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Kundalini - AYP Practice-Related

Ajna and Crown

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Katrine	Posted - May 08 2006 : 04:43:24 AM Hi all Lately there is a change in how I perceive the energy working in my head. I can no longer say that the energy is working in the different chakras... It is as if the Ajna, the crown and the area in the back of my head is one big chakra. They are not separate at all.. . This reminds me of how I used to perceive the lower chakras as "distinct, separated areas" � while as now it is all one, glowing spine. The ecstatic conductivity is at times very intense in my neck too. It is obvious that there has been a major block there. Now that it is being cleared, it allows for even more energy upwards. Hence my problems with self-pacing lately. I am wondering....I perceive "lines" to go from the Ajna up my forehead to the fontanel on top of my head (you know, the area in a child that closes by the age of app. one year). Are these nerves? Or energy channels? (Both?) It is interesting to observe that I can now clearly perceive the activity of the Ajna to also be activity in the crown. Much like I started to perceive the root chakra and the Ajna as one chakra a while back. This activity in the crown is not bothersome or painful. I don�t focus on it, however. I don�t have to � things go on up there of its own accord. Sometimes during the day (especially now, just a few days prior to my period) however, I will have huge surges of energy going straight up to the crown. It is accompanied with an "ache" in the fork in the middle of the head and....not pressure, but more like "being right under a vacuumer"....a huge "drawing up". This experience always alerts me. No matter how much I feel like "leaving" through the hole � I instead do a "slight sambahvi" (Just like Jim told me to, in the post "Drunk with ecstacy"). This redirects at least part of the energy to the Ajna. It works. I am still here. May all your Nows be Here
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
axelschlotzhauer	Posted - Apr 11 2012 : 4:24:00 PM In the section of locked postings I found a reference to this string on crown chakra and ajna. Together with lessons there is a body of knowledge and practice not present in the active discussions on pressure in the third eye, kundalini experience and drilling a channel from ajna to the back of the head. Ideas? Axel I take the experience here and the third eye as the spinal nerve and the "white" hole in the head. Ideas
Jim and His Karma	Posted - May 22 2006 : 6:08:03 PM Directing one's attention to a spot opens that spot. This is the basis of self-healing and lots of other things. Attention paid during a period of spiritual work greatly amplifies that effect. And attention paid to a chakra during a period of spiritual work amplifies it further still. I mean ANY kind of attention. And attention at the crown is hard to resist, since the crown is the brass ring, the siren, and the surprise ending all rolled into one. AYP is about not going there....at least until the very late stages. Which, in my understanding (and experience) is about not working there, not visualizing there, not putting attention there, not witnessing there....just letting it be, and constantly reinforcing the pathway from mulha to ajna (and letting that "nourish" the crown indirectly, as Yogani assures us it will). I pretend the crown doesn't even exist. I could relate lots of anecdotal and theoretical rationale for this, but Yogani's already done so very well. If you put attention to crown, if you show interest in crown, it will seduce and entice you. I find AYP as-is seduction and enticement enough, and likely will for some years to come.
Shanti	Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:50:54 PM I agree David.. my mistake.. That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from ~~the crown~~ premature crown awakening Sorry. Also while I am in the correction mode.. let me clarify one more thing.. ".. I have first hand experience of this to some degree.. " Not of the wonderful experiences that happen with a smooth opening.. but first hand knowledge of the "excessive kundalini symptoms" and "emotional difficulty" with premature opening.
david_obsidian	Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:35:18 PM Shanti said: That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from the crown. The statement needs a little qualification. More accurately, he's trying to help us avoid premature crown awakening. See the lesson you referred to. It's much more nuanced than 'trying to keep us away from the crown'.
david_obsidian	Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:11:05 PM My understanding is that in the state of ultimate purification, the chakras fuse to become a mega-chakra, at which point muladar and sahasrar, and every chakra inbetween, become indistinguishable. Which is another way of saying that they shut up and let us live life. The megachakra -- would that be the Meg O'Chakra? I don't believe in 'ultimate purification', by the way. For any form, a higher form is possible. With the possible exception maybe, of my very own daddy.
Shanti	Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:10:20 PM Meg, the crown chakra opening prematurely causes a lot of emotional turmoil.. and is very uncomfortable. The point of AYP is to be gentle about the purification. That is why Yogani tries to keep us away from the crown. Look at these lessons, Yogani explains it very well... and I will tell you this, the things he says are all true.. I have first hand experience of this to some degree.. http://www.aypsite.org/199.html quote: Lesson#199: The problem is that, if our nervous system between the root and the crown is not purified enough, kundalini energy will begin tearing through everything to get to the crown. This is what produces so-called excessive kundalini symptoms, which can include a counterpart of emotional difficulty as well. http://www.aypsite.org/201.html
david_obsidian	Posted - May 21 2006 : 1:06:25 PM quote: Originally posted by meg Indeed, and you might consider applying for guru-ship yourself, as you have the qualifications: humility, grace, and a purified crown! All hail guru Obsidian! Thanks Meg. Humility I have in abundance, but I cannot claim a 'purified crown'. Seriously, if you start to see a lot of 'humility' from me, that might be the time to watch out and start running away. That might be an indication that I am getting up onto a trip. I'm trying to help the world de-mythologize enlightenment right now. If I reverse and start to cultivate the mythologization of it (as per the more conventional yoga tradition), that could be an indication that I have sold out to the dark side. quote: Originally posted by meg When is it safe to assume that an inactive crown suggests a higher level of awareness? Never. And it's never safe to assume that an active crown suggests a higher level of awareness either. Which is really my main point here. Perceived activity = (in good cases) purification. Something is throwing some trash out of your head. What more could you ask for? If part of you is begging to have a mark of 'higher awareness' (and that's probably true to some extent of almost all of us), that part of you is marked as trash also, for eventual dissolution.
alan	Posted - May 21 2006 : 12:43:00 PM I like that, megachakra. We are all megachakra. How about bindumegachakra?
Manipura	Posted - May 21 2006 : 11:51:49 AM quote: Originally posted by david_obsidian See, I can play guru-politics too when I want to! Indeed, and you might consider applying for guru-ship yourself, as you have the qualifications: humility, grace, and a purified crown! All hail guru Obsidian! As for the rest of us meatheads, what are we to make of our lack of crown activity? Does an inert crown indicate a higher state? Doubtful, in most cases. When is it safe to assume that an inactive crown suggests a higher level of awareness? Another question: Why the big deal about the crown, anyway? Is it b'c it houses the sahasrar, the opening of which is arrived at only after years of cleansing and devotion to one's guru? I ask this b'c it makes little sense to me that the crown should be singled out as the chakra extraordinaire, any more than the liver, kidney or heart should be hailed as the organ of choice. I have a lot of throat and ajna activity, which is a very cool thing for me, but I've not once experienced any activity at the root. What's my point, you ask? This: ANY chakra activity indicates purification, and the 'lower' chakras are not of lesser significance than the 'higher' ones. Shakti emerges from the root, divine love at the heart, divine grace at the throat, and so on; each as significant as the other. My understanding is that in the state of ultimate purification, the chakras fuse to become a mega-chakra, at which point muladar and sahasrar, and every chakra inbetween, become indistinguishable.
david_obsidian	Posted - May 21 2006 : 07:47:00 AM Oh, so Osho agrees with me about this? [OK then, let's see ... aha] A flawless and perfect Guru he was indeed. We are honored and priveleged to have had him amongst us in bodily form. See, I can play guru-politics too when I want to!
Manipura	Posted - May 21 2006 : 02:28:18 AM quote: Originally posted by david_obsidian According to my understanding, our chakras are not 'designed' to be drawing attention to themselves in normal function. No more than our livers, our kidneys, or our brains themselves! They are 'presenting' because of changes and transitions -- expansions, purifications. This is also my understanding of chakra states, as well as that of Osho, so it must be correct!
david_obsidian	Posted - May 20 2006 : 9:18:39 PM Weaver said: If you mean perceived level of activity, this is not quite in line with what I experience. I have had about the same level of pulsations in the crown for about 2 months, but they are still as noticeable as when they started. Nothing you've said contradicts what I said Weaver. It just indicates that your crown has not been in steady-state for the last two months. Two months is nothing! You could spend your whole life feeling your crown opening like that. Yogani said: Over time the crown sensations will be stronger in concert with overall purification in the nervous system. Yes. If te crown area is being 'purified' it will probably be felt. Maybe what I meant by 'steady state' is ambiguous and not the best phrase. Perhaps 'in normal function' would be a better phrase. According to my understanding, our chakras are not 'designed' to be drawing attention to themselves in normal function. No more than our livers, our kidneys, or our brains themselves! They are 'presenting' because of changes and transitions -- expansions, purifications. Just like growing pains in adolescence. So by 'steady state' I mean normal function, without purifications/transitions. I didn't mean 'outside the short-term'. There is no saying how long 'purification' will last. A lifetime maybe? In short: chakras presenting themselves would be purification, not purity. I hope that clears it up and we are 'on the same page' now. regards, -David
Katrine	Posted - May 20 2006 : 02:51:13 AM Thank you, Weaver! That was really summing things up for me. May all your Nows be Here
weaver	Posted - May 19 2006 : 10:41:08 PM Hi David and Katrine, Thank you for your posts on this. David wrote: quote: If your crown is in steady-state (hasn't significantly changed in level of activity for some time), you'll notice nothing there. If you mean perceived level of activity, this is not quite in line with what I experience. I have had about the same level of pulsations in the crown for about 2 months, but they are still as noticeable as when they started. However, if you mean an "actual" level of activity, beyond perception, it could be true. I have found a lot of consolation from the following, which is an addition to Lesson 230 in the printed version of Advanced Yoga Practices by Yogani, it is not included in the online lessons, therefore I post it for general interest (my underlining): "If there are some sensations in the crown, this is normal as we continue with our regular brow to root advanced yoga practices, because the crown is also being gradually opened in a controlled way. Over time the crown sensations will be stronger in concert with overall purification in the nervous system. If the energies do not become uncomfortable, we can just continue with our daily practices. It is not a danger to notice what is happening at the crown, as it does not constitute focused practice. There will be a time when we can go directly to the crown with nothing but complete absorption in ecstatic bliss being the outcome. This is how it is when the nervous system is adequately purified. So, all we do is let the crown come along naturally with our regular advanced yoga practices. If things get excessive, then we know it is time to apply self-pacing and back off a bit. With this approach the crown is not so much difficulty. It is just like any other kind of self-pacing situation we encounter in the nervous system as we proceed with our practices."
Katrine	Posted - May 19 2006 : 3:15:15 PM Great post, David - thanks for clarifying this issue You wrote: quote: So a sensation in the crown can mean it is 'awakening'. It doesn't mean that it is 'awakened'. A person with a more 'silent' crown may actually have a more developed system than a person with a crown that has become noisy. This is exactly how I have interpreted it. That my crown is NOT awakened - but noisy because the transition is going on. This is how I perceive ecstacy in all the chakras - simply a cleaning process; not a proof of "awakened chakra", but rather a sign of ongoing purification. May all your Nows be Here
alan	Posted - May 19 2006 : 2:45:01 PM Very nice observations David. Thank you. Peace, alan
david_obsidian	Posted - May 19 2006 : 2:07:23 PM I just got to this post now (been extra busy lately). Maybe I can throw some perspective on the whole crown issue. The following are, to an extent, my own theories and intuitions. First, we all have operative crown chakras -- we would be dead without them. Whenever we say a chakra is 'awakening' that means that the activity in it is currently noticeably increasing. 'Awakening' is really a relative term, not an absolute one. We subjectively accommodate to the steady-state and no longer notice it. If your crown is in steady-state (hasn't significantly changed in level of activity for some time), you'll notice nothing there. That's true no matter what stage of 'development' you are at. If Buddha's crown is in steady-state activity, he notices nothing there.... So a sensation in the crown can mean it is 'awakening'. It doesn't mean that it is 'awakened'. A person with a more 'silent' crown may actually have a more developed system than a person with a crown that has become noisy. (By silent here I just mean not 'presenting' or drawing attention to itself, not 'silent' as in 'inner silence'). In short: Steady-state hardly active = silent Steady-state moderately active = silent ... Steady-state highly active = silent In transition = noisy The warnings on 'crown awakening' as I understand them, are warnings against practices attempting to physically 'direct energy into the crown'. Apparently, people have had major problems stemming from such practices. I have no personal clue about these, but I believe these risks. I saw this as a warning against those kinds of practices. I didn't see them as a warning against the crown spontaneously awakening, or even against things which may kind of indirectly awaken your crown, if it is ready. If that is a non-AYP position, let me know, someone. Yogani? Any kind of anhanced activity I felt for a while in my crown was never the result of any attempt to 'move' energy into it. The process was a little different; a better way of looking at things (with more unity) would spontaneously arise, or would be stimulated by some other source (such as by a teacher like Nisagardatta). As I started to look at things that way, some crown 'activity' would follow. This was typically very peaceful for me. There was a great sense of completeness and deep rest. It was joyful, but not exciting. And it is in a good way, that I mean 'not exciting'.
Katrine	Posted - May 11 2006 : 03:08:56 AM Hi Yogani quote: Katrine, in case you did not read it between the lines of my last note, your experiences are very beautiful, and you are right on (cautions included - thank you, Jim). Your kindness and support are always visible between the lines, Yogani. No worries! quote: It is not always easy for highly driven yoginis and yogis (yes, you are one at the deepest level), but the payoff will be there. You know; I am so thankful to Life for being what it is. Even if it is not easy; it is a daily payoff to be able to move continually deeper into the mystery of Being. I simply know - in my heart - that I have nothing to worry about. I simply listen and move. Some issues take years; others resolve quickly. Today is a good day - my vision is clear. To morrow might be different; but when I am "muddeled", at least I know that this is a passing thing. As everything else in life. And - as you point out - at the deepest level I am unchangeable. quote: It just takes time and prudent pacing in practices and daily living. Yes. And thank God for AYP and Yogani for being such a great and easily available source of support in this venture! May all your Nows be Here
yogani	Posted - May 10 2006 : 10:42:41 AM Hi Katrine: It goes without saying that inner silence enables us to weather the vast energy movements that can happen in us on our path of purification and opening. With inner silence, we can just watch and know deep within ourselves that this is part of the process. Our witness never moves, does it? no matter how much ecstatic energy is moving. Nevermind that inner silence is a primary cause of such energy movments also. Stillness in action! This is why deep meditation is first in AYP, for both progress and protection. This is also why it is not a good idea to begin with "energy work" when starting out on our path. If all of this energy stuff is happening without some degree of the witness, a whole lot of catching up with inner silence will be necessary, working from a disadvantage. And that is assuming we even know how to cultivate inner silence. Quite a few have come to AYP with energy issues over the past few years, not knowing how to cultivate inner silence and the witness, or about the basics of managing kundalini excesses. Most have been helped. Katrine, in case you did not read it between the lines of my last note, your experiences are very beautiful, and you are right on (cautions included - thank you, Jim). It is not always easy for highly driven yoginis and yogis (yes, you are one at the deepest level), but the payoff will be there. It just takes time and prudent pacing in practices and daily living. So many here are doing so well, and I am very impressed. It is not only a few. It is all of you, managing your own purification and opening with a little help from the AYP writings and each other. Imagine where we all will be in a decade. Lots of sages running around, I bet. Lots of horizontal sharing, with more and more people around the world finding their path. I hope I live to see it. Bring on the butterflies! The guru is in you.
Katrine	Posted - May 10 2006 : 04:56:25 AM Hi Jim, Anthem and Alan Thanks for being supportive. Posting this Topic has taught me a lot - on many levels. I am not perfect - so, with future posts, most certainly there will be ambivalence. I am still not whole. There are still inner conflicts. They will shine through. It is good to know that I can come here and communicate. May all your Nows be Here
alan	Posted - May 09 2006 : 3:46:21 PM Yes, please continue to be gracious Katrine by sharing your journey with us! It is exciting and inspiring...signposts for each of our Here and Now
Anthem11	Posted - May 09 2006 : 3:15:03 PM Hi Jim, You're points in regards to the crown are well taken, but I don't believe we are doing people any long term good if we perpetuate fear about the crown either. It is inevitable that somewhere along the way in our practices, activity will take place at the crown, this has been the case for me off and on since day 1 of my kundalini becoming active, it simply happens by itself. I don't fear it, it just does its thing. I don't see where Katrine writes that she is deliberately trying to open her crown chakra. I see it as her reporting on activity that is taking place there, her curiosity about it and her reassurances that she is doing the correct things to avoid energy imbalances by not focussing on it. I personally think that it is a good learning experience for all of us to hear her accounts of the openings in her head and hope that she continues to be so generous about sharing her experiences. A
Jim and His Karma	Posted - May 09 2006 : 1:14:21 PM I just noticed this, posted by you in March: quote: I decided to include Samyama at the end of my practises. I think it will help my energy flow. I only use one of the prayers, though: Love. We're all on our own sadhanas, of course, and what's "right" for one person may not be for another. But I'd imagine that this samyama modification could drive things out of balance (samyama, done the AYP way, is superbly balancing, but it requires working on a wide range of terms that impact in a wide range of ways) and lead to a conviction of futility re: self-pacing controls. Just a thought, fwiw.
Jim and His Karma	Posted - May 09 2006 : 12:15:50 PM Katrine, My postings weren't speaking to you, but to curious onlookers (and all of us are curious here) who might choose to start moving in these directions. There is a very VERY fine line (perhaps no line at all) between intentional and automatic processes (per Yogani's cookie jar story). As for not being able to help it, you have more than once started discusssions asking for suggestions for slowing down. I've detected a certain amount of ambivalence...haven't been entirely sure you truly wanted to slow down. I may be wrong on that. And maybe you shouldn't slow down. Only you and your inner guru know for sure! But the rest of us need to not go near crown. Not think about it. Not subconsciously launch, on the basis of your reports, what might be taken for automatic processes. That's my concern. And someone had to play the part of the loyal opposition here, to make sure people understood the danger. If you are concerned and truly want to pull back, I've given my best advice already in a couple of threads with you. If I think of anything else, I'll chime in. I wish you the best!
Katrine	Posted - May 09 2006 : 11:38:46 AM One more thing: quote: Ask John Wilder. He'll tell you I just did. He did tell me. And not for the first time... May all your Nows be Here