and brings you to stillness, but she was very rebellious. My mother always said, why bother, it's for nothing. Some days my cousing told me that she was practising yoga and that she loved it! I was very happy to hear it, and I realized how powerful planting a seed thought is, the thing is that it takes time to germinate. Please note that I am not saying that I am a master or something, just that it's amazing how thoughts (positive and negative) expand. I am not saying either that your friend didn't act correctly saying that to you.
Etherfish	Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 6:03:25 PM Yes i think that is exactly it Karl, All the little bits of hell people report experiencing would be thrown at you at one time. I'm positive i couldn't take that, because i'm often on the edge of overload already. I don't think a "master" can absorb all that crap from someone else without destroying their identity, which would leave them unable to live a normal life. You could be blissfull all day long in isolation and a straightjacket! Not my idea of heaven. I think that's why Yogani emphasizes returning to daily life in between meditation: because most of our hidden craziness has to do with interaction.
karl	Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 08:44:27 AM The answer isn't in the giving but in the receiving SRM repeated it many times " yes I can give but are you prepared to accept the gift" So the self discovered are transmitting already, it's that the receiving equipment is not yet developed sufficiently. Ultimately the Guru is actually inside and is already enlightened, yet still this gift cannot be taken.
crazymandrew	Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 12:33:43 AM I've had experiences where a spirit was pumping tons of energy threw my aura. It was cool, it was almost like I was on a psychedelic. My take would be that if it's possible, spirits outside of the physical world could possibly do it too. I've also experienced certain nature spots that really help me.
Ananda	Posted - Jun 03 2012 : 03:48:33 AM Yes dear beetsmyth, according to my personal experience and those of my friends... There are higher beings present around every now and then. I won't fool you as others might, purification on the suffi path in the beginning is really rough and not easy... It will keep on pushing you until you say enough... But you know how you use a thorn to remove another one and then suddenly you're relieved the thorn is off... It has been pretty much like this over here. I am not into tradition and have never been.. I pray muslim, christian, hindu and practice meditation and it's all good. I've taken what's best from all systems I've encountered and have formed a set of practices for myself from the suffi and Yogi traditions... One of my suffi friends, the middle man between me and my sheikh told me the last time I met him I would cut off from the path again.. I was surprised and told him yet again I will.. Even after all I've experienced and seen... He smiled and said Yes... After around 50 days it happened so and I really couldn't take it. I am sharing this to tell you that being with a master is not as easy as people think it is. It has great benefits but it could be hell at times. But definitely it's worth it. Love, Ananda
beetsmyth	Posted - Jun 03 2012 : 01:38:06 AM i went to see a certain sufi master for a retreat, and one night woke up in the middle of the night with some being standing on my back with me, not able to move one bit. So I prayed a protection prayer, chirstian mystic based orthodox prayer mantra, and the being got off me. The next day I went back to the retreat, and the sufi master mentioned that their are beings all around the master, especially old master who have since died who still stick around and help initiate others into Oneness. I got a real bad vibe when whatever it was, was standing on my back in the middle of the night and havent really been back since, so I will have to think about his one some more.
Ananda	Posted - May 30 2012 : 11:23:38 AM In the suffi tradition I am involved in... Glimpses which may last a short/long while every now and then within the presence of the sheikh or an advanced fakir are very common and I've experienced them firsthand many times. But I've been told that even though they can give ongoing enlightenment they won't do it. They can take the sadhaka to a certain stage and from there he should carry his own weight to oneness via spiritual practices. I've experienced the same as well when I went to India, but the experience around the suffies I've met is so much more real and intense and it feels just so very true and it has the perfume of fullness written all over it. Love, Ananda
cff	Posted - May 30 2012 : 09:12:17 AM The only people I am aware who can give you any such transmissions are a type of entity known as an "Initiator". The only two I am aware of as of now are the Mahavatar Babaji and the Greater Initiator Noah. The immortal Noah from the Deluge was initiated into the rank of Greater Initiator by Lord Babaji himself. It was The Revered Father "Babaji" who bestowed upon my Guru the greatest achievement of Nirvikalp Samadhi... Can you imagine... the greatest Samadhi can simply be graced. What is then the extent of evolution of any such giver. I wish I could touch their blessed feet.
Radharani	Posted - May 30 2012 : 05:59:33 AM quote: Originally posted by tonightsthenight My take is that yes, one could transmit a condition of enlightenment to another person in this state. However, the condition would be temporary because perpetual enlightenment requires the appropriately purified and evolved vessel. agreed. shaktipat can awaken the seeker but the work still needs to be done to establish the state.
Bodhi Tree	Posted - May 28 2012 : 6:56:57 PM Great lesson on the topic: Shaktipat: Direct transmissions of spiritual energy - http://www.aypsite.org/146.html I've certainly received a dose of enlightenment from when I first stumbled upon the AYP website and writings. Practice will sustain and expand upon the initial inspiration or preview.
cosmic	Posted - May 28 2012 : 6:21:04 PM Can't A Sadhaka just Receive Enlightenment?
jeff	Posted - May 28 2012 : 6:10:29 PM I believe it would also be theoretically possible, but burning through all of the necessary obstructions that fast to do it... Not pretty...
beetsmyth	Posted - May 28 2012 : 5:26:52 PM quote: Originally posted by tonightsthenight My take is that yes, one could transmit a condition of enlightenment to another person in this state. However, the condition would be temporary because perpetual enlightenment requires the appropriately purified and evolved vessel. Yeah I agree, but a transmission would help one get a taste of it and be easier to let go into that if that makes sense. One of my good friends Once opened his third eye and had it open for months and when I visited him, just being next to him opened my third eye
tonightsthenight	Posted - May 28 2012 : 4:44:25 PM My take is that yes, one could transmit a condition of enlightenment to another person in this state. However, the condition would be temporary because perpetual enlightenment requires the appropriately purified and evolved vessel.