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Enlightenment Milestones

Enlightenment -removing the mystery.

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			$Prayer [/\]$

T O P I C R E V I E W
karl	Posted - Sep 06 2011 : 2:39:27 PM I thought to do a potted history to this point. My background, beliefs, what route I have taken, just so others might understand what enlightenment means and why it applies to everyone if they have the desire to search for it. I don't think I have ever really been into any form of self discovery, although a book on Transactional Analysis in my mid teens was both interesting and a great way of annoying my parents and siblings with my new understanding of the subtle games we play. My mother was an accomplished lover of anything involving pyramids, energy fields, macrobiotic diets and other things that were considered completely weird by my straight laced, no nonsense, chartered accountant Father. She bought into Carlos Casteneda and her enthusiasm resulted in my attempt at having an out of body experience. Of course, as a young male I ignored the safety briefing and got on with main event. The result was a view of my body from ceiling height and the biggest fright of my life and a panic to get back inside. That was the first and last time I have ever tried something like that. The only other thing that is any form of differentiation is a sensitivity to other worldly things. Of course now i understand how everything is possible, then it's no surprise to me that I have seen the odd ghost, but I never dwelt on it except for anecdotal purposes. We are a family of six. We were never encouraged to follow a religion or believe in God or heaven. All of us took up average jobs, got married etc. I have never been materialistic but do enjoy the good things in life, having the attitude that if I have money it's fine, if I don't that's fine too. You are probably thinking that I was a laid back sort of guy, easy come, easy go. Well actually I wasn't, I suffered bouts of depression and became easily stressed at work. I compensated by taking up activities such as motorcycling, pot holing, paragliding, mountain biking and climbing. Never went as far as taking it to the Doctor, but just tried to ride it out. It was during one of these bouts in my mid forties that I felt the need to change jobs, in fact to completely change careers. Against all the odds I ended up as a business Adviser. The story behind that was too coincidental to be considered pure chance. As an Adviser I began to realise that small business owners were about far more than business skills. It was what went on in their heads and not their skill sets that needed attention. I knew that getting inside their fears and barriers was necessary and sought a tool that bypassed the usual external barriers. One of my clients was an NLP practitioner and It became obvious to me that this was yet another opportunity placed in my path, exactly what I was looking for. The course was over �3500 and required 2 weeks in London. I asked my manager what the chances were of getting on the course. The look said it all . I went back to her having decided that I would pay for it myself and if necessary take the time as holiday. Before I could open my mouth she announced that we had been awarded exactly that amount of money which had to be spent within the next 2 weeks otherwise the money would be withdrawn. I didn't need to be asked twice. A couple of months later during the last few days I experienced what I now realise was an awakening. My world felt like it had been punctured and turned inside out. Suddenly there was a glimpse that all I could see and experience was only a perception, just in my head. After the course I came home changed for good. My family and friends had to adapt to a different person and began to notice that it was a real and permanent change. Another thing I realise now was this was the rising of the witness. I scrutinised my thoughts for anything not true, any story. So the witness was already apparent well before I started AYP, although I did not associate with it. Of course, as most of us know, despite this new persona, an awakening and an ever stronger witness, I was still getting lost in daft thoughts and stories. There was no way to avoid the pits and traps that I carefully set for myself. I began using my practitioner skills in earnest on my return to work and gradually expanded into therapy work. It wasnt long before the discovery that I was really not working on other people at all, only on myself and every 'success' resulted in another false stripe to my rapidly growing Ego. Even as I gilded the lily of the Ego there was an inner knowledge that it was false, that inside I still doubted, still got depressed and still had moments of stress which caused some minor health issues. There I was telling people how great their lives could be and yet couldn't fix my own. One day my world started to tumble down. The company I was by then chief executive of, that I had worked so hard to take from failing to over two million pounds of contracts was been carved up by the board of directors. My clients mysteriously began to either dry up, or vanish with some excuse that seemed to imply my services were not required. I found myself pushed out of a job I loved and little chance of much on the Horizon of a similar type. Life had given me chances and now life was squeezing me out of the nest as if it was meant to be. During a forced period of unemployment something nagged me. I bought books on God without religion, quantum physics. You name it and I bought it, determined to find out what was missing in me. I posted on the NLP forum, a crazy guy who was asking about getting rid of the Ego, finding peace, letting go of accumulated stuff. One of the other practitioners used a trick that we use to coach people using NLP. She simply asked what I would have if I lost the Ego, found God, got rid of needs. I read it and it had an impact that still sits with me today. As I reached the end of her short summary I had a vision. Now I don't mean one of those light bulb moments. This was a full on immersive experience, visual, audible and solid. I was in the basement of what looked like a church. There was an arched door in an alcove with a heavy iron handle. I tried to open the door with physical force but it was useless. There was something pulling me to go through and I voice asking me where I wanted to go. On giving my answer the door opened a fraction and light streamed through. I entered and found a pitch black tunnel with a piercing light at the far end. The light could have been close like a diamond, or a million miles away down the tunnel. I had no idea what I was supposed to do and just grabbed for the light. The moment I did so and I was back outside and the door was firmly locked. No way I was getting back in and it seemed like I had failed some sort of test. The haunting vision stayed with me for weeks, it blotted out my normal thought process. I began trawling the Internet for something. What it was I had no idea. I was totally driven and yet the experience with the light had dulled what I would consider normal reason. Instead of looking for something in particular I was just hunting feverishly, more like desperation, but somehow with an understanding that life would, once again deliver just what was required. This was two years ago. The book that stared back at me was a tiny, insignificant book by an unknown author with zero credentials in the spiritual world. The book was a cheap little paperback, totally simple. It was so simple that it almost seemed impossible that it could offer anything next to the well known practitioners in the field. That book was Deep Meditation by Yogani. I have meditated regularly, twice a day for 20 minutes and with 5 minutes Pranayama. I did as I was told, slipping and sliding here and there, giving up once when I thought I had gone as far as possible. The forum helped keep me focused. To keep on going. Twice a day, no expectations, with devotion, without expectation. I added self inquiry when the time was right. Just as I had been told to allow the witness to become stronger within a still mind. Several months ago I started having the odd internal voice in my head. Particularly when I woke one night with a terrible anxiety and fear. Convinced I was dying because the fear was just so intense. I was drenched with sweat and my heart was beating itself out of my chest. The voice told me to let the fear take me completely, to accept the feeling of death. It was like drowning and seemed to go on for hours. When I finally surrendered it left me. I felt drained and exhausted but understood that I had made some sort of huge transition. I started back with AYP with even more desire burning, read more, worked harder than ever. Meanwhile during this time I had gone back to work for a previous employer and hated it. I saw it as a sort of self imposed punishment, a trial of sorts to see if I could swallow my pride and go back to work at a job that never did suit me, and in a position that I would not have taken the first time around. I stuck with the job until a month ago when I realised that it was time to leave. My inner Guru was telling me to go. I had no job to go to and would be giving up a large salary. There was an element of faith and trust. It felt like another test. Did I really have the faith to just give up a steady salary at one of the worst times on the jobs front. Everyone told me I was crazy. My boss tried to bribe me with a much larger salary and anything else he could chuck in the pot. So, here I am, an unemployed AYP bum . Leading up to the leaving date it became apparent that I was hearing two new voices. These were far more stern than my previous encounter. They were scolding and extremely serious. I realised that one was Sri Nisargadatta, the other who was the final voice was Sri Ramana Maharshi. By now I wonder what you are thinking of me and I'm wondering what I should think of me when I heard these voices. it dawned on me as they coached me. This was my world, these were the Gurus That had come my way (and when the disciple is ready the Guru will appear), time and space were not exclusive, the Gurus never die because they never lived and there is no requirement to be geographically near them. They are my guides and I trusted them implicitly. So this Sunday (the Sabbath, how funny is that for a none believer) I became self realised. Now that's a bold statement, yet it is inescapable. It was like a flip of a switch it just happened. I don't know what the key was, I just followed what I was told, trusted, believed, desired and devoted myself despite lots of doubts and fears. Once I found the answer I lost whatever key it was, because things don't happen in that linear way. Everything moves towards an inevitable time, it just happened as it was meant to. Of course your going to wonder, just as I did. This bloke isn't for real, yeah I know we are doing this for a reason and somewhere is this glittering prize, but really its fools gold and I have a better chance of winning the lottery if I didn't buy a ticket. I'm just hoping I can get a bit of peace, lose some fear, get some happiness, give up the habits. You know the score. I know it because I'm no longer separated from the world. So it's attainable. I haven't been to an Ashram, I didn't spend months in India, I can hardly pronounce the technical words or work out what the proper sequence of events is supposed to be and I only followed the very basic set of instructions that Yogani gives everyone. I'm not adding loads of Ansanas, doing Sutras or anything else. If I was reading this I would want to know what it is, what it means. The truth is, it's quite ordinary and quite extra ordinary. As an example, a few years ago a few of us older people decided to try Canabis for the first time. We baked it in Cookies as directed. Except we used far too much. We took a video of the whole night. It was completely mental and we were out of our trees, doing all sorts of stuff that seemed to us like the edge of insanity. Playing the video back revealed a completely boring, ordinary scene that lasted for several hours. We couldn't quite believe it wasn't the crazy night we remembered. I see the world just the same, except now I am aware of what I am. The witness and my true self re-united and squeezed out the illusion. Now, when I say illusion, we usually take that to mean the world we see around us and really that's how I had to understand it at first in order to make progress. But it's real, just as I am real so is the world. It's a perfect creation with many levels and enormous complexity. It is driven by an infinite source that is neither created or destroyed, the source is not a dead energy, it is pure love. Not the soppy stuff, this is far deeper, infinite and supreme. Once that is realised, once theatre nature is revealed it is obvious. I am that I am, the conduit of this power and part of it. It allows a pure love of the world and total detachment at the same time. An immense depth and strength without fear and a need to serve. I still ride my motorcycle, go shopping with my wife all with total purity, just as it is and with no story to spoil it. I still shout when I stub my toe and laugh when things are funny because it is all part of me. So, there you go. That's my story. I hope it might just persuade you to keep at it, just as those on the forum have helped me.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
karl	Posted - Mar 01 2012 : 04:45:48 AM quote: Originally posted by AumNaturel Wanted to add a late thank you Karl for sharing your wonderful story of unfolding. In another topic you hinted at your past experience with self-inquiry and while searching for it came across this (: Thanks AumNaturel.
AumNaturel	Posted - Feb 29 2012 : 11:20:27 PM Wanted to add a late thank you Karl for sharing your wonderful story of unfolding. In another topic you hinted at your past experience with self-inquiry and while searching for it came across this (:
karl	Posted - Oct 03 2011 : 6:56:17 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff Thanks for your response. Sorry for being so obtuse... I did not mean "witness", but if "you" were possibly viewing through the body/mind from the perspective of being "everything"? Who notices, feels or experiences pain, joy and sadness? Thanks. Whatever the perspective it is still witnessing. Who notices? That's a primary question and is something well worth asking of the only person able to give you that answer. Yourself.
woosa	Posted - Oct 03 2011 : 4:46:48 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff ...if "you" were possibly viewing through the body/mind from the perspective of being "everything"? That would be a head fart!
jeff	Posted - Oct 03 2011 : 11:23:58 AM Thanks for your response. Sorry for being so obtuse... I did not mean "witness", but if "you" were possibly viewing through the body/mind from the perspective of being "everything"? Who notices, feels or experiences pain, joy and sadness? Thanks.
karl	Posted - Oct 03 2011 : 09:56:29 AM quote: Originally posted by jeff Karl, If you don't mind... Now that some time has passed, do you perceive a "you" who watches? Not anymore. That is witnessing.
jeff	Posted - Sep 20 2011 : 3:09:27 PM Karl, If you don't mind... Now that some time has passed, do you perceive a "you" who watches?
Etherfish	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 9:31:39 PM Yes, I LOVE the series "V", with the reptilians.
mr_anderson	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 2:30:01 PM thank you so much for sharing, v. inspiring
manigma	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 2:04:17 PM quote: Originally posted by nearoanoke quote: Originally posted by jeff Thanks. I "understand" and am beginning to "feel" it, but still do not "know" it. don't worry! nobody in this thread knows it either. Read "I AM THAT" a couple of times and you should be able to talk like that too Lol. I wonder if this is what happened to Nisargadatta as well after he listened to his guru.
manigma	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 1:59:30 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff Thanks. I "understand" and am beginning to "feel" it, but still do not "know" it. Remain sincere with your quest to know it and you will.
maheswari	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 1:48:35 PM quote: don't worry! nobody in this thread knows it either. Read "I AM THAT" a couple of times and you should be able to talk like that too it is not our job to survey who is enlightened and who is talking after reading Nisargadatta "I am That"......."we must cultivate our garden"(Voltaire/Candide)
Ananda	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 1:18:18 PM quote: Originally posted by nearoanoke quote: Originally posted by jeff Thanks. I "understand" and am beginning to "feel" it, but still do not "know" it. don't worry! nobody in this thread knows it either. Read "I AM THAT" a couple of times and you should be able to talk like that too A+
nearoanoke	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 12:39:04 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff Thanks. I "understand" and am beginning to "feel" it, but still do not "know" it. don't worry! nobody in this thread knows it either. Read "I AM THAT" a couple of times and you should be able to talk like that too
jeff	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 11:20:17 AM Thanks. I "understand" and am beginning to "feel" it, but still do not "know" it.
manigma	Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 02:50:46 AM quote: Originally posted by jeff quote: Originally posted by manigma My world is completely different. Here is no suffering. No desire. The language I use to communicate with you, is creation of mind. The hands I use to type, belong to body. I am using them now. But temporarily. Manigma, Thanks. When you are not temporarily with the body, does the body continue to go about it's day? If you are married, do your wife & children notice/experience a difference? Can you temporarily attach or communicate with another body? The wife communicates with her husband. The son plays with his father. The staff gets instructions from their boss. I watch myself playing all the roles. Someone's husband, father, brother, boss, son... its so much fun. You are asking these questions to manigma and he is answering them. But in reality you yourself are replying to your own questions. Find the source of your questions and you won't have to ask manigma anything.
jeff	Posted - Sep 12 2011 : 3:06:29 PM quote: Originally posted by manigma My world is completely different. Here is no suffering. No desire. The language I use to communicate with you, is creation of mind. The hands I use to type, belong to body. I am using them now. But temporarily. Manigma, Thanks. When you are not temporarily with the body, does the body continue to go about it's day? If you are married, do your wife & children notice/experience a difference? Can you temporarily attach or communicate with another body?
manigma	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 2:13:51 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff Manigma, Thank you On mind (or thoughts floating by)... Maybe an example... Someone cuts you off in traffic... Does irritation float by? Any momentary attachment coming through the body/mind? Or, you learn your mother has cancer when you were planing a trip... Any possible sadness for your mother or frustration because you can't go on the trip? Since there is no individual you, I am wondering if the thoughts still exist independently or are just attachments. Thanks. If you are thinking, get irritated, become sad, frustrated... know that you are dreaming, asleep. If I am to think, get irritated, be sad, frustrated... I have to come down from heaven below body mind. My world is completely different. Here is no suffering. No desire. The language I use to communicate with you, is creation of mind. The hands I use to type, belong to body. I am using them now. But temporarily.
maheswari	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 12:52:08 PM thx for the link manigma i have sex,hatred and anger only jealousy is missing for now at least
jeff	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 11:53:45 AM Manigma, Thank you On mind (or thoughts floating by)... Maybe an example... Someone cuts you off in traffic... Does irritation float by? Any momentary attachment coming through the body/mind? Or, you learn your mother has cancer when you were planing a trip... Any possible sadness for your mother or frustration because you can't go on the trip? Since there is no individual you, I am wondering if the thoughts still exist independently or are just attachments. Thanks.
manigma	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 10:03:13 AM Yes. Sex, anger, hatred, jealousy... should not be repressed. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=7343#68309
maheswari	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 05:33:09 AM quote: I had this vision once. Out of the stillness of body mind, a stem of a lotus bud rose upwards from my mooladhara, it smoothly rose upwards and when it reached the crown it blossomed. It is still blossoming. Compared to this, the ordinary sex I used to have feels like I was a Dog who needed some petting/massaging on my head "Good Dog, good kid... etc." It felt good, but temporarily. manigma.....to make things clear for all those reading this thread...for seekers who are still on the way ..repressing sex is no good...let things come gradually...otherwise it would be the spiritual bypassing pitfall http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=10319 quote: If this is what it means to be out of mind. Then I wish all of you go out of your mind. cant wait for that
Ananda	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 02:04:56 AM Thank you
manigma	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 01:44:32 AM quote: Originally posted by Ananda Manigma & Karl, how's sex? I had this vision once. Out of the stillness of body mind, a stem of a lotus bud rose upwards from my mooladhara, it smoothly rose upwards and when it reached the crown it blossomed. It is still blossoming. Compared to this, the ordinary sex I used to have feels like I was a Dog who needed some petting/massaging on my head "Good Dog, good kid... etc." It felt good, but temporarily.
manigma	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 01:39:10 AM quote: Originally posted by jeff Manigma & Karl, Is it quiet, or do (local) body/mind thoughts still float by? Yes, its very noisy and yet very quiet. The body: Its like I am within and also outside. Like emanating outside from the physical body a few inches. I can hear my own breathing much louder now. Its like being in a spacesuit or a casket. The breath seems to be my only link with the physical body. The mind: Now that you mention it. I really can't say what you mean by mind. What is mind? I don't know. Am I out of my mind? If this is what it means to be out of mind. Then I wish all of you go out of your mind.