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Building a Daily Practice with Self-Pacing

Can no longer meditate or do any practices

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			$Prayer [/\]$

T O P I C R E V I E W
Anthem11	Posted - Jul 05 2011 : 08:47:53 AM I hesitated a long while before writing this post as I didn't want to potentially deter anyone from practicing regular meditation or other ways of healing themselves like with inquiry, yoga postures, tantra, etc. I also didn't want to potentially encourage anyone to stop regular practices prematurely either. In the end, truth prevailed over fear and I share my story here in case others find themselves in a similar place at some point in time. I started meditating regularly about 12 years ago, first with guided meditations, once a week, then twice and eventually almost every day. After an energy awakening, I found AYP and practiced regularly twice a day, rarely missing a session for the last 6 years. My routine quickly contained almost every AYP technique on offer, as well as "asanas", tantra and a large amount of reading and inquiry. The daily routine was approximately 2+ hours of sitting practices, some asanas and a fair amount of inquiry. This routine worked very well for the first two years creating huge changes in the quality of life experienced here. Over the last 3-4 years, the routine shrank dramatically, practices were discarded and time reduced as self-pacing became a primary requirement as symptoms of "over-load" would creep in from time to time. Eventually it whittled its way down to the only viable amount with which stability could be found and that was with 6 minutes of DM twice per day, not to mention on-going inquiry. This did well for approximately 1 to 1.5 years. To my disappointment at the time, eventually that became too much as well and being stubbornly reluctant to give-up meditation, breath meditation was tried for a while and it did work. Eventually though, that proved too much as well, so then (of course) Mindfulness Meditation was tried, predictably before long the writing on the wall was undeniable. Just to be sure though, I took many breaks away from practice, only to find overload looming within a few minutes of practice each time I came back to it. So not that it was much of a decision but in the end, the only viable way to go forward was for all practices to stop. It became discernable after a couple months away that a huge momentum had accumulated over the last many years, this mind had become intensely "programmed" to "fix" itself. A multitude of techniques from multiple forms of inquiry, to acceptance, to active witnessing, to mindfulness etc. were all going on pretty much all the time. Meditating was happening through much of the day automatically. Eventually it became obvious that this mind was chasing itself in circles by trying to "fix" anything that came along which wasn't blissful or a positive feeling. It has been a letting go of all this sustained effort which happened fairly quickly once it was seen (for the most part). Understanding it is no longer necessary to "fix" anything. In fact, there was never anything to fix in the first place, just simply stay here and now and don't "travel" off into any thought patterns about any of the experiences which arise. It took a lot of practices to realize that for some reason. The mind is a possibility machine, it is just doing its job which each thought it produces. No thought is true and as long as there is no belief in the many theories of the mind, all is good. So the current practice of "do nothing" allows life to flow in a beautifully intimate way bruises, pain and all. An immediate reminder is given in the form of a sharp and painful "slap" any time a practice is tried so it is obvious that the practice is to "do" nothing for now. This doesn't mean it won't be possible in the future to meditate or do other spiritual practices again if needed, but the current "practice" of do nothing, is what is currently required. There are still many daily realizations and enhancements in the quality of life continuing to manifest. The expansion of awareness continues at an enjoyable rate so there is not much more to say.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
JosephUK	Posted - Apr 29 2013 : 5:15:00 PM I guess i'm beginning to understand where i'm at compared to others. In my ego i want bliss and ecstasy which can drive me forward but i've tripped out on amrita from my own ishta too. for now i'm happy with my shamanic journeys which are beautiful and healing. my guru is Jesus Christ and ive fought with that for a long time, i know i am an innocent person and i know i have karmas. i initially developed my bhakti through simple hypnotic techniques to stimulate the creation of love for the ego. but then like someone said above what about God and Goddess. so ive been working with my higher self which i thouroughly reccomend. i have offered it the Lords Prayer which is now prayed constantly to the Angel of the Lord my God and i have offered my prayer for silence to Shakti (for it seems to make sense that all kundalini and shakti requires is silence, inner silencce if you like to begin stirring. this seems to be purifying my karmas and is great when combined with mindfulness. it has also helped me become mindful of the Lord who is my judge when it comes to conduct. i worked with my higher self to shine all kinds of forgiving emotions on my body mind karmas such as forgiveness, inner smile, joy, peace, violet light (transmutation) and now thanks to reading this forum i offer that glory and my devotional energies to the lord (lift your heart to the lord or all your desires) so i guess just watch this space. love j
Christi	Posted - Apr 23 2013 : 07:59:22 AM quote: A state of total 'inner freedom': I.e. no longer experiencing any sort of 'negative' internal state - anxiety, fear, unhappiness, anger, in response to external stimuli or otherwise. Therefore residing in a constant state of inner peace, suffused with joy. Therefore having a sort of Eckhart Tolle-ian detachment from it all. Hi Mr. Anderson, Thanks for your sharing and honesty. Don't forget that freedom isn't gained by getting rid of all the things that you don't like, or by getting all the things that you like (or even some of them). So freedom isn't freedom from anger, or pain, or doubt or fear. It is possible to experience any emotion and stay free. So freedom is freedom beyond, rather than freedom from. A saint is even free when she is in prison. So freedom is not freedom from being fully human, but rather freedom to be fully human. The initial stage, that of the witness and of detachment (vairagya), can feel at times as if we are not fully engaged with life. But that is only a stage on the path. Beyond that is the coming into the wholeness of life, re-embracing the world if you like, but knowing fully that you are not separate from it. It is the unity/ outpouring divine love stage. Even that is not the end of the path. In both the witness and the unity stage I think it is helpful to understand freedom as freedom to be at peace with whatever arises. As Kami says above, there is nothing that is not totally spiritual, but it can appear that way when there is attachment or aversion or an ideal that is being held too tightly. Christi
kami	Posted - Apr 23 2013 : 07:23:28 AM Hi Josh, Welcome back!! Have missed you. Thank you for sharing. Very interesting, and I've come to some of the same conclusions as you and Anthem (although the Bhakti is still raging here). It is the promise of constant bliss and ecstasy that draws most of us to this path - freedom from all the ups and downs. However, that same promise is also a trap, where the seeking never ends. Like a drug, more and more seems to be required to keep up the ecstasy/bliss, and there is simultaneous cutting off from being human, as you say. There is also the expectation of "perfection in morality" amongst seekers, which in itself is binding, IMHO. There are all kinds of expectations set up in terms of experiences, feeling this or that and even what liberation is... I seem to have come full circle - starting off with Bhakti, leading to openings and experiences (including expecting to transcend human-ness altogether) to Bhakti again. But the flavor has changed - I'm super happy to offer everything to my Ishta. Mundane breaths in daily life to everything "higher" or "spiritual".. In fact, there is nothing that is not totally spiritual.. The illusion of self-effort has been lifted, the expectations of achieving this or that has eased and I'm finally learning to rest and let my Ishta take over.. Such great freedom in this. Much love.
mr_anderson	Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 1:19:39 PM Interesting topic. I had huge bhakti for my chosen ideal, which in my case, was perhaps somewhat similar to Anthem's. I imagined the following: -A state of total 'inner freedom': I.e. no longer experiencing any sort of 'negative' internal state - anxiety, fear, unhappiness, anger, in response to external stimuli or otherwise. Therefore residing in a constant state of inner peace, suffused with joy. Therefore having a sort of Eckhart Tolle-ian detachment from it all. -Complete destruction/integration of the shadow-self, resulting in becoming a being of perfect integrity and moral perfection: Basically I would no longer ever do anything selfish or say even the tiniest thing that might be cause even the slightest disharmony in the world. I�d no longer experience lust, all sexual union would be a kind of perfectly clean, spiritual, harmonious, experience that was fairly androgynous. All other aspects of moral perfection, giving me a kind of completely stainless conscience all the time. Then I had a sort of �awakening� experience last year, and I entered my ideal to a certain extent, I was in a state of constantly high levels of spiritual bliss, and �identification with form�, so to speak, seemed to break down, so all the cares of the individual human being seemed somewhat irrelevant. The Josh person seemed just to be a scripted character, less than a grain of sand in the vast ocean of manifest reality. The paradox being, the human being was experiencing freedom from being human. Or at least something along those lines. When the experience passed (it lasted the best part of a year), all desire for the aforementioned spiritual ideals was gone. I don�t really experience any bhakti anymore. I seem to have been re-formatted in a sense: I no longer have any neurosis or emotional instability, depression, mood swings and so on (which I used to get a fair bit). All of that unpleasant stuff has completely gone, since about March last year when the experience first started. I�m just pretty much a normal, emotionally balanced guy. I actually got way less sensitive, I seem to be a lot tougher than I was before, which is a surprise. I still quite frequently experience states of inner freedom and joy, but I don�t seek them anymore, as a way of escaping problems. I don�t meditate as often, although I naturally tend to find myself in states of mindful awareness. I no longer have any interest in seeking spiritual �highs�. I don�t really have any interest in becoming a morally perfect being anymore. The final realization that I got was it�s quite possible that everything is just perfect, exactly as it is supposed to be, right now, forever and always, you don�t need to change anything, the world doesn�t require you to go on a grand spiritual mission or intervene and make everything perfect, the nature of duality is that there�s always going to be good and evil, shadow and light, suffering and joy, and sentient beings in the realm of duality are always going to be made up of both� and all of that is just fine. Just enjoy yourself as much as possible, don't take it too seriously, try to help others and be honest and decent if you can, but don�t sweat it too much � their own lives are their own responsibilities, follow your intuition� and you�ll be fine. And that�s what I�m doing now. Pretty much contented with being a regular person with no particularly elevated spiritual goals.
Arman	Posted - Apr 21 2013 : 01:30:20 AM Interesting times indeed... have there been people who have become oversensitive to a point where they have had to remove most practices for an extended period of times (months?) and then eventually returned to spinal breathing and other practices? I feel like I have progressed so well over the last year or so but I feel I still have so much space to travel and I have yet become sensitive quite quickly. Likely I am over-thinking it. I didn't realize that this is happening to so many and this thread has been slightly daunting on my heart. Does this mean that perhaps in the future, perhaps soon we need to restructure the way that these practices are introduced to people? I wonder if global sensitivity will only just keep increasing? Just thoughts on my mind. Reading this thread I'm reminded of a passage from Autobiography of a Yogi. Perhaps halted practices is a grace and reminder of something... The sage locked his vibrant body in the lotus posture. In his seventies, he displayed no unpleasing signs of age or sedentary life. Stalwart and straight, he was ideal in every respect. His face was that of a RISHI, as described in the ancient texts. Noble-headed, abundantly bearded, he always sat firmly upright, his quiet eyes fixed on Omnipresence. The saint and I entered the meditative state. After an hour, his gentle voice roused me. "You go often into the silence, but have you developed anubhava?" He was reminding me to love God more than meditation. "Do not mistake the technique for the Goal."
Ananda	Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 03:37:29 AM I can't even repeat the name of Allah anymore without overloading... Something is pushing me this way and accompanied with my personal stressful life these days I can't handle strong episodes of overloading as well...
shibumi	Posted - Apr 09 2013 : 11:16:54 PM Incredible post Anthem. It took me much longer than you to figure out that transcendental meditation was turning me into a space cadet. A flakey, anxious, depressed space cadet. I tried everything to make it work - longer rest, shorter meditation, longer meditation, grounding etc. I finally took a break, and after about a week I felt like I was surfacing from madness, and remembering my old self pre-TM (the opposite of what it did to me). I feel far more centered and normal and the world makes sense again - and I can connect normally with people instead of feeling like a spaced out oversensitive wreck. I cringe when I think of some of my behaviour while I was doing this form of meditation. Interestingly enough, some of the things you talk about (accepting the good AND the bad)are tenets of zazen. Just sitting meditation, eyes open, take everything as it is, zazen. Osho also has some interesting articles on TM, zen, and meditation in general - a very unique point of view that will make you say 'aha'. Although take what he says with a grain of salt. I share your opinion that this quest for eternal 'bliss' and pain avoidance is questionable. Actually in my opinion its ridiculous - and I am having a hard time finding this thirst for bliss in Buddhas teachings. It seems like another form of attachment - similar to what drug users look for in their own roundabout crazy way. This was only my experience of course.
Ananda	Posted - Apr 08 2013 : 10:54:29 PM Dear brother, it's a personal and private experience & relation with what we consider as divine. Unlike u i can't stop from being in devotion mode or thinking about saints and repeating the names of the beloved in my heart and on my lips. Here it's sweet to pay the price but i've self paced big time bcz i have reached my limit for the time being. As per powerful practices like Dm a two momth break is smthg i need obviously or i just might be taking the easy way out.. Again this is personal.. Bcz i've been told b4 that i will get to this desert and i would have to stay in it for quite a while... This is what fakir is (poor one).. It means taking everything away... No ecstasy.. No blisss... All taken away... Leaving the ego without any experience to hold on to... Just dryness in practice and solitude in personal life plus a constant battle within one's self (spiritual and physical) i've signed up for this i guess and i can't but see myself as a coward now.. Bcz i c this as the easy way out.. It's easy and beautiful to love from a distance but it's different to die fully in the flame. Each own's path is different. This is why Yogani says the guru is in you. My inner guru is my heart. It wants to love and burn in the flames of love... But i can't let things be as they were... I am tired and it feels like i've grown ten years older in these last couple of years even my features have rapidly changed... All the best on ur path my friend and keep your ayp family within ur silence. Namaste
Anthem11	Posted - Apr 08 2013 : 8:55:53 PM quote: Originally posted by Ananda As per a certain aspect... I don't c it this way... Never did... It's a whole... A oneness. I can only speak from my own experience, and it may not be applicable to anyone else. It didn't matter that I saw it as a whole, where did my actions take me? So in other words, what was I actually doing on a daily basis? I was practicing (in numerous ways), to experience more love, light, bliss and ecstasy and less suffering throughout my life. What's wrong with this? Nothing, or at least it seemed that way until a certain point. Eventually, looking for all that had to go and so did all the practices. Life made that abundantly clear. Each had to dissolve in silence by recognizing the price and limitations for each. But this is my path so i carry on.
Ananda	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 3:05:16 PM As per a certain aspect... I don't c it this way... Never did... It's a whole... A oneness.
Ananda	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 3:03:24 PM While coming back to beirut today after a long trip north of lebanon... I remembered the words of jesus (translation from arabic)" my god my god take away this cup from me" "thy will be done" and then he was put on the cross. I felt like sharing these words here. Salam
JosephUK	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 2:17:19 PM Also for those who are experiencing perhaps too much purification as a result of an mental habit of constant self enquiry it can be helpful for you to practice samyama or self enquiry with the mantra IAM or which ever of the enhancements you use. As i have mentioned before but has been put in "other systems or approaches" their is a deity of the IAM mantra this deity can hold the mantra and your silence. this sentient being is the empowerment. He can self pace self enquiry you do, thus you can calm symptoms caused by mental habits. i hope someone understands this. love joe
JosephUK	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 12:57:57 PM This is an interesting topic and reminds me of some of the phrases i came up with when i was experiencing some difficulties. to ascend to the foundation of ones being, to cultivate bliss and ecstasy but yet be devoted to ones karmic residues/ego/repressed emotional suffering and for this also to move outward and engage lovingly and compassionately with others suffering either practically or emotionally. For me i have noticed that the phrase stillness in action and let go and let god come to mind here. Our meditation is a doing but when our enquiry and devotion are right we need not continue doing if we are not ready. The Iam mantra said with devotion does not create more inner silence it creates a little silence and a lot of devotion (imho) and this was the problem i faced, i was practicing too much bhakti. but now i am understanding that my quiet life and lots of outward silence combined with mindfulness practices during daily life and sitting are powerful enough for me to be progressing. The aspects of yoga or ayp are still present but i am not encouraging them with willful intent. i have also found that my mindfulness is developing into a gentle insight meditation which seems similar to a relational self enquiry as opposed to analysis. interestingly it may be a lesson for me to let the mantra rest very lightly in the mind rather than saying with devotion, i'm sure yogani mentioned that in his lessons. I'd like to bounce this idea of you guys: i believe the lack of mental focus our mental strength that i am considering may be a weak point of ayp in terms of those developing strong states of spiritual high without the psychic power to focus with awareness on a specific task maybe an issue for those who are diverting their minds to preferential mind states or mental remedying or fixing. Thus i am saying that the development of a mindful approach (definition being aware of what is happening while its happening) may become a standard approach for any one who is not in the witnessing state (where this approach to awareness is already present)thus it maybe something to take up like stabilizers for our ladder as we climb whilst the strong winds of bhakti or shakti are blowing. That is what arose from me from reading this very interesting thread. p.s. i do hope we can find a method where constructive feed back and criticism can be carefully and considerately resolved so that we can all participate in the evolution of the AYP practices and associated nuances, insights and previous practices which practitioners bring. love Joe
maheswari	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 11:45:17 AM
Anthem11	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 10:27:18 AM quote: Originally posted by Ananda That's beautiful dear Anthem... Thank you for sharing... Your words of insight based on personal experience are a great gem... I understand it's time to put my feet on the ground as well... But I can't stop being in devotion mode... Even though I've decided to stop meditation... I can't help but be in love with the divine and repeat the name of Allah inside my heart... Maybe that has become an ingrained habit and a way of escaping from what is lacking inside as you said... I still have time to find out for myself... The price of doing practices or interacting with spiritual teachers is getting higher over here as well... But I am willing to still pay it on and off... But the constant pushing like before I am really done with that... Again thank you for your valuable input... Hi Ananda, The question comes up from what you wrote, devotion to what exactly? The divine? What aspect of it? If for me, the divine is defined as being the sacred, or blissful, or ecstatic, or love or some aspect of the "positive" spectrum of reality, then I am trying to look at (and take) only part of the whole picture. Give me the sugar but keep the bitter coffee. Those are easy things to "be in love with". It is nice to go along for the ride on these heavenly experiences, but what about the divine in hurt, anguish, fear, and pain etc.? It would be nice to extract those "positive" experiences and perpetuate them 24/7 and leave the rest to the side, but from my point of view this is only half the equation. All experiences are equally divine, from my point of view, the pain included. By embracing everything that life can bring, there is peace underlying all experiences as we accept the inevitability of all aspects of life. And there is also the experiences, with all the colour and richness which yield perpetual learning and expansion of our ability to navigate life. Personally, I can no longer leave any of it aside anymore without consequences, so I don't bother trying.
Ananda	Posted - Apr 07 2013 : 02:13:15 AM That's beautiful dear Anthem... Thank you for sharing... Your words of insight based on personal experience are a great gem... I understand it's time to put my feet on the ground as well... But I can't stop being in devotion mode... Even though I've decided to stop meditation... I can't help but be in love with the divine and repeat the name of Allah inside my heart... Maybe that has become an ingrained habit and a way of escaping from what is lacking inside as you said... I still have time to find out for myself... The price of doing practices or interacting with spiritual teachers is getting higher over here as well... But I am willing to still pay it on and off... But the constant pushing like before I am really done with that... Again thank you for your valuable input...
Anthem11	Posted - Apr 06 2013 : 9:25:42 PM quote: Originally posted by Ananda I think I've reached where you are at dear Anthem when you wrote this post... It's time to take a solid decision to stop for at least 2 months... I've cut back on meditation for one week and a half recently and was practicing a very little gentle set of asanas early in the morning and that was going quite well it seems... But today woke up feeling longing for meditation and prayer after having many dreams of saints last night... The result was an overload... I've tried to live and keep on pushing under the overloading symptoms at certain times under the guide of one of my teachers... But even then the results weren't well... And after 3 months of pushing an explosion happened... Time to self pace big time. I will cut off practices for two months... Will keep on enjoying my little 10 minutes set of asanas in the morning... Unless this brings overloading symptoms as well eventually... I haven't visited the AYP site for a while now and I poke my head in tonight and see this thread revived. I had a lot of overload off and on over the last 3-4 years of AYP. I self-paced down to 6 minutes a day of mindfulness as mentioned earlier in this thread and eventually that was too much as well. The writing on the wall was clear as day, the problem was, I wasn't interested in the message, I didn't want to stop practices. When I got them right, everything felt great. If I slipped into overload I paid a high price and one that got higher as time went on. I yearned for the heavens, God, enlightenment, which was essentially a desire to escape a perceived lacking inside. There were things inside that needed, I thought, to be risen above, to expand my consciousness so that there would be no more suffering. Turns out after all those years of practice, the opposite was true, what was needed was to move down firmly into my body and embrace all those aspects inside that were suffering. I haven't done any meditation or spiritual practices for 2 years and no longer miss them. There have been times when I would like to have escaped some of the unpleasantness that life can bring by at times and slip into the blissful peace of meditation, but that is no longer a luxury I am allowed to indulge. I don't know what anyone else's path is, but mine was to go forward and embrace all aspects of life. Not to go above this world and no longer be affected by it, but to see all of the things I wanted to transcend in everyone else existing also within myself and to let suffering happen, no longer trying to escape it. Surrendering daily to the inevitability of life's pain. It will always be there and that's ok, it keeps the heart open. Wishing you all the best as you find your new way forward.
Ananda	Posted - Apr 06 2013 : 06:50:09 AM I think I've reached where you are at dear Anthem when you wrote this post... It's time to take a solid decision to stop for at least 2 months... I've cut back on meditation for one week and a half recently and was practicing a very little gentle set of asanas early in the morning and that was going quite well it seems... But today woke up feeling longing for meditation and prayer after having many dreams of saints last night... The result was an overload... I've tried to live and keep on pushing under the overloading symptoms at certain times under the guide of one of my teachers... But even then the results weren't well... And after 3 months of pushing an explosion happened... Time to self pace big time. I will cut off practices for two months... Will keep on enjoying my little 10 minutes set of asanas in the morning... Unless this brings overloading symptoms as well eventually...
maheswari	Posted - Nov 25 2012 : 06:17:08 AM update: even without sitting practices the purification and opening are happening....one has episodes of overload (minor more or less cause i am not doing sitting practices) followed by periods of no overload symptoms at all... once the process is triggered it just continues to happen....on auto pilot mode off course keep the grounding to make the process smooth more or less
Etherfish	Posted - Nov 08 2012 : 8:09:20 PM Yes, good points. I know what you mean, the personal getting in the way of best. I had self esteem problems growing up, not because of things not going "my way", but not going the way of a parent lording over me. So I finally discovered the technique of failing on purpose so people would leave me alone and shut up and quit watching. Then as I got older, I just do my best without comparing it to anything. So much easier and more aware. I was just ranting because I think there is this faulty concept in public schools that they should let everyone fail to avoid bad feelings, and I think it dampens kid's ambition.
Anthem11	Posted - Nov 08 2012 : 06:55:28 AM Originally posted by Etherfish quote: Interesting Anthem; thanks. I understand the double edged sword, but don't you think the concept of "personal best" can be very empowering? Yes it certainly can. It was the driving force in my life for decades. The problem that comes with it is the idea of "failure" when such goals aren't met. It's really presence, volume and repetition that leads to higher levels of performance, smoothness and proficiency at any task. The "personal" just gets in the way of the "best" in performing. quote: There is so much talk today about trying to help students avoid the loss of self esteem that could come from failure, that they miss the empowerment that can come from beating your own record. I look more at the word "failure". It is missing the point entirely in my opinion of "learning". People learn when they don't achieve their goals or when things don't work out as intended. Self-esteem can only be "lost" if people buy into the concept that they are somehow less if things don't go their way. Life often has other plans, can we see the value in What Is currently happening for us? quote: Of course the teacher would have to convey that there is no inadequacy with what is; only the anticipation of a miraculous future. It's two ways of looking at the same thing, neurotically or optimistically. Yes I think this is key, that whatever thoughts someone is having about right now, doesn't change the fact of What Is. Anticipating a future of a certain kind is a recipe for unhappiness in my opinion. I would be inclined to look for the miraculous in the now, not in some future that doesn't exist.
Holy	Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 10:46:42 PM You are right, the word master was not appropiate, yet I hope the meaning and intention of the post was there. Don't no, but if Yogani writes about his insights of SBP and DM then this motivates me like hell. Sure everyone goes his own way and has to find out and decide what is best for him/her =) Still, come back to the practice friends!! =P Again and again like to the mantra =)
Etherfish	Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 10:13:29 PM Interesting Anthem; thanks. I understand the double edged sword, but don't you think the concept of "personal best" can be very empowering? There is so much talk today about trying to help students avoid the loss of self esteem that could come from failure, that they miss the empowerment that can come from beating your own record. Of course the teacher would have to convey that there is no inadequacy with what is; only the anticipation of a miraculous future. It's two ways of looking at the same thing, neurotically or optimistically.
Anthem11	Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 9:28:41 PM quote: Originally posted by Etherfish Yes and yes. I was thinking about this subject, and realized that there are athletes who have mastered certain sports. But that's because sports are man made, so achieving your personal best is mastery. Hi Etherfish, I can tell you from many years as an athlete and coach, I'm yet to meet an athlete, even ones others would look at as having mastery, who didn't think there were things to improve. It's a relative word that really doesn't exist when you look at it closely. The whole notion of self mastery is a double edged sword. On one hand it leads to a person taking up a path to improve their lives, on the other, it creates a concept of inadequacy with What Is� in the mind. The very pursuit of it, creates the sense of not being it already.
Etherfish	Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 9:05:11 PM Yes and yes. I was thinking about this subject, and realized that there are athletes who have mastered certain sports. But that's because sports are man made, so achieving your personal best is mastery.