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Yoga and Relationships

forgiveness etc

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			$Prayer [/\]$

T O P I C R E V I E W
Lili	Posted - Oct 29 2010 : 08:57:43 AM Hi Folks, I just had to do some painting work and have one wall re-plastered. I asked a couple of people I've known to do it in order to do them a favor (knew other companies that charged less), but at the end of the day they charged me over two times the value of the work they did, by quoting a 2-3 times higher work hours number. I feel very angry and betrayed. Any tips how I can forgive the painters and move on? On top of that one of the days one of the new mirrors i bought was broken in the cardboard box package before it was even installed. I am afraid that i might have broken it - e.g. by accidentally stepping on the package which also gives me the creeps. Really sorry for bothering you with this--any tips appreciated.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
amoux	Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 11:04:59 AM Hi Lili - here's a link to Scott's (quite lengthy!) article about shadows and shadow work. He suggests reading that first, before starting the process (or read a few threads in the group to get an idea of how it works): http://www.kiloby.com/writings.php?...ritingid=263 The group is on Yahoo, and is called Kiloby's Closet of Shadows Here's a link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KilobysShadows/
Lili	Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 10:08:33 AM Hi Amoux--thanks for that. Sure pls send me the details Cheers, Lili
amoux	Posted - Dec 15 2010 : 04:52:58 AM Lili - it just occurred to me that it might be helpful for you to do shadow work on this? I'm a member of an online group that does this - led by Scott Kiloby. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you the details. Basically shadow work is about identifying traits in others that are disturbing to us, and then we do the shadow work 1-2-3 process on it. It's very freeing - I recently did this on 'bullying' - and it was effective for me. Maybe it might be worth doing the process on 'cheating'? Just had the idea it might be useful for you
Lili	Posted - Dec 11 2010 : 08:47:23 AM Hi Christi, If your position is that everything is OK as it is what are we doing here? Let's close down the forum pack our bags and get busy being happy with everything as it is . If anyone has any useful tool or hint to add concerning the issues as listed in this thread plase ignore the party line and post it here Cheers, Lili
Christi	Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 01:02:51 AM quote: Originally posted by Lili Hi Christi, Why is holding on to stuff a problem? I don't see anything wrong with holding on to the stuff that you like. What's the problem with this? Cheers, Lili Yogani said it a lot better than I could have done. Thanks Yogani. quote: I was just testing the water in case someone found a shortcut in the meantime There is only one shortcut, and that's devotion. If you can cultivate intense desire for truth, then you can bypass a lot of the other sadhana. As to how to cultivate intense desire for truth (bakti)... it sounds like you've got it already. All the best, Christi
Lili	Posted - Dec 08 2010 : 06:49:28 AM Hi Yogani, Thanks--it seems cultivating permanent abiding inner silence can take decades if not more. Guess all forum members here are busy with a daily practice so working towards this, present company included. I was just testing the water in case someone found a shortcut in the meantime Cheers, Lili
yogani	Posted - Dec 07 2010 : 08:16:12 AM quote: Originally posted by Lili Hi Christi, Why is holding on to stuff a problem? I don't see anything wrong with holding on to the stuff that you like. What's the problem with this? Cheers, Lili Hi Lili: Nothing wrong with enjoying life, while knowing that all things pass. It makes life all the more precious and sacred. But "holding on" to it leads to disappointment, because circumstances will change. As the Buddha taught, "Attachment is the root of all suffering." To hold on or not to hold on is not a mental exercise. It isn't like that. When it is viewed this way, it is "non-relational" (in the mind, not in stillness), and will lead to even more suffering. The way to have everything and be bound by nothing is to cultivate and come to live in the permanence of abiding inner silence, becoming the essence of stillness in action. Then life is a flow of loving joy in all things, and there is no suffering in the constant comings and goings of life. The guru is in you.
Lili	Posted - Dec 07 2010 : 07:19:42 AM Hi Christi, Why is holding on to stuff a problem? I don't see anything wrong with holding on to the stuff that you like. What's the problem with this? Cheers, Lili
Christi	Posted - Dec 03 2010 : 06:56:15 AM Hi Lili, quote: Like the story--it's funny but not sure how to apply it as already know I am not ready for becoming a monk and stuff I wasn't suggesting that you should become a renunciate. No need for that. It was just a story to show how even people who have supposedly renounced the world, and let go of all their possessions, still hold onto things. It's really the deepest and only problem in the world. quote: The Sedona method is interesting--similar somewhat to BK and the method shared up above by Karl. It consists of 5 steps: 1. Giving the negative feeling or physical sensation space--e.g. imagining the negative feeling b-n your hands and spreading them out. 2. Asking the question: Can I let this go? (answer is always Yes :) 3. Asking the question: Do I want to (answer is again yes) 4. Asking the question: When? (now :) 5. Imagining the negative feeling going out (e.g. visualizing it as smoke or something similar like that) Sounds pretty much like what we have been doing together in this thread, no? quote: The issue is that I just want to feel OK all the time NOW--the fact that I may or may not get "there" (where ) in 20 years is of little comfort NOW. (the caps are don't mean showting btw--just emphasizing the importance of now ). Yes, it's right here, right now. Always. It's just that sometimes some inner housecleaning is needed before we can see it (as Yogani so often says). A few days ago a friend of mine told me that he wasn't interested in enlightenment, he just wanted to find peace, and to love everyone in the world. Right here. Right now. You won't find it anywhere else.
karl	Posted - Nov 27 2010 : 11:41:23 AM quote: Originally posted by Lili Thanks Karl--cool technique! At least for some time it seems to work. I guess I will have to repeat it though as not sure it will all disappear in one go. The funny thing is that when I took the emotion to put it on the hook it was looking like a white hospital doctor's coat Can I have your other several techniques also . Yes, you will need to repeat it. Is the white doctors coat significant ? For the other techniques you could try EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique), google it, it's a series of tappings which release emotion. Timeline therapy is very useful but needs a skilled practitioner present as it needs to be taught. I based the 'little hook in the corner' around it. Something else to try is to imagine a certain situation and the people involved. Pop into the person you having conflict with and through their eyes, consider what you are saying and how you are behaving (can be quite a shock). Then become a fly on the wall and watch yourself (not unlike the witness), do the same again. Pop back into your own body and see what you learned. Or just do the AYP practise. Nothing fancy to learn and a whole bunch of great people helping you out when things get difficult.
jeff	Posted - Nov 27 2010 : 11:32:13 AM As others have said in many different ways, the key is forgiveness. Anger is used by the Ego to strengthen the separation. Any mental tool to help with the forgiveness will work. Some like the concept of Divine grace - put the memory in a ball and imagine a divine light from above dematerializing it. I have found humor helpful - imagine it being eaten by something stupid (like the kids dinosaur Barney). If you can learn to laugh at (and with) yourself, it makes it all easier. Namaste, Jeff
Lili	Posted - Nov 27 2010 : 10:15:51 AM Hi Christi, Thanks for the enouragement. The issue is that I just want to feel OK all the time NOW--the fact that I may or may not get "there" (where ) in 20 years is of little comfort NOW. (the caps are don't mean showting btw--just emphasizing the importance of now ). The Sedona method is interesting--similar somewhat to BK and the method shared up above by Karl. It consists of 5 steps: 1. Giving the negative feeling or physical sensation space--e.g. imagining the negative feeling b-n your hands and spreading them out. 2. Asking the question: Can I let this go? (answer is always Yes :) 3. Asking the question: Do I want to (answer is again yes) 4. Asking the question: When? (now :) 5. Imagining the negative feeling going out (e.g. visualizing it as smoke or something similar like that) Like the story--it's funny but not sure how to apply it as already know I am not ready for becoming a monk and stuff
Christi	Posted - Nov 26 2010 : 07:04:09 AM Hi Lili, Here is another story from India: There was once a man in India who had had enough of the worldly life. He decided to give up all his possessions and become a Monk. So he went to see a teacher, who told him that he could study under him. The teacher only had a few disciples, so he didn't mind having one more. His teacher asked him if he was really ready to give everything up for the holy life? He replied that he was. So he was instructed to sell everything he had, and give all the money to the poor. When he had done this he came back to his teacher, and his teacher gave him 3 things... a cloth to put around his waist, a pot to collect his alms food in every day, and a stick to help him walk. The teacher and his disciples set out into the desert together. On the first day the teacher said they should fast that day. On the second day again he said they should fast. On the third day they came to a lake. "You are dirty", the teacher said to the man, "go down to the lake and wash". Whilst he was washing, the teacher took the man's pot, his stick and his loin cloth and he and the other disciples went and hid behind some trees. When the man came out of the lake, he was so angry, he started shouting and hopping up and down. The teacher came out from behind the trees laughing his head off. He said: "3 days ago you told me you were ready to give up all worldly possessions. And now look at you. In the whole world you only own three things, and you are acting like a madman." This is the power that maya has over the soul. Christi
Christi	Posted - Nov 23 2010 : 01:07:31 AM Hi Lili, The more inner silence we have, the deeper self-inquiry goes. And Self-inquiry helps to bring more peace to the mind, and so more inner silence. It's a two-way thing. So don't despair. It's all there for a reason. And of course yoga brings inner silence, and self-inquiry is yoga too. So everything fits together and works towards the end goal... freedom. Then you don't need any patience any more... patience for what? What is going to happen? You see? I don't have any experience with the Sedona method, so I can't help there. Let us know what it brings? Christi
Lili	Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 4:47:09 PM Hi Christi, Thanks for the train thing. Funnily enough today even before reading your post I was thinking that I am like this exact anecdote you describe as I've heard it before. I did the inquiry on i have a future as you've given it and it did seem to offer relief, but it only lasted a few seconds (my usual problem with this stuff). I think I will try the Sedona method--have you got experience with it? In Dutch the Sedona website is called http://www.laatlos.nl/ which literally means letgo.nl . Feel free to ask questions - you must have patience of a saint not to get bored with me as i'm bored with myself and my issues for a long time now
Lili	Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 4:23:52 PM Thanks Karl--cool technique! At least for some time it seems to work. I guess I will have to repeat it though as not sure it will all disappear in one go. The funny thing is that when I took the emotion to put it on the hook it was looking like a white hospital doctor's coat Can I have your other several techniques also .
karl	Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 3:34:38 PM quote: Originally posted by Lili quote: Originally posted by karl [quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3l30qhEpHw Nice set of lyrics in this song which fits that perfectly. Thanks Karl--this was a whole lecture . I am trying to let go using multiple modalities and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't work. How about that? You can let go in a simple way, it's just your mind making up a thought that it has to be some special key that releases it. So, just for you I have a fantastic, complex way to get rid of it. Well I have several, but this is one we can do over the internet. Close your eyes and go back to the time with the workmen, remember when you began to feel those negative emotions and get them to the point when they are strongest around that event. Make sure you are in the event, looking through your own eyes and when you are ready, pop out of your body and look at the scene with you in it as if it was a frozen picture. At the bottom of the picture I want you to notice a tiny little coat hook. Take the emotion and hang it on the hook and then get back into your body. Now, begin to rise up in your body and get above the event, go higher and higher, let the scene below you dwindle into the distance and all the colour fade out like a worn out black and white movie. Fade it completely out. Continue to float and come down, back into the room, in the present time and open your eyes. Do a few gentle stretching excersises. Question 1: Think back to that event where you once had that strong negative emotion. Is it there ? That's right it's gone. Question 2: Now imagine a similar event in the future, where you would have had that same strong negative emotion. See if you can feel it and you may find you cannot. Come back to Now and do a few light excersises. You can repeat this as many times as you need to. At some point you might notice there are other events that happened before this event. Just use the same technique, feel the emotion, come out and view the picture, attach emotion to hook, back in body, float up, fade out scene, come back to now and ask yourself those two questions. Always do the light excersises when you come back into now and again after the questions.
Christi	Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 06:23:55 AM quote: Originally posted by Lili quote: Originally posted by Christi Hi Lili, So for me, I would ask the same question again... "what is it that you are holding onto?". And please don't answer if you don't want to. Christi Hi Christi--I think I will try your system on the weekend when I have more time available. I think the answer is that I am holding on to everything (including my grudge ) but if I get a deeper more meaningful answer I will post it here. Thanks&Cheers,Lili Hi Lili, That's great. Holding onto everything, including your grudge! There is a famous story in India about a man on a train. He is standing up and holding is luggage. It is really heavy, but he doesn't want to put it down. After some time he starts sweating and shaking. Someone says to him: "what are you doing? You are already on the train, just put it down". So this is the thing. You are already on the train, you can just put it down. In terms of yoga, it goes pretty deep. We are talking about the 5 afflictions (kleshas) which Patanjali discussed in the Yoga Sutras. These are the 5 things that stop us from being enlightened. Let them all go, and that's it. The big lights. Number five is clinging. If you are doing the inquiry (and I'll offer you the next step as I see it, because it's a bit subtle), I'd say you must be clinging to the idea that you have a future. If you were not clinging to this idea, then you would not have the sense that you need to hold on to money, possessions, or grudges. Someone once asked Byron Katie if she had plans to expand her School where she teaches and to try and make the Work more available to people around the world. She replied: "I have no plans. I am a woman without a future". So this is the sense of timelessness (akala in Sanskrit), no clinging to the past or the future. If you are doing The Work, you could use the line: "I have a future. Is it true? If someone is really ripe, then this kind of inquiry could take them completely beyond the issue. Personally I find that it can help a little, but at the end of the day, meditation is a much more sure way of dropping attachments. I won't ask you any more questions, unless you want me to. In which case I'll happily grill you to the world's end (literally). All the best Christi
Lili	Posted - Nov 15 2010 : 5:55:51 PM quote: Originally posted by karl [quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3l30qhEpHw Nice set of lyrics in this song which fits that perfectly. Thanks Karl--this was a whole lecture . I am trying to let go using multiple modalities and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't work. How about that?
karl	Posted - Nov 15 2010 : 1:32:50 PM quote: Originally posted by Lili small bunch of people in various contexts and hold grudge for years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3l30qhEpHw Nice set of lyrics in this song which fits that perfectly.
Lili	Posted - Nov 15 2010 : 09:20:40 AM quote: Originally posted by Emil Hi Lili, By the time you read this you've had a good two weeks to forgive the poor painters :-) Lately I've been practicing converting emotions into bhakti (Lession http://www.aypsite.org/67.html) and it works perfect. Have a read through, For me it's one of the best things I've ever learned. Now, there is also a good lesson for you in what happened because generally, in business you shouldn't look for people that you know. You must look for people you can trust and often, those people are the large companies. Remember that "doing people a favour" and "feeling sorry for people" can sometimes come from the Ego and generally actions that are motivated by ego are not very pure and do not attract a pure response. Also, there is a fair amount of fairness in the universe which means very often businesses that don't make good profit, do so because they're not good at what they do!So if I was you, next time I would pick the company that I could trust. Also, I wouldn't go as far as hiring those people again to prove that I don't hate them! I think it's alright to feel "not very good" towards people who didn't deal with you correctly. You just shouldn't get stuck in it.Cheers,Emil Hi Emil, you're right I am much less worked up abt the painters due to forum support and passage of time . I know the painters situation may seem trivial, but the real issue is that I have difficulty forgiving a small bunch of people in various contexts and hold grudge for years. The painters thing is only one example. So this is the real reason for asking for feedback. Thanks for the tip will reread that lesson. Thanks&Cheers, Lili
Emil	Posted - Nov 14 2010 : 05:10:23 AM Hi Lili, By the time you read this you've had a good two weeks to forgive the poor painters :-) Lately I've been practicing converting emotions into bhakti (Lession http://www.aypsite.org/67.html) and it works perfect. Have a read through, For me it's one of the best things I've ever learned. Now, there is also a good lesson for you in what happened because generally, in business you shouldn't look for people that you know. You must look for people you can trust and often, those people are the large companies. Remember that "doing people a favour" and "feeling sorry for people" can sometimes come from the Ego and generally actions that are motivated by ego are not very pure and do not attract a pure response. Also, there is a fair amount of fairness in the universe which means very often businesses that don't make good profit, do so because they're not good at what they do! So if I was you, next time I would pick the company that I could trust. Also, I wouldn't go as far as hiring those people again to prove that I don't hate them! I think it's alright to feel "not very good" towards people who didn't deal with you correctly. You just shouldn't get stuck in it. Cheers, Emil
karl	Posted - Nov 13 2010 : 11:48:41 AM quote: Originally posted by Lili quote: Originally posted by karl Do whatever it takes if you truly want to change it must be 100%. The words 'easier said than done' mean you are not being assertive with yourself. Have no doubt that you can and will no matter what it takes. Tell yourself that infront of the mirror every morning and every evening. Change begins with you and the world will conspire to help. Step forward Lili and grasp it. Thanks Karl I think you're right. You seem to have a gift for motivational speaking I feel assertive like a wet noodle but I hope that by applying the advice as given here this may change as time goes by.... That's the spirit. Even a wet noodle has substance.
Lili	Posted - Nov 12 2010 : 5:04:12 PM quote: Originally posted by karl Do whatever it takes if you truly want to change it must be 100%. The words 'easier said than done' mean you are not being assertive with yourself. Have no doubt that you can and will no matter what it takes. Tell yourself that infront of the mirror every morning and every evening. Change begins with you and the world will conspire to help. Step forward Lili and grasp it. Thanks Karl I think you're right. You seem to have a gift for motivational speaking I feel assertive like a wet noodle but I hope that by applying the advice as given here this may change as time goes by....
American Baba	Posted - Nov 12 2010 : 2:47:42 PM Lilly, please allow me to jump in with an additional question for your consideration: How do you feel about the anger itself? In my experience, IF there is any strong emotion (about it)that can sometimes be a useful place to begin.