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			$Prayer [/\]$

T O P I C R E V I E W
Anthem11	Posted - Jan 05 2006 : 11:02:41 PM Hi Yogani, I went looking for this today and couldn't find it easily and I thought this was such an excellent explanation of the evolution of the enlightenment process that I wanted to re-post it here. Besides, this section of the forum hasn't had a new post for a long time! "So we go from inner silence, to energy experiences born of the friction of neurological purification, to the flat witness, to energy becoming ecstatic conductivity, to the merging of ecstasy and inner silence and becoming ecstatic bliss, to the unity experience of outpouring divine love." Yogani
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
cosmic_troll	Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 01:52:41 AM quote: Originally posted by david_obsidian It is possible, and very healthy, to satirize and revere at the same time. Many of the older religions of the world did it routinely, before our spirituality became all heavy and serious. David, I like your sentiment here, and agree with it. I think Jesus would love the "Buddy Christ" from the movie Dogma. I know I do!
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 06 2006 : 11:08:31 AM If anyone was offended about my send-up of Babaji, let me offer you this: Parahamsa Yogananda and Babaji, having gone beyond duality, are well able to laugh at what I said -- and at me. It is possible, and very healthy, to satirize and revere at the same time. Many of the older religions of the world did it routinely, before our spirituality became all heavy and serious.
Jim and His Karma	Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 02:30:02 AM quote: Originally posted by Anthem11 it is easier to read people and understand their thoughts, feelings and motives Sorry, I'm late to this thread. I just wanted to comment on this (which was echoed by a couple of other posters). It's not really easier....it's just less hard. I know that sounds dumb, but let me explain. I drive an old cheap car. With the A/C on, it's incredibly laggy. I joke during the summer....if I want to engage "the turbodrive", I hit the air conditioning button (to turn it off), and I indeed have a surge of power. It's all relative! So what I'm saying is that the nice things that happen are not an acquiring of skills/powers/etc. It's just a dropping of your stress, anxiety, distraction, obliviousness, selfishness, and general vision-obscuring muck. Before you started practice, you mishandled people because you were grappling with ghosts, grasping at half the universe and recoiling from the other half, and basically doing everything you possibly could to bind and bury yourself. You muddied your own windows with every action. Unsurprisingly, you acted blearily. Things just go better when you clean off the mud faster than you fling it at yourself. Just like my car turns into a relative Ferrari when I turn off the A/C!
yogani99	Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 11:36:33 PM Elvis has left the building, but Yogani hasn't yet. Word has it that he changed his ID because the old one (database owner one) had so much internet file baggage stuck to it that it died. Is this indisputable evidence of reincarnation?
Etherfish	Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 8:35:27 PM Probably studied with immortal hair model.
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 3:48:35 PM Ether, maybe he isn't just in Elvisland, maybe he actually is Elvis. What do you think? Yogani actually is Elvis. The King faked his own death, spirited himself away to the Himalayas where he dedicated himself to learning the secrets of Yoga and disseminating them without restriction to the masses.
Etherfish	Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 3:26:12 PM How do we know he's even Yogani? Now he's registered as "Yogani99" and last year he was just "Yogani". I think someone else is answering our posts, and he's in Elvisland with Jimi Hendrix and other great people whom everyone thinks is dead but they're not. Whomever is his substitute is a genius, and doing a great job. heh heh
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 2:08:38 PM See. Classic self-mythologization. He gets to compare himself to the great and illustrious Rodney Dangerfield, while at the same time getting credit for being humble and even self-deprecating in that comparison. The classic cultivation-repudiation game. Nothing gets past me.
yogani99	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 2:28:27 PM Hi David: Hey, I've been sliced and diced plenty already. And I'm sure the best is yet to come. Rodney Dangerfield's got nothin' on me. The guru is in you. Go pick on him/her/it. And then just easily come back to the mantra. It is all purification...
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 2:13:36 PM P.S. Anthem, thanks for challenging me on what I said about Tolle. Keep up the good work. You exposed for me the fact that I was not giving him the benefit of any doubt. Now, on to this Yogani character.... (Just joking!)
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 1:58:59 PM quote: Originally posted by robertjames After cleaning the dust off my copy of The Power of Now'I find it intresting that the word "Meditation" is not mentioned once in the entire 3 pages of "Contents" covering 188 pages. Yes, 'The Power of Now' does not include a meditation instruction like mantra yoga. He does have instruction for a kind of meditation, sorta, though he does not call it that. This is probably the strength, and the limitation of 'The Power of Now' at the same time. I think for many people, Yogani's 'Deep meditation' would be a very good complementary work to 'The Power of Now' and vice-versa.
david_obsidian	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 09:29:44 AM Anthem, thanks for your response. Anthem said: Isn't his whole philosophy that we all already have it, not to look externally but to realize that it is within us here and now? Yes, so maybe I've been unfair. Maybe I am projecting what I see in so many spiritual teachers onto Tolle who may even stand out as not deserving it. Maybe I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt when I should. I have added caveats above to what I wrote about him. I think the valuable bit in what I said is that people who are heart-open won't be drawn to the 'Lone Hero' posture. An interesting spiritual hero to look at is St. Francis of Assisi. He's very heart-open, and there is not a touch of 'Lone Hero' about him. Regards, David
Etherfish	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 08:40:20 AM There is only one PY that I know about, Paramahansa Yogananda. My impression is that snake was speculating based upon how "far out" some of the things were that PY said compared to what we know today. The more likely reason for that is that he lived in the early 1900's, same as my grandfather. I remember my grandfather as communicating completely differently than everyone else, due to the time he grew up in. If you have seen movies about that era like "gangs of new york", or read any books about it, you see that it might have well been another planet they were from. And the people PY was speaking or writing to were just as different from us. Remember most of their life was lived before women and minorities being thought of as equals, before yoga had any credibility at all in the west, when most people thought paranormal phenomena was pure BS or from the devil, before computers and TV, before special effects in movies, before affordable mass plane flights, and a hundred more things. The beginning of the 1900's was when a lot of people believed nothing new could be invented, they already knew all knowledge, and egos ruled everything.
Guy_51	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 07:12:27 AM After cleaning the dust off my copy of The Power of Now'I find it intresting that the word "Meditation" is not mentioned once in the entire 3 pages of "Contents" covering 188 pages. Yap Yap Yap Any comments? We are one Guy
snake	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 03:50:09 AM lol sorry Guys .it's just my Brit sense of humour.I didnt mean he actually took LSD but that he seemed to have a vivid imagination in keeping with someone on Acid,I think David got my meaning. I have always loved PY as far as I have read and heard him and I didn mean him any disrespect but i heard that AOY was not all his work and it does draw people to yoga. I have had some amazing happenings after I prayed to PY and they were either coincidental or something else was working to bring them about,Im not certain
Victor	Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 02:41:42 AM I am confused. when you say PY are your referring to Paramahansa Yogananda or some other PY? I have never heard of Yogananda taking LSD and he certainly did not prior to writing Autobiography of a Yogi
Anthem11	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 10:15:27 PM So is it an established fact that PY took LSD or just speculation? Did he ever admit to taking drugs?
Anthem11	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 10:01:23 PM Hi David, I think you bring some great insight into the concept of "self-mythologization". I found that with Eckhart Tolle he told us very little of himself and my impression was that it came across to me as being reluctantly told. My feeling was that he did a good job in not making the book or its contents about him. Credibility is such an important issue in order to establish trust so that people feel that someone's knowledge is worth listening to. I think the little he told us about himself was in order to establish that trust and openness in the people who would read his work. I think Yogani has had to reveal a little too along these lines for the same credibility reasons. quote: I believe they become a little inflated from this role and stop speaking person-to-person in a totally honest, open and truthful way. They don't tend to say 'I don't know' or 'I'm wondering', because that would detract from the myth they are building around themselves. I don't know that he doesn't do this. The questions were chosen by him so I imagine he selected ones that he felt he could give good guidance on. I have never seen or heard him in person so not sure how he would handle questions he didn't know the answers to. quote: I believe he was helped significantly by a number of teachers and paths (including Zen) after his partial enlightenment experience. But there is very little credit given to these paths and teachers, in fact, they are downplayed. He doesn't say something like 'Some of my great teachers and buddies in zen and other traditions helped me to find more securely what their great masters enjoy' -- no, that wouldn't be Lone Hero -- instead he said something very Lone Hero like 'he realized that they were all looking for what he already had'. Isn't his whole philosophy that we all already have it, not to look externally but to realize that it is within us here and now? quote: Let me know what you think. If you think I've gotten it totally wrong about Tolle, don't spare me. I couldn't truly say one way or another, I just know what it did for me and that I really enjoyed the wisdom that was offered. cheers, Anthem
Victor	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 5:51:30 PM I never heard of Yogananda ever taking LSD. It was actually not discovered until Yogananda was 50 years old, nine years before his passing, and was not widely known about until a number of years later. Even if Yogananda had been taking some entheogen (there is no evidence that he had) it would not effect my respect for his teaching. A good example for that is Ram Dass who has taken quite a bit of LSD in his life and is one of the most loved and respected teachers of Yoga and Meditation of our time.
david_obsidian	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 5:43:27 PM Jeez, Chris, hold on a minute here, you aren't suggesting that those stories about Babaji aren't true are you?
snake	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 5:38:43 PM This thing about Babaji seems weird in that PY seemed so sincere in when I have heard him speak and read some of his lectures yet he seems to have been on LSD some of the time. chris
Richard	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 12:40:13 PM quote: Originally posted by david_obsidian [purple]. [size=1] I'll openly admit that maybe I'm just jealous. I'm OK with the fact that babaji can materialize castles and I can't -- but what really kills me is that if I wear my own hair longer than six inches, I get split ends. That's alright David If I grow mine longer than half an inch it falls out RICHARD
david_obsidian	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 11:46:05 AM Guy asked: Hi David: I love the sugar/sand metaphor,also, what the hell is a male hair model? I'm being very naughty. A male hair model is simply a male model valued largely for his hair. According to Parahamsa Yogananda, our nine-hundred-year-old Babaji presents in the body of a beautiful youth, whose long, lustrous hair is copper-colored. Babaji would surely be the envy of the elven city of Rivendell --- Legolas move over --- if Rivendell wasn't just made up by someone. I'll openly admit that maybe I'm just jealous. I'm OK with the fact that Babaji can materialize castles and I can't -- but what really kills me is that if I wear my own hair longer than six inches, I get split ends.
david_obsidian	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 11:32:37 AM Hi Anthem, I'd be happy to try to answer that, regarding the self-mythologization. I wouldn't have gotten the impression of charlatanry per se directly, so I'll leave that one to Guy. Let me emphasize firstly that I think 'The Power of Now' is a great book and a great service. I agree with everything you said about it. Let me emphasize secondly that I am saying that self-mythologization is 'par for the course' and probably quite unconscious. So I don't by any means single out Eckhart Tolle for it. In fact, if anything he stands out among famous spiritual teachers as being low in self-mythologization --- very low. Which is why, in a way, it might be particularly unfair in my post that self-mythologization is mentioned in connection with Eckhart Tolle. OK, let me explain what I mean by self-mythologization and how it seems to be extremely common among spiritual teachers: self-mythologization among spiritual teachers manifests in the quality of the role in which they inject themselves. This role is prepared for them by the myths of the past, by the great guru/saviour/messiah myths, maybe even by our 'archetypes', and by their tendencies. I believe they become a little inflated from this role and stop speaking person-to-person in a totally honest, open and truthful way. They don't tend to say 'I don't know' or 'I'm wondering', because that would detract from the myth they are building around themselves. They mythologize their own progress and path. They often mythologize it in a way that makes it look as if their own particular progress was independent, and that it was not helped by other people and things. Or, to the extent that they were helped by others, the role of the others is subsidiary, and lower-status than their own. They assume a posture as if they are an independent (or final) point of light, an isolated genius, a new Source. They are the Lone Hero. Has this happened with Tolle? I think a little, yes. [ Not sure I am being fair to Tolle here -- haven't given him benefit of doubt ] I alluded to it in an earlier post. I believe he was helped significantly by a number of teachers and paths (including Zen) after his partial enlightenment experience. But there is very little credit given to these paths and teachers, in fact, they are downplayed. He doesn't say something like 'Some of my great teachers and buddies in zen and other traditions helped me to find more securely what their great masters enjoy' -- no, that wouldn't be Lone Hero -- instead he said something very Lone Hero like 'he realized that they were all looking for what he already had'. This thing may play in with your own observation that his heart chakra is not 'fully opened'. A person whose heart chakra is fully opened is not inclined to go for Lone Hero and is much less susceptible to falling into an inflated role; they will tend to speak person to person in a totally honest way, which manifests their vulnerability and interdependence. Any role activity that draws you out of that relationship of interdependence, is a role that draws you only because 'the heart' is partially lost or not properly grown. Lone Hero only arises when 'the heart' is not fully developed and healthy. I could be wrong about Tolle in particular (though I think then that the 'wise ant' could find something useful in what I said about spiritual teachers as a group). Regarding Tolle in particular, this is just a set of impressions, possibly even just a forumite shooting his mouth off unfairly, not the result of a deep study. But my own gut feeling is that there is indeed some truth in it. Let me know what you think. If you think I've gotten it totally wrong about Tolle, don't spare me. Best regards, -David
Guy_51	Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 08:51:50 AM Hi David: I love the sugar/sand metaphor,also, what the hell is a male hair model? Hi Riptiz: Where can one obtain a copy of Guruji's Divine Sound? Guy