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Liberation Unleashed

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			$Prayer [/\]$

[quote][i]Originally posted by mr_anderson[/i]
[br]Carson, I agree and I disagree.

I think if people are getting stuck in "believing" they are liberated because they have an intellectual understanding of non-duality, or maybe even a temporary seeing of no-self, largely because they don't know enough about what Realization/Enlightenment means to realize they have a [long] way to go, then there's a problem. I feel like LU kind of encourages this, by calling everyone who can recognize "no self" liberated. This could be a trap for inexperienced spiritual seekers, and egos who are quick to jump and call themselves liberated.

On the other hand, Direct Pointing is actually a valid and useful technique for negating false beliefs. I was strongly identified with a self, a self who was seeking blah blah blah, until LU's method gave a direct insight into the erroneous nature of this belief. For me this was the first time that I'd really started to look at what I'd accepted as "true" (with regard to sense of identity) and question it for myself.

The following happened after this:

Direct experiences of no-self. For my entire life, consciousness has been identifying itself as what is perceived: visual image of body, bodily sensations, emotions, thoughts etc. Whilst there had been some disidentification with thoughts and emotions, never had had the experience of just being pure consciousness in which all these perceptible phenomena are arising. Suddenly I experienced all perceptible phenomena as empty of self, as simply arising in consciousness, perceptible phenomena lost that sense of being "the only reality".

Complete disidentifiation with mind: I'm no longer believing any mental stories. This in itself, is pretty liberating. I'd already had a good deal of calling the mind on its own BS, but now there is a total dropping of mental stories about life, from moment to moment.

Fierce increase in bhakti: these glimpses dramatically increased my desire for spiritual practice

Complete change in spiritual practice: If I'm honest with myself, I mainly started doing AYP with a vague idea of what enlightenment might be, and just generally wanting ecstasy, and some kind of end to the constant suffering of life. This is an attachment in itself, that I now recognize as having blocked me from recognizing reality. The orientation has changed: From wanting to feel better, to a furious, intense desire to realize the truth, even if it results in my own dissolution.

blah blah blah - I wont bore you with any more details. What I'm saying though, in essence, is that LU was a really important catalyst for a direct, experiential shift in spiritual practice, and it also completely blew up my certainty about sense of identity. Not having a clear belief about who I am anymore, and then being curious to find out, has opened the door for a more direct experience of reality.

I think this is some pretty important progress, and LU was the valuable catalyst for this.

But I think LU should come with a disclaimer saying "just because you've eradicated the erroneous belief that you are an individual self, doesn't mean you are enlightened, or really even liberated, there is a hell of a lot more work to do". lol.

[8D]

[/quote]

T O P I C R E V I E W
Ananda	Posted - Mar 11 2012 : 08:11:40 AM A great website with true and honest people http://liberationunleashed.com/index.html a global movement of people helping others to see through the illusion of self, that there is no separate entity behind the word ‘me’. We guide the seeker to pass through what is often called the ‘Gateless Gate’ or in classical terms, Stream Entry to Enlightenment or Truth Realization. The awakened journey begins here. We use the Direct Pointing method, which consists of a dialogue between a guide and seeker. The guide poses very specific questions in order to focus the attention on the seeker’s experience of the present moment. This triggers the awakening insight often referred to as ‘seeing no-self’. All you need to do is bring your honesty, curiosity and courage. If you are ready to look directly at experience, we are ready to guide you. Click on the link, and follow the instructions there to engage with a guide. The guide will help you, through direct questioning, to dive deep into your own experience. We will not give you more concepts, we will question those that you already have until you are left face to face with reality. It is that simple. Simple, but at times fears arise. It takes courage to question your deepest beliefs. We try to work with directness and courtesy, but if we find resistance in looking, we might use the Zen stick to bring focus back to the Gate. By 'crossing the Gateless Gate', the illusion of the separate self is seen through. This is the end of the seeker and the beginning of living as the natural state. We ask nothing from you except your own intention to see. We make a bold claim. Awakening is available now, in a short time, on the internet and for free. If you are ready, get Posting Rights. Welcome to Liberation Unleashed
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Ananda	Posted - Aug 04 2012 : 9:07:43 PM Much love to u my brother. I am happy for u. Namaste
cosmic	Posted - Aug 04 2012 : 2:41:36 PM And BTW, I highly recommend Liberation Unleashed for anyone who's ready to see the truth. If you're 100% honest and open, this seeing will happen very quickly (like days). And it's only a beginning. There's still deeper work to do, but it's an amazing starting point to a more authentic life.
cosmic	Posted - Aug 04 2012 : 2:35:21 PM Dear Ananda, Thank you for posting this and bringing LU to my attention. I went through the process this week, and a profound shift occurred. I've had limited success with "Who am I?" type inquiry. Despite having plenty of inner silence, it always felt non-relational and intellectual. LU was very clear and precise (and direct!). While I already saw that the word "I" was just a thought that pointed to something, it hadn't occurred to me to actually look at what it points to. When I looked, I saw that it points to nothing! And I saw the concept of "I" (not just the word) as empty of self. Some of the effects of this seeing: * Increased desire to speak from direct experience, rather than from what I've heard, read, or been taught. Speaking from indirect knowledge feels like lying. * Clearly seeing the unreality of words and thoughts. I knew intellectually that words aren't truth, but now I see and experience this. As thoughts arise, they are seen through. "Questioned" is not entirely accurate, as it's so clear they're unreal that questioning isn't necessary. * Spontaneity and decreased seriousness of life. Life is seen as an interplay of energies, nothing solid here, so the heaviness has lifted to a large degree. Old patterns and habits are seen through, so interactions are more fresh and spontaneous. * Activation of constant, relational inquiry. Inquiry works now and is automatic. I can't help but see the bullshit nature of thoughts. Certain patterns still stick me, but I can easily see through them and detach. There's probably more, but it's Saturday and the mind wants to be quiet and relax now Thanks again, brother. Much love to you and all reading this. Namaste _/\_ cosmic
CarsonZi	Posted - May 09 2012 : 3:55:23 PM Hi Anthem quote: Originally posted by Anthem11 I should follow up, I looked outside the One on One forum and can see how this was your opinion, definitely a lot of non-duality posturing going on! Seems to give more credence to human consciousness transformation not being an overnight thing that is for sure! A good opportunity for a little inquiry none the less. Yeah, my judgement of "neo-advaita" was primarily based on my interactions with many of the members on their FB group which I was granted access to after being declared "liberated" (saying that always makes me laugh a hearty one on the inside ). I know that there is plenty of benefit to be had through the process, and that many of the people are genuine, authentic and loving individuals, I just have red flags all over the place whenever someone declares themselves or others as liberated. Making a stand like that is always a trap in my opinion. Just my opinion. I agree with you that the process is a good opportunity for inquiry, but really, what moment isn't a good opportunity for inquiry if you are open to it? Hahaha, just being a nerd. Anyway, not trying to knock LU, there was still some benefit there for me and obviously for many others as well, I just find the whole declaring oneself and others to be liberated as, well, counter-productive to continued growth. Again, just my opinion (I gots lots ) Love! Carson
Anthem11	Posted - May 09 2012 : 10:02:17 AM quote: Originally posted by Ananda Dear Anthem, I am not LU's advocate but going through the gateless gate and being aware of it really helped over here and it has helped others whom I know... There is follow up group after the process and it's not one of those one shot cure it all... Even though there's a lot of talk about this stuff but the people who are in charge know that this is just a step forward. A big step IMHO... I've spoken with them at first after going through the gate and they told me that this is not the end but a new beginning... I took the chance to introduce AYP and breath meditation and the awareness watching awareness meditation methods later for those who'd like to follow up on the their spiritual evolution. Speaking from here, forward or backward do not matter anymore. Neither do names like neo or traditional... Nor does enlightenment for that matter. I sort of realize within me now that there is always something more in becoming less... Even the advaita sages whom I've met or read for speak of new realizations going on all the time. Most important thing is to be happy and at ease right here and now. I am really happy you're posting in the forums again. Whenever I read one of your posts like the one you posted in Carson's topic recently I sense wisdom and the perfume of silence. Thank you for being available Much love to you. namaste Hi Ananda, Thanks for the kind words, the urge to post comes and goes, sometimes it is necessary these days for me to exit the "spiritual world" for extended periods of time and I have to go with those impulses in both directions as they come and go. I agree with all your points about LU and see it is helpful too. Just wanted to add in the last post that it is not a one time awakening but as you point out they acknowledge that too which is important. There are so many ways we can get stuck in a limited view of things and as I mentioned before in other posts, I see that process of recognizing limited view points based on static periods of time as continuing to let go into silence and not knowing forever onwards.
Ananda	Posted - May 09 2012 : 01:33:50 AM Dear Anthem, I am not LU's advocate but going through the gateless gate and being aware of it really helped over here and it has helped others whom I know... There is follow up group after the process and it's not one of those one shot cure it all... Even though there's a lot of talk about this stuff but the people who are in charge know that this is just a step forward. A big step IMHO... I've spoken with them at first after going through the gate and they told me that this is not the end but a new beginning... I took the chance to introduce AYP and breath meditation and the awareness watching awareness meditation methods later for those who'd like to follow up on the their spiritual evolution. Speaking from here, forward or backward do not matter anymore. Neither do names like neo or traditional... Nor does enlightenment for that matter. I sort of realize within me now that there is always something more in becoming less... Even the advaita sages whom I've met or read for speak of new realizations going on all the time. Most important thing is to be happy and at ease right here and now. I am really happy you're posting in the forums again. Whenever I read one of your posts like the one you posted in Carson's topic recently I sense wisdom and the perfume of silence. Thank you for being available Much love to you. namaste
Anthem11	Posted - May 08 2012 : 8:55:17 PM quote: P.S> I went through the Liberation Unleashed process after Miguel mentioned it in the "Suicide" thread and in my opinion this is neo-advaita at it's finest. Just my opinion.... don't shoot. Hi carson, I should follow up, I looked outside the One on One forum and can see how this was your opinion, definitely a lot of non-duality posturing going on! Seems to give more credence to human consciousness transformation not being an overnight thing that is for sure! A good opportunity for a little inquiry none the less.
Ananda	Posted - May 06 2012 : 07:53:11 AM Thanks a lot dear Anthem
maheswari	Posted - May 06 2012 : 07:48:56 AM very true dear Anthem
Anthem11	Posted - May 06 2012 : 07:34:21 AM In my opinion, I'll just add that in short, the LU site offers people an opportunity for some good inquiry that can deepen their understanding of their true nature. As for complete liberation or enlightenment, these are concepts that can be transcended eventually as well. Enlightenment seems to be a pretty loaded word with so many false concepts attached to it. It also seems to be associated with some kind of final attainment which could give people the idea of a stopping ground, as in I'm done, I'm enlightened. As long as these words are strung together, the concept of "I" has not yet completely dissolved, the identity has just moved into new territory.
maheswari	Posted - May 05 2012 : 12:14:59 PM quote: Open recipients can draw what they need out of anyone/ anywhere. when the student is ready the "teacher" appears
Anthem11	Posted - May 05 2012 : 09:56:22 AM quote: Originally posted by CarsonZi quote: Originally posted by Bodhi Tree I'll paraphrase the very good Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh: It's more dangerous to become attached to the notion of no-self (anatman) than the notion of self (atman). Now it's my turn Bodhi Tree! "Echo echo echo echo....." Love! Carson P.S> I went through the Liberation Unleashed process after Miguel mentioned it in the "Suicide" thread and in my opinion this is neo-advaita at it's finest. Just my opinion.... don't shoot. I went through the LU site in the last couple of days and really liked it and what they are trying to do. I read a only few exchanges (which could skew things) and found them very sincere in their attempt of using pointers to direct people to see how the "I" thought arises etc. I really enjoyed reading Miguel's thread and Innercall's thread too and vicariously experienced a deepening by contemplating the questions the guides sent their way. I didn't find it "neo-advaita" but more the opposite of getting past all concepts. Just throwing a different view-point Carson, know you won't mind. These days I see it as being all about the recipient rather than the "teacher". Open recipients can draw what they need out of anyone/ anywhere. It always fascinates me that in those times in life when I am in the "instructing" role, how amazing things can come out in the interaction, that I never could have consciously planned to say when the recipient is sincere and open. Then there may be learning for the recipient but definitely also the potential for deepening for "the teacher" in my experience in these situations.
Ananda	Posted - May 03 2012 : 01:05:35 AM I agree with you both, great inputs. Thank you for sharing dear ones Dear Bodhi, you remind me of the words of Sri Ramana on the non existence of a doer in all this. Someone asks him how to realize that there really is no doer and Sri Ramana suggests to either just do stuff and realize right then and there that stuff are done without a doer or there's the second approach to realize that "All is done through you by God." I've personally chosen the latter Love, Ananda
Bodhi Tree	Posted - May 03 2012 : 12:06:45 AM I'm operating on the belief, assumption and experience that, in fact, the truth of self is a paradox: the individual ego DOES exist as an extension of the ONE. Since awareness can identify a single flicker within a fire full of flames, can you truly deny either the single flame or the entire fire's existence? The whole depends upon the individual, and the individual upon the whole. A paradox.
Anthem11	Posted - May 02 2012 : 11:15:12 PM quote: [i]But I think LU should come with a disclaimer saying "just because you've eradicated the erroneous belief that you are an individual self, doesn't mean you are enlightened, or really even liberated, there is a hell of a lot more work to do". lol. I see it this way as well, there are all the infinite assumptions and conclusions people, including those who recognize that it is all just arising in a field of consciousness (and see no I) have made about the world/ existence, that will come back to visit for all eternity, until the illusions are seen through. Ironically, this often includes fixed thoughts and ideas about other people, i.e judgements about the world, etc. It would seem that most if not all people have had the experience of seing past a limiting view about another person, situation, previously held belief, etc. until understanding is expanded by becoming less limited. For example, seeing that there is no "I" can come long before seeing that a certain situation or object may not be as it seems. Or that there are deeper dimensions of understanding that can arise about the surrounding world/ universe. The latter I see as continuing on indefinitely. The universe is a living, changing phenomena and an open mind will also continue to let go of previous perceptions and become a smoother and more efficient operator in the world of form.
Ananda	Posted - May 02 2012 : 03:36:33 AM Dear Yuri, What is available there is not full enlightenment but non the less a great shift that helps our self inquiry a step further. That is all. Love, Ananda
Yuri	Posted - May 02 2012 : 02:06:02 AM More sceptical view. I visited this site. It promises to give liberation though Internet conversation (answering to guide questions) during 2-3 weeks time, sometimes faster. Enough examples on the site where people became "liberated" as they say. Looks like mind games to me. May be useful as small assisting tool, but nothing more. Also what striked me - guides ask maximum honesty from novices (it's understandable); but no information on guides themselves is given.
karl	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:14:46 PM quote: Originally posted by maheswari even LU is not in control
mr_anderson	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:16:00 PM
maheswari	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 12:23:05 PM quote: But I think LU should come with a disclaimer saying "just because you've eradicated the erroneous belief that you are an individual self, doesn't mean you are enlightened, or really even liberated, there is a hell of a lot more work to do". lol. totally agree with this statement in your case it happened because you were ready...LU had no role in it...even LU is not in control
mr_anderson	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 11:02:34 AM Carson, I agree and I disagree. I think if people are getting stuck in "believing" they are liberated because they have an intellectual understanding of non-duality, or maybe even a temporary seeing of no-self, largely because they don't know enough about what Realization/Enlightenment means to realize they have a [long] way to go, then there's a problem. I feel like LU kind of encourages this, by calling everyone who can recognize "no self" liberated. This could be a trap for inexperienced spiritual seekers, and egos who are quick to jump and call themselves liberated. On the other hand, Direct Pointing is actually a valid and useful technique for negating false beliefs. I was strongly identified with a self, a self who was seeking blah blah blah, until LU's method gave a direct insight into the erroneous nature of this belief. For me this was the first time that I'd really started to look at what I'd accepted as "true" (with regard to sense of identity) and question it for myself. The following happened after this: Direct experiences of no-self. For my entire life, consciousness has been identifying itself as what is perceived: visual image of body, bodily sensations, emotions, thoughts etc. Whilst there had been some disidentification with thoughts and emotions, never had had the experience of just being pure consciousness in which all these perceptible phenomena are arising. Suddenly I experienced all perceptible phenomena as empty of self, as simply arising in consciousness, perceptible phenomena lost that sense of being "the only reality". Complete disidentifiation with mind: I'm no longer believing any mental stories. This in itself, is pretty liberating. I'd already had a good deal of calling the mind on its own BS, but now there is a total dropping of mental stories about life, from moment to moment. Fierce increase in bhakti: these glimpses dramatically increased my desire for spiritual practice Complete change in spiritual practice: If I'm honest with myself, I mainly started doing AYP with a vague idea of what enlightenment might be, and just generally wanting ecstasy, and some kind of end to the constant suffering of life. This is an attachment in itself, that I now recognize as having blocked me from recognizing reality. The orientation has changed: From wanting to feel better, to a furious, intense desire to realize the truth, even if it results in my own dissolution. blah blah blah - I wont bore you with any more details. What I'm saying though, in essence, is that LU was a really important catalyst for a direct, experiential shift in spiritual practice, and it also completely blew up my certainty about sense of identity. Not having a clear belief about who I am anymore, and then being curious to find out, has opened the door for a more direct experience of reality. I think this is some pretty important progress, and LU was the valuable catalyst for this. But I think LU should come with a disclaimer saying "just because you've eradicated the erroneous belief that you are an individual self, doesn't mean you are enlightened, or really even liberated, there is a hell of a lot more work to do". lol.
Ananda	Posted - Mar 11 2012 : 12:35:37 PM quote: Originally posted by CarsonZi P.S> I went through the Liberation Unleashed process after Miguel mentioned it in the "Suicide" thread and in my opinion this is neo-advaita at it's finest. Just my opinion.... don't shoot. Whatever works Speaking for myself, I am happy with the results. A serious shift has happened. It's like being samyama now. I wouldn't share this thing if it didn't really help me out. Love, Ananda
Ananda	Posted - Mar 11 2012 : 12:32:38 PM quote: Originally posted by Bodhi Tree I'll paraphrase the very good Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh: It's more dangerous to become attached to the notion of no-self (anatman) than the notion of self (atman). This is the beauty of this whole thing, there's being awareness. No self is just a word. It's just waking up from the mind story. Everything is still here, it's just different. As for attachments, they have never been so transparent. But then again I am speaking from my own experience, I've noticed some of the people there struggeling with thoughts and mind games after passing through the gate. But a lot of others are living good.
Ananda	Posted - Mar 11 2012 : 12:27:16 PM quote: Originally posted by emc The design seems to be that you can't SEE until the nervous system is ripe. If you haven't done a great deal of work in earlier lives, but then you are born with a ripe nervous system. It's only seen as simple after the fact! Please, never forget how frustrating it is to not see before you do. Don't worry dear, I haven't forgotten this fact. On the other hand, I can't help but think that to some who are over there the awakening has happened only on the mental level. Reminds me again of relational and non relational self inquiry... Maybe I am wrong of course. Love, Ananda
Bodhi Tree	Posted - Mar 11 2012 : 11:43:08 AM P.S. I really like "The Awakened Dreamer" -- Lori Ann, who is listed on the links section of Liberation Unleashed...splendid blogs and poetry.